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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:11 AM
Original message
In Virginia, a Woman on the Verge of Execution
Source: Time magazine

In Virginia, a Woman on the Verge of Execution
By Katy Steinmetz and Alex Altman Friday, Sep. 10, 2010

http://img.timeinc.net.nyud.net:8090/time/daily/2010/1009/virginia_deathsentence_0909.jpg

Teresa Lewis was sentenced to death for
plotting to have her husband and
stepson killed in 2002. Lewis could
become the first woman executed in
Virginia in nearly 100 years

After midnight on Oct. 30, 2002, two men crept into an unlocked trailer in Pittsylvania County, Virginia. A family of three was sleeping. Toting shotguns, the intruders roused Teresa Lewis, now 40, and told her to leave the bedroom she shared with her husband Julian. One of the men shot Julian several times. The other intruder stalked down the hall and put five bullets into Julian's son, C.J., a U.S. Army reservist. The intruders divvied up the cash in Julian's wallet and fled the trailer. About 45 minutes later, Teresa Lewis called the police to report that her husband and stepson had been killed. But when the police arrived, Julian Lewis was still alive. Among his last words was an ominous accusation: "My wife knows who done this to me."

She did. As detailed in court documents, Teresa Lewis had paid the shooters — Matthew Shallenberger, 22, and Rodney Fuller, 19 — to kill her husband and stepson. Some murders are spurred by sex and others by money; in this one it was both. After meeting the pair at a local Walmart, Lewis started an affair with Shallenberger. In return for killing Julian and C.J. Lewis, Teresa promised to split her stepson's $250,000 life-insurance policy with the two men, and she fronted $1,200 in cash to buy the guns and ammunition with which her family would be executed. In May 2003, after waiving her right to a trial, Lewis pleaded guilty to seven offenses, including two counts of murder for hire. A judge, deeming Lewis the crime's mastermind — "the head of this serpent," as he put it — sentenced her to death by lethal injection. The triggermen, who also pleaded guilty, were given life sentences.

Barring the U.S. Supreme Court's intervention or a decision by Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell to grant clemency, on Sept. 23 Lewis will become the first woman executed by the commonwealth in 98 years, and just the 12th overall since the U.S. reinstated the death penalty in 1976. No one disputes her guilt, or the heinousness of her crime. Whether she should be put to death for it is a murkier matter.

Lewis' lawyers have offered several reasons for why her sentence should be lightened, including tests that show Lewis is on the cusp of mental retardation. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that executing mentally retarded prisoners violates the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. But Virginia does not consider prisoners mentally handicapped unless they score significantly below the mean on an IQ test and struggle to function in society. Lewis — who scored as low as 70 — hasn't qualified in the eyes of appeals courts. In addition to her poor cognitive abilities, says Lewis' current lawyer Jim Rocap, she was addled by an addiction to prescription painkillers at the time of the killings, a condition that Rocap says contributed to her apparent lack of remorse. (According to the court documents, she began inquiring about redeeming her husband's paycheck and stepson's life-insurance policy, for example, just hours after the murders.)




Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2017362,00.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Fnation+%28TIME%3A+Top+Nation+Stories%29
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Smart enough to plan a murder for hire.
Smart enough to go along with it.

"She thinks she has a lot to offer and she wants to do anything she can to make people realize she's much more than the person that was depicted on the worst day of her life."

Her husband and step-son probably had a lot to offer too.

Execute her.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. By the way, planning a murder doesn't reflect intelligence, after all. n/t
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. Intelligence Comes in Many Forms
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. After only 8 years
She still has about 22 years of appeals left.

Although I think that 8 years should be the maximum time to carry out any sentence on any clear cut case.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
84. ......
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Mahatma Gandhi
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. We are a civilized country, we won't stone her to death.
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 03:35 AM by Downwinder
We will give her a lethal injection, with the same result.

If it were a husband plotting to kill his wife, would the punishment be the same?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Shows how evolved some really are in this 1st world country, doesn't it?
To show how much more civilized they are they demand someone just go kill this woman. Apparently they get a rush from being able to wish her dead, like little gods, or Romans at the Coliseum.

