Nearly One Million Children in U.S. Potentially Misdiagnosed With ADHD, Study Finds

[Recursion]

Source: Science Daily

Nearly 1 million children in the United States are potentially misdiagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder simply because they are the youngest -- and most immature -- in their kindergarten class, according to new research by a Michigan State University economist.

These children are significantly more likely than their older classmates to be prescribed behavior-modifying stimulants such as Ritalin, said Todd Elder, whose study will appear in a forthcoming issue of the Journal of Health Economics.

Such inappropriate treatment is particularly worrisome because of the unknown impacts of long-term stimulant use on children's health, Elder said. It also wastes an estimated $320 million-$500 million a year on unnecessary medication -- some $80 million-$90 million of it paid by Medicaid, he said.

Elder said the "smoking gun" of the study is that ADHD diagnoses depend on a child's age relative to classmates and the teacher's perceptions of whether the child has symptoms.

Read more: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100817103342.htm?sms_ss=reddit

---

So, we've put a million kids on amphetamines for no reason...

[Sherman A1]

1. But, Pharma is making money

so it's all good..........:sarcasm:

[TexanRudeBoy]

41. They'll be raking it in even more

with Obamacare. Or did you think those secret meeting he held with Pharma execs (funny, yet another thing Obama vehemently ripped Bush for that he's doing...) were to get better drug prices for Grandma?

If you did I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.....

[izquierdista]

2. A drug policy that knows no reason

When these kids get to their 20s and start upping their dose of crank, THEN it will be illegal.

[CBGLuthier]

3. Naaahhh, Really? No Shit? Who Would have Thunk It?

I am surprised. Shocked. Amazed. Confounded. Falling over in disbelief.

[mike r]

4. Years, if not decades, of profits for drug pushers

[ThomCat]

5. Is anyone surprised?

It seemed like for a while you couldn't talk to any mom of young kids without hearing that every other child was being diagnosed, often against the will of the parents.

Schools were forcing medication upon kids if they were even the least bit energetic or emotional. It was the method of choice to turn kids into zombies, and it was not only legal, it was professional in style for them to do so.

:(

How many of us were complaining years ago that kids were being over-medicated, and were being misdiagnosed as a substitute for simply dealing with them as kids. How often did we predict that this was going to come back and bite us all on the ass when it found out that those kids never really had ADHD after all?

Here it is.

[Egnever]

7. hogwash

Schools cannot force meds upon kids, that's just silly. Teachers and other educators cannot even recommend meds, all they can do is report behavior and suggest to a parent for a child to be looked at by a doctor. Parents have to seek out testing to get their kids diagnosed, and even if given the diagnosis they can refuse meds. Poor parenting is definitely partly to blame for so many kids being on these drugs without need. Parents look at their kid's behavior and want an easy fix because parenting them is just too much work. Doctors are way too willing to prescribe meds to kids. It's a big mess, but I tell you as a parent I'd try a thousand things with my kids before I give them some med to change their behavior, regardless of what some doctor recommends. Meds would be a last resort for behavior modification.

[Joe Bacon]

16. Wrong, they do

Two of my nephews were "diagnosed" by teachers and drugged. Both turned into literal zombies...

[ThomCat]

20. One study I saw showed that children are most often diagnosed

at the request of teachers, rather than because of any actual testing or formal diagnosis. That's all it takes is a request from a teacher, and the school would demand a diagnosis.

Yet the same study surveyed teachers about their formal knowledge of ADHD and knowledge of the effects of the drugs the kids take for ADHD. The teachers scored abysmally low for actual knowledge.

So kids are being diagnosed primarily at the request of teachers who even know what really constitutes ADHD vs normal behavior, or what they will be doing to these kids by asking to put them on mind-altering meds.

How scary is that? :(

[HuckleB]

21. Can you link us to this study?

[ThomCat]

23. It was a while ago,

but, sure, I'll see if I can find it again. Give me a big to search for it.

Edit to add:

http://www.ldonline.org/article/ADHD_Teacher_Knowledge_of_Stimulant_Medication_and_ADHD
This is the original one I remember reading.

I just found one other doing a quick search.

http://www.ncrhp.uic.edu/copcprojects/2005/adhd.pdf

[Egnever]

44. Your links show nothing to further your arguement

Your first link states that teachers recommend assessments, they do not recommend drugs. Assessments are done by doctors. Your second link is bunk, as it consisted of a survey of 26 rural teachers and their knowledge of ADHD. Nothing was in their about them diagnosing ADHD and/or recommending drugs be given to children and/or the school requiring it.

[HuckleB]

50. +1

That is the type of "study" I expected to be offered.

Ugh.

