Franken calls opposition to mosque nr Ground Zero ‘1 of the most disgraceful things that I’ve heard'

[kpete]

Source: Think Progress

Franken calls opposition to mosque near Ground Zero ‘one of the most disgraceful things that I’ve heard.’

As conservatives continue their hateful campaign against building the proposed Park 51 Islamic community center and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in New York City, Democratic leaders have started to push back. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) told a local news station earlier this week that the mosque was a “local decision” and that we’re “not at war with a religion, we’re at war with terrorism.” Illinois Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Alexi Giannoulias, despite being in a tough race, spoke out in favor of building the mosque as well. Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) said it wasn’t the “role” of politicians to tell people where to worship and that the mosque’s organizers “should be able to” build where they want. Speaking at the Democratic County Chairmen’s Association breakfast yesterday in Illinois, Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) continued this trend by slamming the mosque’s critics. He called opposition to the mosque “one of the most disgraceful things that I’ve heard,” and used his trademark humor to mock conservative opponents for being scared of “Muslim point guards” that might play basketball at the community center:

U.S. Sen. Al Franken gave a quip-filled speech at the Democratic County Chairmen’s Association breakfast Wednesday, attacking Republicans for opposing the building of a mosque blocks from Ground Zero in New York City. ... Franken said conservative opposition to the mosque is “one of the most disgraceful things that I’ve heard.”

“I don’t know how many of you have been to New York, but if a building is two blocks away from anything, you can’t see it. It’s a community center. They’re going to have a gym. They’re going to have point guards. Muslim point guards,” Franken said, to laughter and applause.

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/19/franken-mosque-disgraceful/

[arbusto_baboso]

1. I likes me some Al Franken.

Why does it take a comedian to actually have some balls?

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[DRex]

61. But this is AMERICA.

What Saudi Arabia does should make no difference, because these are American Muslims.

In America, you see, people have rights defined by the constitution and bill of rights. Not by the bible, the koran, &c.

That's the whole point of America.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[mzteris]

66. I love Senator Franken!

:loveya:

[wakemewhenitsover]

71. Here, in the US, anyone can complain against the intolerant wingers....

With regards to the First Amendment, the only "we" that counts is "We, the people..."

[xxqqqzme]

76. You fully realize, I hope,

what you posted makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[wookie72]

88. What part of "American Muslim" is unclear?

If American Muslims have to answer for Saudi Arabia, then American Catholics (lay people, not priests) need to answer for everything the Vatican does.

It's really simple. The US has freedom of religion. The group building the center did everything legal. End of story.

[DissedByBush]

92. What part of "Muslim" is unclear? n/t

[wookie72]

100. Last time I checked

The First Amendment did not have a clause that said "except for Muslims."

[DissedByBush]

153. Did you see me saying the government should stop them? n/t

[parkia00]

103. Very clear actually!

It's Muslims. Bad evil Muslims here on Haloed ground going to take over the country starting one city block at a time. <--- Some people actually dumb enough to believe that crap. But hey some people like wallowing in crap. They are too near to me. Disgusting Ewww Ewww Ewww. Go away. Go over there. Far away from me. Don't come close. You are different from me. Begone!

Somehow in you plane of logic you encompass all Muslims as behaving equally. The same level of logic that dictate all Christians are child molesters since they in all their wisdom have concluded that naughty priests are Christians from one sect but they are Christians non the less thus they represent all Christians. Thus all Christians are bad! 1+2 = 12. I guess that's why you brought Saudi Arabia into the discussion even though it's a separate country with separate laws and separate levels of tolerance. Tell you what. When the good US of A becomes as tolerant as Saudi Arabia then you have some point in your triage. But thankfully for now the US of A is more tolerant although some might argue that level is sliding due to some very loud bigots waving flags and calling for other to join them in their shit wallowing. But for now... it isn't. There is something called the US Constitution <-- VERY important piece of old paper here. That old piece of paper sets the framework of what the United States was founded on. Right at the top it informs. Number one! It states pretty clearly about freedoms. One of them being the freedom of religion. It does NOT say Christian religion. All religion. It's the first amendment. Learn it. It's what this country is about. You cannot ignore it whenever it's convenient for you. This is not Saudi Arabia!

And you may not like it. But this old piece of paper and it's important message outranks YOU. It outranks all the Bigots. It outranks all the racists. It outranks all the talking heads on FOX news and above all it outranks hoards of idiots who can't think for themselves and lets others do the thinking for them.

Don't like it? Hey... there are many places in the world where one can go and raise hell and high water against a minority group or religion that you do not like.

[No Elephants]

104. I know what Muslim means. No clue what "Muslim" or "American"or "American Muslim" means to you,

though. Your posts indicate a lack of information about which each of those three terms means.

[DissedByBush]

147. American Muslims?

Okay, find me some practicing American Muslims who support building a church two blocks from the Masjid al-Haram.

You realize I am proposing what is considered blasphemy of the highest order in Islam, regardless of country, right?

The only difference is some Muslims will only be highly offended if it is done, while others would kill me just for being found within a mile of the Masjid al-Haram.

Some intolerant Americans are offended by Muslims building near a place they hold dear. But at least I don't think you'll see the Muslims at the center slaughtered.

[Usrename]

90. Saudi Arabia is a puppet nation of Washington DC.

It has very little to do with Islam the religion. Or didn't you notice Dubya holding hands with the freaking KING?

You need to rethink your bigotry a little bit. It's 180 degrees wrong. An analogy in this country would be if you were to denounce MLK Jr because he shared a faith with the KKK. It doesn't make any rational sense.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

107. For someone who chose "dissed by Bush" as his screen name, you're mighty quick to defend him.

How forgiving of you! But, you're trying to compare apples and oranges, or Presidents and crime families.

The Bush family, and Dummya and his baseball team in particular, have a more "special" relationship with the Saudis than did Nixon or Obama ever had had or ever will have.

Chumming it up with heads of state is what Presidents do. Following protocol is what Presidents do. Being President does not, however, require male on male hand holding or kissy face with Saudi princes or invading Iraq, though. The Saudi king was not the only royal to whom Obama bowed, but the Saudis (and not only the king) were the only ones Dummya kissed and held hands with.

[DissedByBush]

154. All are beholden to the mighty petrodollar

Bush was no exception.

In addition they have to do anything to keep good relations with Saudi Arabia in the face of unfriendly nations in the area.

"The Saudi king was not the only royal to whom Obama bowed"

I am still offended that our president bowed to any foreign head of state. You bow to superiors. The president has no superior in foreign relations.

Even in the one case where bowing would be allowed, Japan, he bowed more deeply than the Japanese, showing the Japanese to be superior.

