Collapse of ancient Ellesmere ice shelf stuns scientists

[Newsjock]

Source: Nunatsiaq News

A huge chunk of ice about the size of Bermuda has cracked off Canada’s largest remaining Arctic ice shelf.

The ancient slab of ice, measuring about 50 square kilometres in area and almost 400 metres thick, broke away from the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf on Ellesmere Island’s northern coast last week, the Canadian Ice Service said Aug. 25.

“The whole northeast quarter seems to have gone,” said Trudy Wohlleben, a senior ice forecaster at the service, who first noticed cracks developing on the shelf in early August. Satellite images over the last week have confirmed the huge chunk of ancient ice shelf has broken away, she says.

The breakup points to the profound change underway in the Arctic and the accelerating loss of a unique and “majestic” part of Canada’s landscape, says John England, University of Alberta earth scientist.

Read more: http://www.nunatsiaqonline.ca/stories/article/260810_collapse_of_ancient_ellesmere_ice_shelf_stuns_scientists/

[Xipe Totec]

1. It's... glub, glub, glub... not... glub, glub, glub... global... glub, glub, glub... warming... n/t

[Divine Discontent]

34. I'd say! That's 120,000 square acres and over 1/5th of a mile thick!

nothing to see here - move on!!!

[wizstars]

58. Acres aren't square.

Saying "square acre" is like saying "square square feet".

An acre is 43,560 square feet. If you take the square root of that, you get an irrational number which is not precisely defined. Therefore the length of the side of one acre cannot be equal to the length of a perpendicular side. (length <>width.) Any perimeter enclosing 43,560 square feet constitutes one acre.

[Chellee]

65. Ok.

If something was square square wouldn't it be cubed?

And whether acres are square are not, how many acres are in 50 square Km?

Because it doesn't matter what you measure things in, whether its acres, feet, kilometers, hectares, or deviled eggs laid end to end. Measurements correspond to each other.

[Divine Discontent]

76. yep, whether they are square or not, the #'s I put are pretty accurate.

just a huge area.

[tavalon]

69. Well if it's irrational, it doesn't exist!

Whew, close one!

[border_town]

68. I know the media

is all over this story...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Mendocino]

2. Explorers seeking the North Pole

traditionally left the coast in the vicinity of Ward Hunt because of the relative stability of the ice there. This is known as the "ice foot" allowing many miles of good travel before the more capricious ice of the ocean-influenced flow was reached.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

45. And it's the oldest sea ice in the northern hemisphere, per the article..

3,000 to 5,000 years. :(

[Angry Dragon]

3. For some that is a good thing

People living far inland may now find that they have beach front property.

Even if there is not global warming, the oceans, air and land are being destroyed.
That should be enough for governments and corporations to start giving a damn

[Matilda]

4. Them's my sentiments.

Even if the theory of human contribution to global warming turns out to be wrong, by taking measures to preserve the environment, we can only contribute to the planet's well-being. Seems to me like the most basic reason for action.

[aquart]

11. Can't. They'd have to tax the rich.

[anarch]

24. you totally misunderestimate the power of pure greed

yeah, I'm using a bushism...but it's in the service of truth, dammit.

The elite rulers of this planet care not a whit for what they destroy...it's all about their own profit and "power". The government in the U.S. pretty much is the capitalists...elsewhere somewhat the same, to varying degrees. Hell, even individual humans of the lower echelons of privilege are unwilling to sacrifice anything if it causes them too much personal inconvenience. It's a shame...it's such a shame.

[Toots]

81. If it is sea ice which it is, it doesn't raise the water level at all.

Only ice melting off of land would raise the sea level..

[wordpix]

90. BP and its ilk will be happy. More sea to drill baby drill in

[kestrel91316]

5. Why are scientists "stunned"? Are they truly so clueless about the

REAL LIFE implications of climate change and AGW???

[Lucky Luciano]

6. They are stunned because it is happening faster than models predicted.

[glinda]

15. It is going to happen a lot faster than that. I fear in my lifetime I will see the worst and

am 55.

[Patchuli]

21. Double-nickel

in birth year and age. Me too. We're screwed on this planet...

[givemebackmycountry]

32. Me three...

birth year and age, how odd is that?
Not very.
WE know what's coming.

[cilla4progress]

35. Me 4.

What is there to do? Maybe it is our innate sense of irreversible change that is making everyone so crazy. Would really like some good news, for a change. Hate to say it but, glad I only had 1 child...

