Qur'an burning would increase risk of terror attacks – Interpol

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Interpol, the international police agency, has warned of an increased risk of terror attacks if the planned burning of the Qur'an by extremist US pastor Terry Jones takes place on Saturday.

"If the burning goes ahead as planned there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow," Interpol, acting partly on a request from Pakistan, said in a statement.

=snip=

The foreign ministries of Pakistan and Bahrain issued some of the first official denunciations in the Muslim world, with the latter calling it a "shameful act which is incompatible with the principles of tolerance and co-existence".

The president of Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has written to Obama asking him to stop the bonfire. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono told Obama that images of the Qur'an in flames could "threaten world peace", according to his special adviser Heru Lelono.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-quran-burning-florida-interpol

[no_hypocrisy]

1. If Jones isn't another cheap con man, then he's trying to trigger Armageddon

by his actions.

[Brickbat]

2. Maybe they should lighten up, then

If seeing your religious book burn makes you not responsible for your actions, then maybe there's a problem.

[rollin74]

3. +1

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

8. What does that mean? You have been arguing in favor

of not trying to do anything to persuade this moron from going ahead with what has now been called 'dangerous' by three members of the U.S. Government not to mention every responsible group and/or individual on the face of the planet. You have claimed your reasons were concern for the 1st Amendment. But this comment makes me want to cringe and makes me view your support for this insane person's rights with no willingness to look at the possibility that his abuse of the right to free speech might be actionable, in a whole different light.

[Bragi]

12. Whatever I said was deleted

Remind me of the essence here. Maybe I mispoke.

[sabrina 1]

32. I don't think it was your post that was deleted. Airc, it was a comment

that basically made sexual references to Muslim men somehow involving Australian women. I believe it was something along those lines. Seemed very silly and completely off topic to me not to mention insulting to Muslim men. But I do not believe it was your comment as I do not remember being involved in a discussion with you on the book burning topic before.

[Bragi]

38. Fair enough /nt

[sabrina 1]

11. Maybe the problem is more than the religious book.

Maybe it has to do with the assault on Muslims by the U.S. and its allies. Maybe because we view Muslim lives as 'cheap' so cheap we don't even 'do body counts' we assume that this is how everyone views them.

And maybe the killing of more than a million of their fellow Muslims, torture, humiliation where their religion was USED to torture them, while Americans have 'moved forward' from that, is still very much in the hearts and minds of Muslims and gives them reason to see THIS act as yet another symbol of the U.S. war on Islam.

I wonder if the burning of the Bible let's say, would take on a different meaning if over one million of them had just been slaughtered by the country in which this even was about to take place.

And I wonder why people seem to be unable to place themselves in the position of others and view everything from the pov of the U.S. as if there was no other view possible.

[Bragi]

13. Maybe it's not that at all

Maybe the problem here is that there are people threatening to kill Americans because a dufus in Florida chose to stupidly exercise his right to free speech.

[Turborama]

19. Even simpler. It seems like the argument is religious dogma versus political dogma. n/t

[sabrina 1]

22. But it's okay that we, Americans are killing Muslims

on a daily basis without any provocation. They didn't even burn the Bible. Had you forgotten that we are still continuing the more than twenty year slaughter of Muslims and did you ever wonder if maybe, they notice, even if we have 'moved forward'?

[Bragi]

36. We should define where we disagree

I don't think we disagree on the war. We do disagree on whether Jones' action are constitutionally protected, but I think we've move on from that.

Where we seem to be disagreeing now is that I intend to hold anyone who kills Americans or anyone else because their holy book was burned responsible for their actions,and you ahve different view of that.

But I dunno. I don't know what your point is any more. I feel like this crisis is coming down like train wreck, and it's going to be really bad. I have zero sympathy or respect for anyone who engages in violence over a religious insult.

[Turborama]

20. Very well put.

Thank you.