"Whatdya think? Shall I let her live? :thumbsdown:

Kiss your ass g'bye, sister."

Horrifying.

And to think these legalized murders looked like they were finally behind us, several decades ago. It looked as if we were finally going sane.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Like the rush she got from having her family killed?
Sorry, I don't have much sympathy for people who kill their families and then claim they "have more to give the world." :eyes:
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I am just reminded of the fellow who killed his wife,
and got off because she was a "Jewish American Princess" who nagged him.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why?
Could you link to the case because I seriously doubt someone walked out of a court room with a "nagging" defense.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Only took a split second to find it after seeing your demand for proof:
CRIME/MYSTERY; THE DEFENSE PLEADED NAGGING
By TONY HILLERMAN; Tony Hillerman is a former police reporter.
His most recent mystery is ''A Thief of Time.''
Published: October 9, 1988

DEATH OF A ''JEWISH AMERICAN PRINCESS'' The True Story of a
Victim on Trial. By Shirley Frondorf. Illustrated. 281 pp. New
York: Villard Books. $18.95. 

The case that attracted Shirley Frondorf, and whose verdict
deeply outraged her, was the slaying of Elana Steinberg, a
so-called Jewish American Princess, by her husband. It
happened in 1981 in Scottsdale, a flossy, yuppie-filled suburb
of Phoenix, and, once the husband dropped his initial tale of
burglars, the facts were not disputed. The husband had taken a
kitchen knife and stabbed his wife 26 times while she cried
out to their children for help. 

Steven Steinberg claimed he had done this while sleep-walking
- driven temporarily insane by his wife's endless nagging for
more money. Nothing unusual, to a crime buff, in any of this -
or in what followed. The husband hired a lawyer who
specialized in the insanity defense. Inexperienced Scottsdale
police did a sloppy job. The prosecuting attorney made a case
only for premeditated murder. With just that choice, the jury
returned a verdict of not guilty. 

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/09/books/crime-mystery-the-defense-pleaded-nagging.html
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Huh, sounds like a TV movie.
Police and local law fucked that up big-time.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. More on this murderer's punishment-free murder of his wife:
~snip~
If we can believe the parade of well coached defense witnesses, Elana shopped incessantly, she nagged (with a shrill voice), she withheld sex. She dominated and badgered the personable and docile Steve until he "snapped" in a fit of "temporary insanity". Steve argued that his wife was a "Jewish American Princess (JAP)" whose shopping habits drove him (temporarily) insane.

In the alternative, the defense argued that because Steve was sleepwalking, he wasn't responsible for what he did--also temporary insanity. While he was allegedly sleepwalking, he managed to walk to the other end of the house, take a carving knife from the kitchen, walk back and viciously attack his wife who was screaming and fighting for her life. The attack was so severe the knife blade was bent at the tip and blood was splattered on the walls and even the ceiling.

In testimony, Steinberg's 12 year old daughter, Traci (described by her father as a "Princess in Training") stated that she was sleeping in the next room, woke up from the commotion and opened her bedroom door prompting her father to scream (while sleepwalking, of course) "shut the f-----g door." Then he laid out 3 pairs of Elana's panties on the floor to make it look like a robbery. It amazing what a person can do while unconscious.

Steve's original alibi was that 2 bushy haired strangers held him down while they murdered Elana, and they ran out the back door and jumped over the fence. Police found no footprints in the damp grass behind the house. The murder weapon was found under the mattress with Steve's fingerprints on the blade.

More:
http://kennethsuskin.blogspot.com/2008/04/murderer-walks-and-its-not-oj-steinberg.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Deleted message
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. He had the "Dream Team," after all. Not everyone has the luxury of hiring
6 or 7 or more individually wildly successful defense attorneys to represent him/her.