[Lorien]

41. There's A LOT we can do, but the political will to do it does not exist in America

Green energy tech exists but we barely use it. We could plant a billion trees (as China and other Nations are doing) to absorb the CO2, but we don't. We could get off beef, but we'd rather die than give up burgers. There's a million things that we can do, yet we're not only not doing them, we're making things worse.

[cilla4progress]

61. I know -

we get what we deserve. Too bad we have to take down so many other species with us...

[Delphinus]

78. And that's

what pisses me off. It's one thing for us to hurt ourselves but when we hurt others, be they two-legged, four-legged, winged, or crawly, I just get so ... I don't know ... really, I don't know - mad is not quite it. But it makes me just want to give my life so that the innocent don't have to suffer.

[glinda]

84. We need an environmental President.

[unkachuck]

87. "What is there to do?"

....I'm eating less, shitting less, farting less....

....I'm a bright patch of green on a parched planet....

[bikebloke]

42. Me four!

[Lifelong Protester]

49. As another double nickel, I agree. I am reading McKibben's

book "Eaarth" and am through the first part, laying out the dire scenario. About to start the last part where he lays out a plan. Hope that part is more hopeful...

[rambler_american]

51. McKibbin

was interviewed on New Hampshire Public Radio this morning (on tape) and I immediately downloaded Eaarth to my Kindle. This is very scary shit.

[Lifelong Protester]

53. No lie! I saw him on Charlie Rose, and what he said scared

the bejeezes out of me. Supposedly, as I mentioned, the second half of the book includes his ideas on how we can 'gracefully back away' and get off the downward spiral.

I hope that part of the book is more hopeful!

I know I am redoubling my efforts to be mindful of my actions in this melt-down scenarion. I hope the message is clear to all~our way of living must change or we are doomed.

[cilla4progress]

82. Sorry, but

we ARE dooomed. Read the Thich Nhat Hanh thread for some spiritual uplift, anyway. I'm sorry but, it IS inevitable at this point. Only a matter of when. But it was always inevitable anyway. Just hope it's not too nasty... (I know it will be...).

[Lorien]

40. Yep, me too. This is the biggest issue facing all life on earth, yet it's the most ignored

how does anyone think the economy will look when nearly every major city has faced it's own Katrina and we can't grow FOOD? It's not just the weather we need to worry about either; biodiversity loss is just as great a threat. If we lose a species like honeybees or bats then the entire ecosystem will be on it's way toward collapse. Technology won't save us either; it hasn't saved the Gulf of Mexico.

[JNelson6563]

52. I think some DUers would disagree

See: GD.

[defendandprotect]

26. Global Warming had a 50 year delay ... we are only up to 1960 now ....

obviously any scientist should know -- and they have said so -- that it is impossible

to know how all of this will compound or accelerate!!

Even at that -- yes, I think they are astonished -- mainly, IMO, because they are witnessing

such an astonishing impact on nature which I'm sure they intellectually understood --

however, the emotional is something else again!!

And all while our governments which represent elite insanities and capitalistic insanites

continue to protect those insanities!!

[Grinchie]

54. We just watched Soylent Green again -- It's scary how it remains fresh 40 years later.

Most movies of that period seem dated and out of touch, but when you actually listen to the dialog, it remains truly frightening.

"Soylent Corporation".

[tclambert]

64. Up until the 1980s they thought climate change would take thousands of years.

Gradual. Slow-moving. Like a glacier. Then they started seeing evidence it could happen a lot faster than they had thought. And glaciers can speed up, too.

[XemaSab]

29. .

[StClone]

7. My stunned relatives in Iowa believed in Climate change

But were still in shock when Ames Iowa saw a higher flood crest than just seven years back. Believing in something then actually seeing it in real time is discomforting even to the realists (and humans) that are Scientists.

[JDPriestly]

38. My grandparents built a house on a hill in Iowa about 67 years ago.

For the first time ever, the basement flooded this year.

[donquijoterocket]

47. denialists

But then they'll talk to denialists who'll claim there's absolutely no connection between the increase of moisture holding capacity of warmer air , and/or the major chunks of centuries old ice floating away.It's all part of "natural cycles" and all those effluents of combustion have no effect.But you're relatives in Iowa might have more effect talking to their neighbors and acquaintances than all the reports and papers published by the folks who study this phenomenon.Encourage them to think about what we ought and have got to do.

[Historic NY]

8. What you whining about nothing wrong it natureal...its been hot this summer.....

:sarcasm:

[nannah]

9. thanks for posting this

if only important information like this were made available to the many. management of information is so important to managing opinion.

[jwirr]

10. Was this the kind of ice shelf that was land based and thus will raise

the sea level?

