Bush says in memoir he approved waterboarding

[ProSense]

Source: The Washington Post

Human rights experts have long pressed the administration of former president George W. Bush for details of who bore ultimate responsibility for approving the simulated drownings of CIA detainees, a practice that many international legal experts say was illicit torture.

In a memoir due out Tuesday, Bush makes clear that he personally approved the use of that coercive technique against alleged Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheik Mohammed, an admission the human rights experts say could one day have legal consequences for him.

In his book, titled "Decision Points," Bush recounts being asked by the CIA whether it could proceed with waterboarding Mohammed, who Bush said was suspected of knowing about still-pending terrorist plots against the United States. Bush writes that his reply was "Damn right" and states that he would make the same decision again to save lives, according to a someone close to Bush who has read the book.

Bush previously had acknowledged endorsing what he described as the CIA's "enhanced" interrogation techniques - a term meant to encompass irregular, coercive methods - after Justice Department officials and other top aides assured him they were legal. "I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Vice President Richard B. Cheney acknowledged in a television interview in February.



Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/03/AR2010110308332.html

[ixion]

1. Right, then. Off to the Hauge with you, Mr. Bush.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. No, we're not suppose to demand justice. It's too conflicting and divisive.

Think of us as a dysfunctional family. Think of us as the most screwed up one in the room is controlling the intervention.

[vanbean]

29. Don't you have to prove that waterboarding is torture first?

I know it is, but how do you prove it? And why am I the only one asking this?

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. It's easy. I don't know why the shrinks haven't thought about it.

Torture should be defined as the kind of physical or mental coercion that would make even a reasonable person confess that they gave Barbara Bush cunnilingus.

I mean, why do I have to always be the one to do the hard thinking for you people?

[rhett o rick]

44. So by your thinking alcohol is torture. I am sure I made that confession under the evil influence.nm

[The Backlash Cometh]

53. I think one of the main components of torture, is that someone has to do it

to you against your will.

[rhett o rick]

82. I have no idea who forced that last martini down my throat, but Barbara Bush started to look pretty

good.

[The Backlash Cometh]

91. LOL!

I knew a few Tories who got a rise from looking at Margaret Thatcher's chest.

But then again, we were talking about reasonable people...

[TheEuclideanOne]

59. I don't mean to brag, but

I did give Barbara Bush Cunnilingus.

[Jazzgirl]

62. Oh my!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[Qutzupalotl]

64. How is that bragging?

Oh, you mean the younger one. Never mind.

[rhett o rick]

84. Well you're the only one. nm

[Flatulo]

99. Thanks for that image. nt

[tblue37]

37. It is a war crime that we actually prosecuted perpetrators for in the past.

Obviously it was considered a crime then, and we have signed ontot he Geneva conventions, and it obviously violates them, as do many other practices that have beenn used by our people (especially contractors, but soldiers and intelligence oepratives, too) in these wars.

[24601]

61. Sure, we've been torturing our own pilots for years in SERE training.

Congress has had every opportunity to outlaw it as a technique we use on our own but hasn't done so.

[Doremus]

65. Boilerplate rightwing talking point n/t

[Enthusiast]

104. Same thing came to me. nt

[ProudDad]

77. Strawman!

Those pilots have the option to make it stop...

and are not coerced into being waterboarded...

and are not waterboarded by people who are TRAINED to hate their victim, for whom waterboarding is often a "control technique", etc. etc.

If you can't see the difference... :eyes:

[24601]

106. You're falling into a trap here. Joe kills Fred in a robbery. But it's

somehow worse if, in the process, Joe hates Fred? There's a reason motive isn't an element of crime and that the standard for conviction is conduct plus intent.

[ShamelessHussy]

89. Wrong.

It is illegal according to not only our laws but international laws which we are signatories to as well.

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Didn't we prosecute Japanese for warcrimes for waterboarding our boys

after WWII? Has something changed in the definition of torture since then?

[ProudDad]

78. BINGO!!! (n/t)

[social_critic]

85. Waterboarding is torture

Wikipedia

"Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the subject on his/her back with the head inclined downwards; water is then poured over the face into breathing passages, thus triggering the mammalian diving reflex causing the captive to experience the sensations of drowning"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

It would be impossible for a state to approve water boarding on prisoners as a form of punishment, unless of course that state is Texas. But I'm sure the Supreme Court would void it. Which means Bush is guilty under US law, and should be indicted, tried, and executed.