[ThomCat]

19. You haven't been paying attention.

http://www.ritalindeath.com/New-Federal-Law.htm

The problem of schools forcing parents to medicate their kids against their will was so common that a law was passed against it. 2005

Unfortunately, it still happens. It's just harder for schools to get away with now.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175913,00.html

This is a fox news article about the law, unfortunately, but it mentions a critical piece of information. That schools were prohibiting kids from coming back to class until they were on medication. That meant they were effectively expelled from school, permanently, until the parents gave in to the school's demands and put their kids on unnecessary medications. That's a hell of a lot of pressure for parents to be under.

Schools have taken parents to court to force the parents to medicate their kids. And won.

Schools have threatened to report parents to Child Protective Services or whatever the local equivalent organization is for child abuse if they don't agree that their kids have ADHD and start them on medication.

Parents were put on lists of Child Abusers because they wouldn't agree to medicate their kids. Their kids were taken away from them, and they had to fight to get their kids back, they had to prove they were not abusing their kids, and prove they were fit parents because the school insisted that they were not providing necessary medical care by medicating their kids with ADHD meds.

Schools can't prescribe medication, but they can bring a lot of institutional pressure to bear against kids and families. And they have. Often. Resulting in over a million kids on ADHD meds who shouldn't be.

Here is concrete example of a school issuing a letting to a family to force them to medicate their child against their will.

http://stonesouptoronto.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/public-school-officials-try-to-force-wary-parent-into-medicating-child-with-adhd/

Here is an actual letter from a school saying that THEY, not a doctor, diagnosed a kid with ADHD, and that if the parents didn't agree with the diagnosis and start medicating the kid it would be their DUTY to report the family to the Child Aid Society. The family does not agree that their child has ADHD. There is no actual diagnosis by any doctor. Just the school's judgment.

There are a lot of examples out there. Some have even been discussed here over the years.

[Lochloosa]

26. Bullshit.

My wife moved from Maryland to Florida because the schools refused to let her eight year old son in the school unless he was drugged.

They thought he had been taking Ritalin for over a year. When they found out he was off his meds he was banned unless they were allowed to dose him.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

6. What Elder is describing isn't even a diagnosis

A teacher can think whatever the hell she wants, but if a child doesn't have a neurological deficit, she can't just wish one into existence.

ADHD can only be diagnosed by a doctor. I had a doctor look me over before starting me on Ritalin, and that's the way it should be. Observations from family and friends might be helpful, but they cannot serve as a final diagnosis.

[Recursion]

9. Umm... it's a study of diagnosed children

And the younger elements of the cohort are shown to be overrepresented.

You're acting like an educator's referral to a mental health provider won't influence that provider's decisions and diagnosis.

[derby378]

11. That's the problem...

A teacher's referral can skew the eventual diagnosis if the doctor isn't careful. That's why there is a strong need for an objective, clinical test for ADHD that goes beyond DSM-IV symptom matching. There is some progress being made (including a possible genetic marker), but more needs to be done.

[shrike]

36. Unfortunately, this reinforces the "ADHD isn't real" crowd

I have ADHD, my niece and nephew have it, my father had it. It IS real.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's been overdiagnosed. Remember when Prozac was being handed out like candy? Doctors were prescribing it for weight loss, fer chrissake, a psychotropic drug that shouldn't be fooled with. Bipolar is probably another example: a psychiatrist once told me that bipolar disorder is rare enough that there are probably plenty of people out there taking lithium that should be.

[HuckleB]

52. I've suspected that it's overdiagnosed for years.

That doesn't mean that the majority of diagnoses are not real. Nor does it mean that some people with ADHD are not diagnosed. Nor does it mean that medication is evil and does not help.

It's bizarre to see so many at DU pretend that the brain is not biological.

[happyslug]

30. We are reading someone view on his paper NOT what he wrote

The Actual Study is at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V8K-50B5PF5-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F17%2F2010&_alid=1434547497&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5873&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=1&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=04562b5a05b03fef47c32a4d20e3eb65

Which Charges a fee to obtain a copy, but the abstract goes as follows:

"This paper presents evidence that diagnoses of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are driven largely by subjective comparisons across children in the same grade in school. Roughly 8.4 percent of children born in the month prior to their state's cutoff date for kindergarten eligibility – who typically become the youngest and most developmentally immature children within a grade – are diagnosed with ADHD, compared to 5.1 percent of children born in the month immediately afterward. A child's birth date relative to the eligibility cutoff also strongly influences teachers’ assessments of whether the child exhibits ADHD symptoms but is only weakly associated with similarly measured parental assessments, suggesting that many diagnoses may be driven by teachers’ perceptions of poor behavior among the youngest children in a classroom. These perceptions have long-lasting consequences: the youngest children in fifth and eighth grades are nearly twice as likely as their older classmates to regularly use stimulants prescribed to treat ADHD."

[freebrew]

60. Not even a doctor...

it takes a psychiatrist armed with an EEG to make a correct diagnosis. MDs cannot and are not trained to recognize the disorder.