[StarlightGold]

5. Well then,

by all means, let's look to terrorists for advice on how to act in our own country. And before anyone flames me, of course I think this a-hole pastor is not worth ANY attention whatsoever. But, if burning books is a horrible, emotionally threatening thing to do (and it IS), then so are people becoming wild-eyed and foaming at the mouth and calling "Death to America". They also need to change THEIR behavior, not be given an understanding pat on the back. If we should not judge other religions, countries, etc. based upon a few individuals, then neither can they and we need to state that to them just as forcefully as we do crazies in this country. It's not "different when they do it". Same standards apply.

[Bragi]

7. Well put

Everyone is focused on the idiot pastor, but everyone is afraid to say anything harsh to those who are contemplating riots, murder and mayhem.

[sabrina 1]

26. Afraid? I don't think so as that's all I see, ' those crazy

Muslims are going to kill people'. I did expect it on rightwing boards, there's not much hope for them. But to see it so prevalent here?

As I reminded people, and I wish there was no need for it on a democratic board, no matter how crazy they are talking right now, nothing they do can compare to the death toll we have racked up since the 'nineties in Iraq and ongoing.

I know you tend to dismiss this fact which is probably your views of the situation are so simplistic. But to the Muslim world, our Christain crusade into Iraq will probably not be forgotten for a long time and I hope it won't be forgotten here before someone is held accountable for it.

[Turborama]

6. Serious words

Need to be taken seriously.

[Bragi]

10. Hey Turborama

If I may be personal for a moment, this situation is clearly is a train wreck way out of control, and the situation is big-time dire. It is much worse than I imagined, and I'm pretty good at imagining bad things.

If you're able to get out in the next day or so, you should. I wish you the best.

[Turborama]

14. I'm getting cabin fever

I have just found out my (Indonesian) wife is pregnant and I can't leave as the visa thing would take too long.

Thanks for your best wishes. Hopefully where I live things will be ok.

[Bragi]

21. I truly hope so /nt

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

15. But we do know what those crazy Christians and Rednecks will do.

They will blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors. They will blow up Federal blgs and threaten to shoot liberals.

They will invade Muslim countries and drop bombs on their civilians and torture their citizens and they will steal their countries resources, after destroying their culture, their infrastructure and their environment for generations to come.

Should I continue? It's astounding how Christians are viewed as somehow sane, even after they launched two insane wars with a leader who viewed himself as being guided by God to go on a Crusade.

Any reaction from Muslims to this event would pale compared to the Christian reaction to 9/11. Let's keep things in perspective ....

Oh yes, they will bring THEIR holy book with them and try to convert those they have attacked. As that paragon of Christian virtue said 'invade their countries and either kill them or convert them'. Nothing crazy about the U.S. and its Christian population :eyes:

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

17. What was it in response to?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bighart]

18. So every member of congress that AUTHORIZED the wars had

"Christian Virtue" as their reasoning?

[sabrina 1]

23. You didn't answer my question. What was it in response to?

To kill over one million Muslims, there must be a good reason, no?

[bighart]

29. Well let's see.

First of all the federal building being blown up in OKC was in response to the US government killing innocent women and children Christians in Waco Texas so it had nothing to do with the burning of a bible.

As I recall we went to Afghanistan due to the fact that a mass murderer responsible for the death of several thousand people was being harbored by the government there.

As for the abortion clinic bombings and dr. killings I don't seem to remember one instance where bible burning was cited by the responsible party as being the reason for said crime.

Now as for Muslim's I do recall some folks in Europe being attacked because their prophet was made sport of.

[sabrina 1]

28. The 'leader' did and so does his party and many

on the Democratic side. Our current president is also a Christian. Did anyone who voted for this war in Congress object to Bush and the Republicans praying to their Christian god for protection for our troops? Or did they join them?

You know you can't have it both ways, You cannot point fingers elsewhere and then when someone reminds you have a few little problems in the same department yourself, and then try to make different standards for YOUR side. Well, you can, but it's pretty hypocritical.

[bighart]

33. You give me hard proof of the US government or ANY US basedChristian group

in the last 100 years engaging in intentional mass murder of innocent civilians in the name of their god or their holy book.

[Turborama]

37. Here you go

[bighart]

40. I do not see one thing on these that authorizes the intentional targeting

and killing of innocent civilians. I agree that these have no place being distributed by any government agency but I still do not see this as equivalent with religious leaders calling for the intentional targeting of civilians with the only stated purpose to kill as many of them as possible.

[Turborama]

42. And He Shall Be Judged

These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer's staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the fallout—as one Pentagon staffer would later say—"would be as bad as Abu Ghraib."

But the Pentagon's top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush's public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because "my seniors"—JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himself—appreciated the cover pages.



Read More http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200905/donald-rumsfeld-administration-peers-detractors#ixzz0z41CxWMm

[sabrina 1]

59. When you order the bombing of a major city, you know you

are ordering the killing of untold numbers of civilians. When this country bombed Baghdad, they did for no reason. Iraq never attacked this country, had nothing to do with 9/11 yet the Christian Crusaders seen above, who prayed to their God the night before, did order the deliberate killing of thousands of civilians. Who were they aiming at? Did you know that this is a strategy used by Western armies? To kill as many civilians as possible to force the population into compliance? We just do it by pretending we don't 'aim at civilians'. Well when you bomb a city WHO ARE YOU aiming at?

I remember very clearly the scenes from the hospitals which had also been damaged, the exhausted and shell-shocked doctors trying to save lives while also trying to ward off thieves who were taking supplies leaving them with no pain killers for those who needed amputations.

I will never forget one little boy, Ali, screaming in pain and calling for his mother, he had lost both arms, his stomach was ripped open, and they had no pain medication for him. His pregnant mother and his father and siblings were all killed that night, in their apartment. He was the only survivor. There was not a single soldier in sight in that hospital, they were all women and children and elderly people and fathers, brothers families. Civilians.

I cried in anger that we could do such a thing. And then we never saw any more footage of what was really going on. Clearly the media was forbidden from showing those images. But that one day in just one hospital will stay in MY mind forever and that screaming little boy. I hate what those war criminals did. And that scene has been repeated and repeated for eight years. And mostly civilians have died. So please, don't say 'we don't deliberately kill civilians'. We do. Unless you think we are so stupid as to think our bombs will magically only seek out military personel. Not to mention our very presence there was illegal. And we did for something of even less significance than a holy book which whether we believe in it or not, it means a lot to others. We did for profit, for OIL.

I don't know what happened to ALI. But that footage began to wake people up to the fact that war is cruel and brutal. Not so glorious as the propaganda footage makes it seem. So they stopped showing such images to us. Ali, because of being seen on TV, was rescued and taken out of the country to get treatment. I do not know where he is, or if he survived. But imagine the life he will have. And Dick Cheney, do you really think he cared how many Alis we killed? We DO deliberately kill civilians when we wage an illegal, aggressive war NOT in self defense but for greed. We are like home invaders who are after money not necessarily intending to kill, but if someone gets in the way, well too bad. What is the difference? We call it 'collateral damage' why can't they?

[sabrina 1]

44. You don't get to change the discussion. The discussion here

was what the U.S. has done to bring about the anger of Muslim extremists. George Bush announced a crusade into the ME and has told reporters that he received any advice he got about that decision NOT from his 'earthly father', but from his 'heavenly father'. Both Republicans and Democrats voted for the crusade and I remember them invoking their God's blessing on America and on the troops. I do NOT remember anyone refusing to vote for a war that was framed by the president as a crusade.

You appear to want to avoid talking about this, but the fact is that since the first Gulf War the U.S. and its allies have killed nearly two million Iraqis and the dying will continue because of what had been done to their environment.

You show me how there is anything comparable to that massacre on the part of any Muslim country in the same period of time ...

[saigon68]

60. LOL---Good post

[bighart]

24. My entire problem with the premise that it will cause unrest is this:

The radical Muslim's are basically holding a gun to our head saying do what we say or we will kill you. I say "F U" to them.
I will not cower in a corner because some idiot with a death wish is theartening me and I don't care what the religious persuasion of said idiot is.

[sabrina 1]

27. But that is what they say, and they can point to far more bodies

prove their point than we can. They did not come here and invade this country. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I don't feel threatened as you do, I do feel that when you invade a country and kill its citizens, there's no point in whining over the fall-out. You should expect it. We have been interfering in the ME for decades. If we had not, they wouldn't be bothering with us.

But the U.S. seems to think it can invade countries with impunity, and then whine like babies when the people get a bit upset when they see their cities and families bombed to pieices.

Who asked you to cower anywhere? I am not cowering, I expect consequences to wrongful acts so I'm not surprised. You seem surprised that human beings will retaliate when they are attacked. WE went after them and their resources when we installed leaders who brutalized them and continued to assault them for decades. Why are you angry at them? We created them.

[Bragi]

30. You confounding a war with burning a book

You wrote: "You seem surprised that human beings will retaliate when they are attacked."

Me, I'm surprised when people threaten to retaliate against an entire country because a book is burned by an idiot who lives there.

Which is what we have here.

[sabrina 1]

34. No it's not what we have here. You are viewing this with tunnel vision

Without the history I very, very briefly outlined, this moron could burn all the books he wanted to and no one would have heard of him. He would not be news. He is news because of that history and the current situation where the Muslim world and a good portion of the Western World believe the U.S. is at war with Islam. That is serious whether you realize it or not.

[Bragi]

43. Then I say you are viewing it with tunnel vision

You forgot 9/11 in your narrative, which is odd, since it is this very anniversary that has triggered this whole Koran-burning religiosity crisis.

[sabrina 1]

46. No, I did not forget 9/11. It is part of what I pointed out to you,

Blowback for actions taken against the Muslim world for decades before. When WE engage in acts of revenge of course, they are 'glorious crusades for justice'. This is the hypocrisy of this whole thing. We can slaughter their people and they are supposed to suck it up, but when they do the same, we are the innocent victims who can't figure out why they hate us. Maybe the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children or over 300,000 before that not to meniont the brutal dictators we forced on them like the Shah or Saddam Hussein or Karamov in Uzbekistan.

I am stunned to be having this conversation here. Sad really. Facts are facts and when a country decides it is an empire, there will be consequences, there always have been. Change our policies in the ME, and extremists will have no excuse for violence. As long as we keep killing them, they will seek retaliation. End the wars, and take care of our own country.

[Bragi]

48. Here's what surprises me about you

What we have here is a dimbulb pastor desecrating a religious text so as to express his contempt for that religion.

In retaliation for this, we are told, members of the offended faith are poised to kill people of the pastors faith because of the insult from this dimbulb pastor.

And you are arguing here for context, you claim, but the one bit of context you don't seem to want to address is the religious context.

Given that this immediate looming crisis is about a dimbulb pastor, a religion slighted, and reaction to that, I find your arguments baffling.

[sabrina 1]

49. Wrong,, I do want to discuss the religious context on both sides.

The Christian fundies in this country pushed for war in the ME. One of them was the president of this country. I am providing balance to the argument that only they make on issue out of religion.

We don't like their fundies, and they don't like ours. I don't like either and that is true of many Muslims also.

This lunatic who decided to make religion an issue, would never have been heard of WITHOUT the context.

Anyhow, we have trashed this topic long enough. My bet is that he will back down as he has accomplished his goal. He has incited extremists which is what he wanted to do.

[Bragi]

51. Jones isn't in charge of what happens now

He can back off, go away, whatever, and I can tell what will happen: Korans will be burned, if not this Saturday, then next Saturday, or the one after.

In a free society, it is simply impossible now to stop this happening. We are going to have to deal with this.

Best to you. I'm also just about argued out on this, but I've learned a lot doing so the last few days.

[sabrina 1]

54. Thank you for remaining civil. It is frustrating to say the least.

One man's right to express himself against many potential lives lost. You are right, this won't end it and it will have to be dealt with somehow.

Best to you also ...

[bighart]

31. I do not feel threatened

But that IS there intention, threats are designed to intimidate plan and simple. So if we give in to them do we start giving in to every group that makes a threat if we don't go along with them?

[Turborama]

35. It seems like your ignoring what Sabrina is writing and just trying to prove how "brave" you are.

Context is everything.

