Jubilant Iraqis Drag Burned Body Through Streets

[Flagg]

Jubilant Iraqis Drag Burned Body Through Streets

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Jubilant Iraqis dragged the burned body of what appeared to be a foreigner through the streets of the volatile town of Falluja on Wednesday and threw stones at a corpse still inside a car engulfed with flames.



In what appeared to be a separate incident, the U.S. military said five of its coalition soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb west of Baghdad on Wednesday morning.


Reuters Television footage from Falluja showed two civilian cars ablaze. Residents shouted "Long Live Falluja" and "Allahu Akbar" ("God is Greatest") as they danced around the vehicles waving their arms in the air and making the victory sign.


Pictures showed at least one person kicking a burned corpse as it lay on the ground and stamping on its head.


A dead man, who appeared to be a foreigner with fair hair and in civilian clothes, lay in the road beside one of the cars, his feet on fire and blood stains on his white shirt.


Other pictures showed chanting

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040331/ts_nm/iraq_attack_dc&cid=564&ncid=2100

[jsw_81]

1. Absolutely disgusting

Damn the Iraqis and damn Bush for getting us into this mess.

[xchrom]

3. damn the iraqis?

they didn't create this anymore than we did.
anyway the whole thing is sad.
this isn't how people should live and to think it never occurs to the chimpster -- something is wrong with this picture.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressivebydesign]

84. Ummm are you talking about Afghanistan?

Sorry to rain on your rant.. but Iraq, before it was bombed into the stone age, was actually filled with many middle class families. They had symphonies, universities, tea rooms, it was a thriving country. There were pockets of religious zealots (gosh, much like here!), but it was NOT the stone age.. AND there were NO suicide bombers. UNTIL we destroyed their lives and their infrastructure. You appear to be describing Afghanistan perhaps... a country that is now the model of what happens when greedy, arrogant people like us use their country for decades of self-serving battles.

Having said that, I think what they did was disgusting and inhuman. Much like much of what is done under the guise of Christianity and a host of other relgions. Shooting abortion doctors comes to mind, as does blowing up family planning clinics. I pity the victims of all wars, and all religious zealots.

[Frances]

86. Our Christian Bible

is pretty bloody too. Remember how God killed the first born sons of the Egyptians when Egypt would not allow Moses and his people to leave Egypt?

I remember how scared I was when my mother read this story to me as a young child. I was a girl, but I didn't want God to kill my baby brother for something the head of our country did.

[frankly_fedup2]

92. Yes that is true; however . . .

that is the old testament and we are to live by the new testament. They are still living by the laws of 600 A.D. We don't and are told not to.

[progressivebydesign]

117. But.. But.. why is the "old" word of God not to be followed?

I'm sorry.. I didn't get that memo. At what point did God let us know that the old stuff was all fiction, because it didn't play into the hip new Christian thing? I mean.. it was the word of God, wasn't it? Now it's not? Convenient, very convenient.

[frankly_fedup2]

123. Ummm, I believe it was something to do with . . .

Jesus. Heard of him? You don't have to believe in him, but surely you have heard of him. Well, maybe not. Have you heard of his movie, "The Passion Of The Christ?" You know, this is what "christians" supposedly believe. See we can put down and talk about christians on this board but not muslims. You get censored for that.

[homelandpunk]

228. oh, screw the Passion shit, already!!

fer Christ's sake!!

[Roaming]

185. The book of Hebrews can shed light on your questions about that.

Christians live under the New Covenant of Jesus. By His own words, he fulfilled the purpose of the law. That doesn't mean, however, that a Christian disregards the Old Testament--anything but. It shows the history of God's plan of salvation; it brings everything together.

[The Stranger]

206. The Book of Joshua is about the ethnic cleansing of Canaan.

But Christians indeed do a good job of upholding that example, even though it is in the Old Testament.

[tedzbear]

121. The Catholic Church used the new testament to murder millions...

Does the Spanish Inquisition ring a bell? Over a million women were murdered by the Christian church in this era because they were "heathens" who worshiped a pagan goddess instead of the new testament's god.

:kick:

[frankly_fedup2]

124. I never said

that christians were not just as evil. I believe every war in Mankinds' history was invoked by the word of someone's God. Religion has killed more people through war. ALL religions.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

217. Damn those warmongering Buddhists!...

Oh yeah... They don't believe in a "creator" god. No wonder they have started so many wars.

And humility is a big thing with them as well...

But, 10,000,000 angry monks with begging bowls can be a viable force. Those things hurt when they hit you over the head with them.

Fucking heathens.

[homelandpunk]

229. so you admit it includes yours. Yet you "forgive" your brand of religion

for mass murder. If belief in YOUR religion caused mass murder, why is your belief in your religion sacrosanct and off limits from mockery. I MOCK your belief, and your admission that belief causes mass murders.

[PassingFair]

131. Really!

Does the new testament approve of actions dubbed "Shock and Awe", or are our leaders practicing "old" testament behavior?

[saskatoon]

202. Talking about Shock and Awe

http://www.shianews.com/hi/middle_east/news_id/0000758.php

[magnolia]

219. Fer God sakes....

...the bible is written as symbolism, not literally! The stories in the old testament were similar to the parables that were told by Jesus. When Jesus talked about the man sowing seeds...he wasn't giving gardening tips he was explaining a spiritual principle. In the same way, the war stories in the old testament are about principles. Our ememies are our own negative thoughts...and that is all God ever instructed us to destroy. God never killed anyone...only man does that.

[zonmoy]

194. making it even worse

is the fact that god himself made the pharaoh refuse by hardening his heart. Doesnt that make god the actual cause of the alleged crime of the pharaoh that caused him to send the plagues. what sort of being makes a person do something and then punishes his entire country for that act.

[Crunchy Frog]

89. Congratulations,

you've managed to describe the Bush administration and American Christian fundamentalism almost to a T. By the way, have you ever read the Old Testament? The violence in there makes the Koran look almost tame by comparison.

Oh, and what do you want to be done with coalition soldiers that are caught committing atrocities of the sort that are often associated with warfare? Should they all be lined up and shot as well, or is that penalty only reserved for Iraqis?

Thank you for your thoughtful and interesting post.

[frankly_fedup2]

101. You are very welcome!

But Christians are to live by the new Testament . . . not the old Testament. As a matter of fact, the Quaran, Torah, and our Bible (as far as the history of civilization) are very similar. They believe Jesus Christ was a great prophet, but not the son of God just like the Jews; however, Muhammad was the last profit, and to them, was the only prophet that was right.

Now you justify this any way you want to. Whether it be so-called Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc., this is a sickening display of humanity. These people did not bomb them. These people were just trying to do their job, you know, like the ones that went to work on 9/11. Was that justified because of our governments' policies, and how unfair "our government" have treated them?

I take one day at a time. I hated it when we went in and bombed innocent people. I had a tirade that day too. I hated the shock and awe (which was a joke). I despise Bush. But I also cannot understand human beings doing this. Kinda like dragging our soldiers bodies in Moga(whatever) sp).

Now you can set there and be self righteous all you want. All of it is wrong. So you are saying what is done in the past always justifies what goes on in the future? Could you do this?

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[homelandpunk]

230. I don't believe you despise Bush

I don't believe you. I don't.
Prove it.

[saigon68]

161. adios

[Devils Advocate NZ]

5. No, damn the corporate whores...

who are in Iraq to rape the corpse of Iraqi sovereignty.

The Iraqis had NO CHOICE but to be on the business end of "Shock and Awe" - These foreigners had EVERY choice not to participate in the pillaging of Iraq's wealth.

[jsw_81]

10. So the Iraqis are justified when they murder and mutilate Americans?

[saigon68]

15. The poster never said that

A more appropriate comment would have been

When you Fuck with the Bull, sometimes you get the HORNS.

[Crunchy Frog]

93. How about, when you jump into a snake pit

you should expect to be bitten.

This kind of scenario is well known, and should have been anticipated. Any westerner who travels voluntarily to Iraq should realize that they are taking their lives into their own hands. It's not a question of what's right and wrong, it's just what is.

That's just my opinion, you can flame me for it if you want.

[frankly_fedup2]

103. Like you say . . .

It is just your opinion. Just like my remarks are mine. We can agree to disagree is, basically, the only thing we can do.

We cannot change the world . . .so why do we give a damn, right?

[Crunchy Frog]

146. Yup, both of us are free to discuss

our opinions here, at least until the moderators decide otherwise. I don't see what problem you would have with my opinion though.

Would you not expect to get bitten if you jumped into a snake pit? I certainly would, and I wouldn't blame the snakes either, I would blame my own stupidity and recklessness.

[pinniped]

203. Local news channel said the dragging was too gruesome to air...

but they had no problems showing shot-up dead Hussein brothers.

This pic is from yahoo! right?

I'm sure the stupid POS AWOL lovers are again calling for nuclear annihilation of the entire region.

[NNN0LHI]

26. Poster never said that. But if someone were to invade America...

...and began stealing our natural recourses I know many Americans who would murder and mutilate them. Would they be justified in doing so? Would you do the same or would you just sit back as our country was being plundered and occupied by troops from an invading force? Just curious.

Don

[Barkley]

81. Excellent point! -n/t

[progressivebydesign]

88. Hell.. how many people of middle eastern descent were killed here?

Remember when the 9/11 aftermath began? Remember how the good, kind Americans treated people of Middle Eastern descent? It wasn't pretty... and if the same thing happened here, that happened to Iraq, no one can tell me that there are not people here that would do the very same, disgusting things to the occupiers. I don't condone it, I don't excuse it, it's barbaric. But.. blowing their citizens to bits with our "shock and awe" was somehow less barbaric because it was a distant kill?

[KC]

You're right

and I've thought that all along.
How would WE respond if this were all being done to our country.

KC

[Dover]

168. Agreed. Hey wait.....isn't that exactly what Bushco and their corporate

sponsors have done to America?

[maxrandb]

227. Kind of like what happened to blacks in the old south.

Of course, I'm sure "that" was in the name of Jesus too.

"religion is what keeps the poor from killing the rich" - Napoleon

[Devils Advocate NZ]

28. Who said they were Americans?

Or does it only matter to you when they are Americans?

Tell me, was the US justified in killing tens of thousands of Iraqis? As I said, these foreigners CHOSE to enter Iraq, WITHOUT IRAQI PERMISSION, and are determined to rape the wealth out of the country. If that means MORE Iraqis have to die, THEY DON"T CARE.

So why should I care when a few of them meet the same fate? After all, war is hell...

On edit: Just a little clarification here - I am NOT talking about US troops who have no choice but to got to Iraq or go to prison, I am talking about the "civillian" employees of corporations such as Halliburton who are getting paid good money to VOLUNTARILY steal Iraq's wealth. They DO NOT have to be there, but money talks, to these thugs.

These people were NOT soldiers "defending" their country, they were CORPORATE thugs RAPING someone else's... They get NO SYMPATHY from me.

[keithyboy]

31. If we are in their country doing what we are doing, yes! Period!

You had better not enter my house to kill my children and take our food. See what happens.

[Posinegativeman]

39. Is that what those civilians were doing?

Maybe they were aid workers?

[NNN0LHI]

44. You are right

Might have been some more Southern Baptist missionaries (who were all for attacking Iraq by the way) spreading the word of the Lord at the end of a gun barrel. Never know?

Don

[Crunchy Frog]

99. Whatever they were, they were people

who voluntarily chose to place themselves in the middle of a war zone, in an area renouned for it's hostility towards westerners, in a situation in which there are not sufficient troops to provide protection for civilians.

Their motives may have been completely pure, but they were the ones who chose to place themselves in that situation, knowing the risks.

This is just one of those things that happens during a hostile military occupation.

[frankly_fedup2]

113. I agree . . .

It was their greed. Yeah, they deserved it because they were greedy. OOPS. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Christians are evil too (can talk about christians but not muslims . . . might offend).

[keithyboy]

34. Was it wrong for Afghanis to do this to Russian who had invded their land?

Let's get real about this, war is ugly. An unjustified war is even uglier!

[radwriter0555]

41. The iraqis ARE ALLOWED TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY FROM FOREIGN INVADERS.

Why shouldn't they?

Those people did NOTHING to justify this unlawful and unwarranted invasion.

I do indeed pity the poor soul who was murdered and abused, BUT, had the bush regime not sought to enact its hitler-esque WWIII PNAC scheme that man would NOT have died, niether would have the thousands of US and coalition soldiers.

the PNAC SUCKS. Bush sucks. Don't like it? GET THE FUKC OUT OF IRAQ.

http://www.newamericancentury.org

[KittyWampus]

48. Mutilating Corpses Is NOT "Defending Their Country"

That is ALL I'm going to say here.

We shouldn't be there in the first place.

But since we are, it's good to point out that Bush made a horrible mistakes in the way he went about the invasion.

[The Stranger]

49. Bush made it a point to parade the corpses of Saddam's sons

on television for all of the world to see -- one of the most disgustingly illegal, macabre and subhuman things I can think of any American President ever allowing. Even the fucking Nazi leaders were given trials after World War II -- we did not throw our own humanity, laws and civilization away -- even notwithstanding the crimes that the Nazis committed.

[Jacobin]

55. Yeah. That too

Maybe they are emulating our lust for carnage, but on a much much smaller scale.

[progressivebydesign]

90. Oh.. I forgot about that... That was really sick. And the same thing. N/T

[Cocoa]

102. that was necessary

they needed to do that to stop all the violence. See how well it worked?

[frankly_fedup2]

110. I agree . . .

GOD BLESS AMERICA. (that must be required here or they delete your posts). :)

[Flagg]

144. try this link dude

http://www.freerepublic.com

[minkyboodle]

179. this poor poor censored me

thing of yours is getting old quick. The mods were right to delete your post, get over it and stop filling this thread with whining.
Scott

[DoNotRefill]

157. Ummm....

When did US troops "parade the corpses of Saddam's sons"?

We showed pictures of them after they had been killed, to verify that we had in fact killed them. I don't recall seeing pictures of Saddam's sons hanging from a bridge...or being hit with shovels... or being dragged through the streets.

BTW, we killed a shitload of Nazi leaders without trial during WWII. Reinhard Heydrich is an excellent example, assassinated by Czech partisans, trained and equipped and infiltrated by SOE for the sole purpose of killing Heydrich.

If Saddam's sons had chosen to surrender, I'm sure we'd have given them a trial. They didn't, and were killed.

[The Stranger]

163. Ummm...

Try a google search for the images of Saddam's dead sons. They were left rotting in some tents near the airport and broadcast all over the world. How did you miss this?

As far as hanging from a bridge or being hit with a shovel, this really wouldn't lessen or increase the horror of what happened any worse. But, then again, there probably were some who took the opportunity to do some horrible things to those corpses because they had been mutilated and then re-made with make up.

If you think that if they had surrendered, they would have received a fair trial, you haven't been keeping up with current events lately. Do you remember that little military base the U.S. has in Cuba? Well you'll be amazed at what it has been used for recently.

[DoNotRefill]

169. Are you saying Saddam's in Gitmo?

And here I thought he had a lawyer already, and was going to be tried in Iraq....

As for Saddam's sons being "left rotting in some tents near the airport", I hope you have something to back that up with. As I recall, their bodies were held by US Mortuary personnel pending DNA analysis, and then turned over to the Iraqis for burial. I saw NO pictures of their bodies being desecrated, and no evidence that they were mutilated after their deaths. Were pictures of their bodies shown to show that they were actually dead? Yes. Were pictures of their bodies being desecrated shown? No.

[The Stranger]

178. His lawyer is in France, and has never seen him. Wake up.

As for Saddam's sons being "left rotting in some tents near the airport", I hope you have something to back that up with. As I recall, their bodies were held by US Mortuary personnel pending DNA analysis, and then turned over to the Iraqis for burial.

You recall wrong:

At the airport:

The US-led coalition has said the two corpses were being stored in a US base set up in the grounds of Baghdad International Airport.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/24/1058853205155.html

In a tent:

While the graphic photographs released Thursday showed bruised and bloodied faces, the bodies that lay on gurneys in a tent at Baghdad International Airport resembled more closely the way Uday and Qusay looked in life.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-07-25-convince_x.htm

And, as far as the condition of the bodies, one can only imagine:

Morticians had touched up the bodies' faces . . . Officials said the post-mortem "facial reconstruction" was standard practice and not an attempt to deceive the Iraqi people. The faces had a waxy, made-up appearance.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/25/sprj.irq.sons.intl/

Here's one more, for good measure (if you'll pardon the source):

The said "Friday" that they put the images out was thus 3½-days after their deaths, which was on or about about noon, Tuesday, July 22, 2003. Hence, the world gazed at their bodies for the same length of time that the world will gaze at the bodies of the (righteous) two witnesses of the book of Revelation.

http://www.bible-codes.org/Saddam-qusay-uday-two-witnesses.htm

Now were you saying something?

[DoNotRefill]

192. The link you gave....

says that they were embalmed. Being embalmed generally precludes "rotting"...That's the purpose of the embalming process, to stop decay.

The bodies were turned over to tribal leaders for burial. See http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/02/cst.10.html

This link also says their bodies were refrigerated to prevent decay.

You've offered nothing to demonstrate that their bodies were mutilated, unless you consider an autopsy and reconstruction to be "mutilation".

[mhr]

186. Seems The Christian Fundies Always Forget Eye for an Eye

when they don't like the results.

You live by the bible, you die by the bible.

You can't have it both ways by criticizing the Iraqis when the tables turn.

[yardwork]

234. That is a very valid point.

It's not at all clear what really happened to Saddam's sons. I'm not defending them. They were both sadistic monsters. However, from what little we know (despite embedded journalists, we seem to know so little about what is happening in Iraq, gee why is that?) it doesn't appear that American forces gave them an option to surrender.

Maybe we did, but I don't think that came across well when our president and his staff were jumping for joy while they displayed the photos of their bloody faces to the world.

[Jacobin]

54. Why is it ok to mutilate corpses using missiles and bombs?

But its not ok to do it with hidden bombs along the roads?

