Michael Moore praises suspected WikiLeaks source

[kpete]

Source: Associated Press


Michael Moore praises suspected WikiLeaks source

By DAVID DISHNEAU
Associated Press Writer


HAGERSTOWN, Md. (AP) -- Michael Moore, the Oscar-winning filmmaker, will contribute $5,000 to help defend the Army private suspected of leaking classified documents to an Internet whistle-blower from serving time in prison.

A champion of liberal and left-wing causes, Moore told The Associated Press in a telephone interview he also hopes to make the public understand that Pfc. Bradley Manning exposed what Moore called "war crimes."

"He did a courageous thing and he did a patriotic thing," Moore said.

Manning, 22, faces up to 52 years in prison if convicted of downloading classified material and passing it to an unauthorized person while working as an intelligence analyst in Iraq.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WIKILEAKS_MICHAEL_MOORE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[fascisthunter]

1. well, here's a rec to counter the unreccers who would rather live

in a police state

[NorthCarolina]

2. The truth will set us free!!! eom

[Pavulon]

7. From what? The ethos of everything is "free"

starts to suck when it is pointed at you. Governments keep secrets.

Should the following be pubic record:

List of operatives in Iran, N. Korea, etc? In the past when these were compromised the governments killed them outright.
Process to construct W88 thermonuclear warhead, including g code to cut the metals and explosives.
Process to guide 8 warheads to independent targets using multiple guidance sources.
Location of all US Nuclear Weapons and procedures to arm fuse and fire them.
Process to formulate VX nerve agent.
Access to smallpox genetic sequence and pathogen.

Access to telemetry and control of GPS system.

All your personal data, every person you ever met, had sex with, all the drugs you ever did, your salary, ssn, bank balance, and the list of every internet site you have ever visited?

Thought not.

[go west young man]

13. Manning didn't release info on any of those false flags you provided.

Instead he provided evidence of war crimes by our own government. By doing so he is a true patriot as
his actions will lead to the betterment of the United States in the long run. Your vision is short sighted in this regard.
In war it really comes down to which side your on. I think someone like Manning is much more a solid soldier
than someone who just follows orders. Especially when those orders are unjust and lead to innocent's dying.
I wish you'd spend as much time in your posts debating the war crimes as you do going round and round about
state secrets and how guilty you think Manning is. I believe most of us here understand your MO by this time.

[Pavulon]

14. War crime is a technical legal term. Because you dont like something

does not make it a war crime. Manning is guilty, his chat logs are enough to convict him. Shooting civilians by accident in a war is regrettable, but not illegal.

Because you dont like the war does not make it a war crime. I dont like the war but it is quite legal and is supported by two branches of the US government to this day.

I am on the side of they rule of law. That law means that the President can order troops to war, the congress can fund the war. That does NOT allow a 22 year old kid looking to get a rep with the hacker community to steal classified information and post it on the internet.

BTW there is nothing in the documents that change the course of the war. Except for the names of those afghans, like may change for them.

[go west young man]

16. Since you like hypothetical scenarios so much. Here's one for ya.

It's 1945 and your a German soldier who just gave info to the allies on where Hitler's troops will be
on the day of the D-day invasion. Are you a good soldier or a bad soldier? A traitor who should be shot?
The answer is it depends on what side your on. The German soldier would be on the good side. Same as
Manning. He helped America by exposing the real enemy. That enemy being lies, deception, and war
crime's that tarnish America's image. Government secrecy is a ruse often used to cover up crimes. We
need more good soldiers to get back our terrible image. Just going along when the war is unjust does
not a good soldier make.

Also you seem to contradict yourself. In one instance you see war crimes as just a technical legal term
while in another you say killing civilians is regrettable but not illegal. What is illegal then? You justify
any action of the state it seems yet you have no respect for basic human rights. I believe that your
constant vilifying of Manning as "a 22 year old kid looking to get a reputation with the hacker community"
is just constant slander. Slander with a nationalist bent attached to it. There are many ways to be a true
patriot.

[Pavulon]

17. Nope, those logs between him and Lamo

will be used by the DOJ to convict him and jail him until he dies. That will be public record. He will find a nice new home in Florence Colorado and he will die there.

One way to be a patriot would be passing real evidence to the FBI or Senate Armed Service Committee, in the case of a real crime they are then compelled to pursue it.