"were the only ones Dummya kissed and held hands with"

Strangely this is a positive for Bush. I've been to Saudi Arabia. That is part of the culture among equals. This is the one time Bush showed any knowledge of another culture. Otherwise he tended to offend us all when he was on foreign visits.

Remember the inappropriate "massage" with German Chancellor Merkel? That was embarrassing. I was full of apologies to all my German friends over that one. "Honestly he's an idiot, he doesn't really represent us, he'll be gone soon enough."

And my name does not refer to Bush the Dumber, but the Elder.

[No Elephants]

99. Hard to tell sometimes which is the puppet.

[pinto]

132. Noted in following up another alert. PA.

[No Elephants]

101. You just don't get it. American Muslims are Americans, not Saudis.

They are as much U.S.citizens as you are and have as much right to complain as you do. The U.S Constitution is a contract America made, and makes, with all who live here. Saudis never made that contract.



Also, you are wrong about Saudi Arabia and Muslim. Yes, Mohammed was born in Saudi Arabia, as Jesus was born in Jerusalem. However, Islam is not a centralized religion as Catholicism is under the Pope. Muslim Americans have much less influence over Saudi laws than do our President and Secretary.

Do you blame American Christians for Israel's policies re: religion because Jerusalem and Bethlehem are focal points of Christianity and Christian pilgrimages? (For one thing, Israel used to outlaw attempts to convert Jews--probably still does--and Christians believe God ordered them to try to convert everyone in the world.)

Do you hold all American Catholics responsible for everything that goes on in the government of Vatican City? If so, you have more right to do that as donations from American Catholics help support the government of the Vatican, civil and religious--or at least the Vatican has ultimate control over all donations from all Catholics.

[jberryhill]

119. Try building a synagogue in Vatican City, or a baptist church in Israel

I'm sorry, this is America.

[mzteris]

65. WE are America - you know Land of the Free?

Religious tolerance ring a bell?

We are supposed to be different from Saudia Arabia. WTF is the deal about SA anyway? How many American Muslims have ever even BEEN to f'ing Saudia Arabia?

It's a specious fracking argument that makes not one whit of sense and I canNOT believe that a DEMOCRAT - and a DU'er at that - would even consider that a legitimate argument!

[Zoeisright]

75. So you want this country to be as intolerant as Saudi Arabia?

The whole point is that we AREN'T intolerant. We ALLOW freedom of religion. If you can't grasp that point, I really feel sorry for you. That's the same stupid point that repukes make, thinking that they're using logical reasoning skills, when actually it's totally without logic.

Buh-bye.

[Hissyspit]

78. Yay! The right-wing talking point in no time at all.

These are Muslim AMERICANS who want to do this. Not Muslim Saudi Arabians. So, they are shitty in Saudi Arabia, that means we should be shitty, too?

Because Germans put people in concentration camps, it was o.k. for us to do it to our own citizens?

Really? That's your argument?

[rainlillie]

83. I'd say we start a collection for you, and send you over there and you can build

A church brick by brick.

[No Elephants]

98. Get back to us when the Saudis adopt a Constitution with a religious freedom provision.

You want to make Saudi religious intolerance the standard by which a nation settled for religious freedom in 1620, with religious freedom enshrined in its Constitution since 1789?

I hate religious intolerancce wherever found, but hypocrisy is not a one way street, either. Saudi Arabia never claimed to be the cradle of liberty. We did. Let's not try to excuse our own intolerance and hypocrisy by the infamous "they do it, too" defense.

[No Elephants]

109. Is Al Franken Muslim now? He's the one "complaining."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

110. Fallacious RW talking point is fallacious. And RW.

[No Elephants]

116. ....

Username: DissedByBush

Send private message Add to buddy list

Profile name Profile value
Member since Nov 10th 2007
Number of posts 1897
Gender undeclared

[Amaril]

114. Dude - you need to seriously relax.....

......and remember -- this is America. We're supposed to be BETTER than all the bassackward, human-rights-trampling countries; muslim or otherwise.

[Posteritatis]

127. If the US had an official state religion your post might not be stupid, but it doesn't, so it is. nt

[Salander]

91. Franken has been one of the few bright spots in the Congress.

[No Elephants]

97. I like Al, too. But, testicles have nothing to do with courage.

[aeon]

111. Jefferson Quote

“If the freedom of religion, guaranteed to us by law in theory, can ever rise in practice under the overbearing inquisition of public opinion, then and only then will truth prevail over fanaticism” --Thomas Jefferson

Bigotry is not always so easy to detect. But yes, this is bigotry. There would be no similar reaction in this predominantly Christian country if 19 Christians blew up a building, and nearly a decade later someone was planning on building a Church near the ruins of that building.

[The Northerner]

2. Amen

I'd honestly like to know what reasonable and non-bigoted argument(s) these mosque opponents have.

[sellitman]

3. Franken summed it up perfectly.

As usual.

[geardaddy]

4. That's our senator!

I'm so glad he represents MN.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

11. +1 ... delighted to have Senator Franken represent my state n/t

[ThatsMyBarack]

40. Can I borrow Franken sometime?

Politics sucks in IL!

[geardaddy]

42. No!

We went throuh Hell to get him!

[left is right]

62. I understand your unwillingness to share

But could I just write in his name when it is time to vote for my Senator. There wasn't even a Democratic contender against Dick Lugar when he ran last

[geardaddy]

102. Absolutely!

:D :hi:

[murielm99]

52. This speech was given in Springfield, IL.

Franken was the keynote speaker for the Illinois Democratic County Chairmen's Association brunch. I was there.

He gave a great speech. One of the other highlights of the speech was his imitation of the late, great Paul Simon.

Politics in Illinois do not universally suck. Look at the statewide list of candidates that we are running. There are some wonderful people. When you need services in Illinois, look at the great career civil servants who staff the offices in Springfield.

Why not get involved in Illinois politics if you want some changes, instead of trying to borrow Minnesota's Senator? We have a great Senator in Dick Durbin. We will have another great one with Alexi Giannoulias.

[No Elephants]

108. Probably not literally, but Ground Zero is not in MN, either. He is representing all of us!

You can contribute to his re-election campaign from out of state. I consider my contribution to Al's recount battle some of the best money I ever spent! Definitely my very best political contribution.

[pleah]

5. K&R

[Frisbee]

6. Republicans support the Constitution...

when it serves their needs. Any other time, it is nothing more than an ass-wipe to them. Which when you think about it, is ironic, because they are nothing more than ass-wipes to me. Go figure.

