Whittling man fatally shot by police

[icymist]

Source: Komo 4 News

A man was fatally shot by police in downtown Seattle on Monday afternoon, according to police.

The shooting occurred on the northwest corner of Boren Ave. and E. Howell St. at approximately 4:15 p.m.

Police said an officer was on patrol when he spotted a man sitting on the sidewalk, whittling, and approached him.

The officer told the man to drop the knife several times, police said, but instead of doing so, he stood up. When the man refused to heed to his commands, the officer opened fire and hit the man.


Read more: http://downtownseattle.komonews.com/content/whittling-man-fatally-shot-police

[opihimoimoi]

1. See what FEAR will do a COP??? this is INSANE

[Hubert Flottz]

13. Jed and Granny would be dead meat.

A police chief in this area just beat up an 80 year old man for going the wrong way on a one way street. Good thing the old guy didn't run a red light or the old fella might have gotten the electric chair and I ain't talkin' about a medicare hubaround...

Your parkin' meter runs out and the swat crew and their bum sniffing K-9 team, repels in there on ya.

Shoot first and don't look back, has replaced, serve and protect, somewhere down the pike.

"It ALL increases my parinoia"(them voices is sayin' get outta that car hood!)

[opihimoimoi]

21. The cop is on leave for taking out the WHITTLER...a known wood reductionist

6 times in the chest and da WHITTLER was kaput,,,,yah

[Hubert Flottz]

23. The cop wanted to make sure the guy didn't carve a nude statue

or a gargoyle and destroy the city's virtue and the team's esprit de corps in one fail swoop.

You'd think as hard as times are, the guy would save some ammo for the next great threat to the world, like an election thief or sumpin.

[opihimoimoi]

24. They gonna erect a bronze statue of the WHITTLER HERO

GIVE HIM 2 YEARS PAY BONUS

He is now on paid vacation on Maui....Coronas forever and Luaus in his honor

[Hubert Flottz]

64. The purge has started early...

Who's next?

Edit...the "preemptive war" has come to the streets of the USA...that guy had a knife...he might have become another Jack The Ripper after his current whittling project was finished. Or went on from whittling in public to diddling in public...

[opihimoimoi]

92. Horrors....Not Diddling in Public....Hide the kids....

No vonder dey shoot him....

[Dead_Parrot]

2. 5 or 6 shots to the chest!?

What was he whittling, an RPG?

[dimbear]

6. Sources differ.

Some say he was whittling a hearing aid, others say a Spanish to English dictionary.

[snooper2]

49. that is totally possible

:P

[DeSwiss]

3. K&R

We are living in a Police State.

[icymist]

4. I was listening to the radio when this was happening live.

According to some of the witnesses I heard, that were in a high rise building nearby, the man was sitting on the curb and the policeman walked up to him. There was some shouting and then the shots. They said it all happened real fast. When I heard these reports, I couldn't help but remember when a crazy man was shot by Seattle police a few years back, who also was holding a knife. In that case, the police followed the man for several yards yelling at him to drop the knife and then shot him, fatally as well. Then, in the next few months the media was banging the drums and blowing the trumpets, hailing the new 'non-lethal' taser gun so mentally disturbed people wouldn't have to be killed in these instances. Since then, the tasers are used on unarmed civilians giving an officer a hard time while the knife holding man they were intended for gets shot. Sad man, sad.

[midnight]

7. True.

[No Elephants]

102. Several differences. This man was whittling, not simply holding a knife. Second, this cop did not

have to follow this guy. Third, no evidence yet this guy was crazy.

[pnwmom]

5. Isn't this what Tasers are supposed to be for? Instead, they use them on the grandmas

with diabetes.

[travelingtypist]

8. What was the guy doing that was illegal exactly?

"Officer safety" will be the reason the cop won't be charged, but damn.

[Lagomorph]

9. That's getting to be all too common in Washington...

The cops shoot someone every few days.

Hair trigger training, no thinking, no evaluating the threat, just shoot them.

[Mariana]

81. He didn't do what the cop told him to do fast enough.

Who knows why - maybe he didn't understand what the cop said. Of course, the cop couldn't have backed off to a safe distance (or not got so close to him in the first place) to observe the situation to see if there was actually any threat there.