Just because you dont like the war does not mean you can dump classified data. Dont like the war, you get to vote, elect people who will stop it.

If you want to take it further you can fly from Newark to Pakistan and hop a truck to theatre, do what manning did and join the other side.

Now he is on suicide watch, his life would be easier if he was executed as a traitor. Now he can spend the next 60 years rotting away.

[go west young man]

25. Do you mean compelled as in the way Patrick Fitzgerald

was compelled to seek justice for Cheney/Libby/Rove leaking a covert CIA operatives name?
That trust you have in the government is ridiculous at best. As far as electing people who will stop
the war and pursue the truth I bet you don't realize the Obama Administration upholds and agrees
that the Wilson's case should not be given justice. As far as the Armed Services Committee looking
into covert matters more often than not they are complicit in the crimes the U.S. engages in. All
the while benefiting financially from the war machine. You must have been living under a rock
for the last 10 years if you think there is real oversight and justice in the government these days.
One final note. Military Brigs always place high profile people in solitary confinement and place
them on "suicide watch" and they also declare them a flight risk. Standard bullshit protocol.

[Pavulon]

38. When I step in dog shit, it is not a cheney problem..

when some little ass steals classified docs to impress hackers and admits it in a chat he is just a stupid ass.

He will be next door neighbors with Pollard in no time..

[dotymed]

27. "The British are coming"

too bad they didn't catch paul revere. That scumbag traitor.:sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

41. Or Pollard, or Hanssen boy what fucking heros. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

47. Or the photos from Abu Ghraib

Or the photos from Abu Ghraib....

Yup, f*cking heroes, all of 'em.

[Pavulon]

49. What do photos legally given to chain of command have to do with theft?

those were not classified.

[sabrina 1]

70. Excellent post ~ I couldn't agree more. It is disturbing to see

someone so nationalistic that they cannot see the difference between right and wrong.

[boppers]

22. I'd be fine with all of that being public.

Information does not equal crime.

Heck, if such data *was* public, I'd guess our society would be a lot more tolerant.

[Pavulon]

40. Now how would placing the recipie for VX nerve gas in the public domain

be good thing? How does "our society" benefit from exposing the means to its complete destruction to the world. riddle me..

[GliderGuider]

34. All the information you list is already available to anyone with the means and motive to acquire it.

All that secrecy ever does is breed deceit. I don't think deceit is a positive human value, so I don't support secrecy in any form by any organization. And yes, my personal life is an open book including who I've slept with, the drugs I've done, my salary and the web sites I visit.

[Pavulon]

39. Great, and you may or may not believe in Jesus. But

those things will stay secret and if you use secret information in am manner that will result in the death of others someone may just kill you.

And no the G code for carving up explosive lenses is not public.

[GliderGuider]

46. I'm not sure I understand your whole post, but I get your drift.

You think secrecy is A Good Thing. You have lots of company in that position. Most of the Military-Industrial-Intelligence Complex agrees with you.

I don't.

My point is that whether or not the "G code for carving up explosive lenses" is public or not makes not a whit of difference. The people who wish to acquire it and implement it generally have the means to do so, and its putative "secrecy" is irrelevant. The Rooskies have the bomb, right? How did they get it, if it was a secret? Secrecy really doesn't matter much on that level.

Generally I prefer level playing fields. That means that if there's a bomb to be had, everybody should have the opportunity to acquire one. As Robert Heinlein said, "An armed society is a polite society", and IMO that applies to global MADness as well.

To the aggrieved C-130 crews who dislike being shot at, I have a couple of things to say. The first is that if you don't want to be shot at, don't fly C-130s in combat zones. The second is that the race between defensive and offensive tactics is historically a dead heat, with no side maintaining the advantage for long. The implication is that secrecy on one side or the other is ephemeral, and doing away with it really wouldn't change the balance of the equation much.

I am anti-secrecy because I believe the deceit it breeds is far more harmful to the general well-being than anything that would result from knowledge being freely available. Of course, I don't see life as a zero-sum game, which is the only context in which secrecy makes any sense at all. I am also implacably opposed to military, intelligence and security organizations, along with those aspects of government that require and promote them.

[Pavulon]

50. Then you may find the choas of the Sudan a warm welcome

many places in Africa are a shining example of what the lack of an organized military and police system render. The us is 30 years ahead of the world in aerospace.