[bighart]

39. Bravery has nothing to do with it Refusing to cower to the will of

someone who makes a threat is the proper response. You do not make a bully your friend by being nice to them and giving them everything they demand, that only makes them more brazen. I am not saying you respond to the threat of violence with violence but
you sure do not respond to it by giving in either. If someone commits a violent act because they were offended they are 100% wrong every time.

[Turborama]

41. Thanks for proving my point. n/t

[bighart]

45. People killing other people because their favorite book is being burned

has nothing, NOTHING to do with them responding to an attack. Burning their book in no way harms them it just pisses them off. If I responded to being pissed off by the guy on the freeway that flipped me off and demanded that someone pay me or I would kill him should I be paid off so I don't do it?

[Turborama]

50. Shallow response

Really, is that the best analogy to what Sabrina said you can come up with?

[bighart]

52. What rational argument can you offer to justify the threat of killing innocent people

because someone burns a book. The idiots in Florida are responsible for their actions and so are the idiots that threaten to harm others if someone does something that they find offensive. I get that they have justifiable anger toward the west and the US because of some of the things that have been done. I stand by my statement that acting with violence because you are offended is wrong every single time it is done. I am sorry but anyone who says "if you burn that book I will kill some people" is wrong and trying to justify it by pointing to the past actions of someone else is just as wrong.

[sabrina 1]

53. What rational argument was offered to kill close to two

million Iraqis over the past two decades? What did all those people ever do to deserve being killed? Is 'if you don't give us your oil we're going kill a lot of people' a rational argument? Just how are we better? Oil or a book, should anyone be dying for either of those things?

As far as this idiot in Florida, if you know someone is holding a gun to someone's head, do you go ahead and tell them to 'bring it on'? That is what this fool is doing.

There is a lot of irrational thinking going on. So who backs down and starts to end the cycle of violence that led us to this point? Is there anyone rational either here or there who might be counted on to stop all of this?

[Nihil]

55. Just a quick "thank you" for your patience ...

... in continuing to present the "other side" to those with tunnel-vision
and also for managing to do so politely.

(+ Thanks to Turborama for the same)

[sabrina 1]

57. That's very nice of you to say.

Thank you :-)

[bighart]

56. I may not agree with your view of the issue but I certainly repect

the level of your convictions. To me this entire episode is a clear cut case of right and wrong and neither side is right. It is wrong, but completely legal, for the idiots in Fl to burn books and it is wrong, and completely illegal for killings or attacks of any kind to take place if they do.

[sabrina 1]

58. Thank you.

But it was also illegal for this country to kill over two million Iraqis and thousands of others in Afganistan and Pakistan. I think people should keep that in mind rather than wonder why there are extremists in the first place. What would any of us do if we saw our children torn apart by bombs or our fellow Americans tortured and humiliated by invading armies? And then learned that our religion was about to be publicly mocked in the homeland of those invaders?

I know what we did after 9/11. We started two wars supported by a majority of American people to get revenge for that tragedy. So all I am saying is that we do not have much moral authority to be the judges of others who resort to violence, especially when we are responsible for their having a reason to do so. No one attacked us until we started meddling in the ME. They aren't attacking people in Guatamala eg.

I agree with you. It IS all wrong, but the one-sided judgementalism by the West as if we were completely innocent, incapable of such violence ourselves, so civilized compared to those 'ragheads', is also wrong and hypocritical and even if we here do not remember our own brutality, the rest of the world does. And they notice that for all our claims of respecting laws, not one of the war criminals here has been held accountable. On the contrary, they are praised and respected and have been rewarded and will live their miserable lives in luxury. There will be no justice for those they so brutally killed.

[disidoro01]

47. A Book

Shall we create a list of books that must not be desecrated? How do we do that? Who selects them?
Yes this douche bag is an idiot and no I don't agree with him. It is a constitutional right however. Now if we want to suspend that right, were do we stop?
I can burn my flag if I want, I can burn a bible if I want. I chose to do neither. Can I not burn a Qur'an in the United States? It may not be smart but it is a right. There is a difference there.