This pisses me off. My dad often whittles while my mom is shopping, in public, in the mall or on a bench in front of whatever store she's in. Sometimes he draws a small crowd of people watching him - children in particular are fascinated with what he's doing. If he finishes in time, he'll give his creation to one of the kids. No one ever freaks out about the old man sitting on the bench carving a piece of wood with a pocketknife. I hate to think he could be shot and killed because he's hard of hearing and might not understand some order barked at him by a cop.

[No Elephants]

103. Killed for failure to feed officer's sense of self-importance.

[Pooka Fey]

10. If the cop "had to" shoot this man (insert BIG FUCKING IF here)

couldn't he have just shot him once in the knee to immobilize him? Why the 5 bullets to the chest? Why do cops murder citizens for no good reason in the USA? --- The most important question is, when is unlimited police power to kill at will going to become unacceptable to the American public? In other "1st World Countries" (I'm giving the USA it's historical place among this group) the streets of this city would be filled with citizens marching and holding candles to protest and to visibly manifest their repulsion and anger against police abuse of the citizenry.

[Lightning Count]

18. And miss the leg and have it glance off the sidewalk and hit a toddler?

I do want them to shoot the area where they're least likely to miss . Shooting from the hip is a lot harder than it looks in the movies.

[Dr.Phool]

66. How about the stupid bastard leave his gun in his holster.

There was no reason to shoot anywhere!

At least they only gave Barney Fife one bullet.

[Pavulon]

67. If you approach a german officer in a train stationwith a knife

he will shoot you with a submachine gun.

[imnKOgnito]

11. This paragraph is telling of what we've become

"
According to city code, it is unlawful for anyone to "carry concealed or unconcealed on his or her person any dangerous knife, or carry concealed on his or her person any deadly weapon other than a firearm." The code qualifies "any dangerous knife" as "any fixed-blade knife and any other knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches in length."
"


...other than a firearm. So if the guy was sitting there with a gun in his lap he woulda been fine. But start whittling, and all Hell is gonna break loose. Jesus Christ, these cops would shoot Jed Clampett down in the street these days.

[Javaman]

15. Next time, someone needs to whittle, they should use a

licensed machine gun.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. With a strict reading of that statute, people had better buy kitchen knifes only by mail order n/t

[Dr.Phool]

12. Stoopid fucking cop.

I guess it's illegal to just sit around and mind your own business, and not bother anybody.

I remember years ago, on the railroad, we were waiting to switch out part of a steel mill. While we were waiting, the conductor was sitting outside whittling. A mill boss came by, and asked him what he was making. He replied, "Oh, about fifteen dollars an hour".

[SkyDaddy7]

14. I THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT TAZZERS WERE FOR???

The cops sold tazzers to the public as a means to subdue folks with knives, high on drugs, suicide by cop, etc instead of having to shoot them!

...However, all the has happened since tazzers came on the scene is cops continue to kill all of the above and now use the tazzers on ANYONE they do not like! Pregnant women, children, elderly women in their beds and anyone who asserts their Constitutional rights.

Now the cops want to make it illegal to film them in public...We the People are screwed!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Yes, this is the sausage-slicing method of taking away our rights

Let any excuse be enough for the cops to shoot to kill, fill the airwaves with video footage of cops subduing "bad guys," let tasers be used on anyone for any reason, then make it illegal to film any police action.

[boppers]

72. Thomas A. Swift Electric Rifle

It's an acronym. T.A.S.E.R. The idea came from a 1911 adventure novel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Swift_and_His_Electric_Rifle

This pointless factoid/spell check is brought to you by many years of collecting almost entirely useless information.

edit: typo

[Posteritatis]

93. Situations like this are what a polite nod while continuing to walk are for. (nt)

[Lightning Count]

17. Do they carry tasers in Washington? nt

[Lightning Count]

19. Have to admit "The Whittling Man" is a great serial killer name. nt

[Downwinder]

22. Is this getting to be a habit in Wash?

"Memorial held for Wash. pastor killed by deputy"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/30/national/a212909D76.DTL

[Uncle Joe]

25. It sounds like this was a homeless person and I wonder what his age was?

I also wonder if the officer was equipped with a tazer?

