Obama calls India creator, not poacher, of US jobs

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

Searching for help half a world away, President Barack Obama on Saturday embraced India as the next jobs-creating giant for hurting Americans, not a cheap-labor rival that outsources opportunity from the United States.

... Obama directly addressed the belief in the U.S. that India is robbing Americans of jobs. He acknowledged that many Americans only know trade and global commerce as the source of a job shipped overseas.

"There still exists a caricature of India as a land of call centers and back offices that cost American jobs. That's a real perception," Obama said. He noted the real concern in India that American corporate giants, if welcomed, would run mom-and-pop stories out of business and upend Indian culture.

Seeking to dismiss all "old stereotypes," Obama said the relationship between the countries is "creating jobs, growth, and higher living standards in both our countries. And that is the truth."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/11/05/international/i120100D90.DTL&tsp=1

[Duer 157099]

1. Did he provide an example of how the living standard in the US has increased?

Because from everything I've been reading, the opposite is true.

edit: oh wait, I know what he probably meant. All those unemployed people have more free time to spend with their families. That must be what he meant by an increased living standard.

[roguevalley]

105. he's completely hopeless. utterly and completely hopeless. He's

going to appease the shitheads and we're all going to die. how sad for us all. He coulda been a contender.

[Swagman]

113. sadly it seems more and more that he is caving into the most craven

[somone]

130. Nah. He has a very bright future

a very lucrative future on the boards of the corporations he's helping.

[saigon68]

159. Looks more like that every day

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

2. ridiculous. Even our banks exported plain clerical work to India

we need to bring these jobs back. But right now we're not.

[Echotrail]

68. I nominate that remark for The Top 10 Conservative Idiots list

Not the man, just the remark.

Edited to add: not your comment, Obama's.

[emilyg]

83. I second.

[txlibdem]

149. A Third

Oh, wait, I thought you meant both.

[w4rma]

192. Agreed. (nt)

[Echotrail]

69. The Star Tribune exported dozens of ad jobs to India

Something like 36 jobs that supported families in Minnesota.
That's just one tiny example out of many.

I don't understand how eliminating jobs, consumer buying power and tax dollars helps our workers!

[catrose]

123. Dell

has now exported all their technical writing to India. (Many other jobs, too, but that's my field) Dell used to be a mainstay in the local tech writing field. I promise you, the former writers' lives have not been improved.

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. Internationally welcome, domestically tone deaf.

Too close to the election, sir. You know - the election that gave us Speaker Boehner over domestic JOBS?

*sigh*

[Qutzupalotl]

4. They're both now

or will be when there is a bigger market there for our exports. This doesn't help our outsourcing problem, but it is an opportunity for growth in an economy that could use it. Perhaps if their economy diversifies a little, their standard of living will rise and they won't be such a drain on our employment. There's a correction going on here with labor costs bottoming out, but with jobs like manufacturing beginning to return (which is partly in response to higher shipping costs).

I think the days of the Indian call center are numbered because of customer complaints. It's profitable, but horrible PR. There are other sectors of our economy that are not practical to be outsourced. Those are where we need to focus our attention, because cheap labor abroad is too enticing for outsourcing to go away anytime soon. It should, but I don't know how to make it happen.

[JDPriestly]

100. I remember watching C-Span in the Fall of 1985.

I remember it clearly because I had just returned to the U.S. after living overseas for some years, and it was the first time I had watched C-Span ever.

There was a Congressional hearing of some sort about the idea of "free" trade.

One of the Democratic Congressmen argued that if we increased "free" trade and ended our import barriers, we would become a nation of people who just passed hamburgers around to each other for a living.

Well, we are now a nation of people who just pass hamburgers around to each other for a living. Sure, we export weapons and a few other items, but not much.

An incredible number of my friends have trained to so some sort of out-there healing or massage or things like that. I

How are people supposed to make a living if all they can do for money is rub each other's backs and toss hamburgers.

