Marines Seek to Pacify Fallujah

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040331/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_dangerous_city&cid=540&ncid=1480

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Newly arrived U.S. Marines are leaving no doubt as to their resolve to defeat militants. Iraqis are awed by the Americans' show of force but remain convinced that they'll fail to stamp out the insurgency in one of the most dangerous cities for American troops.


The fight against the U.S.-led occupation has strong religious undertones in Fallujah, reflecting the Sunni Muslim city's conservative nature, its reputation for piety and deep anti-U.S. sentiments.


Fallujah, some 30 miles west of Baghdad, a city so steeped in Arab and Islamic traditions that its famous kebab restaurants have the unusual feature of prayer rooms and women are rarely seen in public. It also is part of Iraq (news - web sites)'s Sunni heartland, a large swath of land that stretches north and west of the Iraqi capital where armed resistance to the U.S. occupation is fierce.


"We are all suffering from what the Americans are doing to us, but that doesn't take away anything from our pride in the resistance," said Saadi Hamadi, a 24-year-old university graduate and resident of Fallujah.

more

[aquart]

1. "Pacification?" Still mean what it did the last time?

Mass murder?

Pacification of the Middle East would require forty million dead. At least.

And even then it would just make more people mad at us.

Well, we told them not to go there.

[lebkuchen]

2. I think it means "neutralize." ntn

[saigon68]

23. It means terminate with Extreme Prejudice

They will have to kill them all.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. Phoenix Operation on a much grander scale...

...like the Nazis' "Final Solution".

[IndianaGreen]

28. Marines will pacify Fallujah like they did Hue in 1968

Remember who won that war?

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Looks like the pacification process isn't going so well

today?



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x454550

[lebkuchen]

4. I still haven't heard what division was involved

so, no, doesn't sound like the situation has been "neutralized" enough to know what the heck is going on. It sounds like it continues to be complete chaos.

[jmcgowanjm]

6. Camp Pendleton's I Marine Expeditionary Force

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/03/25/military/iraq/3_24_0422_52_26.txt

Replacing:

3rd Brigade of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division.

From:

http://192.156.19.109/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/oif

[tabasco]

10. Iraq will not be pacified until they retain control of their country.

US forces certainly will never pacify a country with a strong, nationalistic insurgency like Iraq. Sad but true. The Iraqi people want to control their own destiny. Did the Bush cabal really think the US could unilaterally conquer and pacify a country in a hostile region? Or is their only measure of success the amount of war profiteering that can be ddone? The gullible American people have allowed the military corporations to control our government once again. Thanks you goddam stupid republicans!

[Zhade]

24. WE are the insurgents, THEY are counter-insurgents.

As the invaders, the U.S.-led "coalition" are the insurgents in this situation.

And don't forget to blame the "progressives" who backed this bullshit while the rest of us were warning them and everyone else exactly what a disaster this new Viet Nam would be!

[saigon68]

25. You are SPOT ON

I for one screamed and shouted about the New Iraq-Nam coming a year ago.. It is too bad those posts on DU pre-July 2003 were lost.

I could post them now and rub their faces in the dust.

I got in numerous nasty fights with the progressives who wanted to invade.. Now look at the mess we are in

The draft will be starting soon. and IRAQ-Nam is only starting we have YEARS of this shit ahead of US

[Zhade]

26. I wish I wasn't.

I can't count the number of times I've been right about something even many progressives refuse to believe.

I sincerely wish I had been wrong on every single one of them.

I wasn't.

[Jacobin]

40. It doesn't seem like Vietnam was that long ago

It doesn't seem like those in power would have forgotten the "lessons" of Vietnam, i.e. you don't go invade a country that you know absolutely nothing about, when they haven't attacked you, for some dreamed up goal for the "good of the people". It doesn't fucking work, it never has and it never will.

The naivete of "progressives" and neo-cons is mind-boggling on this issue of conquest for sport. I've just finished reading Clarke's book, and the Wolfowitz's of the world will be the undoing of this country. They really will.

I suppose there will have to be more Kent States, blood in the streets of America and massive protests to end this damn thing, because as long as we occupy their country (and there is no end in sight), they will fight to remove us. Why wouldn't they?

[tabasco]

30. Insurgent does not equal invader.

Insurgent refers to a force fighting the power in control at the time. There is no perjorative connotation in "insurgent." There is a definition. Go look it up. We control Iraq. The opposition Iraqis are insurgents.

[Zhade]

31. No, but then, the government in Iraq is not legitimate, either.

The Iraqis certainly don't recognize it as such, and neither do I. Thus, my assessment stands, at least for those who do not accept the colonial government.

If you do accept it as such, well, then I guess you're right. :shrug:

[tabasco]

41. It doesn't matter if the group in control is legitimate.

Insurgents fight against the group in control. You seem to think insurgent is some kind of perjorative. It is not. It simply means a group fighting another group in control of a country.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. "Iraqis are awed by the Americans' show of force"

Shocked, even.

[GOPisEvil]

7. Hmmm...I thought the mission was accomplished.

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe George Bush is not telling me the whole truth.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. Nice one, " DEM" , thanks for sharing it with us

Did you get it from Rush or mebby Hannity?

[Barrett808]

15. Didn't expect that from ya, Dave

Do you really think bigotry will help the situation?

[TeeYiYi]

16. Sorry to hear . . .

. . . that coming from you demdave. Just goes to show you never REALLY know who you're blogging with.

TYY

[mmm]

17. I am quite certain the women are extremely awesome

why would you suggest otherwise?

[Columbia]

19. Do you mean unattractive?

They really work their women hard in Iraq. They practically do all the work while the men sit around and sip tea. They will walk all over the city carrying heavy bushels on their head. It's no wonder that they age before their years.