Five or six shots to the chest for a man standing up with a knife used for whittling, at the very least this sounds like the officer should be charged with manslaughter.

Thanks for the thread, icymist.

[Lightning Count]

26. Maybe.

It says that he got up and started walking toward the officer with knife in hand.

[Uncle Joe]

27. That brings me to the issue of his age and possible mental status, I'm still wondering

whether the officer had a tazer?

It also seems to me if someone is "walking" toward you with a knife and you didn't have a tazer a couple of disabling shots would have been more than enough, five or six to the chest is overkill to the point of a near execution.

[Lightning Count]

28. I wonder about the taser too.

You always shoot to kill though. What exactly is a disabling shot? Just one to the gut so they can die slowly and painfully? :)

[Uncle Joe]

30. The leg, shoulder or arm, even a gut shot can be treated, one to the heart or brain not so much. n/t

[Lightning Count]

31. So they can miss and have it glance off the sidewalk or sail past them into a toddler?

You always go for the most mass to reduce missed shots. These guys aren't Dirty Harry hitting guys in the leg with a .44 from 25 yards away. It's VERY difficult to shoot from the hip.

[Uncle Joe]

37. The gut is mass, one or two shots, if he was twenty five yards away, the officer had

even less excuse to shoot a "walking" man armed with a knife.

That also brings me back to the age of the "whittler" question, was he middle aged/old man or a running back from the NFL?

Maybe there is a video of this but if the man was "walking" and the officer hit him five or six times in the chest that doesn't sound like "shooting from the hip," that sounds like both hands on the revolver taking aim.

I know something about shooting pistols from my days in the Corps.

[Lightning Count]

38. Nothing quite like dying slow and in agony from a gut wound. nt.

[Uncle Joe]

41. Why do you keep coming back to the man dying? It wasn't like they were in the isolated jungles,

deserts or mountains during a war, this was in the city, they could have taken him to a hospital instead of a morgue.

Getting gut shot doesn't mean you will die, if you can be treated soon enough.

[Lightning Count]

42. Getting a gut shot is one of the most painful ways to die.

And your chances of living are not good at all even with medical intervention. Think of what your abdomen contains and that bullets tend to take curves when they enter flesh.

[Uncle Joe]

43. It's painful but if you can be treated, you damn sure stand a much better chance of survival than

getting shot five or six times in the chest or head.

Even one shot in the heart or brain can do it, five or six can kill you several times in case you change your mind about dying the first time.

[Lightning Count]

45. Please outline the treatment for a gut wound.

Head for sure, but you don't aim for the head unless you're a sniper. Chest is about the same as the abdomen. A shot to the liver or colon can have the same affect as a shot to the heart. And you also get the added pleasure of toxins spilling out into your bloodstream and surrounding tissue.

[Uncle Joe]

46. Getting in the shot in the heart is far more likely to result in fatality

than getting shot in the gut, and honestly, I believe you already know that.

[Lightning Count]

48. What percentage of area does the heart occupy of the chest?

What percentage of area does the colon occupy in the abdomen? Which are you more likely to hit?

[Uncle Joe]

50. If you want to kill somebody, shoot them in the chest five or six times and you're bound

to hit the heart, especially if you're a trained police officer.

One or two times in the gut and even if you hit the colon, that can be treated at the hospital, not so much with the heart.

[Lightning Count]

52. Really?

So if I hit someone on the right side of the chest 5 or 6 times then I'm bound to hit the heart? What about the center? :)

How long do you think it takes to die when you are hit in the colon?

Why do you suppose police officers shoot at the center of mass?

[Uncle Joe]

56. Really?

Do you honestly believe you can group five or six shots just on the right side of the chest of a walking/falling man?

How long does it take for you to die if you get shot in the heart?

What about the arteries near the heart?

How long does it take for an ambulance to arrive and transport you to a hospital?

[Lightning Count]

57. Me?

Heck no. I'd be lucky if all 6 shots hit the chest. Probably get one on two in the groin and a one in the neck, but I am a terrible shot.

