Teen likely to face charges in schoolyard sex case

[Blue_Tires]

Source: Montreal Gazette


CALGARY — A 16-year-old boy will likely be charged with having sex with a 12-year-old girl he met online in front of their friends in a Calgary schoolyard, police said Tuesday.


The pair met last week on a social networking site and agreed to meet at a baseball diamond, police said. Each brought their male and female friends with them to drink on Monday afternoon.


"This was not a mob attack on a child walking through the park. This was a group of youths that knew each other, that had been consuming alcohol and a sexual act took place. That's what we're treating it as," said Calgary police Staff Sgt. Leah Barber, from the child abuse unit.


Because a 12-year-old cannot legally consent to having sex with a 16-year-old, the act is being treated as a sexual assault. Since the victim had not been interviewed yet, no charges have been laid.


One neighbour, who wished not be identified, said she saw the teens from her kitchen window and said they were obscene, loud and intoxicated.


"I'm trying to make dinner and there's a porn show going on," she said.


She did not know the victim was only 12 and tried not to pay attention. As she contemplated calling police, they arrived.


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Teen+likely+face+charges+schoolyard+case/3491663/story.html

[Lightning Count]

1. 12 years old?? nt

[MineralMan]

2. You may be shocked to read this link:

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2009/04/09/US-middle-school-youth-engaging-in-sex/UPI-97681239254158/

"HOUSTON, April 9 (UPI) -- By age 12, 12 percent of U.S. students had already engaged in vaginal sex, 7.9 percent in oral sex and 6.5 percent in anal sex, U.S. researchers have learned."

Read more at the link...It's surprising information...

[Lightning Count]

4. Over-sexualization of our culture.

Nothing like being a 6th grader and going out for a little booze and casual sex.

[MineralMan]

5. No question about it. And not enough education early enough.

This is the legacy of the abstinence-only, keep 'em ignorant school of sex education. When 12% of 12 year olds have had intercourse, things are seriously amiss.

[Lightning Count]

7. When I was 12 we didn't even know what intercourse was.

We were just playing spin the bottle and hoping for our first kiss. Scary stuff.

[MineralMan]

8. I knew what intercourse was, but there wasn't a chance in Hell

that I'd be doing it. That came a few years later, but still too young.

[sandrakae]

20. Oh I knew what it was but I thought it was only for married people.

[quakerboy]

44. When I was 12, ever boy I knew had had sex

Of course, it was always with a girl who's name took them a few seconds to remember... "Uh... Uhhh... Jennifer. You dont know her, she goes to private school."

[Codeine]

78. I certainly had by age 12.

It was with a girl you don't know. She lives in Canada. :rofl:

[Common Sense Party]

10. How widespread are "abstinence only" programs?

What percentage of schools teach abstinence only? Very few, I would wager. We live in deep red Utah, and they have sex ed in the schools.

Are you saying that Montreal has abstinence only teaching?

[MineralMan]

12. Well, the incident took place in Calgary, not Montreal.

I can't answer your question right off the top of my head, but abstinence-only sex ed is pretty common in the South and Southwest, but scattered in other parts of the country. I'm sure I could Google it for you, if you'd like, though.

[MineralMan]

15. Here's a site with statistics on it for 2009, state by state.

I hope that will help answer your question.

http://www.sexedlibrary.net/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.viewPage&pageId=487&parentID=478

[MineralMan]

16. See this link for the state law in Utah, which mandates

abstinence-only sex ed in public schools:

http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&PageID=1251

[Common Sense Party]

46. Nope, not abstinence ONLY. My daughter had the class, and they

discussed all sorts of stuff.

Utah
Schools are required by law to provide STD, HIV/AIDS and sex education. They also must teach abstinence until marriage but are not required to provide information on contraception.
http://www.teen-aid.org/State_Resourses/State_Sex_Education_Laws.htm

[Beacool]

13. How sad...........

At 12 I was still playing with dolls. Children are losing their innocence at a much younger age than in the pre internet and 24hr. cable era.

:-(

[Chicago dyke]

28. honestly, i'm surprised

the numbers are that low. attitudes about sex are very, very different among today's young.

[MineralMan]

3. More info here on the study...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090408145354.htm

[Jennicut]

65. It happens. I was 12 in 1990, and there were plnety of kids having sex then.

In 2010, it is bound to be even worse. 7th grade....

