Gainesville Church Will Burn Qurans On 9/11 (despite the burn permit denial.)

[kpete]

Source: CBS

Aug 18, 2010 9:38 pm US/Eastern
Gainesville Church Will Burn Qurans On 9/11
GAINESVILLE, Fla. (CBS4) ―


Gainesville officials denied a burn permit for a church that plans to burn copies of the Quran on the ninth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

The Gainesville church, the Dove World Outreach Center, has a history of inflammatory comments and campaigns against Islam and remained defiant despite the burn permit denial.

In an e-mail sent out Wednesday, the church said, "City of Gainesville denies burn permit – BUT WE WILL STILL BURN KORANS."

The Dove World Outreach Center is promoting the event through its website and social networking sites like Facebook. The burning of the Islamic holy text is set to be carried out on the center's grounds.

Read more: http://cbs4.com/local/burning.quran.outreach.2.1867754.html

---

[Richard D]

1. There really should be . . .

. . . a bible burning across the street. Or better yet, a burning of the Constitution.

Damn, I hate bigots; does that make me one?

[Salander]

74. Burning a Quran is far worse than burning a Bible because. . .

the Quran, not Mohammed, is the centerpiece of Islam; whereas, Christ, not the Bible, is the centerpiece of Christianity.

Mohammed is revered by Muslims, as are Jesus, Mary, Moses, Abraham, etc, but Mohammed is not worshiped the way Christians worship Christ. The Quran, however, is considered to be sacred, a direct revelation from God.

Christians may call the Bible 'the word of God,' but everyone knows it is a collection of writings over a long time period, and it has been subjected to many translations, amendments, and expurgations.

[Dulcinea]

78. Don't they know who burns books?

NAZIS.

[superconnected]

85. Don't burn the constitution. It's not the par for the course.

Many fundys would love to burn the constitution and make us a dictatorship and live under their rules.

[wtmusic]

2. The Dove World Outreach Center - that's a shithouse full of irony. nt

[Roland99]

11. ain't it?

[polmaven]

20. "Irony"

isn't exactly the term I would use. F**king Hypocrisy is, in my opinion, closer to it.

[No Elephants]

53. "Outreach" for the purpose of converting everyone to Christianity, not for the purpose

of bridge building among religions.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earthside]

4. I know what they say ...

... about losing the argument when referring to the Nazis.

Nevertheless, I just don't see how one cannot help but think of the Jews in 1930s Germany when seeing a news report like this.

[geardaddy]

16. Yep, I know what you mean.

It's the time-held American feature though, too. Look at all the German books mobs in the US burnt during WWI and the anti-immigrant hysteria that happens at every turn in this country.

[polmaven]

21. At least during WWII

we were at war with the government of Germany. Muslims din not attack this country on 9/11/2001. Al Quaida did.

[geardaddy]

24. That's right.

but were we at war with German-Americans?

I'm just saying that book burning parties stem from that broad-brush bigotry.

[polmaven]

49. I agree completely.

This book burning is nothing more than outright bigotry at its worst.

[Hekate]

72. During WW I German-Americans were harassed. Many Anglicized their names then.

Be that as it may, book burnings have always been a feature of totalitarian regimes.

This is so chilling, and stupid, stupid, stupid.

Hekate

[No Elephants]

46. The ones who say things like that are often right wingers who are tired of being compared to Nazis

or people who fall for their bs. I'd ignore them. Or label what they doing.

[d_r]

5. good, fine em

[slackmaster]

6. That's messed up

I hope they get a healthy slap-on-the-wrist fine.

[ixion]

7. Oh, gee, what a (whacko fundie) Christist thing to do...

:sarcasm:

[Igel]

33. Eh. The Ikhwan did the parallel but opposite thing.

They announced a Muslim-country-wide Bible-burning day on 8/1/2010, IIRC. Don't know the date for the actual Bible burning.

Oddly, this single church gets lots of attention on this site. The Ikhwan's action gets rather less attention. After all, we're told that the Ikhwan's all composed of nice guys now.

Conservative sites barely mention the Ikhwan's call for Bible burning. Then again, conservative sites--no less than liberal ones--have trouble if the group's title isn't in English. Moreover, actually delimiting and defining the Ikhwan is every bit as hard as delimiting and defining The Base.

[mbperrin]

51. The Ikhwan were disbanded in 1930 by the Saudi government and

turned into the Saudi National Guard.

Got a link for this assertion?

