Fla. minister determined to hold 9/11 Quran burn

[kpete]

Source: Associated Press


Fla. minister determined to hold 9/11 Quran burn
AP

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer Mitch Stacy, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 9 mins ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy said Wednesday he was determined to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, despite pressure from the White House, religious leaders and others to call it off.

Pastor Terry Jones said at a press conference that he has received a lot of encouragement for his protest, with supporters mailing copies of the Islamic holy text to his Gainesville church of about 50 followers. The plan is to incinerated the Qurans in a bonfire Saturday to mark the ninth anniversary of 9/11.

"As of right now, we are not convinced that backing down is the right thing," said Jones, who took no questions.

Jones said previously he has received more than 100 death threats and has started carrying a .40-caliber pistol since announcing his plan to burn the book Muslims consider the word of God and insist be treated with the utmost respect. The 58-year-old minister proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100908/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning

[whathehell]

1. I just heard someone on the Ed Show give a good "First Amendment" suggestion:

Get a group of people to put out the fire by throwing buckets of water on the pile.

[movonne]

2. It sure sounds good to me.....that is showing the rest of the

world that not all Americans feels this way...

[global1]

3. How About No Press Coverage Of The Burning........

if they must burn them - let them - just don't give them any coverage in the media. No pics, no cameras, no reporters, no stories in the newspapers or on TV.

[whathehell]

11. Great idea....

but not likely to happen.

[nyy1998]

14. That would be nice, but this "pastor" is in it as a publicy stunt

I like the water idea, also it would be great if they could send some soldiers to help back up what Petreaus says

[Bluestar]

4. Last time I checked, it is illegal in most cities to have an open bonfire

Why not slap him with a violation and haul him away just as they are lighting the fire? He could be being processed at the local jail until 9/12/10.

Why don't some gov't officials find some way to screw with this guy and his church to gently influence him to call off this travesty. Fire inspection, building inspection at the church, anyone? I can't believe there is not some way to harass him into calling off this ridiculous play for publicity. I wouldn't suggest such things normally but I do believe Petraeus when he says it puts our troops in harm's way.

[glinda]

12. How about the Fire Department to hose it down and give him the Bill.

[whathehell]

13. I have a feeling those government officials you're thinking of are planning that right now

and I hope they do...This mofo should NOT be allowed to put our troops in harm's way.

[superconnected]

5. I was sure they'd call it off.

Terry Jones sounds like he'd make a great freeper - he has obstinacy down.

[denverbill]

6. I don't know how His Ass-Holiness Terry Jones can consider himself a Christian.

Christians don't deliberately offend other people.

I can't see Jesus burning Korans.

[Roland99]

7. Geez...what an attention whore.

http://files.sharenator.com.nyud.net:8090/1945look_at_me_attention_whore_Holy_Awesomeness-s315x429-33471-580.jpg

[Chicago dyke]

8. pretty girls on beaches don't command

the same rates as attention whores like this guy. just sayin.

and yes, this is all about his little "church" and the fab media attention he's getting himself. to be an international controversy must make his mini penis very hard. never mind countless american troops and muslims around the world will die as a result.

i'm sorry the WH chose to call him, if that's even true. the right response would have been, "in america we have freedom of speech, but also the freedom it ignore. the WH encourages all americans to ignore this guy, or to hold religious tolerance rallies as a counter protest." shit, if the WH really cared, they would've sponsored one, and sent down a couple of WH media celebrities to make headlines.

[Roland99]

9. best I could muster on short notice

But, yeah, I agree.

The WH is WAY too quick to follow the demands of Faux News and the rest of the sensationalistic media.

I'm so glad I gave up cable TV.

[nyy1998]

15. It's still a funny pic, lol

[notadmblnd]

10. Why can't the media just boycott it?

If he doesn't get the attention he wants, maybe he'll just go away?

[Taverner]

16. I don't want to be anywhere near him or his church

My guess is it might not be a safe place afterwards

[Akoto]

17. US church to go ahead with Sept. 11 Quran burning

Source: Associated Press

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) -- A Christian minister vowed Tuesday to go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite warnings from the White House and the top U.S. general in Afghanistan that doing so would endanger American troops overseas.

Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center said he understands the government's concerns, but plans to go forward with the burning this Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the attacks.

He left the door open to change his mind, saying he is still praying about his decision, which was condemned Tuesday by an interfaith coalition that met in Washington to respond to a spike in anti-Muslim bigotry.