This(teachers recommending drugs) happens here all of the time. Parents get the meds unless the parents have already been in trouble.

Then, not at 21, but 7th grade, no more meds. Talk about cold-turkey, and for 7th graders no less.

Too many kids are on these meds that just need something to do after school.

[moc]

105. The problem is you are assuming that doctors know how to diagnose ADHD.

Most primary care physicians (in this case, pediatricians and family practice physicians, the ones getting these referrals) don't have sufficient training to diagnose and treat ADHD effectively. My husband is a clinician in private practice who specializes in the treatment of children and adolescents, and you have no idea how often he sees misdiagnosis of ADHD. An accurate diagnosis requires a comprehensive assessment by a qualified behavioral health specialist, such as a psychiatrist, a clinical psychologist, or a neuropsychologist, for example. The effective treatment of ADHD involves not only the use of medication but medication in combination with therapy, usually cognitive behavior therapy. Identifying the right medication and dosage is tricky because not all children respond to the same medications in the same way. Primary care physicians are not only less experienced with the diagnosis, they are not up-to-date on the latest knowledge of psychotropic medication. They are also limited in the dosages they can prescribe so may not even be able to prescribe a therapeutic dosage if they are successful in prescribing the right med for a particular child.

This doesn't even consider the primary care physicians who prescribe psychotropic meds without any evaluation whatsoever. It happens more than you'd care to believe.

[Overseas]

8. K&R! //nt

[ananda]

10. There is never a good reason to put anyone on amphetamines.

nt

[Recursion]

12. I don't know

I have friends with very severe ADHD and Adderall makes them able to concentrate on something for longer than 10 seconds. That seems like a good use of them.

[derby378]

13. FTR, Ritalin is not an amphetamine

It's very close to the amphetamines, but not quite one. Ritalin is more similar to cocaine than amphetamines in its effect on the central nervous system, but with less potential for addiction.

[Recursion]

17. No, but Adderall is

Which was what I was thinking of when I put "amphetamines" in the OP.

[HuckleB]

18. Baloney.

[pattmarty]

56. Yep. "Speed kills". You only have to look as far as the "Meth" epidemic.

[Celebration]

14. a big problem with schools

Is that they now teach in kindergarten what we used to learn in first grade. There is a push to learn letters, reading, etc. earlier than in decades past. Some children just aren't developmentally ready for it. Some private schools here suggest "holding back" a lot of boys. It's kind of ridiculous. Now there are seven year olds just entering first grade. The whole problem could be averted if first grade was for five and six year olds but they they learned what they now learn in kindergarten.

In the private schools here, there is no stigma to holding back kids. But, in the public schools there is, and it is not generally recommended. That can be a problem.

Having kids learn at their own particular development stage can do a lot toward fewer diagnoses of ADHD, although it won't eliminate it.

I have a grandkid who exhibits behavior that could be labeled ADHD...........by an MD, a parent, or a teacher. But they are symptoms that come about as a result of frustration--mostly situations that he perceives to be chaotic, for one reason or another. A child who is pretty much constantly frustrated could pretty much constantly exhibit ADHD type symptoms. Given a different, less frustrating environment, they could be normal.

That doesn't mean that medication is not sometimes appropriate. It means that school is just too frustrating for some kids, leading to ADHD type behavior.

[zipplewrath]

22. Student driven cirriculums

You're sort of advocating student driven cirriculums, and I don't particularly disagree. The amount of "home schooling" is growing, and I suspect there is some under current here of the need/desire for student driven teaching. So much of our school system is structured around social "needs" and the education gets forced into that model. Kids are being taught letters and numbers at ever younger ages because many of us already knew that stuff pre-1st grade. We knew that because we had been taught, informally, by our families. Cramming that into a structured environment for children who are barely ready for the structured environment is a mistake. Kindergarden was intended in the day as merely an exercise in social training. All the social rules of school were being taught. As the rise of day care came along, and the various "montessori" methods became popular, people expected children to have knowledge of letters and numbers at practically a 1st grade level. Fine, if it can be accomplished, but just shifting 1st grade to kindergarden pushes kids into educational structures for which they are unprepared.

Kids learn different things at different rates and as we shift education down the age range, that becomes vastly more true. We need to lose the connection between "age" and "grade" and merely teach what the kid is ready for, and needs.

[Recursion]

27. Montessori for all? NT

[HuckleB]

24. Yup.

There is no valid brain development research that indicates we need to be pushing such "knowledge" on kids at that age. Homework is now pushed on kids in early grades, causing anxiety that is wholly unnecessary. Further, it kills time needed for unstructured play, or at least simple physical activity or responsibilities. We really need to take a look at this trend.

[ensho]

39. I have never believed in homework

I had some homework, not a lot

told my kids teachers I didn't believe in homework. and they didn't do any.

If kids can't learn what they need to know while in school, then something is wrong.