Our economy is a joke.

Another huge mistake by the Obama administration.

He needs to prove his assertions. Where are the jobs that entering into trade deals with India will produce?

We have traded with India for a long time now. Where are all those jobs?

We have had "free" trade since maybe 1985. It has increased steadily. NAFTA was introduced sometime in the 1990s.

And since 1985, our manufacturing sector has been destroyed and our economy has steadily worsened -- to the point that it is rotten to the core.

I drove through Los Angeles today. Everywhere you go, you see large storefronts, industrial sites, properties everywhere that are empty. And I remember seeing so many of these properties teeming with activity ten years ago.

Free trade has not worked.

Why is Obama trying to lie about free trade? What do we get for this? Another base in India for American taxpayers to pay for?

Whose president is Obama anyway?

[SquireJons]

112. Free trade and outsourcing are not the same thing.

Debates about free trade agreements are complex and you probably need a degree in Economics just to understand the issues. But outsourcing jobs, especially professional jobs is plain and simple. When a US incorporated company sends jobs that support domestic operations outside the country, it is simply a way of reducing overhead at the expense of the American economy and American workers. Obama is deliberately blurring the line. See my post labeled "Mr. President, I respectfully disagree." This would seem to me an example of how Obama intends to "spread the wealth around." ... to other peoples and other nations. It's ironic that republicans can't use legitimate arguments against Obama so they have to make up phony ones.

That said, free trade agreements both help and hurt our economy. Manufacturing and exports suffer, while service jobs thrive, and in theory the US should be able to sell those services in foreign markets. It's all part of the 'creative destruction' that the US is known for and I'm not smart enough to determine if that's a good thing or not.

[No Elephants]

167. Outsourcing and offshoring are not the same thing, either.

" Manufacturing and exports suffer, while service jobs thrive, and in theory the US should be able to sell those services in foreign markets. "

Meh. We're offshoring service jobs, too.

[ProudDad]

187. As resources keep running out...

and human activities continue to foul the Earth, Air and Water...

And the web of life, the food chain that supports all life is continuously broken...

And the Earth is warmed for the short-term gain for the few...

The answer to whether it's "a good thing or not" will become apparent...

And then it will be too damn late to do anything about it...

[Joe Bacon]

122. Indian Call Centers are here to stay

Tell that to several of my friends who just lost their jobs here and their company outsourced to India. Thanks to the new Teabagger majority in the house, Outsourcing to India will accelerate. And Obama sees nothing wrong with it. Beyond disgusting.

[valerief]

5. Wait'll his job gets off-shored. Then he'll understand. The only jobs

India creates here is for H1Bs so they can get training and bring it back to India.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

93. except for all of their doctors that we create...they never bring them back

[jtuck004]

101. Yeah, don't you wish your job was constitutionally protected...

'cause I think you have to be born here.

Section 1, Article 2 of the Constitution

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Thus, a "natural" immunity to the H1B virus.

[mix]

6. Obama doesn't know much about history either, if

his comments about FDR last week are any indication, or about the havoc that globalization has wrought on the lives of US workers.

Detached, like the class interests he's embraced.

[hayu_lol]

8. Didn't this president once have a real job?

...at a Baskin/Robbins?

This man gets further and further out of touch with some of our problems.

[laconicsax]

43. You have to wonder sometimes if he was ever in touch with some of our problems. n/t

[No Elephants]

169. Offshoring ice cream scooping is very diffiicult. We may need robots for that.

[countrydad58]

35. Sick

of him & his callousness towards the working class! I again ask the Obama apologists when are you cutting the cord to this president & his wrong anti workers policies? What will it take> cutting SS & medicare,or will you still support him?

[KoKo]

51. That comment about FDR..was a bit OTT...And I am trying to be generous as to where

he comes from as a Democratic President who must have had some reading of History given the caliber of the schools he attended as a child, his mother and the Top Notch College and Grad School for Law he attended. :shrug: Dissing FDR? How Pragmatic can you be before you cross a line?