There'd be far fewer people going to jail with that many famous people defending them, regardless of their actual innocence or guilt.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I can link to the book on Amazon.
Death of a Jewish American Princess
by Shirley Frondorf

http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-American-Princess-Shirley-Frondorf/dp/0425121240

It is an interesting read.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That strange hatred of women is really hard for some of the stalwarts to keep down
when a woman gets out of line and raises her hand against the master.

You have most clearly hit a deep vein most people never recognize consciously. It's as deep as hell in a certain segment of the population.

Far, FAR more fury rises in their throats when they imagine someone got out of line and didn't keep her place.

You have brought to the surface something which is usually only unconscious. Now it can be studied consciously by those who dare. Observations gathered over a lifetime would bear that point out. Completely.

The fact she IS very slow, and was heavily sedated, (all you need to know is the look in her eyes to recognize that) doesn't "excuse" her from being smashed like an empty egg shell if some reactionary WANTS it that way.

They always conveniently forget EVERYTHING their own New Testament has taught them if it doesn't support their wish to see possible enemies destroyed at all costs.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. "raises her hand against the master"
:rofl:

Talk about back-flips to defend a cold-blooded murderer.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Defend a cold-blooded murderer? Really?
I don't think so.

What I do defend is the obligation to put the death penalty away. It doesn't serve any purpose but to coarsen and degrade the human race. Take a look around at the kind of people who foam at the mouth with their unquenchable need to see someone killed as soon as possible when it's determined they have murdered someone themselves.

How do you overcome the double standard? Do you just dismiss it?
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't see anyone foaming at the mouth.
"It doesn't serve any purpose but to coarsen and degrade the human race."

Says you, that's an opinion not a fact. Others have the opinion that it's degrading to feed and cloth a murderer for the next 60 years.

"How do you overcome the double standard? Do you just dismiss it?"

What double standard? Or is this another case of ignoring the difference between murder and execution?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. You will never shake someone's eternal belief that murder is MURDER,
and there is never any justification for it. Calling it "execution" and "doing the world a favor" and whatever euthemism you can concoct will never take away the absolute evil of it in the eyes of some of us.

There's simply nothing which will ever shake me on it. NOTHING.

"Defending." That's really a hot one. You turn to devaluate someone who hates institutionalized murder. Smooth move.

In the end, the need for revenge is going to be swept away by awakened people with a social conscience. It takes longer to build a world than to destroy it. That's why the world people have needed so long is taking so long in getting here.

Capital punishment IS going to be a dim memory in this world one day.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Once again, I'm not the one foaming at the mouth.
Still all opinion.

"Capital punishment IS going to be a dim memory in this world one day."

I'll take that bet.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Deleted message
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
51. The cold-blooded murderer in the OP has it coming
Time to fire up Ol' Sparky!

:nopity: :party: :bounce:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz z .............. . . . . .
:boring:
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
67. Indefensible to you, maybe.
Like I said to the other poster, you're trading in opinion, not fact.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #67
86. Well, now,
the facts are as follows:

--the United States leads all other nations with regards to the percentage of citizens incarcerated.

--the US doesn't have significantly higher rates of crime or victimization than other industrialized nations (higher rates certainly would be handy, in order to 'justify' incarcerating so many 'criminals').

--encouraging social development of children and families decreases crime and yields returns of about $7 for every $1 spent (thus, providing appropriate care for our youth and citizenry in general is far more cost productive than sticking people in prison).

--states with the death penalty have higher rates of homicides than states that do not impose the death penalty.

--it costs far more to impose the death penalty than to incarcerate a violent offender for life.

I could go on, but I recognize that you're among the unfortunates who somehow cannot grasp that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, all the while expecting different results.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. "Human sacrifice" would be a better description.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Perfect. That hits the target directly. Couldn't be clearer, & I never saw it before now.
Ritualized, anticipated, and relished. Jesus.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. And only applies to the weak and underprivileged. n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Wealthy murderers have never been murdered by the government, as far as I know.
Some don't even get life sentences, by any means.

Shocking double standard, there, too.

What a delight to capital punishment supporters it must have been when Scalia shared his views concerning executing innocent people:
Scalia says there’s nothing unconstitutional about executing the innocent.

