Job moving offshore? Go back to school - report

[54anickel]

Uh, yeah OK. :eyes: They still fail to define these "new areas and skills" So is there a Master Degree available in "anything for a buck"?

http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire/2004/03/29/rtr1315405.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Education and entrepreneurship are the keys to offsetting the growing number of U.S. jobs being moved overseas, an expert on employment issues said Monday.

As more companies search for cheaper sources of labor, retraining American workers with new skills and the latest technology, particularly at the community college level, is the best way to keep the job market competitive, said John Challenger, chief executive of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, an international outplacement firm.

Workers with skills in new areas would find an easier time switching industries or even starting their own businesses, he said.

"As certain kinds of jobs dry up here, there is no reason to think that our talented workforce will not redeploy its skills in new directions and endeavors," Challenger said in a report.

[Imalittleteapot]

1. Lost your job? Find some money to go back to

school for some new skills (yet to be defined) and start a business, why don't you? Geez. What new areas are industries offering the unskilled?

[zbdent]

2. Become a Right-Wing talking head

Despite the "liberal media bias", there's an open market for them.

Just turn on any channel, any time of the day.

But don't ever get caught actually thinking about two contradictory statements by a Republican. That will get you canned ASAP.

[Sandpiper]

3. This is the new economy

Every 10 years or so, they ship your job overseas. Then you're expected to go out and learn a whole new set of job skills, so you can work at your next job for 10 years, then have it shipped overseas. And on and on it goes.

We started out as a manufacturing based economy, then we changed to an information based economy. Now it seems like we've turned into a retail/food service based economy.

[Warpy]

41. We started out as an agrarian economy

Then mining and manufacturing, and then...

The thing is that one's job is becoming obsolete at a faster and faster rate. Forcing people to go into debt to retrain for jobs which may or may not last a decade is not the answer (but we all knew that), especially since Federal funding was slashed by Idiot and people have to go into a LOT of debt to find another semiskilled or skilled job, which is likely to disappear before the debt is paid off.

Welcome to feudalism, folks. This is how they force us into debt and keep us there. When we owe them, they own us.

[polmaven]

4. Absolutely, Mr. (p)resident!

Now, can I refer all of my creditors to you for payment? My mortgage lender, my car lender, the electric company, the gas company, the local property tax clerk, etc. They all want to know who will pay them. May I have your personal account number, sir, so i can refer them there?

After all, I will prolly be only for 4 or 5 years, after all. ..Oh, wait, a Master's degree...oh, well, since I have just a high school diploma, that may take a while longer. Thanks for the support!

[NuttyFluffers]

22. amen.

all those stupid "go get retrained" retorts forget that you have to eat, sleep, and survive somewhere to go to school. and all that costs money. and without a decent paying job, or just plain 'a job,' all this "go get retrained" stuff is utter nonsense.

what're we young people supposed to do? become intangible ghosts haunting the university stacks until we graduate? ridiculous.

everytime someone needs to be retrained heavily that's at least 2, usually 4, years of hard education, gov't loans, lower buying power (thus weaker economic stimulus) and other debilitating issues to the economy. there's no quick fix, only lasting problems. how people don't scream back for them to go jump in a lake is beyond me.

[Skidmore]

23. I have a Master's degree and just made the last payment

on my student loan in January after faithfully paying in double payments for the past 10 years. When this contract runs out in '06, I will be jobless. I have no idea what to do. Jobs are scarce here anyway and I don't want more student loans. I'm 50 this year and, as I get older, it's been harder and harder to be seriously considered for a position. Employer don't want experienced workers anymore. Honestly, I'm more than a little scared about the future since my retirement fund lost >50% of its value over the last 3 years--it's vested so I just can't take my money and go elsewhere. Something has got to give out there.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. What crap!

"As certain kinds of jobs dry up here, there is no reason to think that our talented workforce will not redeploy its skills in new directions and endeavors," Challenger said in a report.

There's a perfectly good reason-they aren't hiring anyone in the US! We ask for too much money! CEO's can't keep making 400x the average worker if they have to pay the average worker more money. If the corpoartions are left alone, they will contract everything out but menial work for no pay, that way they have all the money and a complete lock on all power in the US.