[ShamelessHussy]

87. It may be because u r the only one

Who doesn't know :shrug:

[Tanelorn]

39. Your honour , I would like to tender this book as evidence.

[Aslanspal]

41. Unrepentant Prick

The kid who put fire crackers up frogs asses and exploded them...a prick ...and our electorate let him get through.

[chervilant]

54. No! Please!

Let's call him what he is: a sociopath. But for his family name, and buttloads of money, he'd likely have been another Ted Bundy.

The Bush cabal,the "complicit democrats" and all of the other criminals infesting our system of government are the Corporate Megalomaniacs' personal whores. Perhaps, I should just say that the uber wealthy and the political elite are ALL whoring themselves for the almighty dollar.

These criminals (regardless of party affiliation) have succeeded in proving they can do just about anything, and the hoi polloi still focuses OUR attention on jobs (because, yes, we need to eat) and health care (because, yes, we need to be healthy). The criminal cabal doesn't think a revolution will happen here, because so many of the hoi polloi are struggling to survive, or have swallowed the wealth carrot meme. And, the vast majority of the criminal corporatists sniffingly dismiss the hoi polloi, because we are perceived by them to be fat, lazy, stupid, and mesmerized by the magic box that beams pretty pictures into our homes (with a sweet glaze of 'Bernays' sauce).

I say, watch out, Corporate Megs! The hoi polloi can only take so much. When we have nothing left to lose, those pitchforks and plowshares are going to come in mighty handy!

Also, Mr. Obama lost my support when he elected not to prosecute Bush, Cheney, and their fellow vile criminals (complicit democrats, as well). He iced that no-support cake when he appointed Arne Duncan to dismantle public education. I will NOT support his candidacy in 2012, especially not on the vapid excuse, "I'm so much better than the other guy!"

In summation, we ARE at war--here within our own borders. We just haven't snapped to it, yet.

[rhett o rick]

86. Sadly in our society, Ted Bundy gets the death penality and George Bush

responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people will get a library. Our society is so fucked. And dont think I am soft on Bundy.

[Divine Discontent]

46. what more does Holder need to hear? it's "ok" b/c the "president" ordered it?

[Fresh_Start]

2. Can the Hague find him guilty of war crimes

now that he's confessed?

[Demeter]

3. What about local justice?

SOmetimes I crack myself up :rofl:

[perdita9]

60. Yes

If the United States will not police it's own elected representatives, The Hague can pull Bush in and put him on trial for war crimes.

[hack89]

71. No

The US is not party to the ICC - the ICC would only have jurisdiction if the UN Security Council refers a case against Bush to the ICC. Since we have a veto that is a none starter.

[ProudDad]

79. YEP

if the provincial bastard ever left the country and visited a country who IS a signatory of the ICC...

[hack89]

94. Not really

The Rome statute governing the ICC specifically rules out universal jurisdiction.

Since neither the US or Iraq are party to the ICC, torture committed in US or Iraqi territory is not covered by the ICC - they simply do not have jurisdiction.

[Roland99]

4. I, for one, am *so* glad impeachment was off the table and that Obama let bygones be bygones

The Republicans would obviously have done the exact same thing and they were just engaging in a non-partisan manner.

[Zoeisright]

5. PROSECUTE.

That lying murderer just admitted to a war crime. Christ.

[Bob Loblaw]

11. Move along...

nothing to see here.

[Zoeisright]

56. Yeah, just the same crimes that the Japanese were convicted of in WWII.

After all, that's nothing!

:sarcasm:

[urgk]

16. Could congress order hearings? Then leave them for the R's to defend or eff up?

I mean, I'd love to see him go to jail, but I'd love even more to see the Republicans' first rule of business be holding hearings during which they struggle, Keystone Kops - style to either protect Bush or to pretend to prosecute. That beats taking the "w"s off the White House by miles.

(edited for punctuation)

[joshcryer]

23. It would never get out of committe.

And sadly the Senate does not have that power. So Bush is safe for at least 2 years. Frankly, if I were the Administration, prosecuting Bush would be the first thing I do once I got the House back.

[ProudDad]

80. The House is going to be too busy holding hearings

in order to handcuff the Obama Administration...

And maybe find "grounds for impeachment" -- like he's a Kenyan or wasn't born or something...

[tomp]

6. send a copy to obama/holder. nt

[Blasphemer]

7. They can admit these things because they know justice will never be served... nt

[Deep13]

25. +1

[KansDem]

8. Hey, does anybody know whether or not his book will tell why he did nothing to protect the US..

...against terrorism?