Their reaction to killing Americans might be more understandable to us, if we had had our homes invaded in the middle of the night, had our wives and daughters felt up by the invading soldiers, had our sons dragged off to prison for no reason other than "suspicions", had a 70% unemployment rate, were promised the invaders would "leave" after Saddam was captured and then had the occupiers appoint puppets to run the government to the satisfaction of the invaders.

I'd be beyond pissed. I would be savagely hateful.

Frankly, I'm surprised at the restraint they are showing.

[Demonaut]

138. That's your mistake, assuming the Iraqi's are human too

the bush administration did not make that assumption, if they aint christian they aint human. Who counts the dead livestock in a war?

[not systems]

71. So true.

In the book Jarhead the author describes the extended
mutilation of the body of an Iraqi by a US marine in
first gulf war.

Mutilating Corpses Is NOT "Defending our Country

[Oilwellian]

76. The fact that they are mutilating corpses

should be a clue of just how intense their anger and hatred is towards us. We've killed many of their loved ones; arrested and carted off thousands more; and built barbed-wire fences around their communities. I know if I lost my grandaughter to a bombing, saw my sons arrested and taken away by foreign troops, and a foreign tank was parked at the end of my street, I'm not sure how I'd react if I saw dead bodies of the enemy before me. I do know this, I wouldn't be laying flowers at their dead feet.

[northernsoul]

133. agreed, this whole thing is a profound tragedy

from the formulation of an evil plan
to the lies that were told to promulgate it
to the illegal, unjustified invasion
to "shock and awe"
to the deaths of Iraqi civilians
to the deaths of American soldiers
to the horrors that have warped humans minds
to the savagery that has mutilated human bodies

[ElementaryPenguin]

215. Well...as disgusting as it is - it DOES make a strong point to the occupie

rs - GET THE FUCK OUT, AMERICA - WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE - THIS IS OUR LAND AND WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT YOUR FORCED PRESENCE HERE! YOU ARE CRIMINAL CONQUERORS - IMPERIALIST OCCUPIERS - NOT LIBERATORS, AND MANY WOULD RATHER BLOW THEMSELVES UP RATHER THAN LIVE UNDER YOUR OPPRESSIVE FOREIGN RULE!!

Bush is personally responsible for ALL of this horror!

:mad:
:argh:
:puke:

[radwriter0555]

184. Gee should they ACT CIVILIZED when the barbarian hordes have taken over

THEIR country, destroyed THEIR homes and raped THEIR women and killed THEIR children, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters? You want them to be NICE about it?

No fukcing way. They are ENTITLED to behave in any manner they so choose. WE need to get OUT of there.

[The Stranger]

46. Attacking their country unprovoked, "shocking and aweing", and

"eliminating" uncounted fucking thousands with overwhelming military might and superiority, the latest in aircraft (manned and unmanned) technology, unprecedented and disproportionate munitions, missles, tanks, aircraft, helicopters, ships, satellites, bombs, explosives, technology and other arts of killing -- backed by the most powerful nation in the history of the world -- are okay, but when one of the vanquished strikes back it is suddenly "murder?"

You can't be serious.

[Chicago Democrat]

224. That is a loaded question.

All killing is tragic, but those Iraqis that did this are heroes in their town Falluja. Just like those Americans who died are heroes to us. War divides nations and peoples and forces them to kill one and other.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that we went into Iraq because of lies and manipulations of the Bush administration.

I think its time to give peace a chance.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

108. Well then, maybe the best option

is just to bite the bullet and implement a "final solution" against these inhuman brutes. That should settle the problem once and for all, shouldn't it?

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

148. That's funny, I've never said it

a single time, and have never had a post deleted because of it. Maybe they have a special set of rules just for you.:)

Or maybe it just confirms what godless, unpatriotic scum we are here, as you've probably already guessed.:)

[Crunchy Frog]

241. Oops! You said it and

your post still got deleted.:)

[havocmom]

50. This is gonna heat up the wingers here in the US big time

and they will start getting down and dirty about attacking anti war
sentiment and people who demonstrate it. So many operate from a knee jerk mentality and this is gonna jerk them bad. Worries me that the neocons depend on hate so much as their motivation to do anything. Makes their puppet masters too willing to inflame that tendency for their own purposes.

Heads up, everyone. There will be loonies out there who will be a bit too inspired by this.

[The Stranger]

59. Attack them right back, tell them the truth even if in their denial they

cannot grasp truth, never back down. We will not retreat an inch.

[havocmom]

129. agreed, just know they are gonna be active

and delusional people having their delusions challanged can be unpleasant company.

[dArKeR]

233. Link with the most terrible pic. We can't run from this. Look at the Bush

lies! The War pResident.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/photo/2004/04/01/2003117893

[KG]

2. if you're a foriegner in iraq, and don't want to become a target,

you need to get the fuck out of their country.

[Posinegativeman]

25. How sweet

Why not apply that sentiment to America too?

[rooboy]

32. When you look at what has happened to muslims since 9/11...

you would see that it already applies in America.

[Posinegativeman]

38. Muslims are being dragged through the streets of America?

Which streets?

[The Stranger]

53. Yes, it does appear to happen even in America.

http://shock-awe.info/archive/000263.php

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today called on federal authorities to aid the investigation of an incident in Indiana that left a Muslim businessman with burns over 60 percent of his body.

The Washington-based Islamic civil rights and advocacy group says the 37-year-old Afghanistan native was injured Monday night at his restaurant in Indianapolis, Indiana. According to media reports, the man told officials he was cleaning up in the kitchen when two people burst in and set him on fire. Fire and police investigators tell CAIR that there is an ongoing investigation and that no possible motive is being ruled out.

[Aidoneus]

35. Who invaded and holds us under military occupation?

:shrug:

(Besides the European invaders & the natives, of course, but that's not quite what I'm referring to..)

Why not apply that sentiment to America too?

For the reason that they're incomperable situations?

[KG]

42. it applies to countries illegally & immorally invaded & occupied.

get it?

[frankly_fedup2]

79. Oh that has already been done thousands of

times . . . especially to minorities.

[Crunchy Frog]

112. Yes, I probably will if another country

ever invades and occupies us in order to steal our resources and impose their idea of a proper society on us.

If that ever happens here can we expect you to be as cooperative with our occupiers as you want the Iraqis to be with theirs?

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

152. Well I appreciate the acknowledgement.

I'm glad that my arguments have proven so persuasive to you. I think you have some real potential in the openness to logical thought department.

Stick around here, you might really learn some things of value. At any rate, I am very pleased to see your openmindedness. :)

[zonmoy]

196. If that ever happens

it will be because we will be getting what we deserve. As you do unto others so should it be done unto you.

[Demonaut]

141. Agree totally, go in harms way expect harm,

I feel horribly for those killed and their families but they volunteered for this assignment.

[ima_sinnic]

4. still waiting for those flowers they 're going to throw the "liberators"

[JaySherman]

47. If there is a Hell...

The entire *Bush Administration and the Iraqis who participated in this heinous act should be forced to spend eternity together in a 10 square' cell.

[zonmoy]

197. No way to easy a fate

how about being eternally burned while being knawed on by a cerebus and being told how evil you are for eternity.

[leftchick]

6. Photo from Al-Jazeera....

:(

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

7. Is there a message embedded in this carnage?

"Yankee go home," perhaps?

[saigon68]

13. Full Article

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/854E5652-C575-4409-B627-DE92D9E540E5.htm

No flowers yet.
But a lot of bullets and RPG's flying from all directions though.

Who wants to bet these people were contact killers of one sort or another.

[frankly_fedup2]

91. What kind of person can stand and watch

the carnage and then watch the body burn and then help drag it to a bridge. Yeah, that is a person of God alright.

[leftchick]

116. perhaps the sort of person who lost loved ones in "shock n awe"

... just a thought.

[Sandpiper]

140. I'll tell you what kind of person

"What kind of person can stand and watch" the carnage and then watch the body burn and then help drag it to a bridge.

The kind of person who saw their children incinerated by a big fluffy love bomb of democracy.

[mmm]

143. The answer is: almost everyone

you can only push a man so far before the thin veil of
civility disappears. I would expect much more of this in the
future. Do you really expect any people to be continually
pressed upon without eventually fighting back? THAT would be crazy.

[tedzbear]

The same kind of person who watches Faux News...

...and claps and cheers when our missiles and bombs fall on innocent Iraqi children in an illegal and unprovoked attack.

:kick:

[yardwork]

237. What is your point?

You seem to be far more outraged by the actions of a mob than you are by the calculated actions of an immoral administration - one that represents our country - that has resulted in thousands of casualties.

Of course mobs do dreadful and horrific things! Duh! What did we expect would happen when this invasion was planned and carried out? Are you surprised by this? I am not.

[Snivi Yllom]

142. that's pretty awful.

[drhilarius]

8. If reported on network and cable...

...will this have the "Somalia (or "Black Hawk Down")effect?

[Crunchy Frog]

115. It didn't seem to have much effect

the last time it happened, which was a few months ago. I don't know why things should be any different this time.

[saigon68]

9. Going getting tough on "Civilians" in IRAQ

You got to hand it to the "Civilians" in Iraq. Those mercenaries, CIA, Halliburton contractors, bodyguards,and other assorted servants of the corporations, although filling their pockets with loot, seem to be getting their asses kicked more often.