There are lots of ways to pick your opinion apart, such as asking for a country where it actually functions, there are none.

The soviets stole the bomb because it was cheaper than doing the work. Being a pacifist is a respectable position and I will not answer with the usual responses that elude to the need to protect that right with force.

However unless EVERYONE plays by that rule of open books no one will. Certainly not countries that have invested billions in systems that are classified.

[GliderGuider]

51. Probably not, in much the same way as you wouldn't like living in Orwell's "1984".

I was born here in the West, however. If I'd been born in Sudan I'd probably think a lot more favourably about it.

"The Soviets stole the bomb". Of course they did. That's the point, they wanted it, and all the secrecy and classification in the world didn't stop them. "Security through Secrecy" is nothing but a comforting fiction, worthy of Orwell himself. Chaos and secrecy are two different things. I didn't say I don't like order, I love it. I just don't think that secrecy is the way to achieve it.

[Pavulon]

53. And the Soviets being a nation state would not use it (like the chinese)

because they like their culture unvaporized. Non state actors do not work in the MAD model.

Everyone has secrets. You do not purchase a car or home by telling the seller your price points. If they know this information you are at a disadvantage.

If you were born there depending on your ethnicity you would be a dead body no one gives a shit about.

Posting information like your mothers maiden name and ssn, home address and other information will harm you. Just like posting where photorecon satellites are at any given time and whose phones we are tapping would harm us in preventing people from blowing up places like Bali or the USS Cole.

[GliderGuider]

56. Regardless of my ethnicity

at some point I'll be a dead body no one gives a shit about. As will we all.

I'd like to take a moment to talk about why we are so different in our views.

One thing that distinguishes us is that I don't see the world as consisting of opposites -- good vs. bad, us vs. them, advantage vs. disadvantage, or even self vs. other. Instead, I see the world as a matrix of interactions, where actors and actions have no intrinsic value. Things, people and events simply ARE, and any value is assigned by the actors themselves in accordance with their personal needs or preferences at the moment. This is very different from the standard cultural view, where the notion of opposites is embedded to such an extent that the idea seems like an absolute truth to most of us.

Our culture (modern scientific culture, not just Western culture) teaches us a dualistic viewpoint from the moment we become aware that we are not our mothers. We are taught to see differences rather than similarities, separation instead of connection. This is why I referred to zero sum games in my earlier post -- most of us are are taught from the beginning that there are winners and losers in every transaction in life, and that my interests are axiomatically separate from yours. A look at any natural ecology demonstrates the untruth of this concept. Our culture teaches us that we are exempt from these natural rules of univesral interconnection, and the resulting separation of man from nature is mirrored in all our beliefs and behaviour.

The implications of adopting an outlook like mine are significant -- for example I don't feel that the death of individuals (even myself) is that big a deal, and I don't feel that I am separate from anything else in the universe. Even in this conversation you are not different from me -- to me you represent an aspect of myself. I believe that since there is no difference between you and me, between me and anyone else, the idea of keeping secrets from you seems as ridiculous as the idea of keeping secrets from myself.

I understand that most people don't see things like this, and I know that this all probably sounds pretty strange to you, but there it is. Neither of us is about to convince the other to change (which is fine because we are both playing the roles we have chosen in this dance of life), but it interesting to talk about our differences nonetheless.

[Pavulon]

61. And I admit this is one of the more interesting conversations here.

considering it is rational and well thought out. I see the world in problems to be solved. Its my profession and just how my brain is wired. I do NOT see all events as zero sum. I spend a large amount of time educating people and that would be win win for everyone (I get paid, they get to earn more).

If you look at the world as an enclosed system (like your brain and thoughts , emotions, etc) there is a balance point. The part of you brain that kicks out random inappropriate thoughts vs the part that tones down animal behavior into thought can be presented to the rest of the world.

While I understand conflict, and logic, at some point it must be restrained as does the part of the brain that would prefer to have sex and snort coke all day.

Is it a secret when you walk past an attractive (or unattractive person) and you "filter" your comments?

I do not like the idea of pointless secrecy to hide accountability but do not think "everything" that makes up a person or a nation should not be wide open.

Your perspective is original and I find that interesting.

Regards,
Pavulon

[GliderGuider]

64. Thanks, it's nice to move conversations past reflexive comments, even here on DU

You raise an interesting question about what to consider a secret. To me, a secret is information that would be useful to someone else that I deliberately withhold to achieve some advantage for myself. In that sense, not telling an attractive woman about my fantasies wouldn't be keeping a secret, because the knowledge wouldn't be useful to her. I might tell her I thought she was very attractive, if I felt I could do so in a way that would make her feel flattered rather than confronted.

In the case that prompted this thread the core question is, "Under what circumstances is it legitimate to spill the beans, and who gets to decide?" You say you don't like pointless secrecy to hide accountability. It is possible that Assange and Manning saw this situation in exactly that light. Manning's superiors had classified the information, turning what Manning did into a crime. However, was their unilateral decision to classify the information enough to make manninings actions a priori criminal? How would we know unless we geot to examine the information?

[SlingBlade]

3. Dirty Tricks ? Oh My, There goes that Change you can

believe in again , Huh.

[Tempest]

8. So you have no problem with classified intelligence being released?

That kind of information can get U.S. intelligence agents and sources killed.

[Forkboy]

9. So you have no problem with a war that's killed a bunch of innocent people?

A war that is ruining our economy, has killed our soldiers, has left thousands more with mental issues, and has made the U.S. less safe?

[KansDem]

10. Yeah, I had a problem with Bush/Cheney releasing Plame's name to the world...

...and look how far that went.

I wonder how many "U.S. intelligence agents and sources" were killed...

[The Drexel Dave]

11. hominids

are hominids.

The American, French, Muslim, labels are merely our own construct.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Bonobos crossed with chimps will be bonobos crossed with chimps, I always say...

And Yetis

[ProudDad]

58. Fine. Then the rest might get into some honest line of work

that might benefit humanity instead of maintain the bullshit perpetual war machine...

[fogonthelake]

4. thanks MM

[flyarm]

5. K&R and I believe I will also send money for this young mans defense!

I believe Manning is a very courageous young man!

Much, much more courageous than the much older supposedly more experienced Generals and Defense Dept and Pentagon war criminals,murderers, and liars!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

15. oh my

[racaulk]

18. !!!

:wow:

[Occulus]

19. Well, THAT was bold.

My goodness.

[kgnu_fan]

20. .

[newfie11]

21. How does a pfc get this kind of information

I must have missed that in all the news. If this stuff is top secret national security etc, how does a pfc get this much top secret info. Anyone??

[boppers]

23. How does a pfc get access like this? Crappy information security.

Even he recognized that it was absurd for him to have the level of access that he had.

http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATE+ManningLamo+Chat+Logs+Released+Lamo+Claims+Wikileaks+Betrayal/article18841.htm

---
(12:15:11 PM) bradass87: hypothetical question: if you had free reign over
classified networks for long periods of time... say, 8-9 months... and you
saw incredible things, awful things... things that belonged in the public
domain, and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC...
what would you do?
(12:16:38 PM) bradass87: or Guantanamo, Bagram, Bucca, Taji, VBC for that
matter...
(12:17:47 PM) bradass87: things that would have an impact on 6.7 billion
people
(12:21:24 PM) bradass87: say... a database of half a million events during
the iraq war... from 2004 to 2009... with reports, date time groups,
lat-lon locations, casualty figures... ? or 260,000 state department
cables from embassies and consulates all over the world, explaining how
the first world exploits the third, in detail, from an internal
perspective?
(12:22:49 PM) bradass87: the air-gap has been penetrated... =L
(12:23:19 PM) Adrian: how so?
(12:26:09 PM) Adrian: yt?
(12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well,
has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones
described... and been transferring that data from the classified networks
over the "air gap" onto a commercial network computer... sorting the data,
compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired
aussie who can't seem to stay in one country very long =L
---

(more at link)

Not only should he not have had that level of access, the monitoring systems to prevent him from transferring it *out* also failed.

[newfie11]

26. wow!!! Thanks for the info n/t

[PacerLJ35]

29. He was an Intel troop...

They are required to have a TS or higher. I'm not sure what his clearance level was...depended on his specific duties and required access.

[tavalon]

24. Bradley Manning is a patriot and a hero

A whistleblower and that is really good in a land that doesn't contain much really good.