I don't mean big projects of whatever kind. that's an OK homework. but daily or almost daily homework is not fair.

[HuckleB]

45. I agree for the early grades.

But I think homework is very helpful for subjects like math and foreign languages.

[LeFleur1]

25. Kids Exhibiting Behavior Problems.

There are children sent to school who have had no discipline in their young lives at all. They are disruptive, especially in large class situations, they know not how to follow rules, are uncooperative and exhibit the will to control, and be the center of their environmnet. They take up too much of the teacher's time within a large group, and they inhibit the learning of other students. That does not mean they have ADHD. Back in the day the teacher might call the parent in, explain the problems and they could work out a plan that would be to the benefit of the child in the future. Today, often the teacher would be threatened with a law suit for 'picking' on their poor spoiled child.
It's possible that schools have overstepped their duties by encouraging that such a child be medicated. That is a shame of huge proportions. What the child so often needs is that the parents go to parenting classes and learn how to raise a productive child.
Every child deserves the best of both worlds, that would be in world of parenting and the world of education.
I have witnessed many children who needed parental guidance, not medication.

[HuckleB]

46. How do you know what they needed?

Did you follow the family around 24-hours a day for their entire lives?

[wickerwoman]

94. Watch a few episodes of Supernanny

There are tons of families where the parents are clueless, work too much to afford stuff they don't need, don't know how to discipline and/or constantly undermine each other.

One person who knows how to deal with kids comes in for an hour or two and suddenly all the "unmanageable" kid behavior disappears.

People aren't born with the instinct to be great parents. Unless you happen to have had them, or have had a chance to observe them and practice, chances are that you won't be able to handle small children well. Many, many people don't. It's an exponential problem and the impact of it is absolutely felt in primary schools across the country.

[NashVegas]

69. The Denial Is Amazing

And it's going to continue until we can have an honest conversation in this country about what constitutes a secure home and good family, and putting our childrens' and our country's needs ahead of our freaking libidos and other sources & types of gratification.

[slackmaster]

15. WWGPS?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gLfeaVZEwNo/S0lixMnUnyI/AAAAAAAAGRs/3n-O1zkawOQ/s320/images+gomer+pyle.jpg

[d_r]

28. academic redshirting

There has been a sizable uptick, especially among middle class families, in holding their children out for a year to start kindergarten when they are a year older. This is especially true when they have "late birthdays" near the state deadlines. There has been pretty good data that shows that this doesn't really benefit children socially or academically. But what we are seeing is that he average age of kindergartners has gone up; with this, the youngest children are even more young. And it is increasingly rare for children to arrive at kindergarten without some pre-K experience (in a wide variety of quality). And the demands on kindergartners have increasingly become developmentally inappropriate, with expectations that look more like what had been first grade in terms of reading, etc. Kindergartners are increasingly expected to sit at desks, do worksheets, not nap, have full days, etc. versus more developmentally appropriate active learning. So it makes some sense that the youngest kindergartners are having a harder time.

And yes, when a teacher talks to the IEP meeting and provides their observations, it can have a pretty big impact on the diagnosis.

[WCIL]

31. Perhaps we just had a wonderful doctor

When my daughter was in 3rd grade the teacher suggested that she might have ADD and that we should look into it. We made an appointment, and he gave us evaluations to be filled out by us and the teacher. He included a postage paid envelopes so that we mailed them directly to him - we didn't know what the teacher wrote, and she didn't see ours. He would not have diagnosed ADD if our daughter did not exhibit signs both at school AND at home. It would have been impossible for the teacher to "diagnose" ADD and demand medication.

[HuckleB]

49. That's the basic process.

I work in a clinic with eight pediatricians, and that's the bare minimum of the symptom exploration. No one doing their job is going to diagnose a kid who doesn't have symptoms in all environments.

[AnneD]

101. I work as a School Nurse and have done...

class room observations. I have seen poor kids that DID need meds and not get them and kids that were medicated into zombie-hood. It is misdiagnosed in girls and by parents and teachers wanting a quick fix to something that can be nothing more than a disclipine or maturity problem. There is no one size fits all or a magic bullet.

What most would consider ADD or ADHD runs in my family. Mom just thought we were active kids and made sure we were busy-and we did focus better afterward. We all had behavior expectations. Funny how we all self medicate in some form or fashion (a cup of coffee being the drug of choice in our house) when we were old enough to.

One of my high school ADHD students once described it best: it is like your mind is an engine with the throttle stuck in the open position. Your thoughts keep racing, unfocused. The meds help you adjust the throttle. Hyperactivity is not a bad thing-it built our country. It just needs to be channeled. Put the ADD kids in the drum corps, give them 2 seats in the class room and let them sit in one or the other as long as they sit in one, let them run errands, put them in track.

We are so focused on tests and academic that we have forgotten that some kids learn by doing with their hand and we have made it a crime. I have had many a kid that forgot to take his meds in my office (to give the teacher a break) and have kept them busy teaching them practical things (they always seemed to slow down a bit for art). Guess I just have a soft spot in my heart for ADD and ADHD kids. They are not bad, just busy.

Oh, and all of us grew up to be successful in our own way: one nurse, one horse trainer, one farmer and one model/actress. Go figure.

[happyslug]

32. Agreed with the abstract on the actual paper this article is based on

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V8K-50B5PF5-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F17%2F2010&_alid=1434547497&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5873&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=1&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=04562b5a05b03fef47c32a4d20e3eb65

"This paper presents evidence that diagnoses of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are driven largely by subjective comparisons across children in the same grade in school. Roughly 8.4 percent of children born in the month prior to their state's cutoff date for kindergarten eligibility – who typically become the youngest and most developmentally immature children within a grade – are diagnosed with ADHD, compared to 5.1 percent of children born in the month immediately afterward. A child's birth date relative to the eligibility cutoff also strongly influences teachers’ assessments of whether the child exhibits ADHD symptoms but is only weakly associated with similarly measured parental assessments, suggesting that many diagnoses may be driven by teachers’ perceptions of poor behavior among the youngest children in a classroom. These perceptions have long-lasting consequences: the youngest children in fifth and eighth grades are nearly twice as likely as their older classmates to regularly use stimulants prescribed to treat ADHD."

Yes, I am to cheap to pay $31.50 to read the whole study and. given once I paid for it, I can NOT publish it (i.e. I can NOT just cut and paste it on DU) not worth $31.50. On the other hand the abstract, which is free, is more along your line of your thread then the article based on that study.

[AngryAmish]

51. I support redshirting, especially for boys

Just not as mature as girls at that age.

That said, I went to kindergarten with a very late birthday. I was the smallest kid in my class until high school - when I finally outgrew some of the smaller girls. I would have benefitted, especially since my folks did not send me to preschool since they could not afford it.

Outcome-wise I think I did ok - college and professional degree, et al. It would have been easier not to be so small.

[HuckleB]

53. We shouldn't need to redshirt.

We should bring kindergarten back to its original purpose.

[AngryAmish]

54. To create a proper German educated class?

[HuckleB]

64. Yeah, let's all do the red herring.

And get jiggy wit it.

[d_r]

58. I think it depends on the kid

And on the birthdate. I think it is one thing when the child is just a few days or so past the birthdate cut off. I've known some parents when the child was six months or more, and I don't think it is necessary at all. One kid will be able to drive when he is a freshmen in high school - some parents are doing it so their kid will be the smartest/biggest, not so they won't be the smallest.

I'm a little worried about my daughter in a couple of years. She is smart as a whip. Has a first week in Sept. birthday (Sept. 1 is cut off here) and is very, very small for her age anyway. Like the bottom percentile (she was 4 lbs when born, and at almost 3 she weighs 21 lbs.). Small. But so smart. We've signed her up to begin pre-K at the school our son goes next year, but she will be still be three when the school year starts next August. But I don't want her to wait another year either, she is so there in terms of language, etc. It is a hard call, there are a lots of variables and all kids are so different.

[AngryAmish]

My tot is a little older than yours

Early Feb. She will be three next year and is definately ready. Knows all her letters and numbers. Memorized all her stories. Plays well with other kids. She is on the small side, but with a wee father like me she can't help it. Bottom 10% in height and weight but not as small as your tot. And finally potty trained -almost. Been 2 days since an accident!

Anyway, next year she is going. No doubts in our mind - especially when you see other kids her age.

Good luck with your decision. I'm sure you will do the right thing.

[d_r]

91. thanks

reliability in the potting training is tough. Two days seems great to me!!!

They are just all so different, there really is no one size fits all. They are who they are.

[moc]

106. I was really surprised to discover how many parents of kids in my son's class had held their kid

back. My son has a late birthday (July 29 with a Sept 1 cut off for kindergarten). I considered holding him back, so I put him in private K, opting to wait until spring of his K year to decide whether I'd have him go onto 1st or have him repeat K in the public school. He went on with his cohort.

However, recently, I discovered may of his peers have July and August birthdays and are actually a year older than my son. They were held back, but he wasn't. I think it creates more issues than parents may realize, including for other children. For example, my son is a little behind in his reading skills (not terribly, but just a little). But, when he's comparing his skills to peers who are almost a year older, it results in him evaluating himself more negatively. The same thing has come up with skills in sports - where he's less skilled than his peers who are actually a full year older. I never realized so many of them were a year older.

In my experience, these individual differences in these early academic skills pretty much wash out by 4th grade, but in the meantime, I have to be concerned that my son doesn't develop a negative academic self image due to all the older kids in his class.

[harun]

29. I don't think we needed a study to know this.

[HuckleB]

48. Yes, we do, and we need more studies on this part of the equation.

No single study is definitive, and that's why the study indicates that it is not definitive.

[kickysnana]

33. Because there is no money to hire enough staff to deal

with troubled children and parents are all working two jobs so it is so much easier to blame the child and give them a medication lobotomy. I imagine that the ADHD medicines are toxic to kids who really don't need them. What a sad sorry country we live in.

[another saigon]

42. that was not my son's case at all.

But I am sure your scenario is a huge part of the problem. I am a stay at home mom who was very concerned when my then 5 yr old was "diagnosed" as having ADHD from the psychology dept. at a state university (at the suggestion of his kindergarten teacher). Their recommendation was three different medications. Aderal for the ADHD, a heart medication to control his heart rate, and a sleep aid.

Needless to say I was horrified at the thought of drugging my beautiful, handful of a little boy. So I researched and read, read, read up on medicating children and my husband and I chose alternative therapy with no drugs. Turns out that he calmed down and learned impulse control by about age 8. His first and second grade teachers were wonderful and assured us he was not an ADHD child.

I am so very grateful we did not listen to the "experts". He is thirteen now and one of the most laid back dudes in his class!

[Doctor_J]

34. With the control that Pharma has over the government,

there is probably a lot of over-prescription.

[Pavulon]

99. Ritalin is piss cheap. Like 10 a month with no insurance.

not a profitable scam.

[L0oniX]

35. It's all witches brew and monkey puss ...fuckin doctors are nothing but legal drug pushers.

Most of the time the crap they push on you, they hold stock in the company that makes it or they get kick backs.

[HuckleB]

47. Complete hogwash!

What a ridiculous post.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

57. Pharma Pays Drs MILLIONS to Illegally Precribe "Off Label" Dope

It may not all be hokum -- no one here is anti-medicine or anti-science, so don't even start that nonsense -- but a large portion of the Pharma Industry is based on total (and regularly deadly) bullshit.

http://nwhn.org/unapproved-drugs-and-unproven-label-prescriptions

"
March/April 2009

By Rachel Walden

Unapproved Drugs

Last November, a pair of Associated Press (AP) reporters conducted an investigation which found that Medicaid paid nearly $200 million from 2004--2007 on more than 100 unapproved drugs <1> which never went through the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) review and approval process. The drugs entered the market prior to 1962, when the FDA began requiring safety and effectiveness reviews for new drugs. Many manufacturers consider the drugs, estimated to account for around 2% of prescriptions annually, to be “grandfathered” in and not to need further review.
...
In addition to the problem of unapproved drugs, many drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose are prescribed for other purposes for which they have not been approved and which may not have been thoroughly studied. This practice is called "off-label" use, and is estimated to account for about 20% of prescriptions. While the FDA does not regulate off-label use — leaving it up to providers’ clinical judgment to prescribe medicines appropriately — it does prohibit pharmaceutical companies from marketing drugs for unapproved purposes such as off-label use.

In a study published in Pharmacotherapy, researchers identified 25 drugs that are commonly prescribed off-label with inadequate supporting evidence, particularly antidepressants, antipsychotics, and some sedatives.

[HuckleB]

62. Prove that pharma pays docs to prescribe medication.

Have you actually read the piece you offered, btw?

[L0oniX]

95. Prove it doesn't! Pharmacy shill much?

[Wednesdays]

104. Oy! Proving a negative.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

97. Illegal Dr Pay For Off Label Prescriptions Has Been Proven Over and Over Again

You have NO CLUE what you are talking about, Bunky.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/340/apr29_3/c2380

AstraZeneca pays $520m fine for off label marketing

AstraZeneca agreed to pay a $520m (£340m; {euro}391m) fine to settle allegations it had marketed the antipsychotic drug quetiapine fumarate (Seroquel) for unapproved off label uses, the US Department of Justice announced on 27 April.

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/pfizer-paid-for-doc-8217s-helicopter-in-off-label-geodon-push-suit-claims/2970
Pfizer paid a doctor $4,000 a day to promote the antipsychotic Geodon and expensed his use of a private helicopter to get to off-label speaking events, according a whistleblower lawsuit that was part of the $2.3 billion Bextra settlement.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aHXOSlLoUMbM

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62U4UM20100331

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a4yV1nYxCGoA
Pfizer Broke the Law by Promoting Drugs for Unapproved Uses
By David Evans - November 9, 2009 00:01 EST

New York-based Pfizer agreed to pay $430 million in criminal fines and civil penalties, and the company’s lawyers assured Loucks and three other prosecutors that Pfizer and its units would stop promoting drugs for unauthorized purposes.

What Loucks, who’s now acting U.S. attorney in Boston, didn’t know until years later was that Pfizer managers were breaking that pledge not to practice so-called off-label marketing even before the ink was dry on their plea.