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. Either way, bad news. Most ice shelves are fed by glaciers, and

if a shelf breaks off there's nothing there to hold the glacier back, speeding its flow to the ocean. Glacier movement can change from centimeters to meters overnight, and THAT pumps more ice into the sea and raises sea levels.

[tclambert]

66. An ice shelf floats, an ice sheet sits on the ground.

But as another post just said, a shelf can hold back glaciers. Removing the shelf can let the glaciers slide faster.

[RainDog]

12. the one comment at the site of this article is so idiotic I want to slap the person who made it n/t

[Patchuli]

22. I hope he lives at the beach...nt

[UpInArms]

13. hmmm...

I wrote this in early 2002

How Long Can You Tread Water?

By: Bridget Gibson

When George Walker Bush ascended to the office of the President of the United States, with his experienced entourage in tow, we were told that "the adults were back in charge" and there would be no learning curve. With this in mind, knowing that the collective governmental and administrative experience would not fail to recognize the function of the Executive Branch of our government in international policies, I look back on the accomplishments of the Bush administration's first year.

Opportunities abounded in February to join with 123 nations that pledged to ban the use and production of anti-personnel bombs and mines. The Bush administration refused to join. I guess they hadn't figured out how to agree to something so obvious. Another opportunity presented itself in August, and Mr. Bush disavowed a claim made by President Clinton that the United States would comply by 2006 to the Land Mine Treaty (banning land mines) which was signed in Ottawa in December 1997 by 122 nations. I surely hope that the land mine that took our American soldier's foot in Afghanistan was not of our own making.

Then, in March, Mr. Bush declared the Kyoto Protocol of 1997 "dead". Bush decided that global warming and greenhouse gasses had not been discussed and studied enough. (Note: Bush also shunned negotiations in Marrakech in November to revise the accord.)

In April, the United States failed to be reelected to the UN Human Rights Commission. Since Mr. Bush had been working for the appointment to the Human Rights Commission of John Negroponte and Richard Armitage as Deputy Secretary of State (of Iran-Contra fame), I can only suppose that the United Nations was more familiar with their history than most Americans.

In May, the administration refused to meet with European Union nations to discuss economic espionage and electronic surveillance (the US "Echelon" program), and refused to participate in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which sponsored talks in Paris on ways to crack down on off-shore and other tax and money-laundering havens. Would OECD have assisted us in tracking terrorists earlier?

In July, the US walked out of a London conference to discuss a 1994 protocol designed to strengthen the 1972 Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention (which had been ratified by 144 nations - including the United States) by providing for on-site inspections. I wonder if the knowledge that could have been gained then would have helped to understand the threat of anthrax and who possessed the technology to use this as a terrorist threat? (Note: In Geneva in November 2001, US Undersecretary of State John Bolton stated that the protocol is "dead" while accusing Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Sudan and Syria of violating the Convention while refusing to offer specific allegations or supporting evidence.) Also in July, the US opposed the UN Agreement to Curb the International Flow of Illicit Small Arms and the International Plan for Cleaner Energy, being the only nation to oppose either of these agreements and plans. Did the opposition to such accords allow the terrorists to arm themselves at the expense of American lives?

The week prior to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the United States withdrew from International Conference on Racism, which brought together 163 countries in Durban, South Africa. If we had attended and listened to the participants of this Conference, would we have learned more about the view held by other countries to the expanding powers of the policies of the United States and how the effects of such were influencing opinions of the disenfranchised?

By November, the Bush administration's disdain for humanity became obvious when it forced a vote in the UN Committee on Disarmament and Security to demonstrate its opposition to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. This Treaty was signed by 164 nations and ratified by 89, including France, Great Britain and Russia. Continuing on in December, the US Senate again added an amendment to a military appropriation bill that would keep US military personnel from obeying the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC) Treaty, which would be to set up in The Hague to try political leaders and military personnel charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity. The ICC was signed in Rome in 1998 and approved by 120 countries, with seven opposed (including the US).

Also, in December, the United States officially withdrew from the 1972 Antiballistic Missile Treaty (ABM), gutting the landmark agreement. This is the first time in the nuclear era that the United States has renounced a major arms control accord. Cold Wars are no longer in vogue, it would appear that we like ours hot.

The pattern of unilateralism becomes obvious when all of these acts are views together. Taken separately, they barely mark as blips on the radar of the American public. Only when viewed as a whole does the position of the current administration take its shape. We, these policies say, do not wish to coexist with other nations. We don't care what you think. I heard that said before this year. In the inimical words of George Walker Bush, "Who cares what you think", to a fellow citizen in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, July 4, 2001.

ten years gone and it only gets worse

[Delphinus]

79. Wow!

What a stunningly accurate editorial/expose on the Bush/Cheney evil empire. Excellent piece of work!

[superconnected]

14. It really bothers me because of the polarbears and penguins and anyother animals

that live there.

Beyond sad.

[glinda]

16. Sad beyond words. I agree.

[hugo_from_TN]

33. Uhh, there are no penguins in Canada.

Maybe at some zoos. Penguins live in the Southern Hemisphere.

[KamaAina]

62. Unloess Pittsburgh happens to be playing at Montreal

or Ottawa, Toronto, etc. :P

[tclambert]

63. Sydney Crosby is from Nova Scotia

Penguin. Canada. QEFD.

[time_has_come]

17. nobody fuckin cares n/t

[superconnected]

19. It's like the nazis - most were helping but nobody was to blame

not even the people who turned in the jews who were hiding or the soldiers killing them, thought they were to blame.

In this case all kinds of people have their hands in the pie -gaining money by destroying our environment and fighting legislation to reduce their pollution.

This is why we need government and legislation. Noam Chumsky says that. The corporations convince us that we hate gov because it legislates things - that way they can fight the politicians they can't buy - by convincing the people that having regulations are bad. Ultimately they want to get rid of the government because ultimately it's the people's only real power over them.

[cilla4progress]

36. Wow - excellent post.

Well and succinctly put. Thanks.

[superconnected]

43. Thanks!

I'm sad that Chomsky is looking so old lately - he may not be with us much longer. Of course his opinion pieces will live on.

[anarch]

25. it's true, in a general sense...some of us have been trying to raise the alarm for a long-ass time

but in general, people are unable to connect their personal acts with the larger reality. The see almost everything as "somebody else's problem".

[Jefferson23]

18. Should make everyone very nervous when scientists say they're stunned.

They seem to say they're stunned more than I can ever recall before.

The size of Bermuda!

[TheEuclideanOne]

23. I think they are referring to the Stun Guns

10,000 volts to the side of the neck if you let this information get out!

[Patchuli]

20. Beach folks,

I'd step back quite a bit if I were you...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. Anybody else remember Al Gore's movie?

An Inconvenient Truth.

He said in that movie that the RATE OF INCREASE of global warming would INCREASE. As in exponentially. I am no mathematician.

As in a graph where the X axis goes STRAIGHT UP, parallel to the Y axis. That's what that means. They are stunned.

[Divine Discontent]

37. disturbing indeed...

the greed that comes from man's pursuit of those wanting to be millionaires, well, now, Billionaires knows no stop. They must be stopped or they continue to cause warming and cast off anyone saying it's real as crazies... they're not crazy, they're just sickly greedy!

Their behavior reminds me of an X-Men book title, "God loves, man kills"

[gateley]

28. I'm reminded of the title of a Douglas Adams book - Last Chance to See.

Although he was chronicling endangered species, I'm feeling that way about so many places on our beautiful planet that will be gone forever. And what's so heartbreaking is that the process is accelerated because of us. :(

I'm thinking we'll be on the endangered species list in the not too distant future.

[BeHereNow]

30. We already are on the endangered species list...

and in complete denial about it.
BHN

[gateley]

39. Agree. What a waste. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

31. Oil industry cheers! More Arctic Ocean now cleared of pesky ice, oil well to be built soon.

[bigmonkey]

44. If reducing CO2 emissions combats climate change, we should do it.

This stuff about "is it really human-caused" is just irrelevant, just a distraction.

[defendandprotect]

46. EVERYTHING else is simply a distraction from this issue -- Global Warming ....

We've know about Global Warming since the mid-1950's --

There was a "Warning to Humanity" by Nobel scientists in 1992 --

a complete change of culture was necessary --

Over 60 years now this message has been muted as much as possible by, especially

the oil industry, but capitalists in general.

It is about our HEATING up the atmosphere -- not about anything normal taking place on

the planet.

That HEAT creates floods/droughts -- cracked and caked earth -- more intense weather systems, i.e.,

tornadoes, cyclones, hurricanes -- earthquakes.

There was a 50 year delay in our feeling the effects of Global Warming -- that means we are

only up to about 1960 in suffering those effects. We and all nature suffer these effects

together.

POLLUTION of the planet destroys nature and creates human disease.

The "change in culture" we need is an end to capitalism which is a suicidal concept in its

exploittion of nature, natural resources, animal-life -- and even other human beings ....

according to various myths of "inferiority."