[jberryhill]

6. That article is horribly written

"having sex with a 12-year-old girl he met online in front of their friends"

It took me a while to grasp that the sex was what happened in front of the friends, and not the meeting online part.

[superconnected]

14. I caught it was in front of friends right away, but what can you say about that

I mean this literally is school yard sex. pulled my post. Looks like this was a rape in public.

[jberryhill]

18. That's the other problem with the writing

First off, I'm not familiar with the laws in Calgary, where this happened. In the United States, sexual contact with a 12 year old is generally illegal, regardless of whether the other party is also a minor. The article states, at various points, that she was "attacked", had "friends" of hers with her, and that "a sexual act" happened, so it's anyone's guess precisely what transpired and how. But, again, that's not relevant to the illegality of ANYTHING having happened.

[superconnected]

21. I didn't read the full article, didn't know she was attacked.

I have a big problem with that. Yes the article does need to be clearer now that I look at it.

[jberryhill]

22. I read the full article, twice, and still don't know what happened /nt

[Kweli4Real]

23. The article makes it appear ...

That the sex act was not an attack per se. Rather it was a willing and agreed upon act , it was classified as an "attack" only because it is a crime.

[slackmaster]

9. Please explain the relevance of this story to Democratic Underground

TIA

[Blue_Tires]

17. jurisprudence...

[jberryhill]

24. In Canada?

[HERVEPA]

27. DU police?

[superconnected]

11. dumbass 16 yo. I had a bf who was 16 when I was in High School - I was 15 and he wouldn't even let

me in his car with my shoes off because he told me that constituted a crime in our state - I never found out if that was a real crime but I stuck to his rules. 1982 Washington state.. The 16 yo in this story really should have known better.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

26. Why?

Do you know someone with plans?:eyes:

[slackmaster]

33. I'm still waiting for an explanation of why this story is relevant to DU

All I got for an answer so far is "Jurisprudence".

[whathehell]

35. I see ALL kinds of topics on DU.....

"Jurisprudence" is a fine answer as far as I'm concerned...

I'm wondering why you would even be questioning it..e.g. Why would this story NOT be "relevant" to DU?:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

63. Your displeasure with this OP's existence is baffling.

Everything under the sun is talked about here. What's the problem?

[proteus_lives]

25. Kid's a pedo.

Lock him up. And she needs therapy and a social services investigtion for her home.

[Chicago dyke]

29. the definition of "pedophile" varies from age to age

by which i mean historically.

did you know that in the 15th century in Europe, many families married off their sons and daughters at 12? that's true, and is still true in many cultures around the globe. sexual maturity is defined very differently in different places, and even in the US, it's still the case that in some states young teens are treated as "adults" by laws regulating when sex is legal. is 12 mature enough to consent to sex? imho, no. but that's also a privileged position. which is to say, i live in a country that mostly affords its children a long and free wheeling period of "youth." in other countries where kids are put to work at 5, expected to support part of a family at 8, and get married at 12? a totally different story.

personally, i don't think teens having sex with each other (even stupidly in public) is worth a police action. counseling, sure. but what will anyone gain from putting a dumb teen boy in jail for doing what all other teen boys want to do, even if most of them are smart enough not to do it? nothing. it won't help her either. lots and lots of 12 year old america girls already know all about the reality of sex, for all a slightly more prudish older generation wants to pretend otherwise. puberty ages are dropping rapidly, too. look it up; the average age of sexual maturity has declined significantly in this country, and researchers still don't know exactly why. but anyway, sex "crimes" like these will only result in a fucked up young man coming out of prison at the age of 30 or so, who has spent a lost decade of his life in for doing something dumb, but not violent. where he'll likely experience real rape, and of the homosexual kind, a great deal. locking up people for sex "crimes" is mostly stupid. obviously, i'm not talking about rape, which is a crime of violence and power and not just "sex."

[whathehell]

30. But the definition of "minor"

is generally OVER the age of twelve.

"personally, i don't think teens having sex with each other (even stupidly in public) is worth a police action. counseling, sure. but what will anyone gain from putting a dumb teen boy in jail for doing what all other teen boys want to do, even if most of them are smart enough not to do it? nothing".

Frankly, I'm not sure that "all the other teen boys want" to screw twelve year olds, but maybe you know something I don't:eyes:

"What it will do" to put a 16 year old in jail? -- It will keep THAT statutory rapist away from another child, and hopefully serve as an example to others with 12 year olds on their minds.