Gen. David Petraeus warned in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan - and around the world - to inflame public opinion and incite violence."

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/Q/QURAN_BURNING?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

---

I live in Florida. This shit just makes me shake my head. I guess the whole 'we are praying' thing didn't lead to much reconsideration.

[HockeyMom]

18. This isn't a real church

any more than Fred Phelps's is a real church. No surprise that this is happening in Floreduh.

[Dappleganger]

22. Quite true.

Our state is full of crazy mega-churches and this is one of them. There are some real wackos down here, that's for sure. Most of them tend to be inland it seems.

[sasquuatch55]

27. What is Religion good for? I mean really?

nt

[Dappleganger]

32. Well

my faith is good for me, but I wouldn't presume to impose it upon someone else.

[jberryhill]

45. They run a lot of hospitals /nt

[Tesha]

52. And in a very few of them women can even get the full range of healthcare!

Golly!

Tesha

[jberryhill]

53. Did I say they were absolutely wonderful? No

In some urban areas, they are the only emergency rooms left.

Should they be shut down?

[Tesha]

65. No, just nationalized. (NT)

[jberryhill]

78. Oh Peachy, so the Hatch Amendment would apply

MMmmmm... no thanks. I believe reproductive services should remain available.

In case you haven't noticed, federal facilities can't provide abortions.

[humblebum]

54. This is hardly a "megachurch":

"Jones, who has about 50 followers, gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his small church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." "

[wookie72]

60. Mega?

50 people.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

91. What makes a church a church?

[totodeinhere]

99. It's just as real as the Mormons and the Catholics who fought to enact Prop 8 in California.

Many churches are bigoted in one way or the other, not just this one.

[Ruby the Liberal]

19. The only *possible* good that could come out of this

is that things get so heated that we pull our troops OUT of the middle east. ALL of them.

Unfortunately, with the egos at the Pentagon - many will lose their lives before TPTB give in.

[awoke_in_2003]

30. if the heat goes up...

they will do another surge- guaranteed. We have to act like tough guys :sarcasm:

[demodonkey]

20. I recommended this post because the story is so SICK we better pay attention. nt

[Theobald]

57. Really, how sick do you think this story is?

They are burning a book. All it is is paper with letters on it. Do you get your panties in a bunch when muslims burn the Israeli flag? the Dutch flag? A christian center? A christian book store? a bible? the pope in effigy? 6 christians to death?

How much is 'so sick'? Is burning a book, less sick than any of the above examples?

How does the burning of the koran by a small group of ignoramuses fall under the category of 'so sick'?

[demodonkey]

97. I guess you don't think that burning a cross is so bad either....

...after all a cross is just two sticks hooked together. No worries. No reason for anyone to be hurt or offended if some ignoramuses with hoods on burn a few.

:sarcasm::puke::sarcasm::puke::sarcasm::puke:

[Theobald]

100. Are you honestly comparing the burning of crossess

in America with the burning of the koran in America? One of them has a long sordid history in this country connected the the torture and execution of Americans of African descent the other has no type of serious history in this country. Your comparison is not analagous and is incredibly feable.

[Codeine]

59. Sick is getting all worked up over a fucking book.

Suddenly we're all so observant of delicate religious sensibilities here at DU. WTF?

[wookie72]

61. Seriously?

You can't see how this may be considered a hostile act towards a minority?

If any -ANY- book was being burned, it would upset me.

[Theobald]

62. How is buring a book a hostile act?

They are not throwing people into the fire, they are burning a book.

[wookie72]

67. Have you read their, ahem, literature?

[Theobald]

71. No, I haven't read their literature, and

I don't really care what some pissant group of fifty people in Florida think. Unless they are stoning people to death or advocating the same, paying attention to and promoting their stupid book burning is only helping their cause.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wookie72]

72. Mostly through Bronze Age ideas

i think it's stupid to believe that the ideas of the past have no possible bearing on the events of today.

Im well aware of your lack of sympathy for religious sensibilities. But if this was a mass burning of Justin Bieber CDs, I would still find it troubling.

[Codeine]

80. I'm not saying I like it.

Book burning smacks of Nazism, IMHO. That said, it's clearly protected political speech, and I dislike the vein of discussion that it should be quelled because these primitive fucks might make some other primitive fucks act like primitive fucks. The Heckler's Veto has always sucked. There's also an undercurrent of justification going on here, like the people who are threatening to go apeshit over it will be justified because their Skydaddy was insulted.