I, for one, would like to know why he sat and did nothing after being told we were under attack on 9/11.

No one in the MoneyMedia asked him that...

[tblue37]

38. I'd also like to know why he waved off the intelligence he received on

August 6. Sure, he was on vacation, but he could have pretended to cut brush or fished and biked a little later.

He blew it earleir than September 11.

[alanquatermass]

107. True blue!!! (Ha!) No, seriously, that's a good point...

-- but experience shows that most people on Democratic Underground (myself included) never take before-the-fact, preemptive action against suspected terrorism seriously. That is, whenever we hear about the U.S. Government "thwarting" an impending terrorist attack by placing certain "radicalized" individuals under arrest, we (again, I include myself here) always seem to take the position that the Gov't was acting rashly and irresponsibly and Who's To Say What Would Have REALLY Happened?

In short, WE NEVER QUITE BELIEVE SUCH ATTACKS WILL TAKE PLACE.

...Until they DO.

So I don't know what the PR fallout would have been if Bush HAD gone ahead and acted preemptively... even if he'd had the proper Intel to do so.

[alp227]

42. Matt Lauer scratched the surface in his upcoming interview

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/11/02/excerpts-from-nbc-news-matt-lauer-reports-interview-with-george-w-bush-airs-monday-november-8-at-8pm-et/70650

[ck4829]

10. Because the Inquisition found soooo many witches using waterboarding, right?

[louis-t]

12. When does his trial start?

Will C-SPAN cover it?

[Jumping John]

13. Bush never misses a chance to help the Taliban Recruit more enemy combatants against us. n/t

[Enthusiast]

105. Plus one. nt

[davidwparker]

14. news flash

:sarcasm:

[urgk]

15. How long does it take to organize a congressional hearing on that?

And then leave it -- a giant, wet, t*** for the Republicans to pretend they don't see when they take over?

[montanto]

17. I get scared when liars tell the truth for a minute.

Once when I was on a train in Paris I caught a guy trying to pick my pocket. I looked him in the eye, told him to get the fuck out of my pocket; he looked me in the eye and nodded, and went right back to trying to pick my pocket while I watched. I feel the same way now.

[prodigals0n]

18. Bush pleads guilty to war crimes. So when does the trial begin?

Developments in forensic science have perpetrators facing justice years after their crimes, yet even with this clear admission of guilt does this monster even face justice? No. He gets to write a book and open a library.

There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

We must still be looking forward and not back.

[Roy Rolling]

19. shocked!!

"I am shocked to find there is gambing in Casablanca." I mean, really, these asshats admit to torture with impunity and all the American leadership can drone on about is why multi-millionaires do not have to pay taxes because they are special.

[tjwash]

20. Translation...fuck you world, just reminding y'all we can do whatever the hell we want to.

[bergie321]

21. I would like to mark this

As exhibit A.

[Ozymanithrax]

22. Nations such as Spain that take seriously their right to charge, indict,

arrest, and try war any war criminal could charge him on the strength of his on confession.

He should be careful about where he travels.

[Nostradammit]

40. I'm pretty sure the extent of his travels these days

is from the sofa to the liquor cabinet and back.

[hack89]

72. Spain isn't stupid

that is a provocation they would never dare attempt.

[ProudDad]

81. They did it to that criminal Pinochet...

why not bush?

Although you're partly right. The Spaniards have emasculated that great Spanish judge who did cause Pinochet to be arrested.

Where's the provocation? You think Obama will retaliate?

[hack89]

96. Obama may find himself in front of the ICC if such a precedence was allowed

you are for it because a liberal county would prosecute a hated right wing president. Would you support a right wing country prosecuting Obama for war crimes in Afghanistan? It is his war after all.

Spain could prosecute Pinochet because Chile was powerless to do anything. America is not - we have significant economic and diplomatic weapons at our disposal. There is no comparison.

[ProudDad]

100. That works for me...and Obama's no "liberal"

Obama should be held for the war crimes committed under his watch, just at bush/cheney, Clinton (blood of half a million children on his hands), bush I and especially the murderous ronny raygun should have should have been.

No double standard...

But it ain't gonna happen because there is NO JUSTICE...

[hack89]

102. You just explained why the Democrats will protect Bush. nt

[Deep13]

24. He admits to a Federal crime. nt

[baldguy]

26. Should be titled "Confessions Of An American War Criminal".

[avaistheone1]

28. [phone]

[grahamhgreen]

27. We must prosecute, or all of us become complicit!

[garybeck]

30. Uh, didn't I read somewhere that WE prosecuted the Japanese for waterboarding our soldiers in WW2?

the lunacy of this just has no end.