[proteus_lives]

31. He's 16, she is 12. That's a pedo.

"did you know that in the 15th century in Europe, many families married off their sons and daughters at 12?"

They also had slaves and died of the plague. World's changed since then.

Why do you think they did nothing wrong?

BTW, when I was 16, I did not pursue or fuck 12 year-olds.

Also your last paragraph scares the shit out of me.

[whathehell]

36. Yes....I'm with you.

I'm not getting Chicago Dyke here at all.

[FedUpWithIt All]

50. I have to disagree with you.

Anymore, there is often less of an emotional gap between 12 and 16 than you'd think. Kids are growing up very fast these days and 12 year old kids can be quite mature socially. It also seems as if older teens are increasingly immature emotionally and IMO the gap between the two ages in increasingly narrowing.

Besides, the truth is that teens have sex. Although the general behavior of these kids suggests the need for some serious intervention, i would not even begin to think of a 16 year old as a pedo for a relationship with a 12 year old. They are both kids. That type of label is too broadly used IMHO. Sex offender issues are dangerous in their lack of sub-definition. As a mother of three teen girls i can definitely differentiate between a scenario of a 16 year old, near peer aged boy, having consensual sex with my daughter at 12 and a 20-25-30...aged man coercing her toward a similar outcome. The laws should definitely differentiate the differences as well.

[LostinVA]

55. That is not being a pedophile, it's having sex with a minor

There is a huge difference, especially with a 12/16 age difference. If he was, say, 22, I would agree. Sixteen is a mid-teen, not an adult.

He should still definitely be charged. He definitely is old enough to have known what he was doing.

[proteus_lives]

71. I disagree.

16 year old boys don't go after 12 year old girls unless they like little girls.

[wickerwoman]

89. Not to excuse it or anything,

but many 12 year old girls are post-pubescent. I was as tall as I was ever going to get and sexually mature at 10.

Having sex with a fully developed twelve year old doesn't indicate lifelong pedophilia (which I believe technically means sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children). It's not a good thing to do, but it's not in the same category of horribleness as having sex with "little girls".

If he knew she was 12, he's a creepy asshole with poor judgement, yes. But that's not the same thing as being a irredeemably a pedophile.

[proteus_lives]

91. I still got to disagree.

I knew girls at that age when I was 16 who "developed". I wouldn't have touched them. Neither would any of my friends.

I think this won't be last time he's got with a 12 year old.

[LostinVA]

106. Most 12-year-old girls don't look like little girls

And, pedophilia is an adult being attracted to a child, not a teenager. A 16-year-old is not an adult by any stretch.

[bloomington-lib]

32. I find it crazy people don't know kids this age have sex.

I understand that maybe the majority of the population has sex a little later but my first time was 12. At the time I thought I was late because lots of people around that age were bragging about their encounters...and not just the boys. Maybe some were just talking but I certainly didn't think GI Joes were all there was to life. This is the time guys are turned on by anything and nothing and to think differently is a little naive.

[whathehell]

37. "kids this age"?...they are not the SAME age....Big difference between 16 and 12...Duhh.

[bloomington-lib]

39. Im not refering to the age difference. Im refering to the people above

who said they didn't even know about sex when they were this young.

[whathehell]

40. There are generational differences, I suppose...I don't think

having sex at twelve years old is a good idea, generational differences be damned. I also KNOW that it's criminal, at least in North America, for a sixteen year old to be having sex with a child of twelve.

[FedUpWithIt All]

51. The differences are not so broad between these two ages as they once were.

12 and 16 is not so wide a gap as it was even a generation ago. Certainly not as wide as it was more than one generation out. Add to this the extremely differing rates of maturity in individuals during that decade of life.

Things need to be considered regarding the social setting of the time, especially when we're speaking of the potential life altering punishment of a teen boy. He was fooling around with a near peer aged girl who's maturity level may actually be more similar to his own than people realize.

[whathehell]

53. "He was fooling around with a near peer aged girl ...

who's maturity level may actually be more similar to his own than people realize".

Sorry, I'm not buying it. A Twelve year old and sixteen year old are NOT near peers, unless, of course, the boy is mentally retarded.

You sound like an apologist for the boy....No big surprise there.:eyes:

[FedUpWithIt All]

57. "No big surprise there"? Care to elaborate what you mean by that?

Do you have teen aged children right now? I have three.

[whathehell]

58. The bias towards males

is not limited to males.

That's what I meant.

[FedUpWithIt All]

59. I have a 18 year old daughter, a 13 year old daughter and an 11 year old daughter.

I am certainly not biased towards males. But i am realistic about teen relationships. Slightly over three years in age span is not as wide as people here wish to believe. It IS near peer aged because it is not uncommon for either 16 or 12 year olds to peer group with 14 and 15 year olds. The likelihood of these two ages having direct social contacts is very likely.

[whathehell]

60. Maybe

in your house...It wouldn't happen in mine. Sorry.

[FedUpWithIt All]

68. Seeing as we are discussing the scenerio described in the OP which did not occur in my house

I find your reply extremely insulting.

[whathehell]

69. I'm sorry, but I'm not the only one here who disagrees

with you on the idea of 12 and 16 year olds being "near-peers"...In addition, your original post expressed concern for the the boy, only.:shrug:

You say you have a thirteen year old girl..If some sixteen year old had sex with her last year when she was twelve, would you be sympathizing with him too?

[FedUpWithIt All]

70. I would not seek prosecution of the boy. I would punish my daughter for not

behaving within the rules of our family. I would prevent her from seeing him forever and she would not be seeing any other peers for a very long time. I would ramp up my communication with her, her own willingness be damned, until we had freer discourse about what led her to feel so little for her own self-worth and her better understanding of the potential dangers she exposed herself to.

I would also contact the boy's parents and inform them, if they did not already know what occurred. I would NOT seek criminal punishment of the boy that would label him in the same manner that true predators are labeled. It rather boggles my mind that it is even slightly difficult for some to differentiate between a hormone addled, *school aged*, teen boy and a manipulative adult predator.


I personally keep VERY close tabs on my own children because i do know what the world is like for kids their ages. I try and raise my kids with a true understanding of the world, as it really is, so that they can effectively maneuver it.

[whathehell]

72. "I would not seek prosecution of the boy. I would punish my daughter"

..That says it all.

[FedUpWithIt All]

73. We have rules in my family and yes i punish my children for CHOOSING to break those rules.

And the fact that you find this unreasonable speaks volumes about you as well. Easier to punish other people's kids for the failings of your own?

I suppose you would be alright and would console your daughter who willingly attended a sex fest at the school playground per her own predetermined plans. Riiiight. Good luck with those kids of yours, assuming you have any.

It was glaringly obvious that you did not respond to my question regarding the ages of your own children, if you even have any.

Nice cut and paste job BTW.

From my daughter to me less than a year ago...

Mum,
I was thinking about you and I decided to write you a letter. I haven't written you a letter in a very long time, and now I can do it all shnazzy and electronically. Do you remember going to see Lord of the Rings on Christmas night, just you and me, and having to leave cause the theater was so cold? By normal standards that Christmas would have sucked, haha, but just know that you being there made it okay. You always filled the gap. I never felt unloved.

Mom, I want you to know that I am very proud of you. I know that you and I can be very different, and that I can be a pain in the ass...often. But I want you to know that I swell with pride when I think of my mother. I am exceedingly grateful for all that you have done for me and my siblings. It makes me so proud that others look at you and are impressed with the things that you have done and the person that you are. And they do. The impact you have on the people around you... it really is amazing. You have helped change more than one life for the better.

I have been dealing with lots of different sorts of people and a lot of responsibility. I can actually go up to a counter and tell them what I want! Ahh...milestones. =] And I was thinking about this. And I thought of you and how so much of who I am and what I have been able to do is because of you. Reebok tennis shoes,Christmases, pretty bedrooms and new clothes every school year, were awesome. But you gave us so much more as well. The things you have taught me and the talks that we have had. The memories. Me and my sisters sat around remembering our favorites for hours the other day. That's the stuff that really sticks. It means so much having those things. Like a little token to keep in your pocket. Something that gives you strength and comfort when things are hard. You gave stability, something I know you didn't have.

I feel strong as a person. I feel like I know who I am. I feel like I have found good things and good people to surround myself with. All of this would be nothing if I didn't know you were there, my support. I am honored to have you be so much a part of me.

Don't worry, no bad news is accompanied with this letter. I just wanted to take a minute to let you know some things, because I haven't in a while. And I am sorry for that.

I love you Mama

-M

To me, THIS SAYS IT ALL!

Have a nice day.

[whathehell]

74. That may "say it all"... for now..

but I suspect your daughter is not yet old enough to realize your obvious preference for males..And why not?..Gee, if you had sons, you could give out "free passes" instead of punishment!

You have a "nice day" too..:hi:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

77. I do hope you're being sarcastic....

Fed up "Mommmy" of three daughters seems to think that if a sixteen year old boy has sex with a twelve year old girl, the GIRL should be punished, but not the boy.

Jeebus...Even the MEN on here don't agree with that...So glad I'm not HER daughter!

[FedUpWithIt All]

80. You really think that is going to fly? The person you are responding to has read my post.

:eyes: That is quite a fanciful leap you are taking there. I was clearly speaking of a hypothetical involving my own child who happens to be a girl. The hypothetical involved the very specific scenario presented in the OP regarding two teens planning to and actually meeting to have sex in a social setting.

If my son, which i am also the parent of, were to behave in the manner the kids in the OP did it would be breaking our family rules he would be similarly punished. AND i would not seek prosecution of the girl just because i want to punish someone for my own lack of parental control. Unlike yourself i do not favor one gender over another. They all get equal treatment.

[whathehell]

81. I don't favor one gender over another....I'm simply aware, as are most here, that a TWELVE year old

is, by virtue of age and maturity, less responsible than a SIXTEEN year old...You, apparently, haven't figured that out yet.

[FedUpWithIt All]

83. You're fun.

One could argue that in some cases a 15 year old girl is more mature and responsible that a 17 year old boy. Or that a 14 year old girl is less mature and responsible than a certain type of 13 year old boy. They are individuals. The world is not as black and white as you like to see it.

Since you are all for gender equality, you'd also advocate criminal action for a girl in a reverse scenario? You would support her possibly being labeled as a sex offender for life for her indiscretion of teen sex even if the boy was actively seeking the sex as well? Or is it only young boys you'd like to hang out to dry?

Would you support a criminal action if the boy was 15? 13? Or is the real issue, for you, the fact that teens have sex at all? Because i assure you, they are and in all types of age scenarios.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

92. I wish you were...

Unfortunately, I find you a tad predictable..and yeah..I'm "all for gender equity" and "would advocate criminal action for a girl in a reverse scenareio"....Duh.

Here's a metaphorical quarter...Find someone who cares.:boring:

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

93. Yeah....Riiiiiight.

You'd have to be in the sixth grade to doubt it..duh.

[whathehell]

76. "I suppose you would be alright and would console your daughter who willingly attended a sex fest"

per her own predetermined plans"

Uh...No..But then I wouldn't let my SONS do it either!...and that's where you and I differ, dear --You have a double standard of "morality" for boys and girls -- I do NOT.

Where's a "consciousness raising" group when you need it?:eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. Wow.

Just wow.

[boppers]

82. Boys tend to mature slower emotionally.

In addition, yes, it's possible that the girl was very bright and the boy was not, the opposite is also possible.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FedUpWithIt All]

87. The issue being discussed is about a 12 year old

and a 16 year old in a consensual situation.


Not a 10 yr old and 17 yr old.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

98. Bullshit.

Psychological "maturity" rarely equates with the onset of physical maturity

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

100. The "tongue in cheek" you just assured me you were using isn't showing here, Lightning

If you don't want to be viewed as a "ped" I think you'd better get with the program I mentioned.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

102. You're "kidding", if that's what it actually is,

isn't cutting it.....Welcome to my ignore list.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FedUpWithIt All]

104. The average age for menses onset is 12.

It have been moving to younger and younger ages as the decades pass but the average age NOW is the same age that the OP refers to. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that this was CONSENSUAL sex between near peer ages. 17 and 10 are NOT near peer ages and it is unlikely they would share peer groups.

Researchers noted the trend 140 years ago. In 1860 the average menarche happened at 16.6 years, in 1920 at 14.6, in 1950 at 13.1 and 1980, 12.5 years.

My daughter began school young. She attended school with kids up to a full year older than herself. Her best friend in elementary school is a full year younger than she is AND in the same grade. This placed her in a social setting where her peers were up to two full years older AND the scenario in the OP placed her one year out from the age differential in the OP. So yea, maturity and responsibility of a 12 and a 16 year old CAN be very comparable.

[whathehell]

95. Again...

You ARE being sarcastic, right?

[slackmaster]

41. I didn't, largely because my dad had a talk with me about it and explained the risks

Like pregnancy, disease, and criminal charges.

[Jennicut]

66. I think it is crazy that some people don't realize this goes on but

I lost my virginity at 23! I was on the really, really late side. I would say the majority of people are 15,16,17.

[lobodons]

34. To bad this kid wasn't in Mexico

where the consent is 12.

[whathehell]

38. Yeah...that's a DAMN shame.

Since it seems the only "kid" you're concerned with is the adolescent BOY, not the twelve year old CHILD...Duh..

Yes..Twelve year olds are CHILDREN...Way to go.:eyes:

Ever wonder how many pedophiles are on DU?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. Word in Calgary is...

This is part of a high stakes game of truth or dare, kids organize dares online and then gather to watch them perform them. Things like flashing in a glass elevator at a mall, peeing off a C-Train platform or in this case public sex.

This happened in a really, really white trash neighborhood,

[jberryhill]

43. I'm wondering what possible truth would be worth this dare

I thought the point of "truth or dare" was that if you did not want to answer a question, on grounds of personal embarrassment, then you had to take a dare.

But utterly debasing oneself in the dare seems to be worse than any truth one might admit.

[quakerboy]

45. Shame in the eyes of your peers, I would guess

That sure seems to work quite regularly to get a lot of people to go along with stupid ideas.

[whathehell]

47. Not to be contrary, but..

I've often wondered what the definition of "white trash" is......Besides "poor", of course.

[Art_from_Ark]

49. "White trash neighborhood"

generally entails garbage in yards, maybe including various vehicles in various states of disrepair, dogs running loose in the neighborhood, maybe organized dog/cock fights at night, drug dealing, and a generally unsavory atmosphere.

[whathehell]

52. I think you mean

"poor".

"Unsavory" atmospheres exist in middle and upper class neighborhoods as well, though the drug dealing may be more subtle and the vehicles in better repair.

[Art_from_Ark]

54. I didn't mean "poor"

I meant what I wrote. I grew up in a relatively poor neighborhood but it was kept up and did not have an unsavory atmosphere about it. No one would have considered it a white trash neighborhood.

[whathehell]

56. Don't bet on it...

I grew up in a working class neighborhood, but in those days (over twenty five years ago) the phrase "white trash" was rarely, if EVER, heard outside of the South.

That phrase didn't gain currency nation-wide until the "Republican Ascendency" of the Reagan administration and I don't view that as coincidental.

I find it a nasty, elitist put-down. If they call poor whites "trash"..What do you think they call poor Blacks?

[Art_from_Ark]

88. While "white trash" may have been more common in the South

I heard the term used frequently in Missouri, and on more than one occasion in Illinois, Indiana and Pennsylvania, in the '70s, before the advent of Reagan. It wasn't strictly a Southern term.

At any rate, in those days, I don't think my neighborhood would have been referred to as "white trash"-- the houses and yards were kept up, there was no garbage in the streets, it was not dangerous to walk around at night. But it was still poor. And it seems like the families of all my friends in that neighborhood, once they got some money, would move out, even though the neighborhood was convenient to all schools and shopping. But who knows-- maybe they thought of it as "white trash". Or maybe they just wanted more social status, like George Jefferson moving from Queens to his Manhattan penthouse.

[whathehell]

96. No problem, but

Indiana and Missouri are (at minimum) borderline "South".

I lived most of my life in a Pennsylvania city and never heard it until the mid-late eighties.

My point is not to decide who "is" or "is not" "white trash"...But I simply don't like the term ..I think it's ugly, elitist and hateful.

Of course, I think it's best if people maintain their houses..We did so in my neighborhood as well..but if people are going to call others "trash", I'd rather it be based on CHARACTER, not "homes and gardens".

[LostinVA]

61. The poster doesn't mean poor -- they mean trashy

Alot of the people they are talking about make good money. Being poor doesn't make you trashy.

[whathehell]

62. Do you know anyone with money

who would live in a neighborhood that looked like the one he described.:shrug:

[bemildred]

48. Oh geeez.

:popcorn:

[Vehl]

67. his is sick! nt

[ObamaIn2012]

79. This is illegal, yet burning korans is legal?

This was consensual. Fuck that.

[proteus_lives]

90. Consensual with a 12 year old girl?

Enjoy your short stay.

[whathehell]

94. There is no "consensual"

with 12 year olds -- not in terms of the law...Get it straight or get arrested. duh.

[LostinVA]

105. oh brother