[SnakeEyes]

67. Unless they are advocating government intervention

rather than an opinion that those behind the project shouldn't build there then the Constitution doesn't factor into this. They are exercising their right to free speech.

[No Elephants]

117. You're right. It's digusting bigotry, not a legal issue. However, RWers are not shy about invoking

the Constitution when it doesn't apply. One of thousands of examples: Don Imus being criticized for his racist remarks was, according to RWers, a violation of his "free speech rights." (Apparently, his critics had no counterpart "free speech rights," either.)

[Mnpaul]

7. Give 'em hell Al

Don't let the fearmongers win.

[theaocp]

8. Earth to Obama, Reid, & Dean

THIS is called taking a stand. Look it up in the book. Grow a spine!

[green917]

9. That's my Senator!

I was discussing this issue with a right-winger last night while at the coffee shop and took a slightly different tack after the freedom of religion angle didn't work. I asked her if she supports the "free market". She replied yes. I asked if she thought that someone else should be able to tell her what she can or can't do with her property, within reason? She, of course, replied no. I then pointed out that if we have a truly free market society, nobody, least of all she who is thousands of miles away, should be able to tell this developer what he can or can't do with the property he has rightfully purchased. She said, "well okay, I guess you have a point but I still think it's in poor taste."

I replied, "well, there's definitely no accounting for taste in our society!"

[LisaM]

18. Ha ha. Really. If we mandated taste

There wouldn't be a Disneyland. Is she against Disneyland? Because she certainly can't think it's in good taste!

[lunatica]

24. We'll be sure to appoint her the Good Taste Nazi if a law is ever passed

What an idiot. Maybe they should pass a Constitutional Amendment against idiots, word salad and high horse riding.

[defendandprotect]

10. Agree -- right wing is using this to build hatred for Muslims . . .

just as they used 9/11 to do !!

[No Elephants]

131. Not only the RW.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Absolutely correct as usual.

[madrchsod]

13. i`d say hubert and paul are proud of al.

[Uncle Joe]

14. The way I see it, if they don't build the mosque because of fear and/or hatred, then the

"terrorists" have won.

If as *Bush said, "they hate us for our freedoms," that would most certainly include freedom of religion as is written in the First Amendment.

If you rape and destroy the United States' Constitution beyond recognition, is it still the United States anymore?

If it's not the United States because we've abandoned our highest ideals to fear and hatred, the terrorists have won.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.


*My belief was/is that Bush was a lying sack of shit when he said that, but it doesn't change the point of my post; it just highlights the hypocrisy of the Republican Party.

[No Elephants]

118. I know you said "IF Bush was right," but Muslims DON'T hate us for our freedoms. He knew that.

We've given loads of reasons.

[Uncle Joe]

122. I agree, That's why I also added this addendum to the bottom.

*My belief was/is that Bush was a lying sack of shit when he said that, but it doesn't change the point of my post; it just highlights the hypocrisy of the Republican Party.

My belief is, it all goes back to oil, if they didn't have any, we wouldn't be there and 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

[No Elephants]

136. I agree, but my post was speaking to why Arabs/Muslims resent us, not why we invaded their countries

Btw, under names like "Esso" and "N.J.Standard Oil," we've been practically stealing their oil for a very long time anyway. At one point, we (well, those companies) traded one barrel of water for one barrel of oil.

[Uncle Joe]

144. I believe it still goes back to oil, they resent us because we're in their nations and

due to our support of autocratic regimes and the only reason we've done/do that is because of our dependence on oil.

Osama Bin Forgotten and Al Qaueda declared war against us after we put a base; in their holy land of Saudi Arabia and this was done because Saddam Hussein; whom we earlier supported against Iran invaded Kuwait over a disputed oil field.

It almost always goes back to oil.

If we minded our own business and weren't in their backyard, I don't believe the Arabs/Muslims would give a rat's ass about us even if they didn't personally approve of our life styles and society.

[Kall]

15. Al is one of the last sane men in a Senate full of lunatics.

And maybe the Knicks could use the place for recruitment, too.

[harun]

29. Yah, must be hard for him not to come right and and say his colleagues are all

frickin sold out crooks.

[Scottybeamer70]

16. Way to go, Sen. Franken

Finally!!!!!!!!!! A voice of reason!

[Eatacig]

17. So our Troops died in Vain?

x( After Bush's story of WMD's was proved false, he said we went to liberate Iraqis who are Muslim. So are the republicans now saying our Troops died in vain, liberating people we should hate? Evil people who don't even deserve religious freedom in their own country?

[jberryhill]

35. Actually, we fought to make a secular Iraq an officially Muslim Iraq

Did you ever read the new constitution of Iraq?

The old constitution was secular. The new one - the one we fought for - made the country officially Muslim.

[Alameda]

124. Interesting.....I didn't realize that. Does it specify Suni or Shia?

[No Elephants]

126. Neither. We did not exactly fight for a Muslim Constitution, either. We "presided" over creation

of one.


What happened: We ousted Saddam. Don't know if Iraq had a Constitution of any kind under Saddam or not.

While our peeps were the only governing force/body in Iraq, we "presided over" the writing of an Iraqi Constitution. We allowed the folks drafting it to make ALL of Muslim religious law (sharia law) part of the Iraqi Constitution. It's "incorporated by reference" rather than being all spelled out, so I'm guess there would be room for fighting over exactly what is or is not sharia law

I don't know enough about Islam to be sure of my guess. I just know that what is or is not a "true" part of a religion, what is instead heresy and what is neither, but mere tradition, has been discussed and debated for millenia in Christianity. So, I'm guessing the same is possible in Islam.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. thank you al franken

[myrna minx]

20. I adore my Senator.

:applause:

[democrank]

21. Thank you, Senator Franken.

How heartening it is to see a Democratic politician take a courageous stand.

[RoccoR5955]

22. This non-issue is nothing more than thinly veiled racism.

That's it in the nutshell. The nutjobs need someone to hate, some group to hate, something to hate. This is the new boogie-man.

[aeon]

112. Muslims come in all types of races...

I disagree. It's bigotry, not racism. Muslims come in all types of races.

[No Elephants]

133. True, but what do you thnk would happen if an Arab American Center

were being proposed, without regard to whether said Saudis or Arabs were Muslim, atheist, Christian or Buddhist, etc.? No problem? I doubt it.


On the other hand, what if an Indonesian Center were being proposed? Same flack? I doubt it.


It's similar to Judaism, because the percentages as to religion are so overwhelming in both groups. However, atheism or did not keep a single Jew out of any Nazi oven. Was it about religion? Yes. Was it about more than religion? Also yes.

Same with Arabs and Islam as it is with Jews and Judaism.