[KansDem]

31. Yeah, but they were the losers then...

...we are the "winners" now and winners never do war crimes...

[ProudDad]

83. BINGO!!! (n/t)

[provis99]

50. we executed Japanese commanders for waterboarding.

[Ozymanithrax]

52. We have prosectued and convicted American Soldies for waterboarding...

in Vietnam.

We discussed this back when they were doing it, though, and it did not good. Perhaps the new Republican Congress will investigate this heinous warcrime.

[paparush]

33. Justice, reason, and accountability? Yeah, they're all off the table.

[JDPriestly]

34. War crime.

Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.

. . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html

So should Bush and Cheney also serve 15 years for waterboarding?

I think so.

[chervilant]

55. 15 years of hard labor

for each dead or wounded soldier... for each and every dead or wounded Iraqi citizen.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. We knew he wasn't too bright.

:shrug:

[Dinger]

36. Wonder If he'll ever Admit he's a murderer and rapist?

Remember Margie Schoedinger?

[bluestateboomer]

43. Wish I could say I was surprised.

I never would have thought that in a million years......:sarcasm:

[rhett o rick]

45. He knows he will never be prosecuted. He will get pardoned. He is just rubbing our faces in it. nm

[totodeinhere]

68. He won't need to be pardoned. It won't even get that far.

I continue to believe that Obama doesn't want to go after Bush because he is afraid that if he does some future Republican administration will come up with a reason to go after him.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

47. And he still walks the streets

Fuck the Democrats for not arresting him!

[denem]

48. "Damn right" !

Indeed.

[StarburstClock]

49. 1/2 of "Murka" doesn't disapprove either, that's really frightening

It does help explain the criminality that pervades most of our culture, a get ahead at all costs mentality. Worst of all, nothing will be done about it, we're a lawless and conscience-less country 1/2 full of gadget using fools.

[Hydra]

67. 5/6

Many people even here didn't want to admit it or investigate it, and then point to Obama and say we need to "move forward (and close our eyes)"

I was more than a little scared when I realized that.

[katty]

51. King George the entitled-waterboarding and happy about it

where is the war crimes investigation/trial?! Criminal presidents and their minions get a PENSION from 'the people' and happily promoting his 'book'.

[BlueJac]

57. Book him Dano!

Jail the criminal. Oh, we would want to piss anyone off now. I mean we should look forward and play nice!

[Pacifist Patriot]

58. Wouldn't that constitute, oh I don't know, evidence?

[McCamy Taylor]

63. A former president can BRAG about war crimes? Is this a great country or what?

[Crunchy Frog]

66. I bet he whacked off to it too. Him and Dick together. n/t

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guitar man]

73. We either prosecute him

Or we as a nation give up the right to ever condemn another nation and/or its leaders for the use of torture. I can't see how any other nations could possibly take such condemnation seriously if we don't. We would roundly deserve to be laughed off the world stage :(

[crim son]

74. I can't HEAR you! (covers ears) n/t

[ProudDad]

75. I would approve waterboarding for bush and cheney

It would be a lot more retributive justice than a jail cell for them...

[flvegan]

76. Don't blame me, I voted for Kucinich. n/t

[bdamomma]

88. why isn't this a$$ in jail??

such bs having these criminals around and not in prison

[Mosaic]

90. I don't believe the hardheads liberal or conservative

That think it's impossible to prosecute this criminal and the others who started an illegal war. It needs to be done by us or someone else, anything less is not acceptable.

[ShamelessHussy]

92. Unfortunately, it is the victors who write the laws

Same as it ever was :'(

[Gamey]

93. As if The People needed any more reason?

Laughing in our faces.

Take their power away each and every day.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

95. Bush should be waterboarded

With Karl Rove's enema water.

[Javaman]

97. just another way moron* thumbs his nose at us all.

he was probably laughing out loud, when he related that to his ghost writer.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

98. If Bush approved waterboarding

it was because Cheney told him to approve waterboarding.

I doubt if GWB had any thoughts that deep.

:hi:

[The Uncola]

101. So what? What the fuck are you going to do about it?

Hold your breath till you turn blue? Have a hissy fit? Make them say please before they bend you over and have their way with you?

[Enthusiast]

103. There is no greater crime than torture.

Unless it is protecting the torturers.

[BlueStater]

108. So a former "president" admits to war crimes and nobody bats a fucking eyelash.

Welcome to 21st Century America. :puke: