Sheriffs want lists of patients using painkillers

[Kelvin Mace]

Source: Raleigh News & Observer

Sheriffs in North Carolina want access to state computer records identifying anyone with prescriptions for powerful painkillers and other controlled substances.

The state sheriff's association pushed the idea Tuesday, saying the move would help them make drug arrests and curb a growing problem of prescription drug abuse. But patient advocates say opening up people's medicine cabinets to law enforcement would deal a devastating blow to privacy rights.

Allowing sheriffs' offices and other law enforcement officials to use the state's computerized list would vastly widen the circle of people with access to information on prescriptions written for millions of people. As it stands now, doctors and pharmacists are the main users.

Sheriffs made their pitch Tuesday to a legislative health care committee looking for ways to confront prescription drug abuse. Local sheriffs said that more people in their counties die of accidental overdoses than from homicides.

"We can better go after those who are abusing the system," said Lee County Sheriff Tracy L. Carter.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/09/08/669723/lists-of-pain-pillpatients-sought.html

---

Hey Sheriff Carter? Here's a thought.

If you suspect that a person is abusing prescription drugs, or may be involved in an organized effort to obtain them for re-sale, try this little know tool:

Appear before a judge or magistrate and present evidence that you have "probable cause" to believe a crime is being committed. If the judge finds your evidence credible, he will issue you a piece of paper called a "search warrant", and you can then take this piece of paper to the house, car or other residence of the person you suspect, and perform a meticulous search for evidence of drug law contravention. Things that you discover that do, in fact, contravene the law may allow you to return to the judge and get other pieces of paper to search other things, like a pharmacist's records.

This little know law is found in an equally obscure document called "The Constitution", in the Fourth Amendment to the "Bill of Rights" section.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Doesn't anyone teach Civics anymore?

[Dappleganger]

1. Fuck that!

[molly77]

115. NC is a police state

They raise revenue by giving out an outrageous number of traffic violations. Before I left the Appalachian mountains outside Asheville in 2003, seeing 11 or 12 highway patrol cars in the thirty minute drive into town was normal... roadblocks in my neighborhood outside the city.If I said good morning to the law enforcement person, he seemed like he was interrupted from his job.Returned a pleasantry with a glare.

The Raleigh Durham area was even worse. The police wanted to know why I was there..(visiting my son) and where he lived. My offense , driving an old Honda CRX.

Va. is charging for speeding tickets based on income. Have heard it is the same in NC. Don't know for sure. Anybody?

[AlbertCat]

183. Va. is charging for speeding tickets based on income.

I was gonna say.... we here in NC always called VA a "police state". NC is still better (maybe not in the Mts) On the coast, the only time I see battalions of troopers stopping people is at the usual times: Memorial Day, Labor Day, New Years Eve....



But the draconian measures to policing come directly from crap like the Patriot Act and AZ immigration laws.

[dixiegrrrrl]

192. Va. is charging for speeding tickets based on income.

How the hell does that work?

[boppers]

198. If you're a millionaire, a 300 dollar ticket is nothing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3477285.stm

$340,000 ticket.

[Warpy]

2. Christ! What an asshole!

Fishing expeditions like this are illegal, Sheriff, expressly forbidden in the Bill of Rights.

Now I know you're up for reelection and are in search of a crusade, but harassing pain patients for being sick is just beyond the pale. You are not a doctor and you do not get to decide what treatments are appropriate for sick people, no matter whether or not you like the drugs that help them to function.

Now the DEA already searches local pharmacy records looking for multiple prescriptions under the same names issued by multiple doctors. Sometimes you need to let the nannies we already have do their jobs because it's their job and not your job.

In short, go fuck yourself, Sheriff.

[Kelvin Mace]

8. I couldn't agree more

This IS a political issue. Appear to do something without making any real effort. Sheriffs and DA's benefit from claiming more arrests and convictions, AND the prison-industrial complex LOVES this since it fills prisons with MANY more people.

This is also a PROFIT issue, since whether drugs are bought legally or illegally, the drug company ALWAYS gets paid. Corporate chain pharmacies have little incentive to crack down on obvious abuse since profits in these drugs are huge. And if a few clerks or pharmacists have to die during robberies, well, that's life (well, yours, not theirs).

[deconstruct911]

58. I agree big time

Drug companies aren't out buying Afghan opium now are they? I forget the exact figure of how many millions of Americans are hooked on synthetic painkillers now.

[Kelvin Mace]

117. whether the drugs are legal or illegal

the drug companies ALWAYS get paid.

[deconstruct911]

134. yep

& behind drug companies and private prison companies are the banks which benefit the most from the black market to begin with.

[SusanaMontana41]

99. This can't be legal under HIPAA.

But silly privacy protections never stopped the feds from spying illegally. Geezus.

[BrightKnight]

102. There is nothing about nosey sheriff exceptions in HIPAA that

remember seeing. I don't want law enforcement anywhere near my medical records without a specific compelling reason and a search warrant.

[SusanaMontana41]

104. You speak for me. n/t

:hi:

[Kelvin Mace]

118. I am sure there is a

law enforcement exclusion under HIPPA.

[K Gardner]

150. See my post just under yours - there is an exclusion - for MDs who have access to

all pharmacy records and are allowed to report to law enforcement. It's called the "doctor shopping law" and is a FAR cry from what this sheriff wants to do, but will NEVER be allowed to.

[K Gardner]

147. Tennessee already has a law like this in place, and in my ER, our doctors HAVE reported

"doctor shopping" to local law enforcement. I am guessing this is what this sheriff is trying to replicate; however, he is NOT going to be able to do it because of HIPPA Privacy laws. There are already computer/pharmacy based records, available to physicians, that will show EVERY prescription you have had filled. We are able to pull these up on computers in ERs that MDs have access to. This is NOT the place of a sherriff to do, and the law was enacted to stop the horrendous amt of time and money the ER devotes to people who fake illness, get a million-dollar workup they can't afford, only to get a Rx for pain pills. See below article for example: Note this only involves people on GOVT MEDICAID programs:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A Warren County woman has been indicted in Rutherford County for TennCare fraud involving “doctor shopping,” or using TennCare to go to multiple doctors in a short time period to obtain prescriptions for a controlled substance.

The Office of Inspector General (OIG), with assistance from the Warren County Sheriff’s Office and the Rutherford County Police Department, (name removed) of Warren County.

xxx is charged with five counts of fraudulently using TennCare to obtain a controlled substance by “doctor shopping,” or failing to disclose to her doctor that she had seen other physicians within a 30-day period, receiving a prescription for the strong painkillers Lortab and Endocet. The physician office visits and prescriptions were paid by TennCare.

"The ‘doctor shopping’ law passed by the Legislature is a valuable tool in cracking down on people who are abusing the program,” Inspector General Deborah Faulkner said. “Physicians across the state have applauded this new law and our efforts to stop people from doing this and are helping us develop these cases.”

TennCare fraud is a Class E felony carrying a sentence of up to two years per charge in prison. District Attorney General William C. Whitesell, Jr. will be prosecuting this case.

The OIG, which is separate from TennCare, began full operation in February 2005 and has investigated cases leading to over $2.5 million paid in restitution and recoupment to TennCare, with a total estimated cost avoidance of over $171 million for the TennCare program, according to latest figures. To date, over 1,100 people have been charged with TennCare fraud.

Through the OIG Cash for Tips Program established by the Legislature, Tennesseans can get cash rewards for TennCare fraud tips that lead to convictions. Anyone can report suspected TennCare fraud by calling 1-800-433-3982 toll-free from anywhere in Tennessee, or log on to www.tn.gov/tnoig and follow the prompts that read "Report TennCare Fraud."

[Warpy]

163. The DEA already has a database of controlled substance scrips

filled by all pharmacies and doctor shopping is already illegal. The DEA alerts on anyone with multiple scrips from multiple docs. The Tennessee law just duplicates the nanny state laws that are already there.

The woman you cited in your article was especially stupid since all the bills went to the same place ensuring she'd be caught very quickly.

Still, this is penny ante stuff compared to the diversion by manufacturers.

Just end the drug war. It's not working.

[K Gardner]

179. I knew there was a database, but didn't know it was DEA.. thanks for the info !

[mike r]

3. Next step is random home visits to make sure you're taking your meds

and not anything else. It's all for your protection. :sarcasm:

[txlibdem]

70. Then they'll need access to your computer files and phone records

It's all for the war on drugs, folks, so it's okay.

:sarcasm:

[Kelvin Mace]

119. This is already done

under the banner "war on terrorism".

Started under Bush, defended by Obama.