[Bragi]

87. Well said

I'm doing my best not to lead my arguments with anti-religious invective, despite my personal proclivities in that direction. My screeds against "Skydaddies" are okay, but yours inform, entertain and amuse. Nicely done.

In this discussion, I'm remaining straight-up freedom of speech focused. I will happily repeat any derogatory phrase anyone suggest on the idea of burning a Koran -- stupid, bigoted, racist, untimely, etc. -- but when the dust settles, I will still defend the right of assholes to say stupid things at the worst time. This includes the right to desecrate religious artifacts for no other reason than to insult and inflame people of that faith. That is protected free speech, as recognized in most liberal democracies.

Sharia law, however, is different. Under Sharia law, it is illegal to insult or show disrespect towards Islam, the Koran and/or the prophet Mohammed. In this way, the constitution of the U.S, and the precepts of the Koran,a re in conflict.

What now? Is America going to pass a law making it illegal to insult Islam? I don't think so. So what then?

[wookie72]

88. No, I understand

and I think they have the right to do it. But I think anyone trying to suppress ideas is disturbing.

[tidy_bowl]

86. Test

Would you get upset about burning an El Dumbo book? Just asking.

[tidy_bowl]

104. If the burning of any book.....

...outrages you, then when were you last at the Saudi Arabian embassy protesting for their burning of hundreds if not thousands of bibles every year? Where is your outrage now? As an agnostic they are all just silly books and I couldn't care less if they burned. But it is the support of the Muslim protection racket here on DU is so disgusting.

[Dappleganger]

21. He was denied a permit to burn...

I sure hope that they receive consequences for burning anything during the most flammable time of the year.

[Codeine]

81. A fine, which is all anyone gets for that sort of thing. nt

[Bragi]

90. Why was this permit denied?

I suspect it was denied because he was too stupid to fill out the burn permit forms properly, but it could also be a way to deny him his right to free speech.

I can't find anything on the burn permit situation. Anyone know where the story might be?

[greyl]

23. More indication that prayer doesn't work. nt

[dkf]

24. So where are all the rights advocates now?

I'm going to be consistent and say "just because you can doesn't mean you should"

[jberryhill]

37. False equivalence

One has the right to go to Harlem and call people "N---r". To do so is absolutely your right. It is also a deliberate inflammatory provocation for no reason other than to be a deliberate inflammatory provocation.

The community center in lower Manhattan is proposed by people who simply want to practice their religion and provide services to the community. They are not, by simply being Muslim, doing so for the purpose of pissing you off.

The book burning is a deliberate act of hate, as is the reaction to a project by folks who are not seeking to deliberately piss off anyone. The fact of the matter is that the "offended" by the community center object to any mosque anywhere, simply because they find Islam itself offensive.

Naturally, you cannot see a distinction.

I oppose hate, and don't engage in it. Having that value makes both situations pretty clear, in terms of where the hate is coming from.

Is it your right to hate? Yes, absolutely. But it is no wonder you get confused. Hate does that.

[tidy_bowl]

106. Your analogy is false....

....the guy isn't going to Harlem or a Mosque or to a public place to burn the books, he is on his own private property. How is that intimidating anyone? It is his free speech right to be an asshole. Question: Would you support anyone, on their own property, with their own copy of the bible, to burn it? The answer would be, of course, yes. Why not here? The answer is to support the Islamic protection racket. When you give into thugs you have already lost your freedom.

[Bragi]

66. I defend his right to be stupid and offensive in public

He's a jackass, his Koran-burning may cause heaps of trouble, but free speech is protected in America, which means terry Jones or any other jackass can ridicule or insult any religion anytime.

This protection doesn't make whatever is expressed right, or mean that I agree with it, but it makes it legal, so I'm opposed to legally prohibiting such speech.

Personally, I would not support changing the constitution to accommodate Muslim religious sensibilities. I think it's time for Muslims to understand that free speech means the Koran cannot be protected from abuse or insult. They have to get over this.

[thereismore]

25. He is still praying about it... now I can rest easy! nt

[Captain Boomerang]

26. Isn't Flag Burning/Book burning political?

I am not certain, but usually if you burn a book it is usually about a principal or ideology that you disagree with vehemently.