[tom_paine]

7. Don't forget all the Guards they'll need

As the Imperials are re-implementing Medeval England, three growth areas are in prsions, fortress building, and impoverished guards to kill other impoverished people.

So just retrain as a murderer. The Bushveiks have plenty of work for you.

[Sandpiper]

10. And the soldiers too

Having an entire generation without opportunity or hope of a better life is a military recruiter's wet dream.

Heck, they might not even have to reinstate the draft.

[tom_paine]

6. More Pravda

"Don't Worry, Comrades! Just relax and do what we say. Comrade Stalin loves the little people and you must trust him!"

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Maine-i-acs]

8. "Offshore Placement Specialist"

Sounds like a good title to me. Visit corporations and tell them how to send their jobs overseas.

[jamesinca]

9. This is insane

he is looking for people to go back and pick up mostly manual labor type jobs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As more companies search for cheaper sources of labor, retraining American workers with new skills and the latest technology, particularly at the community college level,

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Community colleges are pretty full with people right now. Except for the health care training, I think most of the job training goes to things like air conditioner repair, auto body repair etc....

[orwell]

11. Outsourced In America

The outsourcing of US jobs is not dependent on US labor's skill set, but rather tied to dramatically lower wage rates in some foreign countries. Countries such as India (IT) and China (Manufacturing) have very deep, low paid, skilled labor pools that will act as an offset to US wage and job gains. Even Kerry recognizes this.

The global revolution in telecommunications technology is a significant 'enabler' here. Multinational corporate managers can fluidly control worldwide labor pools with real time information feedback. One of the few ways to combat this would be some form of constraint of domestic and foreign capital flows, which is unlikely given the laissez faire attitude of global elite capitalists.

There will be very little political will to change the status quo until the upper echelons begin to feel the pinch of the new global employment reality. When upper management sees their own jobs 'outsourced' to very capable foreign management, more think tank bones will be fed to the angry populace to keep the 'mobs' from revolution. This next phase, white collar outsourcing, is most likely to be achieved by foreign purchases of domestic multinationals such as the Daimler purchase of American icons such as Chrysler.

O

[okieinpain]

16. that's what I want to know. if outsourcing is such a good deal,

why don't they outsource the ceo, cfo, etc. hell the board of directors could save a fortune.

[MUAD_DIB]

38. Why do you hate America?

They've earned the right to that money.

The economy is poised right on the cusp.

Outsourcing is good for Amurka.

Jobs are being created...really.

Tax cut anyone?


:7


But seriously, they will never allow that. That would be going too far.

[Tempest]

12. Here's your education opportunities

The State of California university system is cutting 20,000 student openings.

Community colleges statewide are cutting back on enrollment, classes and buildings.

And it isn't just California doing this.

This country is fucked.

Thanks George!

[54anickel]

14. Oh, that's just great news, NOT!!! That sucks! n/t

[Sandpiper]

17. No kidding

They tell us to go back to school. Meanwhile their tax cuts and slashing of education budgets make college both more expensive and less accessible.

[Tempest]

19. Pell Grant cuts

Bush has all but eliminated Pell Grants.

He's also increased the means test for receiving them.

[loftycity]

13. Holding a gun to their head and shouting "What are you laughing at

Your next!" They are so dumb. Well, after they have outsourced everyone..who are they exactly going to speak too?
That will be the Challenge for Challenger.

[sendero]

15. The only thing...

... that will sink in to these simpering fools is for everyone to go back to school and train for THEIR jobs, and by flooding the workplace reduce their wages to half.

This is something anyone should be able to understand: we only need so many doctors, lawyers, and accountants. Everybody cannot be one.

Without manufacturing, there will be no need for a lot of the service-sector jobs these brilliant prognosticators (probably the same lot who has been predicting serious job growth for 3 years and have been dead wrong each time) go on and on about.

Not only that - but anyone who thinks you can have "national security" when you can't actually MANUFACTURE anything needs a serious left foot attitude adjustment.