On the morning of Sept. 2, 2009, another Pfizer unit, Pharmacia & Upjohn, agreed to plead guilty to the same crime. This time, Pfizer executives had been instructing more than 100 salespeople to promote Bextra, a drug approved only for the relief of arthritis and menstrual discomfort, for treatment of acute pains of all kinds.

[Zephie]

37. My husband was one of these children

To this day he's convinced that he's "broken" because of it. I've never believed in ADHD. When I was little many of the organizations I was in (Girl Scouts being most prominent) attempted to get my mother to get me diagnosed, but I was lucky enough to have a new age "earth momma" who told them it was a bunch of bullcrap and refused to do it.

Edited to include: I was home schooled so I avoided the teacher requirement of being medicated.

[ensho]

38. its a kind of child abuse that puts money in the pharma Barons pockets

nt

[FirstLight]

40. I considered myself a natual medicine mommy

but my sons issues were not easily handled, and I still have more diagnosis and counseling sessions to go before I know for sure what the real issues are... He was abused in the womb (because i was) he was born with a form of PTSD, he has a repetition problem in communication not a stutter but like the entire sentence or thought gets stuck in a loop, and mental health may have been an issue in my ex's family.

for now, he is on something for almost a year - I can't explain how it has helped in school (his handwriting looked like it was from a different kid! illegible before and now beautiful), socially he's even enjoyed team sports for the first time

so while i hate the drug, it is working for his benefit

and i will continue to work on this with him and hope to get him off it as soon as possible, without screwing him up more.

I have adult adhd friends and they still take meds, just like I take anti depressants...sometimes your brain chemistry is just screwy, like a thyroid issue or diabetes or high blood pressure.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

43. Ever Hear of Dr. Joe Biederman? This should really piss you off.

http://www.alternet.org/health/88333

What Dick Cheney is to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, psychiatrist Joseph Biederman is to the explosion of psychiatric medications in American children. Recently, Biederman was nailed by congressional investigators and the New York Times for overestimating just how greedy an elite shrink is entitled to be. Beyond a peek into the corruption of psychiatry at its highest levels, the scandal is an opportunity to reconsider the Big Pharma financed view of why kids become disruptive and destructive.

On June 8, 2008, the New York Times reported the following about Joseph Biederman: "A world-renowned Harvard child psychiatrist whose work has helped fuel an explosion in the use of powerful anti-psychotic medicines in children earned at least $1.6 million in consulting fees from drug makers from 2000 to 2007 but for years did not report much of this income to university officials, according to information given congressional investigators."

Due in part to Biederman's influence, the number of American children and adolescents treated for bipolar disorder increased 40-fold from 1994 to 2003, and as Bloomberg News reported (September 2007), "The expanded use of bipolar as a pediatric diagnosis has made children the fastest-growing part of the $11.5 billion U.S. market for anti-psychotic drugs."

[pattmarty]

55. Years ago when I was around 14 yo (1961 or so) my folks took me.........

..........to a psychiatrist who prescribed amphetamines for me. I only went for 4 or 5 visits and quit him and the drugs after that. To this day I don't like psychiatrists or trust them (look at Chas Krauthammer).

[HuckleB]

63. Nice ad hominem attack.

[pattmarty]

67. Are you going to run for President again? I sure liked you as my...........

............Governor and pastor.

[HuckleB]

72. Ad hominem number 2!

Goodness.

[Iggo]

59. 10 million, if you count the mom-diagnosed ones.

[HuckleB]

65. Practice Parameter for the Assessment and Treatment of Children and Adolescents With ADHD

http://www.aacap.org/galleries/PracticeParameters/JAACAP_ADHD_2007.pdf

A little FYI.

[HuckleB]

66. ADHD & school dropouts (Yes, ADHD is real.)

http://universityofcalifornia.edu/sites/uchealth/2010/07/26/adhd-school-dropouts/

[Iggo]

70. I do believe it's real.

I just don't believe most of the people who tell me their kids have it.

[HuckleB]

71. So where is the data to back up your claim?

[Iggo]

73. My claim that I don't believe it?

[HuckleB]

75. Yup.

[Iggo]

77. LOL.

:P

[HuckleB]

78. Ah, so you're just sitting at the bar, talking to talk.

[Iggo]

79. Data to back up my claim that I don't believe most parents?

Data to back up my claim that I don't believe them?

What data would you find acceptable?

A brain scan?

[HuckleB]

80. How about data showing most parents who think their kids have ADHD are proven wrong by clinicians?

Something? Anything that would support your belief?

[Iggo]

81. I never claimed that.

[HuckleB]

82. So post 70 doesn't exist.

Got it.

[Iggo]

85. That's where I claimed that parents who think their kids have ADHD are proven wrong by clinicians?

Huh?

[HuckleB]

86. Hello?

I asked if you had data such as that to back up your "belief."

Wow!

[Iggo]

87. No, you asked if I had data to back up my claim.

Thanks for playing.