[leftchick]

14. morning saigon...question again for you!

Do you suppose this is a CIA business going on?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FBE0836E-F273-4A36-8347-66BE05F39475.htm

Iraqi intellectuals flee 'death squads'

<snip>

Occupied Iraq is suffering a new brain drain as intellectuals flood out of the country to avoid unemployment and an organised killing campaign.

In recent months assassinations have targeted engineers, pharmacologists, officers, and lawyers.

More than 1000 leading Iraqi professionals and intellectuals have been assassinated since last April, among them such prominent figures as Dr Muhammad al-Rawi, the president of Baghdad University.

The identity of the assailants remains a mystery and none have been caught.

[0007]

29. It appears the spooks are being kept busy these days creating

the brain drain.

[NNN0LHI]

36. Sounds like Operation Phoenix during Vietnam. Actually its identical n/t

[saigon68]

82. Good Morning LC

It certainly appears to be ominous. The civilians in brand new SUV's first shot then stoned and then burned alive by a mob. One of the links indicates they were wearing "flak-jackets".

I knew a lot of "civilians" in the Nam. A lot of them were armed to the teeth with colt 45- auto pistols and Swedish "K"s. They also had a very thuggish attitude about life and death. Some of these contract "civilians" were making beaucoup dollars, and appeared to be European.

My take to answer your question------There is a whole lot going on over there-- And no one appears to be accountable for anything. I think there are thousands of agents of one sort or another---- each pursuing their own agenda

[m-jean03]

139. Some civilians are only linguists, actually

Like my friend S., who took a job w/good pay after 9/11. Thought he might do some good in the world. Naive, didn't know he'd end up in hell.

Edit: Not the case with the deceased today, however. All four were from a private security company.

[DoNotRefill]

174. Ummm...I know a guy in Iraq....

He's a civilian, and a "peacenik". He's there working for a foreign company doing construction work. He's not there for the money (which isn't great, he'd do much better financially if he stayed here), he's there to help rebuild the country and make things better for the people of Iraq because he feels badly about what they've been through and wants to do what he can to make up for it. He knows it's dangerous, but is trying to make things better. He's also a lifelong leftist who was involved very early in the Greenpeace movement.

Every foreign national in Iraq isn't the spawn of Satan...

[SoCalDem]

11. Can you say......Mogadishu???

This just really sucks.. There is no reason for any westerners to even be there.. They want their own rule.. Let them...

[Barkley]

94. Exactly! 'They want their own rule' and we want their oil

That's the main difference between Somalia and Iraq --Oil.

So we're willing to have 585+ GIs die in Iraq because at the end of the day we're getting control of a very valuable resource.

If 585+ GIs died in Haiti, I guarantee you the outrage could not be contained; we would be leaving 'Haiti to the Haitians'.

[mmonk]

12. What's wrong with our subjects?

[skooooo]

16. Guess they're having a hissy fit.

Go figure.

[lebkuchen]

17. Indeed.

Iraqis mutilate a burnt body of a dead man believed to be a US citizen who was inside a car attacked in the flashpoint town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad. At least two people believed to be Americans were killed when gunmen opened fire on two four-wheel-drive vehicles in Fallujah, police said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/photos_wl_afp/040331105422_2cfveizs_photo0

[saigon68]

18. Flack Jackets for certain "agents"

A vehicle burns in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, Wednesday March 31, 2004. Gunmen in Fallujah attacked two civilian cars that residents said were carrying up to eight foreign nationals. The occupants of the cars were killed and their vehicles were set on fire. Some of the slain men were wearing flak jackets, said Safa Mohammedi, a resident. (AP Photo/Abdel Kader Saadi

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. They're failing to recognize the opportunity as a...

...conquered people.

[drhilarius]

19. Will Bush get the idea

that not only a significant portion of the population is against him, but that God may be against him as well. Seriously, First Clark, then Condi is forced to testify, and now he has his own Mogadishu (if the networks have the balls to show the footage). Imagine it: Split screen with condi prevaricating and spinning next to bodies being dragged through the streets. Can the people stay asleep?

[Disturbed]

20. War weary

It is gruesome that people would do this. It shows that these
people have become callous to human life. With all the Iraqis
have been through it seems that they have become hardened. I am not condeming them but feel that they have been through a shit storm.
The Occupation has to end. The US Buscho news keeps allowing the spokespeople of Bushco to spuout insurgents &/or foreign terrorists. It is more and more Iraqis who are expressing rage at being colonized!

[Karenina]

211. "...these people have become callous to human life?

Surely you jest. "These people" are reacting to 100% AMERICAN MADE "shock and awe." It is the AMERICANS who are callous. AMERICAN CIIZENS bought popcorn and beer to cheer on their government attacking a puny nation 50% of whose population was under 16 years old.

[saigon68]

21. THE COST

Melody Roop, center, the mother of U.S. Marine Cpl. Andrew D. Brownfield, embraces the U.S. flag that draped her son's coffin Monday, March 29, 2004, at Holy Cross Cemetery in Akron, Ohio. Brownfield died March 18 in a mortar attack at an air base northwest of Baghdad. (AP Photo/ Haraz Ghanbari

[DubyaSux]

43. Rummy was right...

Well, I guess Rumsfield was correct.

Iraq does have better targets in Iraq than Afghanistan.

Too bad our soldiers are the targets.

[ze_dscherman]

22. Better get used to it

The Iraqis have seen the blown up, charred and bullet torn bodies of their own children, parents and friends. Not all, but many will take any chance on revenge. The more the occupation troops fight them, the more embittered they'll become.

This won't be the last picture of cruel violence we'll see, I'm afraid.

[NNN0LHI]

23. Shock And Awe can do that to people I think? Any people n/t

[ze_dscherman]

24. You name it

Shock and awe - the terrorist approach.

[patricia92243]

27. Are we still going to turn it over to them in June?

[keithyboy]

30. The blood is on Bush admin. hand and those who support it.

Sorry, folks, but that is just the plain and simple facts. This blood-guilt should follow them for generations to come. We need to get the hell out of other people's countries!

[rfkrocks]

37. Sad-Sad

Good idea occupying an islamic nation-this attack makes us look so weak in the world not strong-Iraq was not worth one US death but will anyone remember the corpses dragged thru the street who are in the Bush colored states? This Iraw policy is a gigantic foreign policy blunder- but the news will be about Doctor Rice today and not the dead-Bring the troops home now!

[catmandu57]

40. I don't believe that we'll ever see anything

like this on the evening news. Not as long as the corporate whores run the show anyway. That's why there hasn't been any outrage, the average joe doesn't have clue one as to what's going on.

When the anchors go to Baghdad and report on all the electricity being restored, all the clean water, and streets that can now be found. All the shops selling western movies and music, instead of burning cars and bodies, instead of the thousands of Iraqis who want to rule themselves, who want us gone, yesterday.

We're going to be there until this stuff starts showing up, everytime it happens. Then maybe the questions will be asked Didn't they have electricity before? Didn't they have running water and clean streets before? What the hell is wrong with these people? Don't they want western movies and music and consumer goods and democracy?

Why the hell don't they just shut the fuck up and let us steal their natural resources?

Goddamn fucking bush* to hell, goddamn fucking cheney to hell, goddamn all of the sleazy fucking bastards that put these thieves in a position to do this to the Iraqis and us.

[Spoon]

45. All the Iraqis in these ugly photos happen to be well dressed.

This reminds me more of the LA riots then Somolia. Food for thought.

[havocmom]

57. Iraq, though in the grips of a nasty man,

had a population of people who were not living as refugees. Most of the population is not of some fundamental Muslim culture. They did not tend to dress like folks under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Now US neocon policy is being enacted there, shredding the infrastructure and killing thousands of people. The more radical elements will have little trouble recruiting because of the rage US occupation is instilling.

Food for thought

[Spoon]

63. Yep, I'm sure these CIVILIANS were on their way

to shred more infrastructure. Please...

The reason I brought up the way the Iraqis are dressed in these photos is because it is an indication of them not being oppressed, in the classic sense, anyway.

Edit: Spelling

[Dhalgren]

78. Do you remember any stories from the start of the

American Revolution? Were the American rebels ragged, starved, and sunken-cheeked in 1775? No. Silly remarks are silly remarks, but this thread is about serious matters. If you want to disrupt, do it on another thread - this one matters.

[not systems]

83. Damn your right!

I can't believe we haven't taken their clothing as payment
for services rendered. No wonder this is costing so much we
just don't know how to tax our conquered subjects these days.

[havocmom]

132. the US invasion is what shreds the infastructure

I think you misunderstood my point. These people are defending their home and themselves and are rightously full of rage.

Perhaps I misunderstood your point about the dress. I was concerned that you might be suggesting a staged event. Sorry about my error

[Roaming]

188. The people who did this are Saddam supporters, not the typical Iraqi

citizen. I just don't believe there is any excuse for doing this to another human being. The Germans suffered horrible economic consequences (starvation, etc.) after WWI and were enraged against the Jews. That doesn't justify what they did to the Jews!

[not systems]

193. Your metaphor has stretched past the breaking point.

Let see if I got you right:

Iraqis = Germans
Americans = Jews

You really need to refine this to something less ridicules.

[Roaming]

200. Metaphor maybe not ideal, but all I'm saying is that rage about something

is no excuse to behave worse than an animal... even if the rage is the result of some wrong done to the people.

[not systems]

205. Yes of course killing must be clean and hygienic like...

a push button high altitude bombing or a lethal injection.

These people are so much less civilized about killing than we are.

Turning a restaurant full of civilians into "pink mist" is righteous
and just but killing agents of an occupying army is being "worse than an animal"
thanks for the clearing up the morality of us vs. them.

They didn't ask for this war or start it.

We did.

[Roaming]

207. Why the bending over backwards to defend what these savages did?

I didn't say killing in other ways was any better or worse; I'm just looking at what happened here.

[not systems]

208. Why ignore that we occupy their land?

What they did was awful and a tragedy for the families
of the dead but to ignore the fact that they live there
and we are unwelcome and uninvited invaders removes
vital context to understanding that Bush and others
who have created this war are to blame for every American
death that happens in Iraq.

To look at "what happened here" in a vacuum is to ignore
our own war guilt.

[Roaming]

209. The fact we occupy their land does not give them moral carte blanche

to do what they did. There is no excuse as to what they did. How anyone can look at the sadistic glee in the faces of these people and say that they were justified in their actions... I just cannot fathom it.

[Jacobin]

210. Let me ask you a question

If America were invaded and occupied by a foreign power, say China, and they came around at night knocking down the door to your house, feeling up your daughter and wife and hauling your sons away to jail on unsubstantiated charges, the unemployment rate was 70%, you and your family were hungry, your nephews and uncles were killed with bombs during "shock and awe", the invaders said they would leave as soon as they toppled Bush and got rid of his WMD's but then they said they were gonna stay basically forever, and they were stealing our natural resources, and they insisted on imposing their form of government on us, and then picked the puppets to run our government...........I don't know about you, but I think I would easily be pissed enough to burn an invader and drag his body through the streets. But hey, that's just me.

[Roaming]

226. We can have sympathy for the plight of a people but still condemn

brutal actions that they take.

If I was in the situation you outlined (God forbid), I honestly do not believe I could devolve into such brutality; but I am a sinner and it's impossible to foresee every situation.

I suppose all humans, me included, could devolve to such behavior. However, even arguing that, IT WOULD STILL BE WRONG.

Any and all killing is ugly business, to be certain. I guess what really pushed me over the edge in this case was seeing people HAPPY about it. It just makes me shudder.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

232. Tell me, were US soldiers filmed cheering...

after they MURDERED a wounded Iraqi soldier during this illegal war?

The answer is YES. Of course there was no outrage over THAT incident, was there?

[not systems]

212. I said no such thing.

I suggest looking at the blood on our own dripping hands
before judging others to be animals.

Have you ever seen the pictures of Mussolini's mutilated body?

Were the people who killed him "animals" or just pushed to extremes by circumstance?

Did you feel joy or disgust at the pictures of Uday Hussein's autopsy?

That display of surgical disfigurement was payed for and done in our name.

Does that make us "animals"?

How many felt joy at his bloated and painted head?

How many chuckled at his metal bone removed and laying on the table
next to his boneless mangled leg?

Who are we to judge when we commit such atrocities?

[yardwork]

239. Whaaaaaat?

Your metaphor is offensive. The Jews didn't invade Germany and murder German children, for starters.

[agincourt]

51. Its a very good distraction,

It'll make people over here ballistic about "dem damn ragheads". Thats why all dictators love small wars. It's win/win for Bush politically. I'm sorry, but those people should be liking us by now.

[Barrett808]

52. More grim photos

Iraqis chant anti-American slogans on a bridge over the Euphrates River where charred bodies are hanging in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, Wednesday March 31 2004. Enraged Iraqis in this hotbed of anti-Americanism killed four foreigners Wednesday, including at least one U.S. national, took the charred bodies from a burning SUV, dragged them through the streets, and hung them from the bridge spanning the Euphrates River. (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/481/bag11203311352)

Iraqis chant anti-American slogans as charred bodies hang from a bridge over the Euphrates River in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, Wednesday, March 31 2004. Enraged Iraqis in this hotbed of anti-Americanism killed four foreigners Wednesday, including at least one U.S. national, took the charred bodies from a burning SUV, dragged them through the streets, and hung them from the bridge. (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/481/bag10803311349)

An Iraqi youth cheers in front of a burning vehicle in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, Wednesday March 31, 2004. Gunmen in Fallujah attacked two civilian cars that residents said were carrying up to eight foreign nationals. The occupants of the cars were killed and their vehicles were set on fire. (AP Photo/Abdel Kader Saadi) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/481/bag10403310947)

[Barkley]

104. Kick!

Barrett888 your posts are always good.
Please keep up the great work.
Thanks.

[Barrett808]

164. Thank you, you're very kind

I'm just a dedicated newshound, that's all.

[Crunchy Frog]

126. Look at how young they are.

Many of them are just children. I'm afraid that this is the face of the future of this occupation.:-(

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

171. The WH was expecting an increase in insurgency, so no worries

The White House has everything under control.




An Iraqi boy flashes the victory sign near a charred body hanging from a bridge over the Euphrates River in the flashpoint town of Fallujah. Angry residents armed with shovels mutilated the charred bodies of two people, believed to be foreigners, caught in an insurgents'attack and warned the rebel Iraqi town would be the 'cemetery' of US occupation forces.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/photos_wl_me_afp/040331154932_n3bje8qh_photo1



An Iraqi boy holds a leaflet in broken English that reads 'Fallujah, the cemetery of the Americans,' near a burning car in Fallujah.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040331/photos_wl_me_afp/040331185512_ycml005l_photo1

[doc03]

56. OK the Bushco response will be," It shows that we are winning and

how desperate they are."

[lebkuchen]

60. This presidential race is simply between the smart and the dumb

it doesn't get much simpler than that. Unfortunately at least 40% of the population of the U.S. qualifies as Homo Sapien in physical appearance only, so it's going to be a long campaign.

[zonmoy]

199. 40 percent is way to low for the number of idiots in this country

[Barrett808]

58. Gruesome video here -- victims were US military (dogtags, flak jackets)

http://news.yahoo.com//p/v?u=/ap_av/20040331/av_ap_wl/2f7b853a87cd005709cf45e2f9ab7299&cid=452&f=53746348

(you'll have to endure an ad)

[qanda]

61. That is so completely sad

I watched this video and cannot believe how completely filled with hate these people are. They really, really hate America. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I think about the innocents on both sides. The American soldiers didn't ask to be there and the Iraqis didn't ask for them to come and so who can you blame?

[Cocoa]

64. the people that sent them there

[The Stranger]

66. If you can't believe how "completely filled with hate these people are,"

then you haven't been following current events lately. Here's a little update. "These people" have had their country and their homes bombed, destroyed and/or invaded, uncounted thousands of people (including their friends and family) summarily annihilated, have been proselytized by subhuman garbage seeking to convert them to "Christianity," and can, at best, only look forward to a future of occupation and endless, bloody civil war, all of which -- make no mistake about it -- was the intended aim and consequence of the invasion by the Neoconservatives.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

95. you don't even know who they are

all you have is a picture, and your racist stereotypes.

Have you ever been to Iraq? Do you speak Arabic?

[frankly_fedup2]

119. No stereotypes here . . . fact

No, I've never been there, but I have friends and colleagues who have lived there and we have discussed a lot of things. They were born there, lived there, got the hell out of there. They should know shouldn't they?

[progressiverealist]

120. THEY live in tribes eh?

What tribe do you live in? Let me guess... it it Pentacostal, Assembly of God, Evengelical Free, or some other stripe?

[Just Me]

187. "Understanding" fails as a balm to the wounds of this insanity.

All forms of violence bring backlash, eventually.
The ultra-right-winging things' viciousness will ultimately come back to haunt them,...always has and always will. I imagine them being consumed by their own darkness.

Full responsibility for escalation of violence is justly assigned to the freon neocons for provoking such desperate emotion. They are the ones who felt completely, without conscience/guilt, free to unleash the greatest arms of destruction against innocent peoples. They are the ones who were so arrogant as to provoke others with their righteous "bring it on" bullshit. They apparently never sense guilt about exploiting others, especially those in obviously weaker positions (just like any other bully). They are the ones who intentionally deceived their own and all others in order to execute their extraordinary gluttonous "dreams of empire". They are the ones who should be forever burdened with the humility and sacrifice they recklessly forced upon the masses. They are the bearers of destruction, not peace,...and they should be held fully accountable.

The freon neocons are an abomination to human potential.

[saigon68]

96. They aren't throwing flowers?

They are dousing corpses with gas and settling them on fire. Then displaying the bodies like the Chimp displayed Uday Hussein.

[tedzbear]

220. Uday Hussein is a perfect comparison.

We displayed his corpse's face all over CNN and Faux while Bush and Cheney gloated in press conferences.

There is no difference between the two. Both are vicious and uncivilized.

I remember when the Uday celebration was going on. I had a bad feeling about it in the pit of my stomach. Sort of like, "How low can Bush go..."