[cryofan]

18. Our leaders need to let us escape to low cost 3rd world countries

If we took our meager savings and were able to move longterm to the 3rd world (until Social Security age), we could survive. Most Americans could lay their hands on $20K, which might not be that much money here, but in the 3rd world, that is a small fortune.

But of course our leaders have made sure that all these so called free trade agreements that let the third worlders sell their cheap goods here and come here to work, do not let Americans go live and run businesses in the 3rd world (not unless you have $300K or so).

Trapped like livestock, we are.....

[Jim__]

20. Yeah - from Forbes - just be reborn as a millionaire - n/t

[dawn]

21. Go back to school? Fine. But what should people study?

This is the problem. The old arguments don't work anymore. What, exactly, are the fields in which people should be earning degrees?

An MBA is not a good idea, unless you already have management experience. I have a friend who was laid off, and is getting hers, and she can't believe the amount of people in her program that think that getting the MBA will magically get them a high-paying job.

Nursing schools are glutted with new students, and many aren't accepting applicants anymore.

Although there are still teacher shortages in many states, teachers aren't able to find jobs because of state budget shortfalls. (This is what I've been thinking of doing. I'm a web professional and just floating from contract to contract. I don't see a future in my field, so I thought about earning my teaching credential. I'm wondering if there will be any openings when I graduate. I'm trying to improve my Spanish so I can maybe get a Bilingual Certificate, where there are more jobs.)

What fields should people be training in? Perhaps artificial intelligence, or renewable energy? Are there schools that are even teaching this stuff? (Not like many could qualify for those programs, anyway...)

[AG78]

26. What fields should people be training in?

The new ones. You're not supposed to know what they are. You can't know. In the dynamic economy that is America, nobody knows what great new markets will open up. That's the beauty of it. Just train. Make sure you train. There's no more time to enjoy life. It's work, get fired, train. Work, get fired, train. Maybe work, definitely get fired, train. Don't work, watch your friend's get fired, and train again. Don't work, everyone else has now been fired, fight for the new jobs. Maybe work, get fired, kill for the new jobs. No more work, join the military, train to kill. Get pushed out by robotic soldiers created by the military-industrial complex, and then fight them for the right to exist. What happens after it's Humans vs. Corporations/Robotic-never-get-tired-or-hungry soldiers is anyone's guess.

As if that's a poor future.

[dawn]

42. Well..

The argument of "just go back to school" doesn't work if there is nothing to train for. It's a cop-out, and a way to just shrug off people who struggle to find their way in this economy, like they don't exist.

[AG78]

46. Agreed

And whoever doesn't have money, in this reality, basically doesn't exist.

[theHandpuppet]

44. That was a gem...

It's so damn true I know I shouldn't be laughing!

[TahitiNut]

24. This is such TOTAL BULLSHIT, I could spit fire.

If anything, the American workforce is too educated and challenging for the psycho-junior "managers" that're infesting most companies. They want slavish obedience from people frightened to lose their H1B visas. They don't want a thoughtful workforce or anyone that reminds them of their parents -- which they're still too immature to deal with.

The idea of going to college for salary jobs is total and abysmal garbage. A decent college education should further equip people to think and learn for themselves. It should enrich a person's life in other than monetary, salary-slave purposes. There's not a damned thing wrong with a college-educated plumber or a college-educated carpenter.

[moondust]

25. Show us some new industries

waiting to absorb millions of newly trained workers and we'll be glad to reconsider your obsolete plan.

[shrike]

27. Anyone who thinks retraining is the answer has never tried to do it

First of all, it costs money. You have no job, therefore, no money. Scholarships and grants? Don't make me laugh. Student loans? Sure, so the next time you're downsized you'll be in even more desperate straits.

Second of all, time. Most older workers have families and debts. They must find some sort of job in order to survive. If you're working 60 hours a week making at some $8 an hour job, when do you have time to go to school?

Thirdly, what do they retrain for? In the '80s, the big watchword in Detroit was technology training for displaced autoworkers. Now, guess what -- those jobs are going overseas, too.

[AG78]

28. Money and time?

Well, certainly you're not getting it. What kind of jibberish are you flapping your piehole about? Just train for the new jobs. You're questioning too much.

How do we create a healthy environment for the development of the family? Make everyone work and train more. I think that's fairly simple. We get rid of Howard Stern and Janet Jackson, who erode the foundation of family, and keep people so busy that all they might have some free time for is to pop out a few more future consumers/workers training for the new jobs, and then those children go directly into training. We don't have time for childhood anymore. We have to make the all important buck...or die trying.

How do you pay for the schooling for the new jobs? Don't worry about the debt. After you train for the new jobs, you'll have plenty of time to try paying off the additional debt...or die trying. Either way.

There are 6 billion people on the planet, and that number continues to grow. Life is cheap, and whether you're an IT worker, an engineer, a cashier, or a soldier, we're nothing but expendable numbers. Everything in life, including the air we all breathe, is a commodity just waiting to be traded. Just shutup and train.

[dawn]

43. Um...

Either this is brilliant satire, or you are truly out of your mind.

[AG78]

45. Thank you

On both counts.

Don't worry, I'm completely on your side.

[markus]

32. How many re-trained VB code monkeys are there in America?

I know several, guys in their 30s and 40s and even 50s who went back to school to learn the latest thing.

And now those jobs are going away. They only future they'll have is as the cart/greeter at Wal-Mart. Most can't afford another re-education track with its loans and lost income. They're screwed because they fell for this the last time.

Before we figure out why we're bleeding and what to do about it, we need to apply a tournaquet: stop retroactively tax breaks for outsourcing effective to the date you announce the strategy.

Require all telephone CSR's to use the legal name under which they are paid, and to identify the city (and, if out of the U.S.) the country which you are calling when you dial the toll-free number. Require them to provide a toll-free call to a U.S based call center if you request it.

Require that all computer code used in life/safety applications, military or other government applications, be reviewed by U.S. citizens before deloyment. Make it cost just too damn much.

And that's just high-tech (including the CSRs because so much support and customer service is going overseas). But the CRS rules should apply to everyone: financial services, etc.

Start regulating Made in the U.S.A, Finished in the U.S.A., Assembled in the U.S.A., Transported by Truck Direct From China to the U.S.A and all of the other obsfucation. County of origin lageling in big block lettesr on all packaging. Hell, I think they should put the hour wage of the people who make it on the package.

Tournaquet first, neat solutions later.

[BiggJawn]

29. Can you trust a CEO of an "Outplacement Firm"?

I don't think so.
In fact, can you trust a CEO of ANYTHING?

Mr. Challenger, I hope somebody gets to find out how you taste with A-1 sauce. Go fuck yourself. Go live for 10 years on less than $10 an hour, then come back and tell the rest of us how to do it. "How can a man who's Warm understand a man who's Cold?"

Y'know, I might actually ENJOY rubbing out Aristocrats when the next phase of the Revolution comes....

[Rex]

34. Thanks (first real laugh I've had all day).

FYI - I already called dibs on the job as 'guillotine lever technician'. :evilgrin:

[MUAD_DIB]

40. I'll be standing right beside you when it happens as

will many others here. We won't enjoy the job, but something needs to shaken up or we are doomed: right, center and left.

[ldf]

30. there's not a whole lot of training required

to work at walmart, our largest private employer.

you can just fight our senior citizens for those jobs.

[damnraddem]

31. Hey, that's a good idea! Go back to school.

Take lots of foreign languages. Then, next time your job is outsourced, at least you'll be able to speak the language of the country where your job goes.

[Rex]

33. Jobs don't "dry up", they are exported to cheap labor nations.

By men who wear diamond studded golf shoes and have a different limo for each day of the week.

So what this asshole really means is that now instead of needing a Bachelors degree to flip hamburger patties at McDonalds, you need a Masters. :eyes:

How much longer until the Revolution?