[Duval]

170. That's what I thought. Horrendous. n/t

[Richard Steele]

80. "next step"? They've been doing that for years. Wake up and smell the FASCISM already nm!

[shanti2]

182. Veterans Affairs makes you do drug tests.

If you are on pain meds like Percocet, Morphine etc you now
have to sign a contract. There are random drug tests to make
certain you ARE taking the medications they give you and that
you are NOT taking anything else even alcohol. IF you fail you
can lose both your access to these meds and your access to
medical care via the VA.  Also, here in Virginia they also
send a list to the state pharmacy boards of everyone taking
narcotics even though the VA is a Federal institution and
federal land.

[indepat]

4. Little budding KGB and SS jack-booted thugs and wannabees?

:shrug:

Edited to change KBG to KGB

[Mimosa]

7. Our once freedom loving country is headed towards fascism. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

116. +1

[Sinistrous]

5. "...the state's computerized list..."!?!?!?!?

WTF is the state doing recording information protected under the privacy protocols of the doctor/patient relationship?

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Generally,

they get to look at numbers and names from the doctor side of the equations. Doctors agree to this as a condition for being licensed to write scrips in the first place.

But neither you or I have given up our privacy/HIPPA rights.

This law will be abused from Day One!

[rexcat]

41. Actually there is a good reason for this...

A physician can find out if the patient is doctor shopping and then not write the prescription. I do not advocate the police having access to this information since they will abuse the system and it is health information that they do not have a right to see unless there is a suspicion of wrong doing by some other means and then present the information to a judge to garner a warrant.

All states have computerized records for narcotic prescriptions.

[rasputin1952]

52. That's a physician, not law enforcement...

not to mention how can LE know anything about treating a pt"s pain. The abuse in this situation is unbelievable and will force doctors to undermedicate pt's in sever pain. Everything about this is BAD.

[rexcat]

64. All I was saying is there are good reasons...

for the records to be maintained by pharmacists. As far as law enforcement personnel getting the records, there better be a really good reason and the courts must oversee the process, as in a court ordered warrant. If law enforcement were allowed to access these medical records at will there will be massive abuse.

[rasputin1952]

65. Records for every med are kept by pharmacists. They need to

keep extensive records in case there are medical problems down the road, drug interactions, or reactions to meds that are reported, (or unreported and there is a law suit). Under no circumstances except by warrant from a court and with probable cause should anyone's med records or pharmaceutical records be given to law enforcement or anyone else.

I was a Medic in the Army, and by looking at a an individual Rx history I can come pretty close to figuring out what the person has been treated for. This is just some stinking sheriff trying to look like hero, and he looks like a vulture.

[rexcat]

71. The other reason for keeping records for schedule II drugs is

to help ID people with drug problems and get them into treatment but law enforcement ususally screws that process up when they get involved!

For about 5 years I was taking schedule II and III drugs for legitimate reasons and after a shoulder replacement sugery last year I no longer needed the drugs. I would consider it an complete invasion of my privacy for some asshole law enforcement officer to randomly look at my medical records, as are prescriptions, without legitimate reason and a court order.

As a side note I was a medic and lab technician in the USAF too many years ago and I worked as a clinical microbiologist after I I got out of the service. I am Viet Nam era but was state-side for my 4 years of active duty. My commitment was a total of 6 years, not 8 years as it is now. I did get to be part of medical operations for manned space at Patrick AFB in Florida. I was apart of medical ops for Apollo 17, Sky lab missons and the Apollp/Soyuz mission. For the past 20 years I have been working in clinical research monitoring the Pharma drug trials (oncology and endocrinology) so I am very familiar with privacy laws as it relates to protected health information concerning patients.

[rasputin1952]

72. Cool...

I didn't start as a Medic...but I finally made it Med Plt Sgt and was damn good at what I did...:patriot:

[ovidsen]

203. Yep. A war against those who just want relief from constant pain.

You have done the world a big favor with your post, KakistocracyHater. I didn't care one way or another about acute chronic pain until my wife was struck by a van in a crossing walk 15 years ago, fracturing some discs here, leaving a few others herniated.

She went from MD to MD looking for relief. They all thought she was faking it to get powerful drugs, or recommended shooting up her spine with God knows what.

They she found Dr. William Hurwitz, who wasn't afraid to prescribe her the drugs she needed (Vicodin, codeine, time release morphine). She was almost her old self for the 3 years that she was under Dr. Hurwitz's care. Then the feds raided him.

Since then we have tried, with marginal success, to get the meds that make her feel close to normal again. We even sunk to ordering pills (COD, natch) from outfits in Canada and Mexico. That was a crap shoot. Most of the time, we were delivered what we were promised (but at an exorbitant price), but a few times we received what we think were sugar pills. We found a doctor here in the Atlanta area who didn't seem as professional as Dr. Hurwitz, but was willing to give us prescriptions...but then he got busted.

I wish with all my heart that those fools in the DEA, FBI, etc. realized that for many people, those little pills are the difference from leading a near-normal life, and spending your waking hours sprawled on a couch watching TV, because she's too weak to stand, and in so much pain she can't follow the plot of a Stephen King novel.

[KakistocracyHater]

195. undermedicating patients in severe pain is already happening since Raygun

passed a law limiting Rx. People have committed suicide because of undermedicating their pain, alot of people find a good doctor & then that doctor is arrested & treated like a cocaine dealer.

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2004/pain-doctors-criticize.htm
..."Doctors specializing in pain management are condemning the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) for arresting colleagues for treating chronic pain with prescription narcotics such as OxyContin, the Washington Post reported Dec. 29.

Pain doctors have been arrested for offenses like illegally prescribing prescription narcotics, criminal conspiracy, racketeering, and even murder. In March, Jeri Hassman, a pain doctor and rehabilitation specialist in Tucson, Ariz., was arrested by federal officials and charged with 362 counts of prescribing controlled drugs outside the normal practice of medicine."....

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=45065
"Something is terribly wrong with the way some criminal justice authorities have begun to enforce the law against physicians and pharmacists who prescribe and dispense high dose opioids to treat chronic pain. The necessary balance in pain policy... has tipped drastically in the direction of ruthless drug control and away from compassionate collaboration. This is a recent development. The past five years has generated an unprecedented list of health care providers charged with murder for allegedly providing inappropriately large quantities of opioids to pain patients."

-- Dr. David Brushwood, Mayday Scholar with the American Society of Law, Medicine and Ethics, September 4, 2003"

"The DEA's War on Pain Doctors
by Frank Owen

Twenty-four years after Darlene broke her back in a swimming pool accident, crippling pain still rules every aspect of her life, from getting up in the morning (which she describes as akin to "climbing the highest mountain") to falling into a fitful sleep at night. After years of botched surgery that left her in even more agony, she knows there is no real cure for what ails her, but thanks to synthetic opioids (which include such regulated substances as Vicodin, Dilaudid, and the devil drug of the moment, OxyContin), she says that she can now lead a halfway normal life. Just folding sheets or washing dishes or sitting at the computer are daily miracles for Darlene, who claims she would otherwise be bedridden and suicidal without the chemical crutches that high doses of these powerful opium-like painkillers provide."...
http://www.opioids.com/offshorepharmacy/deapaindoc.html

[Mojorabbit]

98. It is also for the DEA

and they keep track what pain rx Doctors write. It is one of the reasons people are under medicated for pain in this country.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Trajan]

140. What a silly statement ....

"Only someone who enjoys getting high/hooked on opiates would make a ridiculous statement like that."

As much as these drugs are being abused by some, the poster statement that others are undermedicated to control their pain implies THEIR pain is real, and their need is legitimate ....

To accuse the poster of being hooked on opiates is simply beyond comprehension - You have ZERO evidence that this is the case ...

Ridiculous ...

[freebrew]

142. +100

I have to use opiates for arthritis pain. The new 'magic' drugs like celebrex do not work for me.

I AM undermedicated because I have a new doctor that doesn't know my drug history and won't prescribe the meds I need for fear of a sheriff like the one mentioned.

[pecwae]

168. Obviously, you've never suffered

chronic or needless pain or you would never have made such an ill informed post.

[The Flaming Red Head]

171. Even dying Hospice patients are under-medicated

due to this insane un-winnable war on drugs

[cybersleuth58]

173. "pain meds are being abused by many many people"

Actually the fact is that patients with (legitimate, long-term) pain are chronically under-medicated.