Almost two decades ago, Troy Anthony Davis was convicted of murder and sentenced to die. Since then, seven of the witnesses against him have recanted their testimony, and some have even implicated Sylvester “Redd” Coles, a witness who testified that Davis was the shooter. In light of the very real evidence that Davis could be innocent of the crime that placed him on death row, the Supreme Court today invoked a rarely used procedure giving Davis an opportunity to challenge his conviction. Joined by Justice Clarence Thomas in dissent, however, Justice Antonin Scalia criticized his colleagues for thinking that mere innocence is grounds to overturn a conviction:
This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.
So in Justice Scalia’s world, the law has no problem with sending an innocent man to die. One wonders why we even bother to have a Constitution.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/17/scalia-actual-innocence/
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Wow. When some aren't out for blood, they surely crave their torture
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 09:05 AM by depakid
What a sad, frightened and vindictive people that so many have become.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Like the majority of people in most civilized nations, I'm not obsessed with "punishment"
and Old Testament vengeance or retribution- but more concerned with risks of harm to society and deterrence of crime.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #38
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. What sentence would meet the twin goals I set out
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 09:46 AM by depakid
while providing some degree of retribution "demanded" by the victim's survivors (and society in general)?

Whilst America imprisons people (even juveniles) for life without parole for a wide range of offenses, that's comparatively rare in other western nations and reserved only for the very worst offenders.

Applying the sort of sentencing one sees in more sensible nations- that don't incarcerate so many more of their citizens than every other country in the world, 20 years with some minimum served before parole on good behavior would fit a conviction under the circumstances of this case.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #43
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. I guess life is cheap to the torturing types
For some reason, Americans don't seem to grasp that 20 years of a person's life is a very long time- and plenty adequate for deterrence. It's viewed more like a sports score.

There's not really an argument here in terms of risk to society from this woman, so torture (or Old Testament vengeance or execution) really are the considerations you offer. No two ways about it.

Gotta have that pound of flesh, eh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:06 AM
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Punishment obsession already noted
and deemed pathological.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:10 AM
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. I would also note that the pathology is helping to bankrupt many states
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 10:18 AM by depakid
-not to mention sapping resources from other more useful and economically productive activities like education, public health and infrastructure.

Harsh and retributive sentencing is expensive- and I suppose in that sense, states that engage in it do in fact "get what they deserve" out of their revenues and expenditures.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Think about where you were 20 years ago. Then think about having spent
every minute since that time behind bars and walls, unable to go anywhere, do anything without the OK of a keeper, having NO privacy, always under the threat of violence from other prisoners (and sadistic guards), having to be grateful for a half hour of TV, for 15 minutes of solitude in the sun in the prison courtyard - for every day, from that day to this. Think about everything that has happened with you, and to you, over the past twenty years. Relationships, work, family, sex, food, movies, theater, books read, vacations taken, and think of NONE of that happening.

That is just a part of a twenty year sentence. It doesn't even come close to the reality of it.

You really think that is NOT punishment enough?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #58
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. So I am to surrender my humanity in equal measure?
How does that make me any better a person than the killer?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #60
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. So those are your options? 5 years or death?
You aren't even trying to be serious.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:17 PM
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. hmm...
"Proper punishment"? Is that a euphemism for 'make criminals suffer in kind'? What a sad, sad attitude.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:22 PM
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. No.
Because then they leave prison and the person/people they killed are still dead.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. So you prefer Sharia law, then - eye for an eye and all that medieval crap.
Well, maybe in your next incarnation you'll evolve.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Maybe in your next life you'll feel for the victims.
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 02:16 PM by proteus_lives
Rather then just the urge to hug and coddle murderers and rapists.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. LOL.
Twenty years in prison is 'coddling'.

it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. What's pathetic, is that you think a human life is only worth 20 years.
And you think that's being "liberal" :eyes:.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. As i pointed out above, if it was YOUR twenty years you might
change you song and dance.