Instantly in most cases, but not all. Beats a slow agonizing shot to the colon which has very similar percentages. Let's put in this way. How many people survive when their appendix bursts?

Too long :).

I think the true solution though is to have police officers shoot guns and knives out of people's hands. Minimal injury.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Yes but as we're talking about a police officer trained in the use of firearms, he/she

would be much more likely to hit the chest area if they aimed at the chest.

I don't expect officers to shoot guns or knives out of people's hands but five or six times in the chest toward a "walking" man just whittling seems extraordinarily excessive.

My appendix ruptured and they mis-diagnosed it as food poisoning, until the next day when they did surgery.

[Lightning Count]

59. We are approaching this at different angles.

Could have been a man just whittling. Could have been a man with a large knife in hand walking toward a police officer after being told to drop it which is pretty scary. I have zero idea.

You are incredibly lucky. Glad that they were able to fix you up.

[X_Digger]

62. Police officers aren't trained in trick shooting.

Most use their firearms once a year, to qualify on the range. Many have to test more than once to pass.

Gregory B. Morrison, Bryan J. Vila, (1998) "Police handgun qualification: practical measure or aimless activity?", Policing: An International Journal of Police Strategies & Management, Vol. 21 Iss: 3, pp.510 - 533

If you have an interest, read that article- you'll find that police aren't as competent with firearms as people like to believe.

[Lightning Count]

76. I think you were responding to post 59.

I was joking about the trick shots, although many believe it's as easy as they see on TV.

[X_Digger]

77. Woops, ya, sorry. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

88. I never said they were trained in trick shooting, but if they fire point blank five to six times

in to your chest, they will more than likely hit your heart; pretty much killing you instantly.

[Pavulon]

68. Liver.. you need one to live..

go fire a handgun, even at paper and see if you can play Grey's Anatomy. IF you can try it after running 100 yards and with someone screaming at you.

[Uncle Joe]

87. Where in this story did you read or hear that the officer had run 100 yards or that the man was

screaming at him?

[oneshooter]

33. You don't "shoot to kill", you shoot to stop.

If it results in death then he is still "stoped".

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Lightning Count]

35. That makes sense. nt

[bigmonkey]

40. Finally someone with "sense" speaks up.

Wanton, callous murder is the only practical solution for the average policeman. Everybody knows that. They should teach it in school - you have to do whatever any policeman says, or he's within his rights to kill you. Everybody knows that.

[Dappleganger]

29. If a cop cannot disarm a knife from a guy like that

he ain't got no business putting on the uniform. What a worthless piece of trite.

[Lightning Count]

32. The guy isn't Jet Li.

How do you disarm someone with a knife?

[oneshooter]

34. Shoot him? n/t

[Dappleganger]

36. Ask any WWII veteran.

It's not rocket science.

Who was the one who escalated the situation? The cop or the homeless guy? For lazy cops they see every problem as a nail.

[Lightning Count]

39. Neither of us know from this article.

So please explain how easy it is to disarm someone with a knife.

[ThomCat]

51. If nobody knows, then why are you running up and down this

entire thread being a big damned cheerleader for cops that shoot and kill people first instead of making any effort to disarm?

:wtf:

[Lightning Count]

54. Did nothing of the sort.

I was just pointing out how ridiculous the "shoot them in the arm or leg" policy is. I think this case stinks to high heaven and said as much earlier in the thread.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. WWII veterans would have shot the guy.

:shrug:

What do you think they did to the Japanese when they would charge with samurai swords?

[Lightning Count]

91. Obviously, they disarmed them with some sweet judo moves.

That's why they were the Greatest Generation.

[alfredo]

44. I wonder if the guy might have been deaf.

[superconnected]

47. In a place where cops beat up teenage girls who jay walk, I'm not surprised.

This is getting pretty common in the news here. I live 30 miles north of Seattle.

[Bragi]

53. Many cops are cowards

This one clearly was.

[superconnected]

55. I'm beginning to think that many may also have control/power issues.

I mean most people killed by the police that I've read about, have been killed for "not cooperating" and not doing something actually deadly.