Your attitude is, unfortunately, part of the problem. I am a person who suffers from degeneration of my vertebrae. My discs are also all calcified. I tried surgery but surgery was not effective. The neurosurgeon thought they would be able to use a titanium appliance for my cervical spine. But the appliance could not be anchored as a result of the poor condition of the bone. I was closed up and told to learn to live with it. I did so as long as possible. Gradually I became less and less able to do the kind of activities we all do every day. I needed help even getting out of bed to get to the bathroom. My physicians had strongly recommended a specialist to control pain but I was ashamed and refused to go. I got to the point where I had a service revolver to my head. I was bed ridden and home bound. I was taking a handful of tylenol and anti-inflammatories per day with no relief at all. I had a major bleed from motrin several years ago and came very close to death.

Drug seeking behavior is not only exhibited by persons who are addicted. It is also common in people who have a chronic condition which involves pain that has not been treated adequately. Don't assume that the woman who went and got multiple prescriptions for pain relievers was simply looking to "get high". I have know cancer patients who have done the same bc mainstream health care professionals are not taught how to recognize nor how to treat patients with chronic pain. She may have thought this was her only option. Unfortunately short term pain killers like percocet only exacerbate the problem bc the pain level spikes very quickly after the drug is ingested. So you have very short intervals of relief which contribute to the need for many many doses.

I finally realized that putting a bullet in my brain was a lot worse than having to take whatever medication they recommended. Since then I have taken opiates, prescribed by the pain specialists. As a result I am able to do my own care, I do my food shopping now, and am looking for some type of employment that I can do from home bc I do need to lie down a lot. If tomorrow this kind of law were enacted in my state I have no clue what I would do.

When I did eventually go to a specialist I learned I had virtually destroyed my liver with acetaminophen. All bc I was so terrified of being "addicted" to narcotics. A lot of that terror was a fear being placed on some "watch" list(similar to a child abuse register.) It is not a big leap between putting on a watch list and then the insurance companies refusing to pay for pain clinics bc pain patients are seen as undesirable persons to society. They are already close to implying that pain patients are drug dealers with this kind of law. Since the war on drugs is not working, to keep the federal funds flowing law enforcement has turned to persecuting patients with chronic, severe pain and the physicians/health care professionals specifically trained to treat them. That's your tax dollars at work folks!

Just so you know, for eight years I have never asked for an increase in my dosage, even though I am asked if I need an increase. My long term provider recently left the practice and I have begun seeing her replacement. Both are very pro-patient and work very hard to build a relationship with their patients. They make it very clear that the clinic is not a candy store. What healthy people do not realize is that until they are injured or become chronically ill - our pain is just as real and needs to be treated like any other medical problem. I am fortunate bc I have obviously abnormal MRI's and CT Scans. My health care providers prescribe narcotics for my problem in the same way that insulin would be used to treat diabetes. I take them bc they have given me back my quality of life. Please don't let politicians change that. It is being done to advance their own personal agenda.

[SheilaT]

188. You give a very vivid description of

what life is like for someone in chronic pain. I just hope that everyone who's read this thread since you posted, has read it carefully.

There really, really is a problem with undertreatment of pain. There is a totally b.s. perception that taking strong pain meds for real pain will addict you. What I'm really sorry to read is that you delayed getting the right medication for so long, and did such damage to yourself. But it's heartening to see that you finally did, and that your quality of life is improved.

[CountAllVotes]

193. understand!

:hi: and welcome to the Democratic Underground.

You'll find plenty of support here in various groups that you can join.

I am glad to know that you are getting some relief for your pain and that you are able to do some of the things that you want to do.

Hang in there and know that you are not alone! :hug:

:dem: :kick:

[Heathen57]

184. Yes, UNDERmedicated

My son has 7 yes, 7 bad discs in his back, 2 of which are bulged into the spinal canal and are pressing against the spinal cord. Since he can't work, he has no insurance. He is on the CICP program the state has for those without insurance. CICP will not fix the problem since it would cost the state too much money.

The ONLY thing that has worked so far to eliminate the pain is Methadone in small doses (1/10 of what they give to a heroin user). The doctor gave it to him for a couple of months, but even with it working, the pulled him off of it because it was habit forming, and they don't like to give out painkillers. Their discount pharmacy doesn't even carry painkillers (Narcotics).

So Yes they do undermedicate for fear the DEA will come down on them. And the ones who suffer are the patients in chronic pain who suffer deteriorating health from dealing with constant pain.

[Time for change]

196. Narcotics are medication for the treatment of sever pain

Millions of people need them in order to lead tolerable lives. You really shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about.

[ovidsen]

204. You are indeed crazy, Joe.

People in otherwise good health who down things like Percocet, Vicodin, Oxycontin, or morphine are doing it for the buzz, I guess. But my wife (7 fractured vertibrae, 3 herniated discs, a colostomy) takes them because she's in severe pain.

And guess what?. She doesn't get a buzz. There's no high. She feels NORMAL. Swings the dust mop with gusto. Washes the car like she was born to do it. And then the meds wear off, she slides back into the couch, switches on the TV and TRIES to read a book (difficult. The pain makes it hard for her to follow the plot).

It is uneducated citizens like you, who believe everything your government (we're here to help you) says about pain killing drugs and how pervasive their misuse is that makes it so difficult for those who really need them to get them.

I hope someday you're hit by a truck while crossing a street and it turns your spine into a jigsaw puzzle, with the accompanying agonizing, excruciating pain. Here's hoping you have a spouse or companion who is kind enough to get you a glass of water because you can't move.

On second thought, I don't. I wouldn't wish that kind of torture on anyone.

[CountAllVotes]

151. agree

many people with chronic pain problems cannot and do not get the medications they need to live a semi-normal life. This may be a situation of needing small amounts of narcotics in order to do things like walk, move and do normal things in life.

I'm really upset about this as I do agree with you being there myself. Many people use these drugs for good reason and that is why they exist.

Having had 4 major open abdominal surgeries in less than 9 mos. I know what pain is all about. There are times I have wished I was just dead because the pain has been so horrific.

:kick: & recommend.

[Recursion]

157. My last room-mate had 4 OC scrips

And sold his pills every month.

Why is it that he can get the pills with no problem but people with actual pain can't?

[CountAllVotes]

159. why don't you ask him

and ask his doctor the same question. Maybe his doctor writes out scripts without really knowing how real his pain problem is perhaps?

How would I know? I do not know your roommate.

[Sinistrous]

96. My thanks to all who commented above.

I just have a reflexive distrust of law enforcement.

[CountAllVotes]

156. just FYI ...

their is no such thing as doctor/patient confidentiality. I found this out in a strange way.

I was searching for my maternal grandmother for years. I finally found her and obtained a copy of her death certificate a little over a year ago. The certificate stated that the cause of death was an abdominal aortic aneurysm. This is a very serious/deadly condition and it is also considered to be congenital; occurring most commonly in males.

After finding this out, I told my doctor about this.

Not a week had passed and I received in the mail a notification from the local hospital that they were doing screenings for ABDOMINAL AORTIC ANEURYSMS in a few weeks and the cost was $130.00 should I care to be screened for this problem. :wtf:

I queried my doctor about this event and she said she didn't know why this happened and said it was a coincidence. I have never in my life ever heard of this condition until I came across it. It appears in my COMPUTERIZED medical record however. Said record is filled with a multitude of heinous error I will add.

Pisses me off to all hell but at least I know that not a thing I say to a medical "professional" is the least bit "confidential". :grr:

As Mike Malloy often says, "Watch your back". Boy is he ever right! Everything you say may end up being recorded in some twisted way in your medical records. I guess it is up to the individual to dispute these errors that will follow you for the rest of your life. :mad: :argh:

So much for the great "success" of computerized medical records - they suck IMO!!


:kick:

[boppers]

199. Uhm, birth and death records are public.

Step 1: Search public death records for people who died of a congenital defect.
Step 2: Find their children via birth records.

No computer or breach of privacy needed... thought they do make the process faster.

[CountAllVotes]

201. never knew who my grandmother was

My mother was adopted in the deep south in the 1920s. She never knew who she was so we never knew who to look for. I swore on her death bed that I would find out some day. I searched and searched as she did her entire life. I managed to find her real mother ironically. It was not an easy task, believe me. I am lucky to have found her and now I do have some information about my late mother and who she was.

Death certificates are public records yes. However, in this case I had to send a copy of my driver's license in along with a signed statement that I was indeed this woman's grandchild and also the fee for the death certificate.

Not a simple process by a long shot.

[joeglow3]

164. Ummm, this was included in the health care bill.

Go to a hospital and they will have you sign a form opting OUT (you are automatically opted in). It is all for electronic data purposes so it can be kept in a centralized database. Needless to say, I opted myself and our kids out because I do NOT trust the government (and this reaffirms that skepticism).

[NashVegas]

186. Aren't you Glad We Do Everything On Computers Now?

It makes everything so much easier ...