[DiverDave]

35. In 2000

I spent 10K on a computer technician class.
In 2002 I spent another 12K on a Network Administrator class.
I cannot find anything except contract work.
Let me tell you all how it works,
You get a call. Can you work today?
Yes I can. I work for anywhere from 1 day to 1 month.
I have little experience so I take the lowest paying positions.
Now I have a rep as the guy that will jump at the lower paying jobs.
Meanwhile my payments for my school loans march on.
The people I work with have alot more experience then me, they are deeper in debt...
Now what part of the FUCKING RETHUGLICAN PROGRAM HAVE I NOT DONE!!??
I go to school, check.
I go into the IT field, as we all know thats the big thing, check.
And, as MY luck holds true, they offshore all the jobs I paid thousands to be trained for.
It's a HUGE FUCKING JOKE on me.
I swear to god, if I had one of these fucks in front of me I would beat his ASS!!!
Meanwhile, the school loans have to be paid, on my unemployment and my wifes salary...

Edited to add more contempt for these jerkoff's

[bain_sidhe]

36. "particularly at the community college level"

As someone whose family income depends on a community college, I support community colleges. They fill a necessary niche. And there are some good jobs (meaning those paying a living wage) available that require nothing more than vocational training or a two-year "associates" degree.

BUT

The jobs they train students for are not generally decision-making jobs. To get a decision-making position in management, you need at least a Bachelor's degree (Master's degrees are generally preferred). Those degrees are getting more and more out of reach for the VAST majority of Americans. As others have noted, tuitions are rising, grants and loans are falling. If your family can't afford a 4-year college degree for you, it's unlikely you'll ever be the one making the decisions. For some people, that's the way they want it. There's nothing wrong with working to live instead of living to work, IF THAT'S THE WAY YOU WANT IT. But let's not pretend that this "particularly at the community college level" prescription is anything other than a means for advancing the plutocracy. Only the rich will get the education that allows them to hold the decision-making positions, and they will always decide in their own favor.

[nolabels]

37. The freeps can tell you how it works

They are so caught up in their own dogma anymore, that it doesn't matter if it makes sense, only that it fits the Dogma. Lately it feels like the tipping point has already past, but I would love to see the looks on some of these folks when they get that little pink slip.

Not that I go there for reading material but I did find some of it telling.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/959604/posts

Mods if this link is not allowed please excuse me for the mistake, It was just that these folks are really are a hoot in how the rationalize things that don't really work

[0007]

39. The day will come when we'll be sneaking into Mexico to work for

Ford Motor company or G.E.

I'm gonna get a degree in adobe brick making and cleaning outdoor toilets in foreign counties.

[NashVegas]

47. One of My Favorite Lou Dobb's Rejoinders to the "Retrain" Refrain

"for what jobs!?"

In the 80s, young people were told to train for tech jobs. In the 90s, young people were told to train for medical industry jobs.

Those were the big ones. The educational system responded to the industy's call for trained labor, and now the industry is doing what it can to eliminate those jobs.

You want my advice? Retrain for any of the following:

air conditioner repair
auto mechanic
hair stylist
plummer
catering / food service
carpentry

Basically, any service that is necessarily performed locally will be the only safe jobs for those who live off of their income, rather than the income of their income.

Oh and yes, having an understanding of enterpreurship will be a good thing, because chances are you'll be forced to compete against other individual contracters. They want us at each others' throats, you'd better believe it.

[progressivebydesign]

48. Nurses, and other medical staff are still in demand.

If you try to do any job searches online, the majority of ads are now medical. If I didn't have a total, phobic aversion to blood and other icky things.. I'd be SO there! Also, diesel mechanics seem to be needed. Other than that? We're all screwed!

[DS1]

49. My Applied Carnival Ride Management Degree is bound to pay off

[JoeMemphis]

50. Maybe they should just outsource all jobs

so we here in the US can consume and have the freedom to 'innovate'! No word about how we're going to pay mortgages, but I guess part of the GOP economic dream is for Americans to become mobile corporate serfs, moving from apartment to apartment to wherever our corporate overlords want to create jobs.

Sounds exciting, huh?

It's the GOP vision for Amurka.

[JoeMemphis]

51. Anyone notice it's always the wealthy executives

who love offshoring and sending US jobs overseas?

I have yet to see a laid-off worker or a Joe Lunchbox praise the benefits of outsourcing.

"Yup, we may not be able to feed our children or pay the mortgage, but the fact that my job went off to China gives me the freedom to innovate."