The answer: Loooooooooooooooooooowwwwww!

[Barrett808]

73. CNN is reporting that the victims were "contractors"

Not showing any of the bodies.

[saigon68]

98. Guess their "contracting" days are over

Can't wait to hear the whole story

[BeHereNow]

77. Oh Man...

Talk about hell on earth- this is it.

Sounds like they were part of the mercenary soldier
force. Weapons found in cars, Flak jackets but
dressed as civilians.
I think the rage, clearly evident, in these people is
completely beyond most people's comprehension.
But to begin to understand it, one must imagine
what one would feel after watching the death of
a beloved child due to the sanctions of medical supplies.
Or the death or mutilation of a loved one as the
result of the merciless bombings, and for what reason?
Weapons of mass destruction that were never found?
I ask myself how I would feel if my door was kicked in
and my daughter forced to lie on the floor with her
wrists bound in plastic hand cuffs-
All of these things we have done to these people
and worse. They are human beings who love their
families just like us. I shudder to think what they have endured
to now be so desensitized towards other people,
and having not lived what they have lived through,
I shudder also to think of how I might act exactly as they
do if I experienced what they are experiencing.
As the saying goes, every man is a variation of yourself.

BHN

[Barrett808]

182. As I expected, they have edited out all the gruesome shots

Too much for delicate American sensibilities, I guess.

[The_Casual_Observer]

218. Iraq is probably the only place on earth right now

Where an american is immediately shot, burned and hung up on a rusty bridge in front of a cheering crowd.

No shit, the US occupation force, when they are forced to leave secure? bases, wear full battle dress and travel in heavily armored trucks and tanks. This isn't going to stand. Looks like the insurrection is well underway. The question is, what is the military going to do about it? The potential for genocide is overwhelming, and the attitude of the typical US citizen is very much the same as the German population in the late 30's.

[johnnie]

62. Open arms?

"This is the fate of all Americans who come to Falluja," said Mohammad Nafik, one of the crowd surrounding the bodies.


Some body parts were pulled off and left hanging from a telephone cable, while two incinerated bodies were later strung from a bridge and left dangling there.


A young boy beat one of the incinerated bodies after it was pulled down with his shoe as a crowd cheered.


"I am happy to see this. The Americans are occupying us so this is what will happen," said Mohammad, 12, looking on. "
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040331/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Sure isn't what we are hearing at home. I thought the Iraqi people were jumping for joy at their liberation. This is just getting to be too much.
It makes me ill to think * started this shit. The sad part is, when that son of a bitch is back in Texas, the new administration will take the heat for all the shit that's coming as a result of this.

[dryan]

65. Completely disgusting

I don't care who these poor people are, no one deserves to die like this. The Somolis did this to US Servicemen too. That is what is going to happen next?

[Spentastic]

68. The marines

will probably kill a few "towel heads" in revenge and it's get worse and worse until America finally wakes up and withdraws.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

67. We don't get such detailed news reports of the tens of thousands of Iraqis

who were incinerated by U.S. bombs, tanks and super-high tech killing machines. This includes women, children and old men sent to fight and die against the crushing invasion. We don't get any pictures either. In fact, although there were tens of thousands more of the Iraqis who were incinerated, dismembered and forgotten in the desert or on the streets, we don't get a single fact reported about any of these deaths whatsoever.

Do you wonder why? Who will speak for them?

[jmcgowanjm]

70. OK, the 1st Marines Expeditionary is battling in Fallujah

And I mean hard, according to reports from last
5 days.

Now, these "contractors" are just what-repairing local infrastructure? Now?
What the hell are these "contractors'" doing in a
Battle Zone? I count these as dead CIA/USsoldiers until
clarification. You can bet the Iraqiis are.

Now, at least 5 GI's KIA nearby according to USAToday.
How nearby, like maybe a block away?

Who counted the 5. And you can bet Centcom wouldn't
be saying 5 if some BBC/Reuters guy hadn't seen
the bodies.

[Sandpiper]

74. Shocking and Sad

Those photos are absolutely horrifying. But it seems like America needs a good shock these days, to remind everyone of the visceral horrors of this war.

War isn't cutesy face reporters wearing a camouflage jacket and riding on the back of the tank. War is death, destruction, carnage and despair, and ultimately the most dehumanizing event that anyone could ever experience.

I can understand the hurt, shock and anger that people feel from seeing these bodies desecrated, and my heart goes out to the families of the victims. I can also understand the rage that the Iraqi people feel toward their American occupiers, who visited scenes like this upon them tens of thousands of times. Our armed forces have killed over 10,000 of these people's husbands, wives, sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers.

The saddest part of all of this is that it was completely avoidable. If our warmonger President did not have such a pathological desire for bloodshed in Iraq, these people would still be at home with their families.

Damn you Mr. Bush. Damn you straight to hell.

[Capt_Nemo]

80. It is called reaping the whirlwind

These guys were working for the invader, they should accept the
risks of being in a war zone on the side of the aggressor and
occupier.
Got killed? Tough luck!

[mobuto]

85. This just makes me sick

Solidarity with the families. Words cannot been to describe the feeling of disgust.

[Mari333]

97. I BEG ALL OF YOU

Please call your congresspeople and senators now and scream at them to bring our troops home now..Michael is right in Baghdad, I cant go to him and grab him and get him out please do this please
so many kids are there and no one has been listening to any of us we call and call and call and no one listens to us
please do this please help me get Michael out of there I am begging you guys please help us get all the kids out of there please
Michael last email told me its worse and worse every day please please its so bad there

[BeHereNow]

109. (((Love and Hugs))) to you Mari-

I would be insane right now if my child was over there.
My nephew is in Afghanistan and I have not heard
from him for months, but if he were in Iraq in the middle
of this cluster fuck, I would not sleep.
Maybe we are just going to have to form a
conyoy of Mothers Reclaiming Their Children to
go to Iraq and bring them home.
I have a feeling that convoy would have the support
of the Iraqi people. Iraqi and American mothers in solidarity.
The men have been running the show long enough
and have failed miserably.
I sure as hell don't believe our Congress will get them out.
They are, after all, beholden to the corporate fucks
who are reaping the profits from our children's and
the Iraqi people's blood.
It is so frustrating to call Washington and be
patted on the head...
Love and Strength to you-
I am praying a circle of light around your child, right NOW.
BHN

[Mari333]

127. Im talking to a SF Chronicle man today to demand just that

I am terrified and angry. Ive been screaming this at the top of my lungs about it for months now, to everyone, that Michael has been telling me its getting worse and worse.
No one listens, hardly anyone listens.
what will it take?
I am losing it, but I have to get this kid home.

[mmm]

153. Mothers Reclaiming Their Children

Even a small number, perhaps
10,000, Mothers marching toward Iraq to Reclaim Their Children
would set off a firestorm of peace. No US soldiers would dare
fire on 10,000 Mothers. What would happen?

The ISM does this with some success in defence of Palestine.
Civilians who are fed up and won't let it happen anymore.
Could it work here, as well?

[Mari333]

167. I am suggesting that today. we need help to do it tho

thats why Im talking to the SF Chronicle. Mothers and fathers reclaiming their kids, or holding hands with Iraqi mothers and fathers and families here or there and demanding this end.
Someone has to make peace. There are little children running the country now...little brats. The Mothers have to reign in the brats in charge of our country.

[progressivebydesign]

125. We're trying.. we really are.

I think of Michael often, every time I hear things like this, today. I hope you understand the posts on this thread are out of sheer frustration and anger that we are putting our soldiers in harm's way every day. Keep the faith. I know everyone on DU has Michael in mind when they put a face to this situation. Perhaps the tides are turning..

[enki23]

100. then don't go to iraq

profiteers make poor martyrs. it's sad that this man was killed. sadder still that he probably died defending some CEO's future bonus package.

[Mari333]

135. the soldiers dont want to be there and many are teenagers

and kids who went from fear that they would be in jail otherwise. they dont want to be there and its time for the troops to come home now

[enki23]

154. and they are a completely different case

i want them home now as well. i never wanted them to go, in fact.

[doc03]

105. General Kimmit on CNN "They're desperate"

[The_Casual_Observer]

107. This may be a turning point

One of those guys held up some dog tags, so possibly somebody was US military. My guess is that those were CIA people of some sort. I have never seen anything so horrible as that scene.

I don't think it will play very well in the "heartland". The really hard thing to get around is that the crowds looked to be average Iraqis and LITTLE KIDS. Even the stupid asses in this country have got to be asking themselves if this is worth it.

[diamond14]

118. NYT: an American passport AND another's US Department of Defense ID

After the attack, residents told The A.P. that the burned cars contained weapons and that some of the bodies were dressed in flak jackets. The A.P. television network showed one American passport near a body and a United States Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

The steadily deteriorating security situation in the Falluja area, west of Baghdad, has become so dangerous that no American troops or Iraqi security staff members responded to the attack today. There are a number of police stations in Falluja and a base of more than 4,000 marines nearby. But even while the two vehicles burned, sending plumes of inky smoke over the closed shops of the city, there were no ambulances, no fire engines and no security present.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/31/international/worldspecial/31CND-IRAQ.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=

[Cooley Hurd]

122. Jesus... I just saw the AFP slideshow pictures on Yahoo...

Indescribable. Absolutely at a loss for words. I can't, in good conscience, give a link to them because even a disclaimer can't prepare you for such horrid images... :(

The Iraqis must hate us so much to do something as barbaric as that. And, despite hearing the contrary from CENTCOM, it's the entire population that hates us, not the "desperate few" that they claim. The pictures show children dancing next to the charred bodies, for heavens sake!