[fascisthunter]

6. "May I Zee Yoor Paperz"

[Ghost Dog]

13. They tend not to say "May I?". n/t

[fascisthunter]

141. good point

[Bette Noir]

10. Yeah, it'd really make a cancer patient's day complete

to have the sheriff snooping around, to see whether he really needs to be on morphine.

[SusanaMontana41]

100. Well sure. They could e-mail the videos to Bill Frist,

who, after seeing the videos, would e-mail to law enforcement his medical opinion on the diagnosis/treatment plan.

[cybersleuth58]

174. Yeah, it'd really make a cancer patient's day complete...

Exactly. It is bad enough that the insurance companies give themselves the right to second guess our physicians. Now all we need are law enforcement personnel, some of which have a GED for qualifications.

[Newsjock]

11. Allergy sufferers are already treated like criminals for using pseudoephedrine

And heaven help you if you try to buy "too much" ... it's off to the hooscaw for you, you evil meth-head.

[Betty88]

14. It just took me 15min to buy Advil

This crazy meth law needs to go. I had to wait in line at the pharmacy and hand over my id to get a box of advil. I guess I could have gotten something that does not work as well for me in just 3 min at the regular check out, so really its my own fault...

[RamboLiberal]

17. +1 on That - yet times I've brought this stupidity up

I'm shocked at the number of DU'ers who defend this insanity that the rest of us endure just to curtail meth producers.

And getting back to the OP - there are people in this country forced to endure incredible pain because doctors are afraid of prescribing narcotic painkillers because of this shit.

Still pisses me off when I remember the 60 Minute story I saw of a guy in a wheelchair who went to prison in FL cause he didn't dot all the i's & cross all the t's in getting Oxy while Rush Limbaugh just skated on the charge.

[Recursion]

129. OK, but there are tons of shady "pain management clinics"...

...where a pulse and some cash can get you a scrip for OC.

[MedicalAdmin]

145. Name one of these thousands of pain clinics

Are any of them run by Reagans fictional welfare queen?

[Recursion]

155. Did you hear about the law Florida passed?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/health/some-mri-centers-help-addicts-dealers-get-pain-97415.html

http://www.examiner.com/city-buzz-in-miami/so-fla-pain-clinics-attracting-drug-dealers-from-all-over-is-new-law-too-weak-to-stop-them

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/apr/06/proliferation-pain-clinics-south-florida-raises-co/

[cybersleuth58]

177. there are tons of shady "pain management clinics"

There are tons of shady everything! But many clinics require a thorough compilation of medical records with corroboration such as scans, X-Rays and other diagnostics. Mine required me to agree to non-opioid medications and invasive treatments like spinal injections first. You are required to sign a contract which forces you to use one pharmacy. If the pharmacy does not have an adequate supply, they fill it with what they have on hand and void the rest of your written prescription. You must obtain a new written prescription for the balance of the pills the pharmacy did not have in stock. The pain clinics prescribe just enough opiates that you run out on the day you fill your next prescriptions. They pull unannounced, unscheduled urine tests for drug screens. On top of that, they can call you out of the blue and make you bring in your prescriptions so they can count what you have left. My first clinic required me to attend a seminar on narcotic pain killers, even though it was a two hour drive at night for a three hour class once a week for three weeks. So, even when you have a great relationship with your care provider you are still treated like an addict and that's bc the DEA requires it.

[PJPhreak]

84. You need ID to Buy Advil??

I know that a lot of OTC drugs are used to make Bathtub Crank (Please don't call it Meth,It isn't...What people make in their Garages and Basements is Garbage.) But I was under the impression that Advil was not one of them.

[Betty88]

108. Yep its one of them

Its a big pain in the butt as its just about the only thing that I can take and not fall fast asleep. It the stupidest law as if the people who use it to make whatever.. will be stopped by it.

[Thor_MN]

127. Ibuprofen (Advil) is not what you had to show ID for, it's the pseudoephedrine hydrochloride

in Advil Cold & Sinus. Pseudoephedrine is (unfortuantely) very similar to Methamphetamine and needs relatively little manipulation to change it into Methamphetamine.

Plain Advil would not require ID.

[Betty88]

149. Correct Cold and Sinus requires ID nt

[Dappleganger]

29. We go through this every fucking month.

Don't get me started on getting a script for a decent pain med for more than 10 days at a time.

[SkyDaddy7]

12. If this happens in Georgia then I will have to leave...

I had a spinal cord injury 7 years ago & have been on Oxycontin & Percocet for 7yrs...I know they will watch everyone who has a prescription & then they can make up anything they want & take me to jail...Just to watch me detox in a cell! This is fucking scary as hell! I wibe calling my doctor tomorrow!

I have to take the Oxycontin once every 12 hours or I will get very sick! I know, I have been late before and it is the worst feeling in the world!

The reason I say this is because I use to work in the criminal justice "arena" & some of the cops I know use to joke about people detoxing in jail & they thought it was funny!

What is happening to America?

[Dappleganger]

30. I hear you.

I have to take the strong stuff myself and it's a real chore.

Fuck that and fuck THEM.

[SkyDaddy7]

113. I totally agree...

FUCK THEM!

[era veteran]

114. I hate it that I have to take that shit but the alternative

for me would be dreadful pain and trip to poorhouse. I figure I will be able to work to about retirement age and then I will conveniently die.

[madmax]

77. My son is on those same meds for the same

reason. Your post could have been written by him. He now lives in NJ but, is closing on a house here in NC Friday. I emailed this article to him.

[SkyDaddy7]

112. I am sorry to hear that about your son...

Pain is so shitty to live with! I played soccer my entire life & actually played in the military...All along the way I had broken bones (finger, shin bone, toes), pulled muscles, tendons & ended my career with torn acl & mcl in my knee that required a totally knee reconstruction...This surgery happened in the military & I had to be back in world mobility qualification within a year or get booted...I was! I thought I knew what pain was all about until I had my spinal cord injury!

NOTHING AT ALL compares to Neuropathic Pain! NOTHING! It feels cold, yet burns, stinging pain that even the wind from the ceiling fan aggravates it is so sensitive! My spinal cord injury was at C: 4-5 & C: 6-7 so the Neuropathic Pain engulfs my entire left side from the chest down to include some of the most sensitive parts of my body. They originally put my on Oxycontin for this and the intense muscle pain I have in both legs...However, the narcotics did not do much for the Neuropathic Pain other than help me relax, which does help, and it really helps the muscle pain! Although the Oxycontin still helps a lot for the muscle pain then relaxing effect (The High) that helped me rest did not last long so I spent almost two years mostly in a dark room isolated from the world wondering in my mind how long I could live like this. Then I was able to get "some" relief from a drug called Lyrica. It takes the edge off and allows me to actually move around enough to take care of myself during the day while my wife is at work. However, I spend most of the day in bed, very still with blankets on my left side to keep the wind off my body.

I know to someone who has never experienced neuropathic pain this all sounds like I am over exaggerating and I can understand that because I would have thought the same thing before I got to experience it personally.

Having said all that I consider myself lucky because I should be paralyzed from the chest down but I am not! I can actually walk very short distances in my house & use the bathroom on my own most of the time. I pay for this luxury with pain. I know several people whom do not have this luxury & so I think of them when I get down.

If your son has neuropathic pain and has not tried Lyrica then he might consider it...Like all meds that actually work it is VERY EXPENSIVE! For my RX it cost around $260 a month! However, my wife & I are actually divorced because my insurance dropped me about a year into this nightmare after my pain therapy got so expensive they canceled my policy with no warning! We divorced so that my income would be low enough (33K was not low enough! WTF?) so that I could enter into Medicare without having to pay huge premiums...Well, considering after the divorce my income was now 12K, my SS Disability, I tried several times to enroll in a program through Pfizer to get my Lyrica RX free from them. I was denied twice as they said my income was too high it must be below 10K & you can't have any insurance at all! WTF? that was until the health care debate started then Pfizer changed their policy in mid summer of 09 well before the HCR Bill passed...I was accepted into the program and get my Lyrica free. I have no idea if this abrupt change had anything to do with Obama's deal with the drug companies that everyone got so mad about but if it did THANK-YOU OBAMA!! I know that sounds selfish but my wife and I can't afford my drug cost even with Medicare Part D...Oxycontin is $200 a month plus my other meds.

I hope your son finds relief & is not harassed by this insane plan to strip people's right to privacy simply due to a medicine they are taking legally!

Ok, I apologize for ramblin on & on...Talk to you later.

[CoffeeCat]

128. I feel your pain...

Oh man, it sounds like you have really endured a lot of pain in your life, due to the toll
that soccer took on your body. I hope you are feeling better today and that your pain is
managed well.

You described back pain perfectly. I had horrendous back pain. The problem was--I was
five months pregnant with my second child. The doctors would not give me anything but Tylenol.
I couldn't even get an MRI. I couldn't even walk. Finally, I had pain so intense that just
putting a blanket on my legs caused excruciating pain. Just as you describe with the ceiling fan
wind causing pain! I called a local ER and the nurse told me to have someone drive me straight
to the ER.

I was diagnosed with a severe disc rupture at L4-L5, after finally getting an MRI. The neurosurgeon
said it was the worst rupture he'd ever seen. I had surgery, five months pregnant (with a ten month
old at home). It was a very challenging time. All went well though.

You are right about the back pain. It's hard to describe, but the pain is different. Searing, cold
and it just permeates every cell.

I can't believe you had to divorce to get proper healthcare. That's crazy. Again, hope you are well today, or
at least managing your pain.

[SkyDaddy7]

172. Thank you for the kind words...

It sounds like you have had not only your share of pain but had to endure a very scary surgery knowing you were carrying a baby! With another at home! I could not imagine the stress that must have put you through...And the rest of your family!

Did the surgery relieve most of your pain? Most of the time if you get it fixed quick enough there is very little damage to the nerve so the pain goes away. I hope that was what happened in your case?

Did your Neurosurgeon trim your ruptured disc or completely remove it? If so, did they fuse the joint with a bone graft or donor bone?

[CoffeeCat]

197. Hey thanks for...

your kind words. I also hope that you are doing well.

The surgery completely cured me. I woke up from the surgery feeling as if the clouds had parted. My back
will never be 100 percent. I get sciatica if I overdo it in the garden or around the house. It's just
a fact of life for me, but I am so relieved and grateful to be pain free.

I didn't have any permanent nerve damage. I had a partial laminectomy. I feel horrible for not knowing
more specifics, but it is my understanding that I didn't have the fusion. He just removed a portion of
the disc.

What about you? I know you mentioned in your previous post that you have had many surgeries, many injuries
and that you have experienced horrible pain. Looks like you found some relief with Lyrica? That's nice
when you can find a solution. And I agree with you--that is it essential to look at what you CAN do. I am
grateful for every step I take--where I'm not writhing in pain! When I put a blanket on my legs with no
pain, I feel grateful--knowing how bad it could be. Plus, there is always hope that things will improve.

It's hard though. And it's no fun that meds are so expensive. That's not right to pay that much for
your meds. But it is positive that you found one that does work and helps improve your quality of life.

Maybe the system will be fixed and you can have a second wedding! Take care, friend--and let me know
how you are doing? What do you do to cope? I used messageboards that discussed pain. It was great
support.

[Kelvin Mace]

123. Well, to answer your question

What is happening to America?

Criminal conservatives, backed by criminal corporations, aided and abetted by criminal/spineless Democrats, up through the current administration.

[SkyDaddy7]

176. I share your frustration...

But calling the Obama Administration criminals is simply hollow rhetoric that serves no purpose. Not that it matters I happen to really like what Obama is trying to do. The conservatives have been tearing this country apart for 30 years & it can't be fixed in 2 years! Especially fighting the Murdoch media empire!

I think you are taking the easy intellectually empty way out by simply calling Obama a criminal. However, if that is the way you feel then you have that right & I respect it...I respect your rights not your baseless statement. I have not seen any reason to call Obama a criminal or reason to say he is no different than Bush, Cheney or whomever the current fad is to compare Obama to.

I have no idea who you and those who share your opinion think could possibly get elected & do a better job than Obama in the current political climate. Yeah, we would all love to have a Congress full of Alan Graysons & POTUS Grayson where all our deepest concerns were taken care of...But that is not reality.

Sorry you feel the way you do.

[Kelvin Mace]

190. Here's a thought

Don't defend torture. Torture is a criminal act. The Obama administration has chosen to defend torture and the government's "right" to employ it.

The Obama admin is going out of its way to defend torture, defend bigotry ("don't ask, don't tell" and the Defense of Marriage Act) and defend domestic spying (warrantless wiretaps).

If they do not wish me to call them criminal, and think them criminals, they should stop defending prima facia criminal acts.

Sorry, people are, in fact, dying while we wait for Obama to get his supermajority. Bush did this damage in eight years and never had 60 votes. Obama and his administration have NO excuse.

I have heard these same excuses before, by politicians (and their apologists) talking about "political realities" and the need to "gradually" change vile policies. The subject then was slavery, and William Lloyd Garrison answered these admonishments to "be realistic" then in a manner that is as true today as it was in 1831.

On this subject, I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire, to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hand of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; -- but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.

Politicians chose the "realistic path" then, and it took 30 years and a civil war to finally do what was right. We then endured another 99 years of "moderation" and "real politik" to go from freedom to equality.

[crazyjoe]

131. If you have a legitimate need, you have nothing to worry about.

[SkyDaddy7]

180. I mean no disrespect but you are WRONG!

I have everything to worry about and you do to, or you should, if law enforcement is allowed to know who everyone is that is currently prescribed certain medicine! Law Enforcement needs to go back & learn how to do proper investigations where they can produce evidence that is enough to get a warrant...And in today's world where judges issue warrants with little or no evidence that should not be hard!

I have no idea what point you were trying to make but I simply do not agree...Actually your comment scares me to think you would be OK with law enforcement being able to have the names of everyone with a legal prescription...What is next? Ok with them tapping everyone's phone to see if they are selling their prescription? With your logic I should be Ok because "If you have a legitimate need, you have nothing to worry about."

Where does it stop?

[Chicago dyke]

15. welcome of my world

pharma users. i use medical mj and for years had to worry about shit like this, and without the "protection" of HIPPA. thankfully people in my state (MI) overcame the stupidity of our lawmakers and their drug company lobbying buddies and said enough is enough.


otoh: i am glad to see law enforcement finally waking up to the fact that pushers are pushers. there really is abuse of Rx drugs out there, and it's ugly. just like i don't want anyone to be pushing or using coke, i don't really want people to be trading oxycontin tablets for cash for food, etc. but the patients are not the problem, obviously. if we had real universal health care, the abuse of Rx painkillers would go down, dramatically.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. If we are after the pushers

then our destination is BigPharma, the biggest pusher in the world.

[HillWilliam]

75. Ding! Ding! Ding! On to the Bonus Round!

The winning answer.

[Warpy]

53. I'm probably giving the DEA heart attacks

because my doc has finally realized I'm not interested in sleeping my life away and has prescribed 3 months at a time to save me a few dollars. I'm a little surprised the guys in the cheap suits haven't been following me around already, seeing who I'm selling that much to every time I renew.

Still, the major part of the diversion occurs at the drug companies, themselves, "losing" a lot of the "seconds" not to recycling or destruction but to organized crime. Much of the rest is from kids who steal pills from Grandma to eat or sell, really hard on Grandma and generally untraceable, or worse, addicted home health workers who rifle through the medicine cabinets. The latter two are penny ante stuff. The millions are generated at the point of manufacture.

The whole business is just unbelievably corrupt and no junkie has ever been stopped from getting his stuff by the stupid drug war.

It's time to end the idiocy and a good first step will be to slap this Sheriff down by defeating him for pulling such a stupid stunt.

[catzies]

16. Hmm wonder what would Rush Limbaugh say?

rhetorical question, actually, don't flame me.

[Winterblues]

32. No need to wonder, he did say it was illegal for the police to do that and he won

Rush got away with doctor shopping and possession of over a thousand tablets of that hillbilly heroin.

[quakerboy]

48. Ah, but I betcha

on radio today, he'd be willing to stand up for those upright sheriffs needing to make their state safer. Any argument made in court on his behalf has no bearing on what the man will say in to his followers.

[awoke_in_2003]

66. Rush is rich...

he can do anything he wants and not get in trouble

[Dogtown]

18. K&R n/t

[blue neen]

19. This is totally against federal HIPAA laws,

and also quite unconstitutional.

[Dappleganger]

31. You trust our court system to uphold that?

I sure as hell don't.

[Mnpaul]

42. You would think sheriffs would know something

about laws. I guess not.

[Confusious]

50. Some sheriffs run for office

they just have to know the right people, not the law.

[Sgent]

46. I don't see how its against hipaa

there's a law enforcement exception to HIPAA. Generally doctor/pharmacist/patient privilege is a matter of state law.

This would be disastrous, but I don't see how a change in NC law could be prevented by HIPAA.

[blue neen]

61. HIPAA is a federal law. Federal law supercedes state law.

There are law enforcement exceptions to HIPAA, however, in my opinion the police would have to prove criminal intent.

There are plenty of citizens of NC and every other state who take pain medications for legitimate, lawful, and legal reasons and who do not abuse the drugs.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. It is not just the pain meds that worry me

it is their access to other data (and they WILL get it if this law is allowed to pass) they will access:

• Anti-psychotic, anti-depression, and anti-anxiety drugs - Hey, we need to know who could "go off" on us.

• Anti-retroviral and other HIV drugs - Hey, we need to protect our officers who might be at risk of infection.

• Anti-biotics - Could be used to used to treat STDs and we must protect our officers.

• Blood Pressure/cardiac meds - As "protection" for people who might be arrested and might resist. We need to know how many times we can taze them.

• Any drug used by my political opponent, his family and supporters - Hey, I've got to run for re-election.

[Gman]

20. An important sentence in the article:

"For years, sheriffs have been trying to convince legislators that the state's prescription records should be open to them."

Nothing new. They probably don't have a chance this time either.

[JDPriestly]

21. Horrors.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. One Word

GESTAPO

[L0oniX]

24. They want us to be in pain. n/t

[seafan]

25. Goodbye, Fourth Amendment rights.

So now, law enforcement wants to rifle through our physician-ordered prescription drug information. This, does not bode well for protection of privacy, if law enforcement personnel are allowed to paw through these records unchecked. (And, what about criminals posing as law enforcement...)

This continued violation of our fourth amendment rights shows no sign of abating.

U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Here is a related thread on prescription drug databases being used by insurance companies to deny coverage:

Most people aren't aware of this, I'd bet.

[madrchsod]

26. state laws can not trump federal laws....

just another bunch of dumb fucks thinking they can rewrite federal laws.

[Kelvin Mace]

122. If you are thinking of HIPAA and other such laws

they already have exclusions for law enforcement agencies.

[sulphurdunn]

27. All the money the sherrif's departments

will get from Homeland Security grants to buy new computers and hire cyber snoops will create jobs. Who could be against that? We can't let a little thing like civil rights stand in the way of job creation and fighting drugs.:evilgrin:

[Ticonderoga]

28. Then they came for those suffering from pain

But I............

[SoapBox]

33. So if my 89 year old Mom, were in NC, they would want to check her out for her pain meds?

So Mom...89, almost 90, had a dramatic compression fracture of a couple
vertebrae, due to severe osteoporosis.

She has constant pain and takes generic Percocet (10/325) and has a Fentanyl patch.
I administer the pills and apply the patches. We MUST, MUST, MUST by law, get a new
prescription every 30 days. We need a new, HAND written and signed prescrip from her
pain management doctor...I must hand deliver that prescrip; no faxing or calls or
emailing of a prescrip for narcotics is allowed...and the pharmacy will NOT fill it
(Medicare) before a given time frame expires. PERIOD!

So these Jack-Booted Thugs are going to go through her records to make
sure that she isn't some doped up dealer or something?

Assholes.

And NC...your state sucks! You are a prime example of why we have
laws and regulations that come from The UNITED States of America FEDERAL government.

Clueless assholes...go after some REAL criminals.

[Irishonly]

36. I am on the patch also

I am disabled and have medicare. I used to be able to get a three month supply of the patch. Now I have to have a new prescription every month and show my license. All of my medications are in the pharmacy's computer and I can't get a refill of any of my medication if I am a day early. The federal government is supposed to have access to the list of powerful pain relievers. It's insane. Most everyone I know living with chronic or acute pain would rather be healthy than to take pain medications.

[madmax]

60. My son lives in NJ and his Dr. wants him to

take a piss test to make sure he's not abusing his spine pain killers and that he's taking the amount prescribed and not selling them. He told me about this last week.

This may not be a local NC thing.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rasputin1952]

54. And not be given any pain meds!

;)

[dark forest]

35. OK,

this is a REALLY bad idea.

And he's a Republica, too.

[Yeahyeah]

37. Sheriff Andy Taylor was always going through Aunt Bea's medicine cabinet.

Thought she was selling her rheumatism pills to Otis.He would've blamed it on somebody black but he had run all the blacks out of town years ago.

[blue neen]

63. Perfect.

:yourock:

[cleanhippie]

38. Your response is better than anything I could have said. Well put.

I just hope that the reasonable position wins out.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. Well, I will be making phone calls to Raleigh tomorrow.

and following up with letters.

[Prospero1]

39. as soon as the Sheriffs....

release their personal banking records to the public. "We can better go after those who are taking bribes."

[Joanne98]

40. STOP THE WAR ON DRUGS!

[madmax]

62. It's not a war on drugs now

it's a war on sick people who need drugs to be able to barely function through their pain. I think I'm going to bust a vessel tonight.

[opihimoimoi]

43. Implement a PILL COP no less??? WTF happened to our Freedoms???

WE supposed to be FREE of asshole PILL COPS

[girl gone mad]

44. I hate the way pain patients are treated like criminals..

meanwhile every other prescription drug is handed out like candy.

[Honeycombe8]

45. Whoa. That's getting to close to the movie Minority Report....

they want to catch you BEFORE you commit the crime.

I can see the problem that law enforcement has and why they would WISH they could get such a list. But to take it to the next step and actually seek to get it is appalling.

[rasputin1952]

49. NO!

This is personal information under HIPPA and they have no right w/o a subpoena and probale cause to do anything like that. Damend Gestapo tactics. How about we look into his Medical Records!

[TygrBright]

51. Yeh, that's gonna work. No Constitutional issues there. n/t

[bulloney]

105. The sheriffs may be violating HIPAA laws by accessing peoples' prescription records.

[newfie11]

111. YES he will! n/t

[tinymontgomery]

55. I live in NC (8) years now

this makes me seriously think about getting out of this place.

[madmax]

56. FUCK THAT !

I live in NC and take heavy duty pain killers for RA, osteoporosis, 4 fractures in my pelvis and maybe cancer. (They still can't find 'IT'.

Anyway, let one of these hound dogs just try to come between me and my meds and I will chew their eyes right out of their skulls.

Unless you've been there no one can understand how long term real PAIN affects you. People commit suicide to end pain. I'm won't do that - I'll take them out first. :mad: :banghead:

:wtf: Big Brother is real and is sticking his fat face everywhere except where he should be.

I copying this for my Dr.'s with a warning don't fuck with me fellas.

[NC_Nurse]

57. Why don't they try finding some real criminals and leave the poor pain patients

alone? I hate this sort of political grandstanding. People who abuse drugs will find a way. Why not spend more time and money trying to help people with that problem? And leave the pain patients the Hell alone!

[madmax]

59. Bless your heart NC Nurse.

I hate drugs and pills - I don't have a choice. 'They' better stay out of my face. I'm livid.

[The Backlash Cometh]

67. It's all about the drugs, isn't it?

Why doesn't law enforcement open their eyes and realize that there is a lot of crime out there that doesn't involve drugs.

[ShadowLiberal]

68. This would open up us up to a long list of new abuses of power possible by corrupt police

How long will it take for police to start looking at who's using more powerful pain relievers and then start persecuting people whom they deem 'don't really need it' and therefore must be abusing it? They'll say 'you aren't really in pain, you're just saying you have horrible back pain to get this medicine'.

Don't tell me that there's no corrupt cops out there who won't do just that. In Arizona that Sheriff Joe Arpaio has a history of abusing his power to push around local politicians and other people he doesn't like who dare speak out against him, or dare consider cutting his budget for next year. There's multiple politicians who he had arrested on over 100 charges, only for a judge to throw out EVERY single one of them the very next day. And you know what he did with some of those people, he arrested them again with 100 more bogus charges that were also thrown out by a judge. There's others who would be willing to abuse power like this in an over zealous effort to fight the drug war.

[IMATB]

69. I guess

I could be arrested right now if that's the case. I'm taking pain pills that aren't mine because I'm trying to pass a kidney stone. I wouldn't wish this pain on anyone. I'll be damned if I'm going to suffer because those pills aren't mine.

A doctor refused to give me any because he didn't know me well enough. You believe that shit ? It's not like I can't produce the damn stones because I can.

How many visits does it take to get to know me ? Or the real fact, how much do I have to spend before he decides he knows me.

[madmax]

76. My heart goes out to you

My Granddaughter suffered for 3 days to pass a kidney stone. Torture! :hug:

[IMATB]

82. Thank you

my longest was 3 weeks. I did that without drugs, a little liquor.

The poor baby. It really hurts, I can't imagine how a child feels.

That would kill me. I can't stand seeing someone suffer.

[madmax]

103. We now need introductions?

On what level? 'A doctor refused to give me any because he didn't know me well enough'. Where did this ass hat go to med school Palin Medical University of Continuing Pain? He needs to know you? How freaking absurd is that?

You didn't go to see him to arrange a dinner party. I can't put into words how this idea, this article and the actual experiences people are writing about has me blown away.

THREE weeks to pass a stone! OMG, I can't imagine your needless suffering. This Dr. needs to feel some real pain to understand.

I'm working on a LTTE and the writer of this article and will bring it to the attention of my 3 doctors. I'm curious to hear what they have to say about this.

And a belated Welcome to DU.

[IMATB]

154. Thank you

If I knew I wouldn't get sued I'd plaster his name all over the place.

I called my health provider and told them what he did. A complaint may get him dropped from the plan.

I had only lived here a month. Of course he didn't know me, I didn't know him either. I ended up suffering through that episode and finally getting another doctor. She gave me pills the first visit.

I brought her my stones. She thought what the other doctor did was wrong.

That was 3 years ago. I'm afraid to ask any doctor for pain relief so I ask my family when I need.

[Corey_Baker08]

73. As A Student Of Criminal Justice & Future Police Officer I Strongly Believe in The 4th Amendment

Yet I also am very aware that there are so many police officers around the country who trample on the 4th Amendment and those Officers should be fired. I want to be a Police Officer because I have spent time in jail, I know how inhumane the facilities and the mental torture of bordem that individuals who like in my case where in there for minor/misdemeanor crime such as underage drinking.

I believe that as a Police Officer I could help the youth and share my story of Beating Opiate dependency after several years on pain pills because of the major ear surgeries I decided one day that I was no longer using them for pain but for pleasure. I spent 6 Months going to a Methadone Clinic and it literally saved my life. I know there are those that believe that Methadone Clinics are nothing but trading one addiction for another, but I can tell you from experience, it is almost a miracle drug for me. I got my life back together and continued to live a normal life while only going to the Methadone Clinic once a day for my dose which took not even 3 minutes.

Also since my DUI I have not touched a sip of alcohol (no b.s) since my arrest in which my conviction was overturned. Yet what I took from the 3 days I spent in jail from that have taught me a life long lesson and that is to never drink, or never drink and drive again. I just turned 21 last month and I celebrated my birthday working as a Security Officer in a city that is number 3 or 4 in murder rates per capita. I have been sober completely for awhile now, like most I made mistakes in my teenage years like most have that didn't help my situation any but I would suggest to any one with a friend, family member, or even foe that is addicted to Vicodin, Percocet or OxyContin or Heroin or any type of Opiate to try a Methadone clinic depending on the size of their habit.

All people react differently to the medication, some people consider it the devil of addiction, but in my own personal experiences I truly believe it saved my life. After going to the Methadone Clinic, it made me feel as if I didn't have to go out and party every night or for that matter party any night!

I truly believe that my life of financial struggling, past addictions, past alcohol charges will truly make me a better Police Officer because I know where I am sending the person I am arresting, I have been 6 days in jail and everyone who gets caught with a roach or other small traffic of drug offense I will most definitely use my best judgement on a case by case basis but since I know the agony of jail unlike overzealous officers looking to throw the first person they see I will be a 'cool' Police Officer but I will still abide by the Laws and perform my job as expected but I guarantee you I will be one of the only police Officers who have spent time in jail and changed my life aand even make a difference in someones life!

I love Politics with all my heart and soul but I just don't have the money to go to a school that majors in Political Science because that is my actual lifelong dream. To one day become a Governor or a Senator is my ultimate dream in life but who know's maybe I can run for local office and work my way up from there. I think I might be fantasizing now LOL but I love and I am knowledgeable and passionate about Politics and I guess I just really need to see how things work out and hopefully one day I can get that big break and get my foot in the door and hopefully one day I will have the support of DU in a future campaign!!!

[mopinko]

74. jesus. hey sheriffs, do you think folks want to vote for a guy

who has as little knowledge of and respect for the constitution as the jugheads that think this is a good idea? sadly, this is amerikuh. they prolly do.

[Odin2005]

78. More Calvinist BS against pain sufferers.

It's disgusting that one is assumed to be a druggie if you are in pain.

[Clear Blue Sky]

79. So chronic pain patients are now criminals?

[Recursion]

158. No, but some criminals pretend to be chronic pain patients NT

[DeSwiss]

81. K&R

:mad: - Damn! Talk about a bunch doofus, fat-ass, lazy, flatfoots!

[Citizen Worker]

83. The next step into this descent into Fascism will be empolyers demanding access to this database so

that they may ensure the safety of their employees and the public.

[TwilightGardener]

85. They're going to do what...come into your house and count your pills

and compare it to your prescription? Insane. So many truly bad things happening, and this is their concern.

[krispos42]

86. I find the responses in the thread interesting.

If this was about a sheriff in NC wanting to register guns to help the police make "gun arrests and curb a growing problem of gun abuse", the replies in this thread would be about 60/40 for gun registration, and those that complained of privacy violations and jackbooted thuggism would be told something along the lines of "we're trying to save lives here!"

[TwilightGardener]

87. Guns...pain medicine... I don't see the comparison. Is someone going to give me a narcotic overdose

against my will in a bad neighborhood?

[krispos42]

93. Nope. But despite that fact, they want prescription narcotics users to register.

Yanno, to stop trafficing.

[Initech]

88. I was gonna say... doesnt this go agains the fourth amendment?

[Aristus]

89. I can't stand it when a patient of mine abuses narcotic prescription meds.

But I'm not giving them up to the cops. That would be a violation of medical ethics.

Any cops show up to challenge me on that, I'll just tell them to kiss my ass and get out of my clinic...

[Dappleganger]

109. Good for you!

[Zoeisright]

90. Hey, asshole Carter - ever hear of patient confidentiality?

This violates every principle of medical ethics. What a maroon.

[Iggo]

91. More people die from natural causes than from homicides, too...

...but I don't see the coppers bitching about that.

[MadMaddie]

92. Sheriff ought to be careful for what they wish for

The Sheriff most likely believes the people that are getting the prescriptions are poor, minority and or some other class of people he doesn't approve of. What he will find out is a lot of those meds are going to a lot of wealthy folks who very well may be addicted to the drugs.


Anyone want to wager that if they did an analysis of the Drs that prescribe the prescription drugs will fall into two catagories 1. average rate of prescriptions written or 2. prescription rate is quadruple what is considered normal.

There is no national database for bad doctors they can pretty much roam from one state to another.

When you hear about malpractice lawsuits from the right what they conveniently ignore is that the majority of lawsuits stem from something about 5% of all Doctors, in other words it's the same doctors making negligent wrecks of patients lives.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

94. This state can be so progressive in some ways...

and then, there's this asshole. And the asshole sheriff from Johnston County who is so "American" that he doesn't eat spaghetti. And to think we're home of the Greensboro lunch counter sit-ins -- battling the regressives is truly a constant in life.

[tourivers83]

95. Damn shitbirds.

I’ll put up with some crap things but screwing with my pain meds is not one of them. :mad:

[ProudDad]

97. K&R -- A stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid idea... (n/t)

[drm604]

101. Imagine being reluctant to fill a pain script from your dentist after dental work

because you fear a sheriff's deputy knocking on your door asking questions?

That said, I dont' think there's much chance of them getting what they want.

Sheriffs wanting it and the state legislature granting it are two different things. The state legislature granting it and the Federal courts then allowing it under HIPAA are also two different things. Granted, the Federal legislature could in theory modify HIPAA but I can't see that happening because of how unpopular it would be and how difficult it would be to get a veto proof majority in favor of it. I suppose Obama could decide not to veto it but then there would be a Fourth Amendment challenge. Admittedly that could go either way once it hits the Supremes (4 - 5, or 5 - 4), but it seems unlikely that it would get that far.

Sheriffs aren't legal scholars so I imagine there's often one somewhere asking for some unconstitutional thing or another, but I think it's unlikely they'll get this one.

Like the OP said, get a warrant.

[boppers]

106. My hillbilly heroin addiction should be protected!

How dare they claim otherwise!

[Romulox]

136. LOL. The Sheriff has at least ONE supporter!

:eyes:

[boppers]

200. There's always one. :)

Having dealt with MASSIVE amounts of pain in my life, and also having several friends addicted to prescription narcotics, definitely colors my perspective...

It's very, *very*, easy to "need" pain medications, to stave off withdrawal... and withdrawal is often *more* painful than the underlying condition that got somebody hooked on "medications" in the first place.

[Lasher]

107. I want access to all North Carolina Sheriff department records.

Including but not limited to personnel files, family and medical history, affiliations, income, criminal history, and disciplinary actions. That way when a policeman has pulled me over and is looking me up on his computer, I can be looking him up on my iPhone. This will help to curb a growing problem of police abuse by identifying the bad cops that are giving all the rest a bad name.