(Example might be; Adolph Hitler burning books that are idealistically different to his Nationalist movement.)

If this is related, I believe it is time for that particular church to start forking over taxes and back taxes for being so politically brazen. (Pun intended.)

[cosmicone]

28. Stupid doesn't even begin to describe what this guy is doing. n/t

[glinda]

29. Look at how much free publicity this nut is getting.

[Dappleganger]

33. there you go!

That was the first thing my husband said, that their membership must be dropping so they need the publicity.

[Turborama]

36. I just read that you're local. You might find this VERY interesting

And possibly useful: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9080253

[Dappleganger]

39. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I just want the IRS to shut them down for skipping taxes and being a political machine.

[awoke_in_2003]

31. "Dove World OUTREACH Center" (emphasis mine)...

real fine job they are doing there. What better way to "outreach" than by burning books. I wonder what would happen if I showed up to this event, threw a bible on the ground, and started urinating on it?

[Turborama]

34. I live in Indonesia and being a potential soft target, I take this shit personally

Cheney Inc. want a 9/11 to happen on President Obama's watch so they can say "See! He couldn't keep us safe". This is exactly the sort of deeply provocative event they would love to happen and are probably fanning the flames (pun partially intended) because they know exactly what the repercussions would be if it went ahead.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wookie72]

64. Because, silly us, we thought we were better than

a random sample of "Muslims" whom you haven't even identified by country.

[Theobald]

68. Last I checked we weren't burning

books, a small group of christians in Florida are burning books. I hold everyone to the same high standard, you obvously look down at people and think you are better than them.

British muslims who burnt the St. George flag http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-463552/British-Muslims-burn-St-Georges-flag-anti-Rushdie-rally.html

The Afghan muslims who burnt the pope in effigy http://thelastcrusade.org/2010/06/10/afghan-muslims-burn-pope-in-effigy/

The Pakistani muslims who burnt six christians to death http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/muslims_burn_6_christians_to_death_after_false_allegations/

The Nigerien muslims who burnt three people to death http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=2096

The Egyption muslims who burnt down christian shops http://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CCgQFjADOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2FidUSLL61043&ei=utCGTL69NZOcsQOI7oydCg&usg=AFQjCNFNXPAfR0MP77kXvDCOhULi-uT1Cw

The Nigerian muslims who burnt a church and axed 8 people to death http://olehgirl.com/?p=4059

[wookie72]

70. No, I believe I live in a democracy

YOu know, the kind of government we're supposed to be exporting?

Yes, horrible things are committed by Muslims. We can denounce those and denounce this as well.

[Theobald]

73. Fine denounce the horrible things done by muslims

but the actions of this small group of stupid christians does not amount to a horrible event; it shouldn't even be news. They are burning a fucking book, just like I don't get pissed when a Yankee fan burns a RedSox flag, I don't get pissed when a muslim burns a bilble or a christian burns a koran. It doesn't matter, it has no relevance, it isn't news, this story should have withered on the vine as a lame ass protest by a lame ass group of fundy wackos.

[wookie72]

74. DO I have to make this comparison?

There were just a bunch of thugs in Germany in the 1930s...

Yep, I just lost the argument. Whatever.

BTW, Red Soz suck.

[Theobald]

75. You lost the argument because of your lame ass comparison

not becuase you invoked Godwins Law.

We are talking about 50 schmucks in Florida. This is a country of three hundred million people which means they represent 0.000016%
of the population; hardly the stuff of brown shirts.

[wookie72]

76. So you think that nobody shares their sentiments?

We hear all the time (mostly inaccurately) that religious types don't renounce the extremist activities of the worst of their kind. This is one time in which they are. I think that's a good thing.

Do they have the right to burn the koran? Of course. But it's definitely more of an "inciteful" act than building a mosque.

And the Red Sox still suck.

[Theobald]

77. So denounce them for burning a book

but don't give me this crap about this being 'horrible', 'so sick', etc. These exagerations about some pissant little book burning are pathetic. These are pathetic people, doing a pathetically lame protest, and you are pathetically propagating their message.

Yes there are certianly many americans who share whatever sentiments these freaks have, but statistically speaking I don't think it is a large percentage of the population and I am not afraid of a brown shirt revolution in America. I am afraid of muslim extremists in foriegn countries who are not a small minority of the population, and who have a significant influence on their governments.

[wookie72]

79. Why?

None of these countries have large armies and few have nuclear weapons, and ic they were stupid enough to use them, they would be almost immediately destroyed.

However, these bigots represent a threat in North America (they are in Canada as well). I think that's worth being a little upset about.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wookie72]

84. Key word being "seems"

Unless you have statistics, I don't see the point in arguing.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wookie72]

96. No idea

[Heywood J]

35. Considering his lack of fire permit,

the solution seems straightforward: the second he drops a match, spray the entire pile with water (so they can't be burned for some time) and put him in the back of a cruiser.

[customerserviceguy]

38. What's the penalty

under Sharia law for getting a Koran wet?

[Heywood J]

41. A wet book will eventually dry.

But that's assuming we cared enough about what Sharia law says. I've got more concern for the troops that may die because of this idiot or that he might incite the deaths of others abroad. But soaking those books to the core will ensure he can't burn them on September 11, and it's not likely he would have sufficiently many more.

[customerserviceguy]

49. I could give a crap about Sharia law

but my point is that if you do something that "seems" right, I'm sure there's some obscure Muslim interpretation of scripture that will declare it quite the opposite.

I do care about the troops, but if this burning doesn't happen, it's not like the Taliban will suddenly want to befriend our servicemembers. No matter what you do, as long as you're not exactly their way, they will hate you.

[jberryhill]

43. I dunno, but the Biblical penalty for violating the Sabbath is death

Exodus 35:2

"Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death." (ESV)


So remember that the next time someone tells you about how the US is a "Christian nation" and our laws should be based on the Bible.

What cracks me up are the people who cite similar Quran verses, as if these concepts are somehow unique to Islamic religious law.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jberryhill]

50. I agree, the point is that the adults should encourage them to play nicely with each other /nt

[Dappleganger]

42. He's made it clear that he intends to break the law.

I suppose if it's only one koran he could get away with it, but a pile would probably not.

[Turborama]

40. BBC: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

A small US church says it will defy international condemnation and go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Koran on the 9/11 anniversary.

The top US commander in Afghanistan warned troops' lives would be in danger if the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida went through with the plan.

Muslim countries, the US government and Nato have also hit out at the plan.

But organiser, Pastor Terry Jones said: "We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam."

More (including analysis): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11223457

[Dappleganger]

46. Too bad that pastor

missed Christ's messages of loving your enemies, loving your neighbor as yourself and turning the other cheek.

[Mz Pip]

47. The message Jones is sending

is that there are people in the US who are working to look as batshit insane as they can. "Look at us!!!! We can be intolerant assholes tooo!!!!! Yay for us!"

If that's the message he wants to send, it will be heard my more than just the radical elements of Islam.

[dragonlady]

44. Perhaps someone who could be hurt by this could file suit

Not sure of the exact form such a suit would take, but it would be a private lawsuit, not government action, based on the private harm likely to result from this activity.

[Theobald]

63. Tell me....

Who gets hurt when you burn a book? Who has standing to sue? They are not burning your book, they are burning their own book, so on what grounds could anyone sue them?

[Codeine]

82. Not even.

If some silly, Allah-addled dipshit goes on the religious warpath over this then that is his or her responsibility, not the fault of someone making (an admittedly stupid and bigoted) a political statement in some shitty Jesus Freak church in Floriduh.

[Old Troop]

51. Why do they hate the troops? And by extension, America.

[Politicub]

55. What an embarrassment

I've been listening to the BBC World Service on Sirius, and this story gets mentioned about every hour or so. It makes us look like neanderthals. The sad thing is that the book burning is supported by millions of people in the US. How sick and depressing.

[Theobald]

56. Why is this news?

Some little po dunk church and it's po dunk group of 50 followers planning to burn a book is not news. I don't care if they burn a book, a flag, or a pile of sticks, there actions are only relevant because some idiots are turning this non event into news. The reporters should be ashamed. When they start burning women, stoning gays, or executing people for proselytizing a religion they don't believe in, get back to me, until then all this does is fan the hatred of those ignoramuses half way around the world who believed that the burning of pages with letters on them by a group of 50 ignorant christians half way around the world, somehow has meaning.

[laylah]

85. To paraphrase a Nazi

resister...they start with burning books, they end with burning people.

What a very, scary freak! This is NOT 1st Amendment rights, this is HATE, plain and simple. Who is going to stop them? Huh? Huh? Huh? Certainly not Holder or anyone else in this current conglomeration of power freaks.