[totodeinhere]

23. It's not only conservatives. Harry Reid and Howard Dean among others have said that the project

should be located elsewhere.

[abq e streeter]

26. a very disheartened and disappointed + 1

hugely disappointed in Dean anyway; Reid being spineless is not exactly breaking news.

[totodeinhere]

73. Mosque debate divides Democrats, especially in NY

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_us/us_mosque_divided_democrats

The latest Democrat to break with Obama is Rep. John Hall, a two-term incumbent expected to face a strong challenge from Republican Nan Hayworth in the 19th district north of New York City.

(snip)

Hall joins three other House Democrats believed to be vulnerable in November who have announced their opposition to the project.

You wouldn't know it from reading DU, but a lot of Democrats are opposing locating the project at that site. It's not just Republicans who oppose it. Of course, two of the highest profile Dems who suggest a compromise are Howard Dean and Harry Reid, as we all know.

[No Elephants]

121. The media keeps bsing about various Democrats "breaking from Obama." Untrue.

Obama (paraphase) They have a Constitutional right to build near Ground Zero.

{b]I did not express--and will not express--any opinion as to whether they SHOULD build there.

Others (paraphrase). They have a Constitutional right to build near Ground Zero.

Nonetheless, they SHOULD build elsewhere.


Expressing an opinion is now "breaking from" saying no comment? Ridiculous!


Pot stirring as journalism. Our media is a pathetic lot. I guess. it's our fault we let them get away with it, though.

[Lugnut]

25. Thank you, Sen Franken.

Finally, some common sense.

[BetterThanNoSN]

27. I have 1 question

Having watched much of this debate, I haven't seen asked exactly how many blocks from ground zero this mosque should be built to stop Right-wing fear mongering? If they answered honestly, they'd tell you about 7000 miles. Seriously though, exactly how many blocks before they shut up? And i want a number!

[PSzymeczek]

49. It's not even a mosque!

It's a community center; it's going to have a swimming pool, a food court, a culinary school, a gymnasium, and a couple of prayer rooms. It's kind of like a YMCA, and will be open to everyone. It's not at "Ground Zero," it's 2 1/2 blocks from the northern edge of the former World Trade Center, which is acually more like 6 normal blocks in Lower Manhattan. You can't even see the building, an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory, from "Ground Zero."

[progressoid]

68. 5, 10, 15, 20 blocks, upper west side in Woody Allen's building.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-hearing-update

[No Elephants]

134. Where they probably would not be welcome, either.

[No Elephants]

Self delete. Dupe.

[No Elephants]

123. Jon Stewart did a bit on this, backed by videos from all over the U.S.

[harun]

28. Thanks Al! And a big plus for "Muslim point guards", hehe.

[wellst0nev0ter]

30. Finally, Someone I Can Be Proud Of

I wish he didn't have to speak up on this issue because frankly it's was idiotic from the beginning. But I guess that's where we are as a country now. Klobuchar, I'm looking at you now.

[AlbertCat]

31. but if a building is two blocks away from anything, you can’t see it.

and even if you could, it will look like the Burlington Coat Factory.

But Right Wingers think it will look like this:





No doubt Allah himself will be floating right above the main dome ALL THE TIME!

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. God Bless him!! Kick and recommend!!

[kpete]

33. I LOVE THIS PIC TO GO WITH IT!!!

"Muslim point guards"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

[bobburgster]

34. He is right....1000% n/t

[austin_democrat]

36. This is rediculous, where is the Obama I voted for?

Grow some executive testicles, sir.

[AlbertCat]

45. where is the Obama I voted for?

Out saying the center should be built and explaining the 1st Amendment to American citizens? :eyes:

[elias7]

53. Have you not noticed him being trashed by the right this past week?

[No Elephants]

130. Unjustly, though. Even RWers say the Imam has a 1st Am. right to build

near Ground Zero, as did Dean and Reid. . It's not a risky, controversial or courageous stand to say it's a first amendment right bc EVERYone agrees on ALL legal issues, from the First Amendment right on down to NYC land use regulations.

RWers and some Democrats, however, add that the Imam should not build there, even though he can Obama refused to comment, one way or another, on that part.

Since when does being trashed by the right have anything to do with facts?

[elias7]

145. The fact that Obama weighed in early was my point

It was a response to a post that I read as someone missing that fact

[No Elephants]

129. Testicles = courage? I hope you aren't saying that in front of children.

[fascisthunter]

37. these morons should be embarrassed, but their too whacko

to be truthfully self-observant.

Hey extremists... your POV is worthless and no matter how much you try to shove your insanity down every American's throat, you will always lose. Keep repeating the same thing over and over again; definition of insanity.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobburgster]

39. I wonder if the mosque issue means......

that no catholic churches should be built near playgrounds too?

Wonder if Newt & friends will be taking up that cause too...

:sarcasm:

[hay rick]

55. +1.

I'm going to use your Catholic church analogy in all my future conversations on this subject.

[No Elephants]

137. Daily Show analogy. (Or was it Colbert?)

[Taverner]

41. Awesome!!!

Even as an Atheist - I have to fight for other groups' rights!

[No Elephants]

139. As a Christian, so do I, as well as fighting for separation of church and state/

[Taverner]

142. See! There's no faith v reason war - we can all get along

And keep theocrats from gaining a foothold!

[ThatsMyBarack]

43. President Franken 2016!

:patriot:

[aeon]

113. Hear, Hear!

I second that nomination!

[alp227]

44. Well said Mr Senator.

This emotionally-charged local story shouldn't be dominating the headlines at a time when millions of Americans nationwide lack jobs and are losing their homes. Sorry, but the Constitution trumps people's obsessive, ill-conceived "Islam=terrorist" sensitivities.

[athenasatanjesus]

46. Really? Franken must not hear conservatives often enough.

This doesn't even break the top 50 of disgraceful things said by the right.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

48. I agree

[Hansel]

50. I hope you're joking. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Really? Please name 50 more disgraceful things said by the right

Go!

[No Elephants]

140. Maybe his opinion of what is "one of the most disgraceful" simply differs from yours.

The alternative is that you're much more knowledgable about conservatives than is Big Al. Possible, but unlikely.
Besides, he did not say it was the most disgraceful or even in the top 50 most disgraceful.

[Overseas]

47. Thank you Senator Franken. K&R. //nt

[6000eliot]

51. This is the tone the left needs to take.

Stop allowing morons to control debate in this country!

[Hansel]

54. Unequivocal, strong and decisive.

It's what people want from their leaders.

[DissedByBush]

63. I like the pink triangle

I'm sure you know that's what the Nazis used to mark homosexuals before they were murdered simply for being who they were.

I hope you also know that murdering homosexuals is the policy in five Muslim-run countries, and is harshly punished in many others. It used to be a death penalty offense in Iraq and Afghanistan too, but we stopped that. What the grotesque Fred Phelps wishes we had, they already have.

These people have the right to build their center, but we the freedom-loving people have a right to keep an eye on them to make sure their brand of intolerance doesn't seep into our society. It's been hard enough fighting against the Christian right-wingers.

At least the wingers won't kill me for being an atheist. Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGmOpVrYJ5Q

Around 1:17, "If they knew here that I am an atheist, or an ex-Muslim, I would definitely be executed."

This isn't some backwoods tribe. This is the center of Islam, Mecca.

[ronnie624]

80. Therefore the constitution doesn't apply to Muslims in the U.S.? n/t

[DissedByBush]

95. It absolutely does. They have every right to build.

But they have no moral ground on which to complain about protests against it.

[Alameda]

128. What part of Saudi does not represent all Muslims do you not get?

[No Elephants]

135. Same moral ground to complain as any other Community center.

They will not be excluding anyone, nor do they decide what goes on in other countries. Many are born here. A percentage are African Americans, descended from slaves. Others are African Americans, descended from Africans. Those who are immigrants left other countries. They have no more leverage over what goes on in those countries than you or I do--and probably never did. You may as well blame me for DADT and DOMA.

[6000eliot]

84. I do know it, and I recognize the irony of being put in the position

of defending a religion that often doesn't recognize my right to exist. But that is not an argument against their freedom of belief, and if it was, it could also be used against Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, etc. On edit, the Nazis were Christians, after all.

[No Elephants]

141. Props to you. Dissed by Bush, on .the other hand, seems to confuse Muslim Americans

with the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia. Please see, for example, Reply 135.

[DissedByBush]

146. The greatest test of American Muslim tolerance is being proposed

By the people who want to put a gay bar next to the center that caters to gay Muslims.

I can't wait to see the reaction. It's a free country, right? That's what they've been saying in defense of building the center.

[jwirr]

56. Thank you Al. Once again you are standing for our values.

[Cali_Democrat]

57. Thank you Senator Franken

K&R

[Swagman]

60. and 'near' is the right word. Not 'at'.

[Kurovski]

69. K&R. (nt)

[unkachuck]

70. you're a good man, Al Franken....n/t

[patrick t. cakes]

72. Spineless Dems....

Unfortunately, Gov. Pat Quinn (D-IL), who shared the stage with Franken at the event, came out against the mosque on the same day. “I think we should be sensitive to people on Planet Earth in these special places whether its Auschwitz, Pearl Harbor or Ground Zero, that they not be subject to political controversy that could cause great harm,” he said.

so people who practice the Islamic faith are comparable to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan? Disgusting.

[totodeinhere]

74. He didn't say that Muslims are comparable to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

He said that ground zero is a special place. To say that places no aspersions on Muslims one way or the other. You are putting words in his mouth to put forward your own agenda. Many Democrats, not just Quinn, oppose that location for the project. Of course, you would never know that from reading DU.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_us/us_mosque_divided_democrats

[Hissyspit]

77. And they have no justifiable reason for opposing it.

"Special place" Yeah, so what?

Yeah, it's a special place. A place that's had another mosque nearby for years. A place for HEALING by standing up for the First Amendment. A place for not falling for base instincts and giving in to ignorance. A place for not giving bin Laden a propaganda win by being exactly who he says he thinks we are. A place to to show we believe in our grand ideals.

There is NO justification for opposing the community center that is not based in ignorance or bigotry. Therefore he absolutely did equate them.

[totodeinhere]

82. I don't follow your logic.

How does there being no justification for opposing the project mean that Governor Quinn equated Muslims to Nazis and Japanese Militarists? It just doesn't follow. In fact, it would be quite plausible to call ground zero a "special place" and at the same time support the building of the center at it's proposed location.

I really do believe that reasonable people can disagree about this. I respect your passion over this issue, but in no way would I entertain the notion that Howard Dean is either ignorant or a bigot. And some of the other Democrats who might not approach this issue in the same way that you do are not bigots either. Of course Gingrich and Palin and that crowd are bigots. We all know that. They are exploiting this issue, but that doesn't mean that everyone else is.

[patrick t. cakes]

79. dog whistle

you read what you want into it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

81. now that is what is needed!!! a REAL stand against the bigoted hysteria!!

[Honeycombe8]

87. It's not bigotry. Name calling and ethic baiting doesn't help. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

96. if it is not bigotry - then let's treat this Sufi-Muslim Community Center the same as if it was

Anglican or Jewish or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist or Pentecostal Holiness or whatever.

America either stands for freedom of religion or it doesn't. America either treats all of its citizens and all of its communities equally or it doesn't.

I'll grant that some Democratic politicians are simply caving into fear and some of this BATSHIT CRAZINESS is simply media whipped up hysteria rather that raw bigotry - but it is irrational hysteria whipped up with the force of bigotry:

Who will stand up to the GOP's war on Islam?

If we don't stop the hysteria soon, bin Laden will score one of his biggest propaganda victories yet

By Gene Lyons

snip:

Regardless of how hard they try to disguise it, if only from themselves, those who would forbid the project express an essentially tribal view of Americanism specifically repudiated by the U.S. Constitution. "Is there any reason to oppose the mosque that isn't bigoted, or demagogic, or unconstitutional?" asks Michael Kinsley. "None that I've heard or read. "Make that two of us. Regardless of motive, it’s all about "prohibiting the free exercise" of somebody else’s religion. The End.

Actually, I’d go further. Are there any arguments against the project that don’t also violate the elementary distinction between "some vs. all" we were all supposed to learn in sixth grade? None that I’ve seen. Broadly speaking, the loftier the rhetoric the more craven the appeal to primitive concepts like the collective guilt of the world’s 1.4 billion Muslims for 9/11, a deranged act of mass murder committed by a tiny heretical sect.

snip:

Walking the neighborhood, a New York Daily News reporter recently took note of the Pussycat Lounge, a strip joint two blocks from ground zero, and the Thunder Lingerie and Peep Show. Also Off Track Betting facilities, along with "17 pizza shops, 18 bank branches, 11 bars, 10 shoe stores and 17 separate salons" offering what’s euphemistically called "bikini waxing." Evidently, not everybody understood it was all sacred ground until Republicans decreed it.