But then, conservatives have never been very good at wearing other peoples' shoes.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. So now I'm a conservative.
:eyes:

Accusing me of something doesn't change the face that a human life is worth more then 20 years.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Mine is only worth 20
I couldn't ask for anymore if someone decided to kill me. I can't even imagine spending 1 year in prison, I'd probably ask for the death penalty to avoid serving time. I'm very claustrophobic and love being able to go freely where I want. I'd go insane after a few days. Anyways and I would also hope some research could be done because there is evidence that a brain of a murderer differs from one with a normal brain. I would be scared to have a brain like that. One neurologist who can pick the murderer's brain from a photo lineup very accurately. His family suggested he check he has a line of killers in his family tree. Then he discovered that he has a brain of a killer. He tried to figure out why he never committed any murder and he came up with the conclusion that he had a very good support system growing up. Plenty of people that are in prison didn't have one at all.

You may think I'm coddling whatever but I find these kind of findings interesting. What I'm talking about in those cases in the frontal lobe is damaged. (People who have TBI and repeated concussions have this type of thing and behavior problems occur afterwords) The frontal lobe is where you conscious is. It affects judgment, self-control, etc. Imagine what your life would be like without a conscious? I'm not saying don't punish them, I'm saying don't put them to death and try to research more about the minds and provide them the counseling and support they were probably lacking growing up. Also hopefully they can find a way to use this useful information to prevent future ones.
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pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #58
83. Judging by the description you just listed
I would pick a needle all day everyday!

I'm sorry, but I cannot and never will figure out people's "soft on crime" opinions.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. Being kept in a cage for the rest of her natural life is insufficient? nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Truly. Revenge and violence are never the real solution to anything.
Those forces destroy the one who seeks to use them. No future there.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Prison. What else? That's what happens in most of the rest of the world, countries with LOWER
crime rates, and prison populations.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. You're just here to kill time? What kind of prison? Peruvian prison?
No, not Peruvian prison for a person in the States. That one doesn't compute.

What activities? Please!

How about the same activities they allow to all condemned murderers?

That's all I can manage, sorry.

You'd probably better move on to your next victim. Thanks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
62. Seriously? I think most people are better informed than that.
Most people actually think prison is too soft - though they themselves have no experience of it other than Hollywood glimpses. They have no idea of the depth of dehumanization of the prison system - particularly the privatized system of the past 30 years.

Clearly, you are one of those.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
87. Actually,
Countries that use different strategies, such as "Project Turnaround" in New Zealand, have better results (including lower recidivism) than the US. Those countries with approaches to criminal justice similar to the US have comparable rates of crime and recidivism.
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
57. raises her hand against her master?
she had her husband and son in law murdered for insurance money.That is raising her hand against her master?
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Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. Yes. NT
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Loudmxr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. I m just sick of Bill Donohue of The Catholic League everywhere protesting this.
What??? He's not? Not threatening to withhold communion on death penalty issues?

Oh right! Wrong issue. The death penalty doesn't make money for the Catholic hierarchy.


The death penalty does not belong in our justice system because

1 unfair- only the poor and the poorly defended get it.

2. unjust- its more likely a person of color gets it.

3. It takes away (although not in this case) valuable informational resources from law enforcement forever. I would like to ask Tim McVeigh if the third man was Al Qaida. But he's very very dead.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. They were in a wild rush to shut him up, weren't they?
We're also starting to learn some innocent people who had NOTHING to do with murders have been murdered themselves by the state.

That's only the few whose cases have been pursued more fully of all the ones who've been murdered by the government.

Thank you for listing some elemental facts which should have gotten a response a long time ago, and would have if it hadn't been for the emotional need to seek the ultimate revenge because someone has suffered a loss.