Jenn

[ozone_man]

92. "What progress we are making.

In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books." - Sigmund Freud

[The abyss]

89. The are in such good company!

<>

[Gamey]

94. Their stupid, it burns!

[alp227]

95. Do stupid stuff, accept the bad consequences.

In this case the church just wants to annoy Muslims. They know it's a great strategy to incite violence and outrage overseas and then compile out-of-context video clips to deliver the message "Muslims=violent anarchist terrorists".

[SusanaMontana41]

98. What a f*cking idiot.

I'll bet his car is plastered with "Support the troops" stickers ...

[SOS]

101. Doubtful

The communication from the Pentagon to Jones will not be ambiguous.

[Sixathome]

102. It is Hate speech now and IS illegal

It is not to inform but to incite. Yes ,tea-baggers are brown shirts!! The taxi driver stabbed for saying he was Muslim? Free speech?
I am a Muslim born in the US, a convert. Right after 9/11 some patriot ,incited by all the spin against Islam, fire bombed my apartment. We had held prayers there and were known in the neighborhood.We helped people get furniture and registered for school. You know all that scary Muslim stuff. I was 8 1/2 months pregnant and had three kids under 6.We ran through flames to get out! A lady upstairs died and about 10 families lost their home. That's more than a hate crime!
If a swastika is on a Jewish temple that is a crime. 'N...er' in NY Is a crime and stupid.
The Nazi analogy is perfect here. Be afraid! To be complacent would be to re-live history.
I think the guy is crazy but I know that Allah(the God of Abraham) will hold him in account. I will not be drawn in but try to help you in your understanding. I read and the Quran is easy. I don't care if you convert. Islam reveres Jesus, Mary, Moses ,Lot and Mohammed is the last prophet.
If you think that that the last ten years of anti-Islam is not cumulative then I think you are living in blissful ignorance.
I think the Government wants this to happen and then take full advantage in any warlike manner they have planned. Just like 9/11, and the taking of our rights in the name of FREEDOM. This is a controlled burn. He should toss in the Bill of Rights for good measure.

[drgoodword]

103. Surely Freedom Of Speech Is Paramount?

While I find Terry Jones' plan to burn copies of the Koran deeply disrespectful and repugnant, I am amazed that so many here and on other U.S. online forums seem to be putting other issues ahead of the great American right to Freedom Of Speech.

I'm a Canadian, and while I believe America has a number of serious flaws, I greatly admire America's 1st Amendment rights and her tremendous commitment to Freedom Of Speech.

Yes, this plan to burn the Koran is deeply offensive to Muslims and many others. Yes, American troops and civilians may face greater danger because of this book-burning. But what does American stand for--and what are her troops fighting for--if not for freedom, especially Freedom Of Speech?

It is easy to support the right to free speech when those who exercise it are respectful and agreeable. However, the true test of free speech is when someone says something deeply offensive, or commits a non-criminal but offensive expressive act, like book-burning. If Terry Jones' repugnant plan to burn the Koran is such a test, then it seems to me that America is failing it badly.

I think all Americans, in considering this turbulent issue, should recall Justice William J. Brennan's thoughts on the Supreme Court's decision in Texas vs. Johnson, upholding the constitutional right to burn the American flag: "if there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable."

And Americans should also recall what are for me the greatest words of principle ever spoken: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

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[Arrowhead2k1]

109. Freedom of Speech/expression was never paramount. It has always had limits.

You're not free to utter threats. You're especially not free to utter threats at the POTUS, for instance, and good thing too.

We need some limits, and I am beginning to strongly feel that wittingly inciting violence that threatens the security of innocent people should be added as a crime.

[gauguin57]

105. Now that the spectacle has been made, the media can't ignore this (though they should). I worry that

... I worry that, since Jones et al have raised money for their little pissant church through this, other cuckoo-crazy bigots will decide they'd like to burn the Koran and raise money for THEIR little pissant churches, too. And they'll let everyone know through the same media that made this one a spectacle.

Bad, bad precedent.

[Arrowhead2k1]

108. Declare martial law in Gainesville, Florida on Sept 11th, and arrest those people.

I'm serious too. If this is such a national security issue, then extraordinary measures should be justified. Wittingly inciting violence should be a crime anyways, like it is in most other countries.

Freedom of what? Pfft, this is why we can't have good things. Fuck it.