Call Emerges for "Burn the Stars and Stripes Day"

[Bragi]

Source: CBS News

A radical Islamic activist and lawyer in the U.K. has called on Muslims worldwide to burn U.S. flags outside American embassies on Sept. 11, a "direct retaliation" against a Florida church's plan to burn Qurans on the same day.

Anjem Choudary, former leader of the banned hardline Islamic group Islam4UK, told CBS News in London he was calling for, "an international burn the Stars and Stripes day" on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Choudary, who regularly organizes small demonstrations in Britain calling for the implementation of Islamic law, was the first public figure -- and a likely one -- to call for retaliation against Gainesville, Fla. Reverend Terry Jones' plans to burn at least 100 Qurans.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20015919-503543.html

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I'm sure this guy won't be convinced that American free speech laws means any nutjob gets to insult any religion they choose to insult, but what about the rest of the Muslim world?

When do American leaders (like the President) start to explain and defend freedom of speech?

It's time stop trying to beg Jones to stop, and time to start explaining how freedom of speech means that no religion is protected from criticism and even insult.

[Trajan]

1. Wow .... So this is your fetish today ?

Excoriating everyone for not explaining how free speech works ?

Hell ... Your doorway leads to main street, where you can hop onto a conveyance of your choice and march around the world, illuminating one and all with your chosen profession ....

How many more of these threads are coming ? ...

[Bragi]

5. Nope

A search here will show that I've been arguing all this week about the overall reluctance of U.S leaders to explain how free speech works in America, which I think is the only way to counter the propaganda from radical Muslims who claim that the American government has a choice, and has decided not to stop this insult from happening.

[Binka]

28. Wow You Are All Over The RADICAL MUSLIMS

Axe to grind much? LOL you are a hoot. Obvious but a hoot.

[Ghost Dog]

41. Point taken. But where have you come accross such "propaganda

from radical Muslims"? It's not something I've noticed, in all the media I scan.

In general, my impression (from observations and travels) is that, thanks to your "Freedom of Speech", most of the world by now can see pretty clearly where you folks are coming from, where you find yourselves right now, and where you're heading.

[mbperrin]

2. Then there is no problem burning the flag. It's just freedom of speech.

No country is protected from criticism and even insult.

Right?

[Bragi]

3. I have no problem with flag burning

It's free speech for sure.

But experience shows that these things just start out this way.

[Xipe Totec]

6. Apparently you do - otherwise, what's the point of this OP? nt

[Bragi]

10. My point is: this thing is happening

The last few days we've had everyone trying to convince Jones the idiot to act responsibly.

This was stupid because this burning will happen, by him and by others, and radical Muslims are going to exploit it.

That's what's now happening. Time to shift gears.

[pipoman]

8. No problem with flag burning in front of mosques

by those who own the mosque...burning anything on someone else's property or even on public property may get one into trouble even in the US.

[Romulox]

9. Right. Burn away. nt

[Uncle Joe]

4. Why do you believe the President isn't defending free speech?

Begging, pleading or trying to reason with their "better angels" to stop a nonsensical, hate motivated, counter productive and provoactive act is using free speech as well.

Thanks for the thread, Bragi.

[Bragi]

7. I have no problem with the tolerance and better angels argument

The problem I see is that the Muslim world is being told that Obama could stop this Koran burning from happening, but he chooses not to, therefore the burning is a true reflection of American opinion.

They need to understand that free speech in American means any idiot can offend any religion, anytime they want. Jones' stunt therefore doesn't mean jack shit or represent America as a whole.

[Uncle Joe]

12. That's the whole point of Obama condeming this act, yet not stopping it.

With all the publicity this has taken on, via the corporate media and connectivity of the Internet, not to mention our own debates regarding non-related First Amendment issues, I find it hard to believe, the Muslim world doesn't understand this yet.

[Bragi]

15. What he needs to say is simply this:

And while I abhor what this Pastor plans to do, everyone needs to understand that in America, we have freedom of speech, and this means that as President, I cannot order Jones to halt his stupid plan, nor can we send police to arrest him. But please understand that in respecting his right to free speech, which I must do, this does not mean I agree with him, or am not offended by his actions.

Far as I can tell, no-one in the administration has spoken those words, or anything like them, when speaking this week about Jones' plan. I think that's a serious error.

[Ghost Dog]

40. You'd likely screw up your career prospects, in many fields,

if you offend the so-called Zionist lobby, though.