Damn it! :( Our presence there is not only no longer welcomed, it's vehemently despised. I've changed my mind - it's time for a complete pullout. Bush needs to pull together a real coalition consisting of both the UN and a coalition of Middle East nations to go in as a peacekeeping force, and get our troops the HELL OUT!

[tedzbear]

134. This is nothing. Wait until the Shiites turn on us...

They have been politely waiting for a year to see how we will handle the turn-over. If Bush blows it and antagonizes them, then this kind of situation will multiply into a revolt that will make Viet-nam look like a cakewalk.

Bring our troops home NOW!

:kick:

[saigon68]

147. You make too much sense

I wish they would listen to this reasoning, but alas, the Chimp will not.

He likes guys like Zell Miller too much, ex-marines who want to kick ass.

Wait until the "Elections" are postponed and a Chalabi type Dictator is seated on the Peacock throne.

Then the shit will hit the fan

[daleo]

128. Remember the "Highway of Death"

We (or at least the U.S. military) had little compunction then about incinerating tens of thousands of conscripts as they retreated in panic. These people all had family, who have memories. Then there was the suffering created by sanctions. Many died, due to shortages of medicine and sanitation infrastructure. These people all had family, who have memories. Then there were the thousands killed by Shock and Awe, collateral damage, etc. These people all had family, who have memories.

It should hardly come as a surprise that there is a huge reservoir of resentment and desire for revenge that has built up in Iraq, directed at westerners in general and Americans in particular.

[mobuto]

145. Not the same thing

We were at war with Iraq and we attacked its army. It doesn't matter whether it is retreating or advancing, when you're at war you attack your enemy's army. I really don't have a problem with that.

The civilian mob here, however, wasn't trying simply to fight Americans. Iraqis have killed Americans before and they will do so again. What they did was drag, dismember and hang American corpses. And that's just disgusting.

[GermanDJ]

149. A perfect tool for propaganda

The media can enhance this - really disgusting - incident and make the public forget for a moment that the US military, alongside its so-called allies, has killed thousands of people in a country where it has absolutely no reason to be.

I'm pretty sure that this specific tactic was used many times before.
Be it to apologise atrocities conducted or financed by the US and Great Britain in Iran, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Turkey (Kurds), Haiti, etc.

Or nowadays the killing of more than one Million Iraqis after the second Gulf war and several tens of thousand Iraqis since last year.

[daleo]

155. I am not talking about rules of warfare

I am saying that event (Highway of Death) contributed to the hatred felt by many Iraqis for U.S. policy and probably even a visceral hatred for Americans as people (other westerners too, I would think). Whether you or I have a problem with it is immaterial in terms of the feelings of the Iraqi population.

As for mutilating the dead, I am not condoning it, just saying it is not surprising that the population would lash out in ways that seem barbaric. War is ugly, and disgusting.

[not systems]

195. "It doesn't matter whether it is retreating or advancing"

You are wrong it was a slaughter and many of the people
who carried it out found it disgusting and wrong.

You don't kill surrendering enemy you take them prisoner.

[tedzbear]

214. Never mind...

[diamond14]

130. NYT: video currently on front on-line edition.....

under the photo and the main story....there's a video link (caution, graphic)....

http://www.nytimes.com/

[KC]

136. It

sure doesn't sound like we are 'winning the war on terrorism' does it?
The hate continues to grow and just gets more violent each day.

KC

[SodoffBush]

137. Is Bush out of bed yet?

Or is he already at Camp David in preparation for a week-long (month long?) spring break?

Rehearsing his three lines, no doubt, about WMD, evil doers, and his desire to bring "democracy" to the Iraqi people.

[EV1Ltimm]

150. uhh... i counted 12 jubilant iraqis at the most.

... from the pictures i saw at least.

no matter how horrific these dozen or so iraqis are, i refuse to condemn the rest of them.

[The_Casual_Observer]

160. Who are you trying to kid?

And what gives us the right to condemn anybody after flag wavers cheered on "Shock & Awe".
Any US occupation storm trooper or mercenary over there is fair game for these guys.

[EV1Ltimm]

170. there's a difference between

killing someone in combat and killing someone in the streets and then hanging their charred remains from a bridge. If you don't want to condemn such a barbaric act that's up to you.

I've never supported the war, but i don't try to justify the killing of my fellow countrymen.

And all i was saying in my original post was that just because a dozen iraqis perpetrated such a heinous act, it doesn't mean that all iraqis are responsible for it, so we should be responsible with the statements that are made.

[The_Casual_Observer]

173. I guess that they have you somehow believing

that there isn't a war going on over there right now, huh?

Just maybe this is their form of "combat" and so there really isn't much difference no matter how you look at it.

[EV1Ltimm]

175. doesn't justify mutilation. eom.

[NNN0LHI]

177. Sorry. But dead is dead

Don't make no difference if a 2000 pound bomb falls on someones head or if they get hacked to pieces in the street. Dead is still dead. Thats is just a fact. I hate this shit as much as you do. But what are we going to do about it? Maybe the answer is to start slaughtering the same people we just liberated to get them into line? Got any suggestions? I sure don't.

Don

[EV1Ltimm]

190. no suggestions here... i just think it sucks. eom.

[NickB79]

176. See Post #15

I count at least 25, with more behind them it appears.

[EV1Ltimm]

191. please excuse me, i'm mildly retarded.

[The_Casual_Observer]

225. No way!

Your opinion is valued and your heart in in the right place.

Peace.

[Barrett808]

151. McClellan: There are some who want to intimidate the Iraqi people"

The White House condemned the "horrific attacks by people who are trying to prevent democracy from moving forward," said spokesman Scott McClellan, adding: "But democracy is taking root.

"We condemn these attacks on the strongest possible terms," McClellan added.

"There are some who want to intimidate the Iraqi people, who want to intimidate the coalition, they want to intimidate the international community and they cannot."

-- "Insurgents kill five US soldiers, four civilian contractors in west Iraq,"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040331/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us

You know what, Scott? Those people in the video are not intimidated.

[saigon68]

156. McClellan " Those people trying to prevent democracy from moving forward,"

My comment

Hey ass wipe, when are the elections?, what parties can run candidates? where are the polling places? Is there going to be media coverage? Will your ballots have Chads? Who will supervise the elections?

He is a two faced liar--- Democracy my ass. They have no intention of any elections there.

[The_Casual_Observer]

158. Looks to me like these "intimidators"

are the average Iraqi citizens. They don't care who knows who they are, they stare directly into the camera. There is a brutal insurrection going on over there right now. It can't be much longer till they admit it. The US military is actually afraid to go in to those areas anymore, since the only thing that they could do would be to proceed with genocide.

[wildwww2]

189. Bullcrap McClellan. Bu$h Inc.`s Crusade is what they are against.

He needs to be called the liar he is everyday. As should his court installed boss. This war crime is just to make the selection close enough for the GOP to steal. And nothing else. This war crime cannot be won. It can only be used to divide our country. And unite the world against us. So Bu$h can have Orwellian war forever.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[saigon68]

159. And now from our friends on the far right

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1108764/posts


To: kattracks
Exterminate them. We have most of them on film, just round them up and kill them.

16 posted on 03/31/2004 10:18:37 AM PST by McGavin999 (Evil thrives when good men do nothing!)



To: EggsAckley
Falluja? Surround it, call the innocents out and remove it from the maps.

6 posted on 03/31/2004 10:11:59 AM PST by CindyDawg
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies >

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: kattracks
These people are animals.

7 posted on 03/31/2004 10:12:27 AM PST by lady lawyer
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

Destroy the barbarians!
I second that!

It's the only thing barbarians respond to.

They will be as kind & gentle as choir boys once they are correctly "disciplined".


13 posted on 03/31/2004 10:17:01 AM PST by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)

[The_Casual_Observer]

162. To: "lady lawyer"

Honest to God. I will buy you a first class ticket to Baghdad if you will go there and attempt and carry out your threat.

Oh and by the way "Lady Lawyer" fuck you.

[DinahMoeHum]

166. Better be sure that's a ONE-WAY ticket. . .

and if she wants sympathy from us, tell her to look it up in the dictionary. It's between the words "shit" and "syphillis"


:nuke:

[saigon68]

165. More Right Wing reflections on mass murder

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1108764/posts


Kinda makes me appreciate the kind of ethnic cleansing Milosovic and Hussein dabbled in.

What would be the world consensus if the United States completely flattened say...Fallujah?

Why haven't fighter planes pinpointed the crowds celebrating the mutilation of the burnt bodies? Why aren't these evil, ignorant Iraqis been killed by now?

I am afraid Bush will not be able to withstand a daily dose of American casualties such as the 5 GIs killed today by roadside bombs triggered electronically, etc..

We cry that Saddam murdered thousands of Shiites. We need to do the same to the Baathists. (sp?)