Apparently the people at this stupid church don't realize that the first five books of the Koran are the same as the first five books of the Bible they use.

Sheesh

[Frisbee]

8. It's crap like this...

that makes me proud to not be affiliated with any religion.

[shotten99]

9. Give them a dose of their own medicine

Suggest that we rename the NRA HQ into the John F Hinckley Jr Center for Constitutional Rights

[Warpy]

10. It would be delightful if the fire department showed up

and doused all the participants along with the fire and then fined them.

[KurtNYC]

12. Ignorance, hatred and intolerance are weapons of the War on Culture

Maybe we could set aside an area where we would fly our idiots and their idiots (bc there are plenty of intolerant ignorant Imams) and let them fight it out.

Religion is NOT spirituality. It is thought control.

[era veteran]

13. Revoke the fucking TAX FREE status of this group of

superstitious assholes.

[Xithras]

37. For this group, that may be possible.

Generally speaking, it's next to impossible to force a genuine church to pay taxes, but these nutbars are already under investigation over allegations that the entire "church" is actually a cover for a for-profit business.

[era veteran]

38. I know I would interpret the law differently than the IRS

You are right though, too many are political for the spirit of this.IMO R

[Xithras]

42. Actually, even a change with IRS enforcement wouldn't matter.

The religious tax exemption is a convenience, and not a requirement. The USSC held, long ago, that the first amendment itself protects churches from paying taxes. "Congress shall pass no law..." includes laws requiring tax payments. It's a constitutional issue.

The 501c3 was invented about a half century ago as an easy way for churches avoid legal entanglements, after a number of high profile clashes between the government and churches over taxation. Churches have never had to pay taxes, but court cases over the definition of "religon" used to be a regular thing.

If a church is stripped of 501c3 status, they don't automatically have to begin paying taxes. A removal of 501c3 status simply means that the church reverts to the "old rules", where they will be forced to regularly show their income and expenses, and prove that no profit was taken.

A sizeable percentage of churches in the U.S. already don't have 501c3 status (including Amish churches, as an example). Almost none pay taxes, because most are genuine religious institutions.


That's why forcing a church to pay taxes is so difficult. It's not just the IRS that makes the call.

[No Elephants]

47. Do you happen to know the name of that USSC case you mentioned?

I've never heard of it before.

I'm very surprised to hear of it since churches that advocate voting for a particular candidate have been taxed. No one says that advocate voting for a particular candidate means that they are not churches anymore.

I know the First Amendment means that the IRS cannot pick and choose among churches--e.g., treating the Church of Scientolgy differently from, say the Catholic Church. But I've never heard it means Congress must exempt churches from taxes.

[era veteran]

48. Thanks for the education

[No Elephants]

50. Things that are posted are not necessarily gospel. (pun intended). People err.

I'm not saying the poster is definitely wrong. Just saying I've read a lot of Supreme Court cases without coming across that one. I've also discussed the issue on boards for years without hearing that claim before. Never heard a minister or a politician say it either.

It's possible it's just escaped my attention. But I'd like to see at least a case name before I agree with the poster.

http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/indexes/bldec_TaxIndex.htm

[NorthCarolina]

14. Are Muslims the new "Gay"?

Hate drives donations to the "Po' Box", but with the waning popularity of demonizing "The Gay", I can't help but imagine that Churches will latch on to the "Evil Muslim" as the replacement boogeyman that drives membership and donations.

[DirkGently]

18. That makes sense, actually. Grasping for the levers of social

hatred in the face of waning interest? People are perhaps less onboard lately with blaming The Gay, because the court case dragged the "argument" for that point of view out in the open and beat it thoroughly about the head and shoulders.

So back we go to religious animus?

Pretty weak.

[No Elephants]

52. Muslims are the new Japanese. Gays are the new gay--and the old.

they never moved to first class citizens.

[queerart]

82. Thank You.....

For pointing that out.....

[denverbill]

15. Someone needs to get a court order to stop this so they will be in contempt of court.

They've publicly announced they fully intend to knowingly break the law and are conspiring to break the law. They need some jail time if the do it in defiance of a court order.

[SnakeEyes]

17. Won't necessarily stop it...

History has shown that some people will defy courts to demonstrate, protest, and do so with the idea they exercising their right to free speech.

[wookie72]

26. Break what law?

Burning whatever you want is not a crime. Fortunately, GHWB's flag-burning amendment never passed.