The scientists have also clearly told us that there is no way to predict how all of this will

compound --

for instance, Global Warming has changed weather patterns -- wind patterns --

Right now three of our states -- Wyoming, Idaho, California -- are suffering raging fires again.

Pakistan, China -- suffering flooding.

THIS IS THE ISSUE FOLKS....!!

[Turborama]

50. Everything else pales in comparison. I couldn't agree more strongly!

You've nailed it, basically.

Here's a related OP I just posted in GD you'll find interesting: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9028242">This Is the Hottest Year Ever, and the Climate Catastrophe Has Begun

[defendandprotect]

71. Thank you ... will use this reply to remind me to check that LINK ...!!!

Later --

[liberation]

55. Problem is that some people are so vested in the delusion of capitalism...

And Capitalism since it depends on a game of confidence and an ethereal metric/concept is by definition a delusion.

As I said, the problem is that people are so vested in this silly system, to the point that I honestly think some people think they can "buy" their way out of this predicament.

Every single solution being proposed has to comply or is based on market-friendly & capital-driven approaches. It is nuts. As if earth's climate systems gave a sh*t about colored pieces of paper with random numbers printed on them...

[defendandprotect]

73. Love your challenge to capitalistic economic authority ....

We're all taught the wonders of capitalism in our schools --

takes a lot to begin to understand we don't need it -- it's only been

around a few hundred years creating destruction --

Some of the fastest destruction ever in the nature of its EXPLOITATION of

nature and humans!

Keep tellin' it -- !!


:evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

83. +1,000,000

:applause:

IMO "Cap-n-Trade" reminds me of the Selling of Indulgences by the Church in the Middle Ages, buying forgiveness of one's sins.

[Nihil]

88. And it is supported by the same mindset now as then ...

> IMO "Cap-n-Trade" reminds me of the Selling of Indulgences by the Church
> in the Middle Ages, buying forgiveness of one's sins.

That is just too f*cking true.

Buying a few prayers to make up for a lifetime of sinning.

The doctor has said that you're obese so you go and pay your neighbour to diet.

:argh:

[tex-wyo-dem]

70. You nailed it, defendandprotect!

Human's basic problem is that we have lost our conectiveness to earth and nature...we consider ourselves abive and able to control the environment rather than our intimate reliance upon it.

[defendandprotect]

72. Agree with you, as well ---

The desire to control and war on nature is insane --



Patriarchy -- and its underpinning

Organized Patriarchal religion -- and its creation

Capitalis = the Unholy Trinity of destruction

A Frankenstein World!

[AngryAmish]

48. This ice sheet must be thousands of years old

Since before Jesus was riding dinosaurs...

[BrklynLiberal]

56. Those of us hwo l ive on the shore had better start looking for someplace further inland...

a LOT further inland.

[earth mom]

59. Al Gore 2012! Someone has got to really "Get This" for a "change"!

C'mon Al, I'm sure you are as horrified by this news as the rest of us! Please!

[onethatcares]

60. I'm certain that glen beck will talk about this tomorrow.

of course he'll blame President Obama for not doing enough, fast enough, to prevent this.

:banghead:

[Canuckistanian]

67. If Trudy Wohlleben says that it's huge, I'll believe her

She's been a calm, credible source in the Canadian Ice Service for a while.

She isn't given to making grand, "alarmist" statements.

[defendandprotect]

74. Good . . . but how does your common sense not tell you this is HUGE???

Glaciers are being melted down like ice cubes in hot cocoa --

This thing was the size of Vermont -- !!

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

75. k

[Delphinus]

77. Been offline

a few days and just now saw this. Doesn't bode well for our future - but that's just my opinion.

[AngryAmish]

80. I'll have 12, no 24 Ellesmere beers...

and I believe there will be no charge.

Name that movie:

[Buns_of_Fire]

89. Strange Brew, I think.

One of the classics. Right up there with "Assault of the Killer Bimbos.":7

[Quantess]

85. Uh oh!

[JerseygirlCT]

86. And yet, the news will be all about a deranged buffoon

and his merry band of idiots in WDC today.

This is so huge, that it's hard to take in. Perhaps that helps to explain why it's not being talked about much on television?

[truebrit71]

91. Wow..not good...so what happens next?

Just downloaded the book Eaarth on Kindle and will read it asap...curious as to what sort of timeframe others here are thinking about before the defecation really makes contact with the rotary oscillator bearing in mind that this 'feedback loop' will increase exponentially...10 years, 20, 30?