[Pavulon]

70. I mean clearly, all the evidence..shit wait

you are just bullshitting. If the guy had a knife and approached the police he met the legal requirements for lethal force. If you try the same thing in the US, Germany, or Switzerland they will all poke holes in your body.

[Jax]

60. Another worthless thug with a gun and badge

too fucking many of these murdering thugs in too many places.

[superconnected]

61. At this point I think that's wrong - this is becoming systematic.

It's the departments policies. Too many times the cop gets off for murders because their policy in handling people who don't cooperate allows them to kill or taze people even when they are not a threat. The cops claim that they may become a threat if they say - walk off with a knife. You used to not get charged for a crime or even killed for it without committing the crime or at least showing great intent - threatening to kill someone with the knife.

[Jax]

63. Rapist and murderer David Brame

made it to chief of Tacoma Police, raping his way through any woman he wanted.

There are too many David Brame thugs with guns and badges, power is theirs and the end of their gun.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/349106/bad_tacoma_top_cop_david_brame.html?cat=9

google him, you will get many others like him too.

This murdering thug just up the Interstate from Brame in Everett got away with it.

snip:

"EVERETT — A day after acquitting Everett police Officer Troy Meade of murder and manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a drunken driver, a Snohomish County jury on Tuesday ruled that Meade is not entitled to financial compensation.

Using different legal standards, the jury found that Meade did not prove that he used lawful force and acted in self-defense when he shot Niles Meservey, 51, in the parking lot of an Everett restaurant last June.

The jury voted 11-1; they only needed 10 votes to reach a verdict in this civil phase of Meade's trial.

On Monday, Meade was acquitted of second-degree murder and first-degree manslaughter in Meservey's death on the night of June 10, which came after Meade responded to reports that a drunken driver was attempting to drive away from the Chuckwagon Inn."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011714625_copshooting28m.html

He still got away with murder.

This one might go to what you are talking about policies in handling people too. I see what you are saying.

[icymist]

65. Witness disputes police account of fatal shooting (UPDATE)

Seattle police have scheduled a media briefing for Tuesday afternoon to release additional details about Monday's fatal shooting of a man holding a knife by a West Precinct patrol officer.

<snip>
Maurina said a tall and scruffy-looking man was standing with his back to her. She said she never saw the man's hands but thought he might be urinating or fumbling around in a fanny pack. Maurina said she watched the officer approach the man and saw him mouthing something to the man, who did not appear to respond.

"His body stance did not look threatening at all," she said of the man. "I could only see the gentleman's back, and he didn't look aggressive at all. He didn't even look up at the officer."

The officer approached the man, but was still "at least two car-lengths" away when Maurina said she heard the officer say, "Hey, hey, hey," followed by five gunshots.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012769201_copshooting01m.html

[Pavulon]

69. Crazy dude, knife. bad combination.

if they told him to drop a knife and he did not they can shoot. Her account while elegant backs the police.

[icymist]

78. I'm curious, how do you see this backing the police?

We're still waiting for the official police account of this incident. The witness claims two car lengths between the two when the shooting happened. That would have to be one huge lunge with a knife, I'm pretty sure nobody could jump that far from a standing position.

[Pavulon]

79. 21' is the gold standard

for use of deadly force for a knife. IE closer than that you cant shoot them before they can close distance and kill you with a knife..

[icymist]

80. I'll still wait for the official version, not speculation.

The other thing that bothers me is who was putting more people in danger, the man holding a knife or the cop that shot five quick shots off in an intersection where,we now know, there were people waiting in cars behind the man being shot. Seattle is a fairly crowded city. Still, I'm just relaying what witnesses are saying and waiting for the 'official' version.

[Pavulon]

82. If they all hit the bad guy

they would either not have enough energy to do damage after passing through a person or end up as skin stops.

[icymist]

83. How did this get from a mentally disturbed person to 'the bad guy'

You seem to be of the opinion of 'The cop can do no wrong' here. Since I live in the area, I'm getting first hand accounts of what is being said that has happened. I can't see the point of continuing to argue in favor of this 'shoot from the hip' type of law enforcement when other options could be available through a calmer response. All Seattle police have walkie talkies on their persons these days, he could have called and maybe this could have been solved without firing off the gun? So far, I heard from two witnesses that the man was just standing there.