[Zenlitened]

32. Good point. - n/t

[msanthrope]

69. There's an actual Gainesville law prohibiting this....

"Gene Prince, interim chief of Gainesville Fire Rescue, said Wednesday that under the city's fire prevention ordinance, an open burning of books is not allowed."

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100819/ARTICLES/8191045/1002

Not saying if the law would hold up under judicial scrutiny, but there is a law.

[wookie72]

76. A fire hazard would make sense

But the act of destruction is protected by the First Amendment.

[msanthrope]

81. I agree. I don't know if the fire hazard law would stand

up to judicial scrutiny, since it seems that any outdoor barbeque would be breaking the law.....

\

[Leftist Agitator]

19. Someone should show up to their event and burn a few Bibles...

And see how these fuckheads like that.

[MessiahRp]

23. [phone]

LOL, I love that idea. I would totally do that if I lived anywhere near there. :)

[wookie72]

28. Proving what?

That you can be just as bigotted as them?

[Chicago dyke]

41. sigh.

it's not "bigoted" it's "ironic." as in "so you think you have the right to burn a "holy" book? well, so do we. starting with yours."

don't be dense.

[wookie72]

77. Irony aside

Why insult and offend people who believe in the Bible but don't hate Muslims? (There are a few, you know.)

[L0oniX]

22. This is a NON event at a very small church. That church doesn't even have seats in it.

The church is used to sell used furniture and what not from donations. This issue is something the press has grabbed onto for exploitation. I am not defending the church but I am condemning the press for it's usual bull shit dog and pony show tactics and making a mountain out of a mole hill. This church pastor is using this to gain reputation and money. He's a fear profiteer.

[wookie72]

25. Sounds a little like the Westboro Baptists...

Which is basically just the Phelps family and their lawyers.

[crim son]

27. What an astonishing bunch of jackasses.

If I lived anywhere nearby I'd be burning bibles across the street, just because.

[superconnected]

29. Because instead of Armageddon they want Jihad!

Seriously, one nutty group burning the doctrine of another. Okay, I do want to see that place(the church or their doctrine) burned in effigy as you get back what you give.

[arbusto_baboso]

30. Do they know that some books from the Bible are also in the Quran?

Obviously not. Fucktards.

[Igel]

35. Could you point to one?

Here's a link to the Qur'aan:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/qr/index.htm

Here's one to a Bible site:

http://www.biblegateway.com/

This will take you a while, I'm sure, so just PM me when you find where Psalms, perhaps, or maybe Luke, is in the Qur'aan.

[arbusto_baboso]

36. Not my job. Do it yourself.

You have the links.

[Dr. Strange]

43. According to the links, there is no overlap.

Which book(s) of the Bible did you also see in the Quran?

[arbusto_baboso]

44. Okay, mistaken choice of words. Not books, but passages.

And whole theological concepts.

Jesus is mentioned by name 25 times. The virgin birth story is recounted. Jesus is also referred to as "messiah", though that term means something else to Islam.

[Xithras]

39. Not exactly.

The Quran confirms the validity of the Torah (Sura 32:23, Sura 10:94), and commands Muslims to abide by it (Sura 10:95).

There are no books of the Bible or Torah actually included within the Quran, but traditional Islam gives the words of those books equal validity to the Koran except in instances where the two conflict, in which case the Quran takes precedence.

There are, of course, stories in the Quran which are essentially retellings of stories already in the Old Testament, but they aren't the same stories, and in many cases are extensively changed.

[arbusto_baboso]

45. Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for clarifying.

Just FYI, the virgin birth story is in the Quran, Jesus is called Messiah, and is mentioned 25 times.

[Hekate]

73. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are referred to as the three Abrahamic religions...

... because in legend Abraham was the primal prophet recognized by them all. Thus these religions are brothers to one another. Fratricidal at times, but brothers all the same.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/themes/religion/index.html
>> Three of the world's major religions -- the monotheist traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- were all born in the Middle East and are all inextricably linked to one another. Christianity was born from within the Jewish tradition, and Islam developed from both Christianity and Judaism.
>>
>> While there have been differences among these religions, there was a rich cultural interchange between Jews, Christians, and Muslims that took place in Islamic Spain and other places over centuries. >snip<
>>
>> The culture of Islamic Spain, for example, was so cosmopolitan that some Christian and Jewish parents complained that their children were more interested in developing their knowledge of Arabic than in learning Latin or Hebrew, respectively. Many elements of Islamic society became integral parts of medieval and Renaissance European culture, like the notion of chivalry, and certain forms of music (the lute, the arabesque) and poetry. >snip<

[Zenlitened]

31. Since they don't have a permit, are they holding the event indoors?

:D

[Vidar]

34. Tit for tat: burn the church.

[Chicago dyke]

40. any rich atheists wanna fly me down there, along with a bunch of

my atheist friends? i'm more than happy to burn Bibles right along side the Quran BBQ fest. that would be funny.

[muntrv]

54. Let's burn bibles across the street, using their shitbag logic.

[superconnected]

84. That's the only thing I can arrive at. I mean what other reaction can they expect?

[cory777]

55. After permit denied, Florida church insists, ‘We will still burn Korans’ on 9/11

Source: Associated Press

Officials in a Florida city have denied a burn permit for a church that is seeking to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Interim Fire Chief Gene Prince said Wednesday that the open burning of books is not allowed under Gainesville's burning ordinance.

The Dove World Outreach Center drew international attention after announcing a plan to burn copies of the Islamic holy text on church grounds to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Prince says the church will be fined if the burning is held.

Read more: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0819/permit-denied-defiant-florida-church-insists-we-burn-korans/

---

Uncensored News http://activistnews.blogspot.com Don't be Scared!

[bluestateguy]

56. They are welcome to engage in thier hate speech in the privacy of their own church

nt

[Chulanowa]

66. That's not the issue

In fact I imagine the Gainesville fire department could give a damn less what is getting burned; no open fires means no open fires. it's august, it's hot, and the vegetation is dry. No book-burnings, no trash-burning, no pit grilling, no drunken bonfires, none of it.

[SoapBox]

57. These "holy" people are frack'n crazy.

...these freaks are no better than any other religious haters in the world.

They are anything BUT Christian.

[geomon666]

58. Lock em up.

Trust me, after a few hours in a Florida holding cell a few of these nuts will never even think about lighting something on fire again. They may never even leave their church again.

[hyphenate]

62. We could only hope......

[Zoeisright]

59. Good - arrest them! I'm sure they'll have fun in prison.

A fine isn't enough.

[Archae]

60. If they do light 'em up...

Hose the fuckers down! :-)

[rrneck]

61. A new high in low. nt

[Frisbee]

63. I hope most of them have the same glue in...

their bindings as the wedding invitation envelopes George Costanza picked out, and it remains toxic and goes air-borne when burned.

[thecrow]

64. Tax them...............n/t

[krispos42]

65. Speaking of things you have the right to do but shouldn't

:banghead:

The stupid, it burns.

[struggle4progress]

67. In my world, bigoted bookburners = nazis

[Downwinder]

68. Are they going to accompany the burning with a screening of Fahrenheit 9/11? n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

70. Fahrenheit 451.

The movie you might be thinking of.

"Where first they burn books, eventually they burn people". -- Heinrich Heine, 1821, from his play Almanzor, where a character in the Inquisition burns a Koran.

[Downwinder]

71. No I meant 9/11 "The Temperature at Which Freedom Burns."

The title of the film alludes to Ray Bradbury's 1953 novel Fahrenheit 451, a dystopian view of the future United States, analogizing the autoignition temperature of paper with the date of the September 11 attacks; the film's tagline is "The Temperature at Which Freedom Burns."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_9/11

[western mass]

75. next best thing to a good ol' cross-burnin'

[Jefferson23]

79. I applaud the response these assholes are receiving, even though

they don't deserve it:

In response to the inflammatory event, the Council on American-Islamic Relations has asked Muslims to invite friends and acquaintances to share educational, fast-ending Ramadan meals and distribute copies of the Quran on September 11.

[Rod85]

80. It would create jobs

They'd have to buy the books. So it would help create jobs. Making the books, shipping, etc..
Plus they would get fined for burning without a permit and the fire department could go in and put the fire out.
Then the fire department could hand them a bill for responding.

I think it's a silly thing they are doing, but the right people could use their silly activity to create jobs and put funding in the area.

[superconnected]

83. Okay, it's getting to me. Are people going to stand outside and burn Bibles in protest?

[mikeSchmuckabee]

86. I wonder if any swarthy young men are learning to fly planes

in the sunshine state. You know, the kind of training that doesn't include landing.

[mikeSchmuckabee]

87. Where the hell do you buy a Koran in florida?

Don't they realize that the publishers of Korans are often Muslims. Perhaps even radical muslims who might use an increase in profits to push their agenda.

[mikeSchmuckabee]

88. Which will happen first?

Koran hits the fire or plane hits the church?