35 posted on 03/31/2004 10:25:52 AM PST by DCPatriot
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies >

Time for a final solution to the Falluja problem
Falluja


36 posted on 03/31/2004 10:26:27 AM PST by paul51
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies >


"Bill O'Reilly right now on the radio is saying to level the town. Let people out first, but without weapons. If anyone stays, they die. I agree."

Let people out my a##!! The only thing these lowlifes understand is brutality. Kill em all, let God sort em out!


48 posted on 03/31/2004 10:34:43 AM PST by Shadow Deamon
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies >


Anybody but me, think these animals are in a feeding frenzy???

[Mari333]

172. these ignorant people!! if we attack Iraq anymore our soldiers

will be targetted even more..
These people dont have their kids in Baghdad. Idiots!! morons! they watch TV and dont have a damned thing to lose
Maybe the fucking draft will wake them up
www.bushdraft.com
idiots! all of them wont admit that BY CONDONING AND BACKING BUSH THEY ARE JUST AS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY DEAD SOLDIER AND WOUNDED SOLDIER OVER THERE FOR NOTHING
FOR NOTHING

[iamjoy]

216. Sickening....

yes, Mr. O'Reilly, at first I thought you were right on, evacuate the people and level the town.

It's just heart-wrenching and infuriating what they are doing.

But to punish them all...

How would you feel if some one in your neighborhood committed a heinous crime and the police didn't know the individual, just that he came from your neighborhood so they decided to level it and let God sort it out? Or arrest everybody and let the courts figure who is guilty and who is innocent?

I don't want to see those pictures, but I sure hope all the warmongers in this country are shown them. I hope they see the film over and over, I hope when they close their eyes, that image is emblazoned on the inside of their eyelids. I hope they see those images in their sleep...

[The_Casual_Observer]

222. "Just drop a bomb"

That was the standard answer to the Vietnam "conflict" problem.

Never mind that we had/have no business being there in the first place, but since we ARE there and it isn't going well and it there isn't any clear easy answers, then we might as well just level the whole goddamn place and be done with it.
I and probably many others lived with this kind of illogic all throughout my youth in the 60's.
The youth of today now is equally cursed.

[Barrett808]

236. This may be a good time to plug the "Send Trent Lott to Iraq" petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/SendLott/petition.html

To: Senate of the United States of America
On 29 October 2003, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) is reported to have suggested his final solution to the Iraq problem:

"We need to have a different mix of troops, is the key. We may need to move some troops around. Honestly, it’s a little tougher than I thought it was going to be. If we have to, we just mow the whole place down, see what happens. You’re dealing with insane suicide bombers who are killing our people, and we need to be very aggressive in taking them out." ("GOP unity is strained by attacks", by Geoff Earle, http://www.thehill.com/news/102903/gopunity.aspx)

We request that Senator Lott be sent immediately to Iraq to, in his own words, "mow the place down". Mr. Lott would bring the appropriate aggressiveness needed to stop "insane suicide bombers who are killing our people." It is clear that only Senator Lott understands the situation in Iraq, so it would be in America's best interest that the Senator go to Iraq immediately and clean it up.

We note that Senator Lott declined military service when he had the opportunity ("Chickenhawk Database", http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks), but with a few weeks of modern Army training, he should be prepared to patrol the streets of Fallujah and start mowing with gusto.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

[neverborn]

180. Get out...

We need to get out now... this is deteriorating faster than anyone thought. There was a Shi'ite/Sunni rally against us. If both of them come against us, we're F'd.

[SmokeyBlues]

181. All *hole all the time

"I am afraid Bush will not be able to withstand a daily dose of American casualties such as the 5 GIs killed today by roadside bombs triggered electronically, etc..

Propping up that fucking fool in the White House! That's what it's all about with these flaming jackasses! To hell with the American troops over in Iraq who are caught up in this illegal invasion.

I know that hate is a strong word and many people discourage its use, but you know...

[theHandpuppet]

183. Where was the outrage....

for charred bodies such as these:



Targeting Shelters: The Al-Ameriyya Bombing - By far the single most heavily-publicized attack on civilians during the Gulf War -- and a major public relations nightmare for the Bush Administration -- was the bombing of the civil defense shelter in the Al-Ameriyya neighborhood of Baghdad in the early morning hours of February 13th, 1991. Between 200 and 300 people, including many children, from that middle-class area were killed. The scene of the slaughter was captured on videotape (though heavily censored by the US media), and journalist Laurie Garrett, viewing the unedited tape, reported: "Nearly all the bodies were charred into blackness... among the corpses were those of at least six babies and ten children, most of them so severely burned that their gender could not be determined." (12)

More at: http://www.stanleyaronowitz.org/iraq.shtml

Or for these:

The following are some of the practices that led to needless civilian deaths, according to Middle East Watch: (10)

Daytime bombing - During the air war, despite claims by the Pentagon that it was engaging in nighttime bombing to prevent civilian deaths -- and despite the fact that air superiority by the coalition, which allowed allied forces to "pick and choose" their targets, was achieved almost immediately after the beginning of the war -- many heavily-populated bridges and market areas were targeted during the daytime hours, resulting in substantial loss of life. (11) These incidents including the following: a mid-afternoon bombing of a bridge in Nasiriyya in southern Iraq (100 dead); the bombing of a marketplace in Falluja in Western Iraq (about 200 dead) -- an event at first denied, then admitted, by the allies; the attack on a footbridge in Samawa in southern Iraq (over 100 dead); four bombings of a crowded market area in the city of Basra in January and February (total casualties unknown); the bombing of an area east of the southern city of Hilla, where civilians were lined up to purchase cooking gas (about 200 killed or injured). In many of these instances, there was no known military purpose that the destruction of such targets (or any nearby locations) could have served.

Yes, maybe the Iraqis still remember the murder of their own civilians, including women and children blown to bits during the first Gulf War. Or more recently, the civilian deaths or the American forces firing upon protestors in Fallujah, or the unarmed Iraqi journalist there who was also killed by U.S. forces?

You think because we dropped our laser-guided missles from 35,000 feet our hands are free of blood? You think there aren't Americans in this country who CELEBRATE this war, are proud of what we're doing there? Is it morally worse to celebrate the death of civilians or to ignore them?

I hate this damn war, and I hate the killing on both sides. But I think it is the height of hypocrisy to see such outrage over the mutilation of four bodies when the whole of Iraq is littered with the charred and mutilated corpses of civilians we have killed, including women and children.

And BTW, just as an aside: at least one of those "civilians" was carrying a DoD ID. Just something you may not be hearing on the news reports.

[NNN0LHI]

198. 4 Killed in Iraq Worked for Security Firm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040331/ap_on_re_mi_ea/civilian_deaths&cid=540&ncid=1480

MOYOCK, N.C. - The four civilians killed in Iraq (news - web sites) on Wednesday worked for a North Carolina security firm that hires former military personnel from the United States and other countries.

Blackwater Security, based in northeastern North Carolina, provides security training and guard services. The company said in a statement Wednesday that it was a government subcontractor providing security for the delivery of food in the Fallujah area. snip

Blackwater President Gary Jackson and two other company leaders are former Navy SEAL commandos.

The company says it provides "mobile security teams" made up of former U.S. special operations troops or intelligence operatives. Those teams "stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of U.S. national security objectives, private or foreign interests," the company's Web site says.


___


On the Net:


Blackwater USA: http://blackwatersecurity.com

more

[Barrett808]

201. So did the insurgency know who they were killing?

Or did they just aim at the Americans?

[theHandpuppet]

204. They probably guessed...

... that armed Americans speeding through Fallujah weren't the Pizza Hut delivery guys.

Even some military commentators have wondered what the hell these men were doing in the middle of Fallujah considering the place is a tinderbox, and without offfical escort.

[daleo]

213. Bremer's bodyguard company is probably not a local favorite

"Epperson said the company's contractors provide protection to Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq."

I wonder to whom they were delivering the food. Probably not the local orphanage.

[saigon68]

223. Don repost this as a new thread

This shit needs to be exposed for what it is, Mercenaries operating with no rules whatsoever

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

242. adios

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

231. This has to be the most sad and sickening story of the whole war.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the famalies of those slain in Falluja.

That said, what the fuck did we expect? How many were so stupid to believe the Iraqis would welcome us with open arms? Instead of being the Iraqi people's salvation the occupation has been a boondogle for Haliburton.

What the fuck did we expect from an administration with Messianic tendancies that refused to listen to expert advice both in terms of the number of troops needed, the costs of the occupation in both money and lives plus the fact that in the list of priorites on the war on terror Iraq was the least pressin of our problems?

As I said I'm sad and sickened.

[Skeptical Democrat]

235. So sickening

[hedgetrimmer]

238. when those in power punish they teach those without power how to

punish... the Iraqi people are now in power and they have been punished quite a bit and by various sources and now they punish as they have been taught to.

[pinniped]

240. Anyone catch this coalition fvck that saying this today?

Something like:
---------
The people that did that today we are not there to help, they have to either be killed or captured.
---------

Well, you people are gonna have to kill pretty many thousands but I guess that matters not since the Iraqi death toll is already in the thousands.