[Pavulon]

84. with a knife

the cops do plenty wrong, if the guy had a knife should they just wait for him to go stabby.
Maybe, shit, maybe he could have conjured the ghost of freud.

[icymist]

85. A whittling knife.

Let's start arresting cooks and store keepers selling cutlery. Those are knives. Should we wait around until these people go crazy and stab somebody? You may like Freud, but I'll still go with Jung; could be that this officer wanted to live a 'Dirty Harry' archetype.

[Pavulon]

86. sounds like a target pistol..

mentally ill people need care, dump them on the street this is what you get.

[Lilith Velkor]

95. Hard of hearing dude, 3' whittling knife, cop jacked up on 'roids and/or meth, bad combination.

FIFY.

[Regret My New Name]

97. Assume much?

Currently, it sounds like it was excessive on the cops end (I could be wrong though). Still, you're assuming a lot based on whatever preconceived notions you have. What if the cop is a skinny little guy who never touched any sort of drugs in his life, but was just a power tripping prick or an inexperienced cop who made a fatal error?

[Lilith Velkor]

104. Yes, I assume anyone who overreacts like that is probably on something.

So fucking sue me.

If the cop was a skinny little guy, the probability of it being steroids is much higher.

[Supply Side Jesus]

101. "Back to her"

how the fuck can she determine his stance was aggressive?
Any attorney can chew this "witness" apart on the stand.
pathetic cop haters tout this as a smoking gun...pathetic

[Pavulon]

71. You know what killed him, "one flew over the cuckoo's nest"

since we no longer care for the mentally ill in medical facilities this is their fate. We dump them in Jail and on the street.

[boppers]

73. ...Or we dump "them" into police uniforms.

Too many mentally unstable, chronically fearful, cops out there leads to lots of unnecessary deaths.

[Pavulon]

74. Like I said earlier. Try this in berlin and they will shoot you dead.

cop hating while amusing is not root cause.

[skoalyman]

75. best not take any viagra by accident in public

specially at a steak house dangerous combination:hide:

[Missy Vixen]

90. There was another police shooting in the Seattle area last night

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2012772870_fed_way_cop_shoots_man_suspect.html

He stole a vehicle. Allegedly. He's now dead.

Also, I noticed the quick mention of the "3 1/2 inch fixed-blade knife" on the news last night, complete with photo. It's not illegal to carry a knife of those dimensions here.

Typically, I defend the police, but I have lots of questions about three different incidents in 24 hours. All three resulted in dead people.

[superconnected]

94. +1000

[Missy Vixen]

96. There's an article in the Seattle PI this afternoon

stating that the victim of the Seattle shooting was deaf in one ear.

It's also interesting that his alcoholism and "long history" of arrests are also being publicized. Those arrests are for "lewd behavior" or "indecent exposure" - in other words, he was most likely relieving himself on the street or something. I'm thinking the Seattle Police Department are attempting to smear the victim. The SPD is also looking for "additional video" of the situation. The cop's dashboard cam only got audio of the event.

It looks like SPD might be writing a VERY large check to the deceased man's family. Let's see here: Steal a car. Get shot to death. Whittle on the street in Seattle: Death sentence.

Again, typically, I support the police, but three incidents in 48 hours are about three too many for me.

[tabasco]

98. Criminal.

Lock the murdering cop up for life.

[fascisthunter]

99. Lock the Cop Up

too much for this brainiac to handle... his mistake just cost a life.

The police force needs to weeds out these numb nuts before they hit the streets.

[Supply Side Jesus]

100. *sigh*

A knife is a lethal weapon, and will be met with lethal force. Walk away from Hollywood and get real people. A knife can kill or maim, and a cop will not take that chance.
you don't use a taser in a lethal situation, you have obviously never been on the firing end of a taser fail. and they do happen.




Two cops were gunned down the other day, and hardly a peep from people here. A tragic shooting occurs where the facts are little known and the board catches fire with speculation and immediately the officers are labeled murderers.

Stay classy DU