Some people just don't learn it's necessary to absorb, deal with and transcend loss, that it can't be reversed, wished away, handed off to someone else. That's what character is. Revenge is weakness.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
27. kill it before it kills again....
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 08:00 AM by veganlush
too often these murderers get out some way or another and kill again. Some kill again while in prison. Once they kill her, that will no longer be an option for her. If killing her is taking something away from her that she wants, then so be it. If killing her is simply revenge, then cutting out a cancerous tumor is simply revenge. Kill it.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. You run the risk
of executing someone who is innocent. Plus you have situations where "tough on crime" assholes like Andrew Thomas can ask for the death penalty which he has done. If you're unfamiliar with him, he was an Arpaio lapdog who likes to file charges on people such as judges that get in his way. Of course the charges were dismissed as well as the ones he filed against the County Board of Supervisors. My point with that is I don't trust him or people like him seeking a death penalty against anyone.

Not to mention there are racial disparities when it comes to how these sentences are handed out.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. As long as we are working on Phoenix.
Winnie Ruth Judd never killed again though she had ample opportunity and it is debatable whether she ever killed at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_Ruth_Judd
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. That is interesting
While we're on Phoenix. :)

They almost got the "snaggletooth killer".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Krone

That is very limited. Kind of funny (not ha ha but strange) that prosecutors used (false) expert testimony that said the bite marks matched his by pointing towards a "snaggletooth" hence the name. Anyways DNA pointed to another guy. Though he was on death row for a crime he didn't commit and that is scary. Why I'm against it.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
89. but if you let them live, sooner or later
..someone's gonna let them go, and then you run the risk, and I would say a higher risk then the risk of an innocent conviction, you run the risk of more innocent people being killed by the known killer.

odds wise, it's way more likely that a killer will be freed to do it again, than for an innocent person to be executed.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. and anyone who believes that the death penalty is not..
..a deterrent need only look at the number of murders committed by killers AFTER their executions...
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
91. but if you let them live..
Edited on Sat Sep-11-10 05:08 PM by veganlush
but if you let them live, sooner or later

..someone's gonna let them go, and then you run the risk, and I would say a higher risk then the risk of an innocent conviction, you run the risk of more innocent people being killed by the known killer.

odds wise, it's way more likely that a killer will be freed to do it again, than for an innocent person to be executed.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
92. and
and anyone who believes that the death penalty is not..

..a deterrent need only look at the number of murders committed by killers AFTER their executions...
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. Why do you hate Massachusetts so much?
And Maine? And Wisconsin? And...
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
52. Once again, the state teaches by example that we can solve our problems by killing folk
I wonder if that's how Teresa Louis learned that stupid lesson?

In the period before Teresa's crime, Virginia sure hadn't been shy about publicizing murder-by-the-state as a solution:

Jan 2000: Douglas C. Thomas and Steve Edward Roach
Mar 2000: Lonnie Weeks Jr
Jul 2000: Michael D. Clagett
Aug 2000: Russel Burket
Sep 2000: Derek Barnabei
Oct 2000: Bobby Lee Ramdass
Dec 2000: Christopher Goins
Mar 2001: Thomas Akers
Oct 2001: Christopher Beck
Mar 2002: James Patterson
Apr 2002: Daniel Zirkle
Jun 2002: Walter Mickens

See:
http://people.smu.edu/rhalperi/exec00.html
http://people.smu.edu/rhalperi/exec01.html
http://people.smu.edu/rhalperi/exec02.html


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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
54. She fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down
Senseless waste of life all around.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #54
88. hmm...
sounds like you've got ugly all the way to the bone.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
70. Maybe she can buy herself a ticket for the ressurection.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
76. Sounds like she deserves it...
the world will be better of without her here.
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laureloak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
77. I have no pity for murderers but all should be treated the same.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
78. But she seems to qualify under "too stupid to live"
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
81. "After meeting the pair at a local Walmart"

Well, she probably got the lowest price, anyway.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Cheap hit-men made in China.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
85. Just because she's stupid doesn't mean she shouldn't have to pay for her crimes.
Normally, I'm strongly against the death penalty, but in this case, the individual is clearly guilty. Likewise, she should be held accountable to the highest extent of the law. That being said, this is the kind of case that actually makes the death penalty seem to hold some form of justice.
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