[thebigidea]

20. real funny. Bush can tell that one after the WMD joke.

[0007]

51. smoked!!

[jmcgowanjm]

9. And the only reason Centcom reported 5 KIA US

was because of witnesses-IMHO.

And the first reports I gathered at Bloomberg
said "at least".

And no mention of wounded.

[jpak]

11. Pacification - worked great in Vietnam

What next? "We had to "pacify" Fallujah in order to save it..."

[yellowcanine]

12. I gues they are "bringing it on".

Sometimes you get what you ask for. Thanks, shrubby.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Looks like they will have to kill the entire population

including all the 5 and 6 year old boys. However, I don't think they will have any problem at all with that, since they appear to be armed with sticks and stones. The marines prefer it that way.

[Longhorn79]

18. On the radio today

O'Reilly said they should let people have a chance to come out of Fallujah, and then level the whole city.

[The Stranger]

49. But first let's turn O'Reilly over to them.

Make him live there for a while before it gets "leveled."

[5thGenDemocrat]

32. Send the Marines (Tom Lehrer, 1965)

When someone makes a move
Of which we don't approve
Who is it that always intervenes?
UN and OAS
They have their place, I guess, but first
Send the Marines!

We'll send 'em all we've got
John Wayne and Randolph Scott
Remember those exciting fighting scenes?
To the shores of Tripoli
But not...to Mississipoli
When in doubt, we send the Marines!

For might makes right
Until they've seen the light
They've got to be protected
All their rights respected
Until someone we like can be elected

All members of the Corps
All hate the thought of war
They'd rather kill them off by peaceful means
Stop calling it aggression
Ooh, we hate that expression
We only want the world to know
That we respect the status quo
They love us everywhere we go, so first
Send the Marines!

John
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Glad I got out (of the Army) way, way back in 1976.

[lumpy]

21. The people of Fallujah

have not forgotten the 1991 marketplace bombing that killed 130 citizens. The relatives of those killed or wounded have revenge on their minds. Fallujah is a town composed mostly of Sunnis who realize they will have no part in determining the future of Iraq while the religious fundementalist Shiites and Kurds will be running the show.

[NickB79]

27. Good point

No matter what government rises out of the ashes, it will most certainly not give the Sunnis back the power they once held. Thus, they have nothing to lose in fighting the US forces.

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. "famous kebab restaurants "

Ok, I won't say it.

[burrowowl]

29. There is no resemblance

between Iraq and Vietnam.
Now where have I heard that word 'pacification' before, seems like it was in the 60's, although my encroaching Althzimer's may be playing tricks upon my mind.

[Aidoneus]

34. they will fail, and many will die trying

What a waste.

[Posinegativeman]

35. our pride in the resistance

I'd be real proud too if I were so brave as to murder innocents driving down the road and hang their bodies from bridges. That's some real brave resistance you got yourself there Saadi. You must be very proud today.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Nihil]

38. "Innocents"? Get a life

The people shot/burned/strung from the bridge were no innocents.
They were flak-jacketed, armed mercenaries in a war zone.
Tough shit.

PS: Nick UK - please cut out the wide-brush anti-Americanisms ... most
of the people here are the opposite of the bloodythirsty war-pigs.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Posinegativeman]

43. the people who were murdered were providing security for food delivery

Maybe it's time for the Iraqis' first American lesson in cause and effect...no more food convoys. Is that the kind of "tough shit" you are talking about?

[Nihil]

45. Four mercs in a Land Cruiser = "food delivery"?

They worked for PizzaHut, right?

> Maybe it's time for the Iraqis' first American lesson in cause and
> effect...no more food convoys.

Are you for real?

You think that maybe the last year of active combat hasn't "taught"
the Iraqis how the Americans behave?

You think that the preceding decade or so of illegal blockade hasn't
"taught" the Iraqis about the generous nature of crop-headed Americans?

You think that food convoys would be necessary if it wasn't for the
illegal actions of the obscene Bush dynasty?

FFS ...

[Jacobin]

42. Those "innocents" were mercenaries, dude

They get to use exploding bullets in their weapons that are banned from use by soldiers by the Geneva convention.

They are there to repress the Iraqis who are being occupied by an invading force. Iraq never attacked the U.S.

Am I to assume that if China invaded the U.S. that you would support the invading forces and decry any attempts to oust them, however horrific and bloody? Amazing stuff heard on this board of late.

[Posinegativeman]

44. Wrong. They were security for food deliveries

Nice try. If you have a credible link to back up your assumptions feel free to post it.

[markus]

46. Here's your link

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040331/ap_on_re_mi_ea/civilian_deaths&cid=540&ncid=1480

"The company's security-consulting business connects former special forces troops with jobs that may involve protecting people or places, or training foreign militaries."

Shall I wander over to dictionary.com and supply a definition of mercenary?

They are also supply security for the Administration (Bremmer).

I suspect that at least they were getting paid well for their work, as opposed to the poor s--ts from the NG and Reserve who've been over their for a year taking the brunt of the road side bombs (since many are on convoy duty).

At some level, I'm glad it was them and not some poor Guardsperson or regular army infantryman.

[saigon68]

47. They weren't delivering food

They are mercenaries

[saigon68]

48. Innocents?

These people were Flak Jacket Wearing Machine Gun Toting Mercenaries. Unfortunately for them they became the main course at the barbecue.

[The Stranger]

50. "Innocents?" I believe it is reported that they were "contract security

detail" from a corporation that hires former CIA paramilitaries, former SEALS and the like. In other words, innocent mercenaries.