[HuckleB]

88. I asked, and you asked what kind.

I asked for something comparing parent belief with clinician diagnosis as an example of the kind of support I would want to see for such a belief. When you couldn't back up your belief, you started playing even weirder games.

Whatever.

[Recursion]

90. That wouldn't back up his claim

His claim was that he doesn't believe most parents who tell him their kids have ADHD.

As he points out, the only data that could support that claim is a brainscan, of him, while a parent tells him her kid has ADHD.

[NashVegas]

74. Look, No One Denies That

What many of us are saying is that there are too many cases where ADD/ADHD is a convenient diagnosis that allows a situation to continue where a kid simply has a home and parents that are not conducive to creating a learning machine, and learning machines are what schools want. If they can't have that, they'll settle for something that doesn't disrupt the rest of the class.

[HuckleB]

76. Actually, some on this board have said just that.

See post 52 for the rest of my response to your post.

[NashVegas]

83. For Every Parent Who Says They Have An ADD/ADHD Kid

Most of us see 4 other parents claiming the same thing, while they're visiting your home and their kid is climbing on your dining room table - and they take no notice.

This is an example of why the disparity of belief exists.

For every adult I know who has ADD/ADHD symptoms and claims to have ADHD, I know 3 others who have the symptoms and find ways to channel it productively and have a decent personal life.

For every 10 people I know who have ADD/ADHD symptoms, there is maybe 1 who has it so bad that they'd be in jail if they didn't have something to do with their hands. That's the person who needs the medication.

[HuckleB]

84. Nice vague anecdotes.

Remember, the plural of anecdote is not data.

And your response is a bit of red herring, to begin with.

[NashVegas]

89. Trite, Cute, And Very, Very Wrong Usage of a Famous Quote

> Nelson W. Polsby PS, Vol. 17, No. 4. (Autumn, 1984), pp. 778-781. Pg.
> 779: Raymond Wolfinger's brilliant aphorism "the plural of anecdote is
> data" never inspired a better or more skilled researcher.

I e-mailed Wolfinger last year and got the following response from him:

"I said 'The plural of anecdote is data' some time in the 1969-70 academic
year while teaching a graduate seminar at Stanford. The occasion was a
student's dismissal of a simple factual statement--by another student or
me--as a mere anecdote. The quotation was my rejoinder.
Since then I have missed few opportunities to quote myself. The only
appearance in print that I can remember is Nelson Polsby's accurate
quotation and attribution in an article in PS: Political Science and
Politics in 1993; I believe it was in the first issue of the year."

I also e-mailed Polsby, who didn't know of any early printed occurrences.

What is interesting about this saying is that it seems to have morphed
into its opposite -- "Data is not the plural of anecdote" -- in some
people's minds. Mark Mandel used it in this opposite sense in a private
e-mail to me, for example.

Fred Shapiro

[crim son]

68. Interesting. My 10-yr-old has been the youngest kid in his class since

kindergarten and guess what? The school tried to tell me he was both ADD and that he had a speech defect. I took him to his pediatrician who told me it was a load of baloney. And it was. He's a perfectly normal, if very clever and energetic kid.

[bluestateguy]

92. People are finally waking up to this sham

Yes, some people legitimately do have it, but mostly the whole thing is a racket.

[Odin2005]

93. I was misdiagnosed with ADHD until I was finally diagnosed with Asperger's at age 15.

[femrap]

96. I wonder if there is a drug

prescribed for those kids who are said to be ODD? (Opposition Defiance Disorder)

IMHO, this is simply 'Question Authority.'

Thankfully this wasn't around when I was a kid.

[Pavulon]

98. Really Simple, take your kid to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis.

GPs and schools are not the place to make that decision. ADD is real the treatment works for people who actually need it.

[happy_liberal]

100. triple the odds of aortic dissection

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Young adults who abuse amphetamines may be more likely to suffer an often fatal tear in the body's main artery, the aorta, U.S. researchers said on Tuesday.

A study of medical records from 31 million people aged 18 to 49 and hospitalized from 1995 to 2007 found that those who had abused amphetamines had triple the odds of aortic dissection, the team at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center said.

Amphetamines, often called speed or crank, are widely abused but also legitimately used to treat attention deficit disorder, narcolepsy and other sleep disorders. They can also aid in weight loss.

The drugs make the heart beat harder and can raise blood pressure. Researchers have previously found they could raise the risk of heart attack and some had suspected that abusing the drugs could also cause aortal tears.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8972735

[madokie]

102. I know a kid who was put on Ritalin

somewhere about the first grade and it has totally screwed him up. He's close to 30 years old now and has no life or not much of one anyway. I feel sorry for him and if he had been my child I'd have told the doctor and the school to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut but you're not putting my child on speed. It totally fucks the kids up big time or the ones I know who have been diagnosed anyway

[Phillip Walker]

103. Thank you

Some of us have been saying this for years and were called lunatics.