I guess the National Security Agency won't share this information with them.

[newfie11]

110. Yep all us dangerous little old ladies on arthritis pain meds

could turn on society at a moments notice. Rip off multiple drug stores, and sell drugs on the street corner.
We are a dangerous bunch!

What a turkey!
:sarcasm: as if needed

[madmom]

120. Isn't this exactly what they (meaning repugs) said was going to happen if we let

Obama have the electronic data base (for insurance, I believe it was). So they have to MAKE it happen.:banghead:

[Kelvin Mace]

125. Well, if spineless Democrats

ALLOW it to be passed and REFUSE to veto it, they would be right, sad to say.

Obama has continued to DEFEND torture and warrantless wiretaps, and has done nothing to repeal the "Patriot Act".

I remember getting into an argument with a local congressman (Miller D-NC) over "Patriot Act II" in 2004 and why he was supporting it. He prattled on about drug cartels and terrorists. I pointed out that for 40 years we faced the Soviet Union who had the ability to turn America into a lifeless, radioactive crater, and who killed tens of millions directly, or via proxy wars; and yet, we defeated them WITHOUT a "Patriot Act". But let a couple of crazies launch an attack that only succeeded because of criminally negligent airport security, and suddenly we have to go FULL POLICE STATE.

As I recall, he got angry, refused to answer the question and attacked me claiming I hadn't read the act (I had) and didn't know what I was talking about.

As long as our side won't fight, or worse, side with the enemy, we will continue to lose.

[reggie the dog]

124. i bet he wants a list of all of us who grow and sell schedule I cannabis

too......

[paparush]

126. As a North Carolinian (with a wife who suffers from intractable migraines) I'm appalled that this is

even being proposed.

Suprised? No. Not really. The bubba-sheriffs and private prison industry in NC are a truly symbiotic relationship.

[Vidar]

132. This is why Andy made Barney keep his only bullet in his pocket.

[Enthusiast]

133. "Doesn't anyone teach Civics anymore?"

Apparently Sheriff Carter has never heard of civics.

[Romulox]

135. "First, they came for the pot-heads, and I didn't speak up..."

:hi:

[Akoto]

137. I'm on indefinite pain management. This ticks me off.

I'm not on anything heavy, but just the same, my treatment is between myself and my physician. I speak little of it because it's something I'm not proud of at age twenty-five, yet it's a necessity in my life. It's none of the sheriff's business.

If a patient is abusing their medication, then it's the physician's responsibility to address it however they will. Only they can decide whether it's serious enough that confidentiality needs to be breached.

[mrmpa]

138. I choked on my legally prescribed vicodin as I read this

Prescribed 2 a day for pain attributed to a work related injury that was poorly repaired by workers comp doctor.

[Blue Owl]

139. Big Bro's wearing a gun

how nice!

[Time for change]

143. How in the hell are sheriffs going to determine which users are "abusing" the drugs

This sounds like nothing but a power play for the purpose of harassing people. How many people are going to have to sit around in jail and hire lawyers just to justify their use of pain medication. This is SICK!!!!!!!!!!

[ehrnst]

144. What would Rush say to all this? (nt)

[cognoscere]

146. So let's see...

they want to protect us from overdoses. They want to protect us from prostitutes. And yet, when someone is breaking into our house, they say they are not legally required to protect us. WTF?

[femrap]

148. I think Civics went the

way of Music and Art Classes. Didn't you get the memo: TPTB want obedient, uncreative, stupid folks in this country....and of course in debt as well. That's why there are no classes regarding Personal Finance either.

Doesn't anyone ever think that there is maybe a reason for all of these people taking PAIN KILLERS? We live in extremely painful times. People want to escape from it. They want to be numb to it.

Hell if you're not depressed or in pain, you're not paying attention.

That sheriff can eat shit.

[dogfacedboy]

152. Oh, what a surprise! It's in the SOUTH. Crazy shit NEVER happens in the South...

[DirkGently]

153. Yep. Try a warrant, Sheriff. nt

[get the red out]

160. So if you had surgery you are a suspected criminal?

I had surgery last spring and for a short period of time was on pain medication. Does someone having surgery run the risk of being on some suspect list for life? This "war on drugs" is idiotic.

[radhika]

161. Authorities ALWAYS want Names

Big long lists, addresses, phone numbers...they NEVER stop till they get it ALL.

[2critical]

162. Re: controlled substance diversion is a problem, but this is not the solution

I have a real problem with people coming in to the office, trying to scam drugs off me. The vast majority of people seeking pain/trank/stim meds are not legitimate. But this is not the solution. Neither is turning my office in to an arm of law enforcement.

[Drops_not_Dope]

165. This Is Insane

I hear there's plenty of stills in them thar hills though.

[The Flaming Red Head]

166. What happened to Privacy? Fuck Them!

Fuck The United Police States of America

[carlyhippy]

167. move on, nothing to see here, it will never happen

1. This is against HIPAA regulations. He can't pull up a list with confidential health records, otherwise, what good is HIPAA??

2. Is this really in their realm of expertise? I would think the DEA would be better able to tend to these types of matters.

3. Not everyone is "abusing" prescription painkillers. Many people, who have crippling pain, have to take these medications and do not abuse them. He is barking up the wrong tree, here. The people that he needs to go after, the people who are really taking these recreationally and without any medical reason, are buying the pills off the streets, their names will not appear on any "list" given by medical care facilities or pharmacies.

[WingDinger]

169. This is a driving while brown issue. You will have a BIG kickme sign on your bumper.

How likely are you, if in terrible pain, to drive while on med? The coming craze is busted for DWI for prescribed meds. MO money in fines. Glad med marijuana is off the books, SO FAR!

[KT2000]

175. Viagra! Viagra!

I want to know who is taking that stuff too - for sure this sheriff is.

[ooglymoogly]

178. When fascism comes (already here in the red states) it will

come carrying a cross wrapped in a sheet (er...flag) and come from the south and red states where elections are rigged and meaningless.

[AlbertCat]

181. Of course they really want to go after the doctors overprescribing.... right?

Not the addicted or those really in pain.















right?











RIGHT?



Is nothing ever learned in this country? Are they gonna sight the HUGE success this kind of approach has had in the so called War on Drugs?

[2critical]

189. Actually, they do, they have

As such, I have nearly got out of the narcotic/tranquilizer/stimulant prescribing business entirely. This would not normally be a problem, but I was the last of two docs in my entire county who would. Now there is only one left. Ppl with chronic pain needs now have at least an hour drive one way. The monitoring we are forced to do, the random pill counts, urinalysis, pharmacy checks, and drug contracts make it impossible to practice medicine. I'm a doctor, not a police officer. Now I'm forced to do their job for them. I just don't have the time or money; so I stopped doing it. When my former partner finally stops, that will be it for our county.

[Redstone]

185. Fuck him. And the horse he rode in on.

Redstone

[abelenkpe]

187. My cousin Shirley died last Christmas from overdose

on prescription drugs. My other cousin has spent over ten years in and out of jail and rehab, missing her husband slowly die of cancer and her daughter grow up due to addiction to prescription drugs. My brother is (so far) a functioning addict, but I worry about him as well. It is a serious problem. However, you're right there are better ways to combat this epidemic.

[m00nbeam]

191. That is frightening

And I daresay quite Orwellian.

I would imagine, as hard as it is for chronic pain patients to get properly medicated in the first place, this would be just another thing a patient would have to consider when deciding whether to seek treatment for his/her condition.

Yes, I agree, law enforcement needs to go through the already established (for our protection) proper channels to get a search warrant. Not be handed lists of patients by a health care professional.

Doesn't this sort of thing violate patient and doctor confidentiality?

[KakistocracyHater]

194. what happened to Clinton's HIPPA, healthcare privacy thing?

anyone?

[CountAllVotes]

202. frankly I have found HIPPA to be a POS

so many times my rights under this bogus POS have been violated. I'll spare you the details but yes, there is no confidentiality left in the United States of America re: this alleged "right". :(

:kick:

[2critical]

205. HIPAA is a joke

Every single secretary in the hospital billing and the insurance company billing read your notes in detail, all for the purposes of deciding on the appropriate level of charge. In total, only a minority of people who read your records are actual, trained medical ppl. The vast majority are billers and clerks. Money, money, money

[carlyhippy]

206. Hippa will be useless once the EHR's are implemented

electronic health records. Records will be available to doctors, hospitals, clinics.

[sarcasmo]

207. Police State upon us, prepare to collide.