Regardless, now that the issue’s joined, President Obama’s stuck with it. Insulting our Muslim allies and giving Osama bin Laden a huge propaganda victory by making the struggle against terrorism appear to be a war against Islam -- exactly as he claims -- would be a strategic disaster.


read the full article on salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zero_mosque/index.html?story=/opinion/feature/2010/08/18/gop_islam_war&source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Not%20Premium%29_7_30_110

And some people have simply been misled and tricked into believing a bunch of nonsense:

How the "ground zero mosque" fear mongering began
By Justin Elliott

To a remarkable extent, a Salon review of the origins of the story found, the controversy was kicked up and driven by Pamela Geller, a right-wing, viciously anti-Muslim, conspiracy-mongering blogger, whose sinister portrayal of the project was embraced by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post.

A group of progressive Muslim-Americans plans to build an Islamic community center two and a half blocks from ground zero in lower Manhattan. They have had a mosque in the same neighborhood for many years. There's another mosque two blocks away from the site. City officials support the project. Muslims have been praying at the Pentagon, the other building hit on Sept. 11, for many years.

In short, there is no good reason that the Cordoba House project should have been a major national news story, let alone controversy. And yet it has become just that, dominating the political conversation for weeks and prompting such a backlash that, according to a new poll, nearly 7 in 10 Americans now say they oppose the project. How did the Cordoba House become so toxic, so fast?



Here's a timeline of how it all happened:


•Dec. 8, 2009: The Times publishes a lengthy front-page look at the Cordoba project. "We want to push back against the extremists," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the lead organizer, is quoted as saying. Two Jewish leaders and two city officials, including the mayor's office, say they support the idea, as does the mother of a man killed on 9/11. An FBI spokesman says the imam has worked with the bureau. Besides a few third-tier right-wing blogs, including Pamela Geller's Atlas Shrugs site, no one much notices the Times story.

Dec. 21, 2009: Conservative media personality Laura Ingraham interviews Abdul Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan, while guest-hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox. In hindsight, the segment is remarkable for its cordiality. "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," Ingraham says of the Cordoba project, adding at the end of the interview, "I like what you're trying to do.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins

[deacon]

85. Al's great. I gotta say though it's surfacing to the top that our media is this country's

worst enemy. They refuse to get down to the nitty gritty - all they like to do is fire people up for their own benefit.

[Honeycombe8]

86. It's not just conservatives. Most people in the country question the location.

It's disgraceful that some are trying to make political hay out of the issue.

[krabigirl]

105. And actually, even some conservatives, as you know, aren't against this.

[Amaril]

138. Really?

It's disgraceful that people are speaking up for the rights of a minority???

[Honeycombe8]

151. Everyone has rights. Not just the leaders of the center/mosque.

The remaining millions in the country have a right to speak out, when they think something may not be right.

It's a shame the leaders of the center/mosque have taken the harsh position that they have, which is to remain silent and not even attempt to ease legitimate concerns. This matter could have easily been put to rest with a little caring, concern, discussion, and reassurances. That they remain silent is ... well, that's pretty odd. Makes a person wonder why. Something to hide? Maybe not. But maybe. No one knows.

BTW...no one is questioning the legal right to build the center/mosque at that location.

[No Elephants]

143. Got a link? (U.S population is about 310,040,456). And who is "trying to make political hay

out of this issue" in your opinion? RW, ginning it up in hopes of saving their idea bankrupt party in November? Or folks like big Al, arguing against bigotry and for decency?

In any event, the only ones truly against this are bigots or sheeple, or bigoted sheeple.

Islam has over 1.4 billion adherents. 19 attacked the world trade center, and for reasons having nothing to do with the Muslim religion. And, in any event, a mosque has always been 4 blocks away from the world trade center. Still is. this is media pot stirring, Republican cynicism and knee jerk bigotry.

Well, that's redundent. there's no such thing as thoughtful bigotry,.

[Honeycombe8]

149. Both sides. RW sheeple, and LW sheeple. RW-no mosque! LW-those against it are bigots!

There are those who are adamantly against the location of the mosque. And of those, there are RW "leaders" trying to make political hay of it.

Then there are those who are adamantly FOR the location of the mosque, calling anyone who disagrees with them "bigots." And of those, there are LW "leaders" trying to make political hay of it.

Then there are those who question the location, and wonder why there's not a serious discussion going on between the center/mosque leaders and concerned citizens (or appointed leaders). Some are concerned that the center/mosque is being funded by people from outside the country, possibly connected with Hamas or other terrorist organizations, for various purposes. Scoff at that, if you want. But some are genuinely concerned. Some are also concerned with the Islamic religion's past history of building mosques at sites where they scored some victory. Easy to put those concerns to rest, but the center/mosque leaders refuse to discuss it. They take the position that they have the right to build it (they do), and that's that. So the concerns continue to percolate.

I fall in that third category. I agree pretty much with what Howard Dean said on the issue. Except I don't necessarily think the center/mosque has to be ready to move its location. But I do think it would help ease legitimate concerns if they'd simply reveal whether Hamas or other terrorist organizations are funding the center/mosque, and reassure the country that this is not a center/mosque built as a victory site. They could consider making one floor of the center devoted to other religions, perhaps. They say it's a center whose purpose is to foster the bringing together of the different religions and peoples. So far, it isn't having that effect at all. Just the opposite.

[Douglas Carpenter]

152. here is the FAQ sheet which does answer most of those questions

BTW: I am not a Muslim or in anyway associated with this organization - or know even one single person in anyway connected to this organization - since someone asked me that yesterday. I'm not even on their mailing list. But I would encourage you to imagine what if this was a Jewish Community Center and they were being bombarded with endless accusatory questions with strong anti-Semitic overtones like - "How do we know this isn't just a way to cheat and trick people out of their money?" Is there one single person who would claim that was not bigoted and anti-Semitic? Now imagine these kind of accusations were being tossed around in a hysterical tone all over the national media.

Frequently Asked Questions

The Proposed Community Center Project in Lower Manhattan
FAQs

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/frequently-asked-questions

Who is organizing this project? What is the relationship of the Cordoba Initiative to this project?

The Cordoba Initiative, of which Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is founder and chairman, is a multi-faith non-profit organization whose aim is to improve relations between different communities, and in particular between the Muslim world and the United States of America.

The proposed community center in Lower Manhattan will serve as a platform for multi-faith dialogue. It will strive to promote inter-community peace, tolerance and understanding locally in New York City, nationally in America, and globally.


Daisy Khan is a board member of Cordoba Initiative and also the Executive Director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA). ASMA is committed to helping Muslim women and youth to improving their lives within their communities through projects on contemporary issues.

Both Imam Feisal and Ms. Khan are strong advocates for multi-faith collaboration. They share a vision of a community center in which various religious leaders and civil society will work closely together to foster community cohesion and advance the shared goals of moderation, peace and understanding. Through programs offered by the Cordoba Initiative and ASMA, the community center will crystallize this shared vision of peace into bricks and mortar.

Why are you building a mosque at Ground zero?

The community center is not located at Ground Zero.

It will be a multi-floor community center open to all New Yorkers, much like a YMCA or Jewish Community Center (JCC) with a designated prayer space (mosque) in one area to serve the needs of the large existing community of American Muslims in the neighborhood.

The community center will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their culture or background, will find a place of learning, arts and culture, and, most importantly, a community center guided by the universal values of all religions in their truest form – peace, compassion, generosity, and respect for all.

Why did you choose this site so close to Ground Zero?

We were always close to the World Trade Center. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has been the Imam of a mosque twelve blocks from the Twin Towers for the last 27 years.

Who is funding the community center?

No funds for this project have been raised to date. A project of this scale will require very diverse fundraising sources, including individuals from all faiths and beliefs –who are committed to peace and understanding. We expect that our sources of funding will include individuals of different religions, charitable organizations, public funds, institutional and corporate sponsors.

You will need a lot of contributors. Who will review your donor list?

The New York Charities Bureau and the US Treasury Department will review the donor list to assure that all funding sources are vetted to their satisfaction and approved. In addition, our Trustees and Advisory Board will be comprised of a multi-faith group of distinguished individuals who will ensure that the community center stays true to its objectives of peace, tolerance and understanding between all.

How did you purchase the building?

SoHo Properties, a New York real estate development firm based in lower Manhattan, acquired the property a couple of years ago. Sharif El Gamal, owner of SoHo Properties, is a member of Imam Feisal’s lower Manhattan congregation that has been in the neighborhood for a number of years.

Why so close to Ground Zero?

We have been residents and neighbors who are deeply committed to the neighborhood for the last 27 years. American Muslims have been peacefully living, working and worshipping in this neighborhood and were also terribly affected by the horrific events of 9/11.

As Muslim New Yorkers and Americans we want to help and be part of rebuilding our neighborhood in lower Manhattan. It is important for all of us to show the world that Americans will not be frightened or deterred by the extremist forces of hatred.

Isn’t this insensitive given that the 9/11 attackers were Muslims?

The events of 9/11 were horrific. What happened that day was terrorism, and it shames us that it was cloaked in the guise of Islam. It was inhumane, un-Islamic and is indefensible regardless of one’s religious persuasion. Not only Americans but also all Muslims are threatened by the lies and actions being perpetrated by these self-serving extremists and their perverted view of Islam.

The community center will be a platform to amplify the voices of the overwhelming majority of Muslims whose love for America and commitment to peace gets drowned out by the actions of a few extremists. It will become a platform where the voices of those who resist religious extremism and terrorism can be amplified and celebrated.

But, why not build it a little bit farther away? Let’s say a mile away?

No one should be driven out of his or her own neighborhood – especially for religious reasons. It is unconstitutional and un-American. Our congregation has been peacefully worshipping in this area for almost three decades. Our neighbors have encouraged us to remain here and the City and the Community Board have encouraged our continued presence here. The community has backed up their support by approving every resolution and challenge in the community center’s favor.

What about the 9/11 families? Don’t you see their pain?

Like all New Yorkers and Americans we were too devastated by 9/11. We share and respect the incredible pain and loss suffered by the victims of 9/11. We fully recognize their legitimate concerns and sensitivity to the community center. It shames us that extremists who profess to be Muslim perpetrated murder on such a horrific scale for political and financial gain in the name of Islam.

We look forward to actively engaging with leaders of the victims of 9/11 to respond to their concerns and obtain their support for our efforts.

Will the extremists take over the Community Center once it’s built?

Extremism on both sides is the danger – it’s what we’re working against. A community center that celebrates diversity and multi-faith collaboration is antithetical to the extremists’ worldview. This center will be a blow to all extremists.

In addition, the multi-faith Trustees and Board of Advisors will also help assure that our good intentions are not hijacked by extremist elements who are against our vision of peace, tolerance and understanding.

Are you not building a project that will be one of conquest? Isn’t this a victory for the extremists?

The community center is opposed to religious extremists of all faiths. It demonstrates that Americans cannot be intimidated and will join together to promote moderation, peace and understanding when challenged.

The extremists will not find victory or comfort in a community center whose sole purpose is to bring peace through multi-faith collaboration and celebrate the diversity of views in our world.

This center is an important step towards building understanding and peace. Just as we strive to understand the faith and traditions of our neighbors, this center will invite others to learn about the true nature of Islam. A religion of peace, tolerance, and understanding.


So what will happen at this community center?

The community center will meet the needs of all New Yorkers with six programmatic areas:
1. Culture and Arts - 500-seat auditorium, exhibition)
2. Education - Lecture hall, conference rooms, library, classrooms,)
3. Social Cohesion,(cooking classes, senior citizens space, child care, banquet hall)
4. Religion + Healing - Muslim prayer space, Contemplation and reflection area, 9/11 victims memorial
5. Global Engagement - Mapping studies on trends in the Muslim world, resources on good governance and principles of liberal democracy, women’s empowerment issues, youth development, countering religious extremism.
6. Recreation - pool, gym, medical education and wellness programs

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Clearing up false charges made against Imam Feisal:

“On 60 Minutes, the Imam said that American Foreign policy is an accessory to terrorism”

The ‘60 Minutes’ piece was completely incorrect as the statement was edited out of context. In the full interview, Imam Feisal describes the mistake the CIA made in the 1980s by financing Osama Bin Laden and strengthening the Taliban. This view is widely shared within the US and the US Government today, and Imam Feisal underlines the importance of not supporting “friends of convenience” who may in the future become our enemies. This is common sense.

Imam Feisal is an American who takes his role as a citizen-ambassador very seriously. He is frequently requested by the US State Department to tour Muslim majority and western countries to speak about the merits of American ideals and Muslim integration into Western society. At the request of the FBI after 9/11, he provided cultural training to hundreds of FBI agents.

“Imam Feisal has not condemned Hamas”

Imam Feisal has always condemned terrorism (see his 1995 book “What’s Right With Islam is What’s Right with America” and his hundreds of speeches). Hamas is both a political movement and a terrorist organization. Hamas commits atrocious acts of terror. Imam Feisal has forcefully and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, including those committed by Hamas, as un-Islamic. In his book, he even went so far as to include a copy of the Fatwa issued after 9/11 by the most respected clerics of Egypt defining the 9/11 attack as an un-Islamic act of terror and giving permission to Muslims in the U.S. armed forces to fight against those who committed this act of terror. Imam Feisal included this in his book to prove that terrorism must be fought even if Muslims have to fight fellow Muslims to stop it.

“Imam Feisal is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood because his book was translated into Arabic by a publisher with ties to the Brotherhood.”

Both charges are false. Imam Feisal has no connection whatsoever to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Arabic translation rights to his book were arranged by the Arabic book program at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, United States of America.

“Imam Feisal is a member of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, which is a funder of the flotilla that attempted to deliver aid to residents of Gaza.”

Imam Feisal has never been a member of this group. Several years ago, Imam Feisal was invited to Malaysia, the most moderate Islamic country in the world, to participate in a Peace Conference sponsored by the Perdana Peace Group. He was one of the hundreds of speakers present. He has no political, advisory or business affiliation of any nature with the Perdana group. A photo of Imam Feisal was taken at the conference, and this has been used to “prove” his membership in the Perdana Global Peace Organization, but the allegation is false. Because of the controversy surrounding Perdana, we have requested the Perdana Group to remove the photo of him from their publicity.

“Imam Feisal wants to establish a ‘shariah state’ in America.”

Actually, quite the contrary. Imam Feisal believes that all Muslims must adhere to the laws of the land in which they reside, including in America. This is a basic tenet of Islam. He has repeatedly stated that America is already one of the most Shariah compliant countries in the world because of America’s adherence to our Bill of Rights and because it allows members of all religions, including Muslims, to practice their faith freely. In other words, Imam Feisal believes that Muslims practice Shariah when they fast, pray, give to charity and uphold the commandments of protecting life, liberty, dignity, the pursuit of happiness and the right to freedom of worship.

“ Why isn’t Imam Feisal currently in New York? Isn’t he supporting this?”

Imam Feisal travels the world in his life-long endeavor to bring the message of moderation, peace and understanding to both Western and Islamic countries.

Currently, he is in Malaysia working on projects designed to counter radical Islamist ideology within the region and the world. As the leading moderate Muslim country in the world, Malaysia is strongly interested in developing such initiatives and has requested Imam Feisal's assistance in their formulation.

Following this, Imam Feisal has been requested by the US State Department to make an extended tour, sponsored by the US Government, of Islamic countries throughout the Middle East to further his moderate Islamic message of peace and understanding with scholars, religious leaders and political leaders in the region.

His absence should not be construed in any way as a diminution of his deep commitment and concern regarding the issues surrounding the community center.

It is unfortunate that some events related to the center transpired during his extended travels but he has full confidence in his staff and and partners, including the team at SoHo Properties, and Daisy Khan, Executive Director of ASMA and one of the founders of Park51 – to carry on in his absence.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank You!

We wish to thank the following organizations for their support:

September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, J Street, The Arab American Family Support Center, CLAL–The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, Auburn Seminary, American Jewish Committee, Cause New York, Chautauqua Institute, Congregation B'nai Jeshurun, Faith House Manhattan, Friends of the Arava Institute, Interfaith Youth Core, Intersections, Interfaith Center of New York, The Interfaith Alliance, Jewish Community Center in Manhattan, Lutheran Seafarers and International House, New York Buddhist Church, Odyssey Networks, New Seminary, Out of Cordoba, Averros and Miamonides, NY interfaith Disaster, One Voice, One Spirit, St. Bartholomew's Church, Same Difference Interfaith Alliance, The Church of St. Paul and St. Andrew, Tanenbaum Center, The Foundation for Ethnic Understanding, Trinity Wall Church, The Healing of the Nations Foundation, The Migration Policy Institute, Union Theological Seminary, St. Peters Church, UN Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Asia and the Pacific,

For more information, contact

[e-mail]

link:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/frequently-asked-questions

[Honeycombe8]

155. What news source is that? Afraid to open it; possible viruses.

It would be easy to make up answers and FAQs. It's been repeated by leaders over and over, on both sides, that the funders are unknown. I doubt that this site has "secret answers" that are legitimate. But if you could clear up what site that is...is that the official site for the proposed center/mosque?

As for the prior scary statements by the famous leader of the center/mosque, I haven't paid much attention to those. If you notice, I didn't mention those in my post. I think those are the sorts of things being used by the RW "leaders" and its sheeple, but which thinking people know don't amount to a hill of beans. You can twist and quote out of context many things a person says. I'm always suspicious of that.

[Douglas Carpenter]

156. actually that is from the Cordoba Initiative website

this is the link to their homepage:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/

Christiane Amanpour did an interview on her program, "This Week" with Daisy Khan, the wife of Imam Feisal and Rabbi Joy Levitt from the Jewish Community Center of Manhattan. They also discuss some of these questions:

youtube video on the DU Forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x497675

and on youtube itself:

Run time: 13:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE_XnmQRDPA

and here is the transcript:

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-karzai-khan-levitt/story?id=11454631&page=3

.

[Honeycombe8]

150. What you say in your post is called discussion. That's what's not happening

because the center/mosque leaders refuse to ease concerns. That's why the concerns are growing.

No point in your trying to discuss it....there is no discussion going on among those who count. It's simply....silence (implying we're going ahead because we have the legal right...and we don't care what anyone thinks about it) by center/mosque leaders.....and expressions of concerns by those on the other side (except for some RW extremists who simply wouldn't be satisfied with anything, except a total non-build of the center/mosque).

[Odin2005]

89. That's my senator!

[BetterThanNoSN]

93. dig a lil deeper

"It's not just conservatives. Most people in the country question the location"

Yes, but WHO turned this into a political public opinion issue and for what reasons? Do we ever ask how these issues get elevated to a national level?
Remember Terri Schiavo? How did that by chance get elevated into a national political issue thus polarizing the country? It came out of Fla Republican Mel Martinezs' office because they thought there was political gain to be had.
There are hundreds of these topics that are polarizing. And with election season here, now its scary Muslims, entitlement using illegal immigrants, Muslim presidents, scary blacks obstructing voting rights, Marxist, Socialist, blah, blah, blah....

[Blue Owl]

106. Finally -- some fucking sanity

Thanks Al for making Minnestoa proud, as usual!

[Turborama]

115. Rec'd earlier, Kicking to help keep it at the top. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

120. Muslim point guards? OMG! How will Beck counter that? Or Bill O'Lielly?

They'll get a Christian center!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[Laelth]

125. k&r for the Great Al Franken. n/t

-Laelth

[USA_1]

148. Native American Museum

NAM is in Washington DC which is the capitol of the people who committed a holocaust against Native Americans. Nobody from the far right objects so what's the big deal about the mosque?