[pipoman]

11. Wouldn't the obvious response by this nutsack be to burn Bibles?

[tidy_bowl]

29. Actually....

.....the burning of bibles in the Muslim world already happens frequently. Saudi Arabia burns bibles they seize by the hundreds if not thousands every year and yet no one is a bit outraged by that fact. Clearly a double standard. We should stop all burnings of all religious artifacts everywhere. Or quit complaining if a bible, or the Qur'an is burned. For the record, I am agnostic and couldn't care less who burned what. It is just a stupid book to me.

[pipoman]

33. Great point...I wonder why MSM isn't screaming this at the

tops of theiur lungs...hmmmm, I wonder..MSM wouldn't actually be the ones trying to incite violence against US citizens abroad?

[cosmicone]

13. $20 says

Anjem Choudary is a Pakistani living in the UK.

[ixion]

14. I think we should burn the flag once a year, as a symbol of rebirth

and to remind ourselves of just what things like Freedom and Liberty really mean, because we don't have much of either, these days.

[apnu]

18. Actually that already happens

The U.S. Flag code stipulates proper disposal of the flag by burning. See section K here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html

[ixion]

37. that's just it. I'm talking about something far less formal -- less military -- and more spiritual

or celebratory.

[Ozymanithrax]

16. Warren is burning Korans for the same reason the KKK burns crosses in a black man's yard.

The latter isn't free speech. The former, as an act to intimidate Muslims, should not be.

The reason they haven't shut down his little burnfest is likely the political ramifications.

[Romulox]

17. The guy's church is not Muslims' yard. The analogy breaks down. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

21. It is widely reported in the media, putting it in everybody's front yard...

He has even said that intimidation are his intentions.

I still think the reason he has not been shut down is that nobody wants, "Obama shuts down Christian Church to Protect Muslims" to appear in every "Liberal Media Outlet."

The Klu Klux Klan burn crosses as part of their worship service. As long as they don't cause forrest fires, that is fine. It is the intent of intiimidation that makes it illegal when used against others.

[Bragi]

25. Your constitutional dog don't hunt /nt

[Bragi]

22. Combustion isn't the issue here

Other than involving combustion, the act of burning a holy text to insult a religion has nothing in common with burning a cross on someone's lawn to intimidate them.

The idea that burning a religious artifact isn't protected free speech makes no sense. It is exactly the kind of expression that is protected by the constitution.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Its not intimidation, its provocation and sacrilege, and it is Constitutionally protected

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. Again?

nt

[apnu]

20. This is the same stupidity as Terry Jones

So he's gonna hold a whole nation, who has clearly been repulsed and vocal about its opposition to the Quran burning, responsible for one group of idiots. Which is no different than Jones and his church holding all of Islam responsible for terrorist acts.

The stupid abounds here, we are surrounded by it.

[Hosnon]

35. +1.

I say the same thing downthread.

[valerief]

24. I thought every day was burn the US Flag Day around the world. nt

[rabs]

26. Worldwide travel alert issued for U.S. citizens

Just issued by the State Department as per Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC.

No link yet, caught it on MSNBC news few minutes ago.

[Bragi]

27. Makes sense to me /nt

[rabs]

32. Twitter people are over the alert

We have issued a worldwide #travel alert in response to stated plans by a church in Florida to burn Qur'ans on the anniversary of 9/11.

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http://www.google.com/search?q=worldwide+travel+alert&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&prmd=u&tbs=mbl:1&tbo=u&ei=FhmJTMbyHITK9gTd14jhDg&sa=X&oi=realtime_result_group_more_results_link&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ5QUwAA

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Boggling that all this is the result of a lone nut in Florida.

[Bragi]

36. And this is only the 9th anniversary

Imagine the festivities for the 10th.

[Ghost Dog]

39. You mean that wasn't the (perhaps unspoken) case already?

... As a Brit (albeit a self-exiled fairly-fluent Spanish-speaker), I am always on the alert wherever I travel. Always aware of and willing to learn more of everybody's history. And always sensitive to others' points of view.

And some of my most powerful, thought-provoking personal experioences lately have occurred while finding myself inside the Islamic world.

Go figure.

[Taverner]

30. My advice: Knock yourselves out

Just try not to set yourself on fire this time, OK?

[woo me with science]

31. "It's time stop trying to beg Jones to stop, and time to start explaining

how freedom of speech means that no religion is protected from criticism and even insult."



THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Sheesh, this should be an OP.

[Hosnon]

34. Good lord. This is equally as stupid.

Just as 9/11 terrorists =/= Islam, one crazy pastor =/= U.S.

[proteus_lives]

38. They can burn pictures of Bea Arthur for all I care.

Every American embassy should put a huge placard with the Constitution on it.

[Jennicut]

42. Maybe because people are not that stupid. Does one need to

be told that in America we have the freedom of speech? Most Muslims are not stupid and don't assume that America is just like their countries.