[24601]

28. Will Michael serve Manning's sentence for him? n/t

[Hardrada]

31. The idea is to spring him, silly.

[24601]

37. The only thing silly is the idea he will be sprung. Anyone who has

ever been in the military knows that only a Presidential pardon or other executive clemency will spare him from doing time. A court martial doesn't care if he was teased as a boy or if his family's breakup was difficult for him. The Court Martial will look at the charges and how the facts support the elements of proof or not. If I was innocent there is no place I'd rather be tried than ina military court martial - and if I was guilty of the charge, there is no place I'd want to avoid more than a military court. And motive is not an element of proof, it's the intent that matters. The "why" isn't in play, only the "what".

[Pavulon]

42. Nope he is FUCKED. He will get a discharge and the DOJ will convict him

he will be sentenced and take up residency in Florence right next to Richard Reid and Robert Hanssen. They say that is a truly horrible place.

That is the hardest time in the US.

[24601]

43. I don't know why the military would give up jurisdiction - this was

done while he was on active duty with information from a military facility.

[Pavulon]

45. So the DOJ can try him in Federal Court and put him in Florence..

the end goal will be for him to serve his sentence in Florence ADX. It is the "most secure" facility and also the hardest time there is.

[24601]

52. I'll predict that he instead gets court-martialed and goes to the

Military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Not Florence, CO, but at the prisoners know how to make their beds properly.

[Pavulon]

54. Neither sounds like a fun place. (nt)

[Pavulon]

44. Wrong reply, was meant for the "spring him" comment...

he is going to a place where you dont hear the dogs bark..

[PacerLJ35]

30. Why most of this stuff was classified...

I'll start by saying I've been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan four times, mostly to Iraq. I'm familiar with the types of products that were released on Wikileaks...they are typically after action reviews and other operational reporting done by field units of various branches and missions. This type of information is kept to help commanders, analysts and others review operations to determine any trends and other useful information that can be gleaned from the daily operations of our units. What might seem mundane information to one person could be very valuable and useful to another agency, that is why this stuff is kept.

Now...why is it kept classified? I've heard lots of things...most people believe they are classified to avoid the public from knowing that we're committing war crimes. Indeed, some of them detail that civilians have died in combat actions. None that I've read about or heard about specifically detail purposeful killings of civilians...in other words, the civilian deaths are accidental and incidental to the operations. Tragic and horrendous is it may be, that does not amount to a war crime.

These reports are kept classified for other reasons, specifically to avoid spreading information out there that can be used and exploited by enemies (not just the Taliban, but any enemy of the US) on how we operate. Many of the reports detail US operational tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) used to defeat and react to the enemy threat. This might seem useless to you sitting in your living room, but to the bad guys out there, it gives a view into US operations that they cannot get...our view. Sure, they can watch how the battle unfolds, but they are doing so from their vantage point.

Case in point...I flew combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been shot at on a few occasions with shoulder launched IR missiles. We reacted to the attack and managed to defeat the missile. The bad guys on the ground could obviously see they missed, and they could even see some things we were doing...but they could not see how we manipulated our defensive systems or the specific tactics we employed to deny their shot. Unfortunately, we file what we did, what we saw and how it turned out through the intel community. If Assange releases Iraq documents, there's a good chance some of the engagements I was involved in would be among the thousands of documents he claims he has.

Worse, now anyone and everyone (the Taliban, al Qaeda, the Chinese, Iran...whoever) can read how a certain C-130 aircrew defeated a shoulder launched IR missile and thusly take those tactics into account. Likewise for the ground pounders...now people can get on that website and view exactly how the US employed their various assets to respond to an attack, or how they organized and conducted offensive operations and dealt with enemy threats as they appeared. And now those same bad guys can fine tune their tactics to counter ours.

The enemy is smart...they've already been watching what we do and adjusting their tactics in turn. Now we've given them the other pieces of the puzzle. This is why the DoD isn't very happy about the release of documents...and why I'm not a fan of Manning at all.

Michael Moore needs to stick to helping and promoting worthwhile causes, not the wholesale release of information to anyone with a computer regarding US operations.

[Hardrada]

32. Good points but on the other hand it did not take long

for the Allies to figure out Wehrmacht tactics once the actual fighting had begun in France. (And vice versa I am sure). It took the Romans one battle to figure out how to defeat the Macedonian phalanx.

[PacerLJ35]

36. Trust me, there are lots of things the bad guys don't know

And I'd prefer to keep it that way...

This is coming from a C-130 pilot who's been shot at plenty of times...and never been hit once. Our tactics are sound. I don't want some dude to release all our info on the internet, for not just insurgents to pour through, but also other potential adversaries.

[Hardrada]

55. I respect your service but hope we can at some point cease to

see so much of the world beyond our borders as adversarial. If we were not led by people who think nothing of throwing away the valuable lives of you and your comrades-in-arms we could have a better chance of a world of interrelationships and co-operation in such urgent matters as global warming and a shared quest for energy alternatives. Our corporate capitalist rulers short-sightedly and greedily waste our nations blood and treasure. You who serve are the blood. You who serve are a valuable part of our treasure and should be reserved for a better cause. As Siegfried Sassoon said of a fellow officer fallen on the Western Front in 1916: "Yes...and the War won't end for at least two years;/But we've got stacks of men...I'm blind with tears./Staring into the dark,Cheero!/ I wish they'd killed you in a decent show."

[PacerLJ35]

60. Right...

I agree with your overall sentiment of overhauling our foreign policy, but we still shouldn't be posting reports that detail our specific tactics and responses on the internet for all to read.

[ProudDad]

59. How about the f*ckin' US gets out of the empire business

and live within it's means...

Then you don't need a war machine that's bankrupting the country... Hmmm... :shrug:

[PacerLJ35]

63. What does that have to do with keeping specific TTPs secret?

In this instance I'm not arguing for or against the war...I'm saying that lauding this kid for dropping thousands of files which possibly (likely) includes details about US operational tactics, techniques and procedure is just plain stupid. Not just in reference to this war, but in general. Now China, Russia, (insert any country of your choice) can read about how we deal with threats and our specific TTPs. Not smart.

We all knew the war wasn't an easy, straight forward war. We all knew that civilians unfortunately get killed in the crossfire. And we all knew that the Taliban fights hit-and-run style which challenges our conventionally-minded force. So why go the extra step and say "hey, here are all these docs that detail what happened in specific battles and engagements".

[ProudDad]

66. And anyone who's paying attention

knows that it's all about war and occupation for the Empire...

10 Needed Steps for Obama to Start Dismantling America's Gigantic, Destructive Military Empire
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/147964

War is a Racket
Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient Major General Smedley D. Butler USMC, Retired

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


And it's corrupting our society...END THIS SHIT by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

[PacerLJ35]

67. You're talking politics...

Revealing the ins and outs of foreign policy is not the same thing as revealing small unit tactics and other things that should remain off the public realm.

Honestly...you think that revealing how my aircraft can defeat enemy shoulder-launched missiles is somehow helping you reform foreign policy? I don't. All it's doing is giving other nations that don't like us insight into how they can get around our tactics and technology.

[ProudDad]

68. The basic answer is

you shouldn't be allowed to take your fucking aircraft somewhere to kill someone for your Imperial masters' profits...

That's the BASIC answer to the 800 pound Gorilla in the room...

We shouldn't HAVE such a bloated war machine and national security state!!!

We should be acting like decent world citizens instead of raping occupiers...

Anything that gets the lesson through the thick heads of the clueless is a good idea to me... If it means Afghanistan III (first the British, then the Russians then the USAmericans) that's fine by me...

[PacerLJ35]

71. You're still talking national foreign policy...I'm talking about security of US tactics

The person/people that released this stuff (articles that describe specific US actions and tactics) have little affect on US foreign policy. The US Dept of State, the executive branch and the Congress are the ones who decide what this nation does. That has little to do with protecting US tactical procedures and techniques.

For what it's worth, my aircraft is more likely to deliver aid to Haiti or Pakistan rather than go somewhere and kill people. It's a C-130. So much for your assumptions.

[ProudDad]

69. Case in Point

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4514958

One more nail in the coffin of empire...

They "hate us for our freedom" -- yeah, right :puke:

[HEyHEY]

33. Why the fuck is this news?

[Blue_Tires]

35. ttt

[sabrina 1]

48. Good for him.

He's never afraid to take on controversial issues.

[John Kerry VonErich]

57. That's it??? $5000?!?

Dude, you can afford a ton more than that! To Moore, $5000 is chump change.

[defendandprotect]

62. k

[Vidar]

65. Thank you, Michael, & stay away from small planes.