[andym]

7. It's not India's fault, it's the corporations that decided that outsourcing is good policy.

And they're just following free market rules. It is necessary for the US government to make it in their own best interest not to outsource.

[davidwparker]

20. I don't think anyone is blaming India. It is more like

blaming Obama, Congress, and corporate greed.

I have no problem with Indians or India. Good for them that they are coming out of poverty. But, they need to develop an economy which is not based off of taking our jobs from us.

Having spent the past 4 months writing code which the Indian contractors couldn't pick up, I welcome competing with Indians as long as the playing field is level.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[davidwparker]

27. (sadly) LOL

:toast:

[KoKo]

52. I do think that the Powers that Be are working very hard to:

"Level the Playing field" with us and "Emerging Countries." Salary Wise...I believe it is an objective to let the "Lowering Tide" ..."Lower all Boats." WAGE PARITY across the world. It's good for workers and for keeping most out of poverty.

[ProudDad]

188. The only thing that counts with the corporate masters is...

can davidwparker live on $10,000 per year...

[shanti]

57. what the hell???

didn't he run on a platform of penalizing outsourcers?? god, this makes me :mad:

[valerief]

124. Duh, of course. Indians are people, too. We're all people, not chess pawns, but that's how we're

treated.

[No Elephants]

168. +1

[EFerrari]

9. Maybe Obama is out scouting for support. Most of the rest of the world

is trying to isolate the dollar ahead of the new bank bail out.

New $600B Fed Stimulus Fuels Fears of US Currency War
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/5/new_600b_fed_stimulus_fuels_fears

[davidwparker]

21. does this mean it is time to move money into Euro again?

[EFerrari]

29. You have to ask someone more literate than I am. n/t

[davidinalameda]

10. sorry if I don't care about the standard of living in India

I'm more concerned with the standard of living HERE!

[Lorien]

19. I care about the standard of living for all human beings

but India's problems are just like our own; the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting much wealthier on the backs of the working people. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/antilla-worlds-most-expen_n_779409.html

[avaistheone1]

37. I too care about the standard of living of all human beings.

However, India is taking jobs from working and middle class Americans and giving them to working and middle class Indians.
I do not thing that is the right thing to do for America, and I do not support it all.

[KoKo]

53. I think some feel that our "living wage standards" must be competitive

across the globe. And that will solve our problems.

[avaistheone1]

59. How are we supposed to afford the cost of living in America:

health care, food, clothing, mortgage, rent et cetera on the "living wage standards" that someone is paid in India, or China.

Are the CEOs prepared to do the same? How about our politicians?

[durkermaker]

145. interestingly, those who preach these lowered standards do not participate in them

i wonder why that is

[txlibdem]

151. +100 million!

I, too, wonder why...

[ProudDad]

189. Steady state relocalized economies...that's how... (n/t)

[No Elephants]

170. Indians are simply accepting positions being offered them, just as do

workers here who accept jobs from Toyota.

Direct your anger where it belongs--with lawmakers in D. C. of both, er, I mean, all, parties who simply cannot do enough for lobbyists--who return the favor.

[blue97keet]

11. Sounds like Indians are just as suspicious of our multinational corporations

as Americans are of their H-1B's coming here to grease the skids for more offshoring.

[glinda]

12. It is China alliance or India alliance. I say India.

[kestrel91316]

13. Mr. President, I beg to differ.

[OhioChick]

14. "Obama calls India creator, not poacher, of US jobs"

Yeah, right. :rofl:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[KoKo]

45. He's correct. CNN had a piece this week that Harley-Davidson is assmbling Harley's in India

that are MADE IN AMERICA! So it's sort of like the reverse of China where we "assemble parts manufactured in China, here in America...so it's really American Made! with our OWN WORKERS...the assembly.

So we are providing jobs to Indians who assemble Harley Motorcycles there with our American Made Parts!

It's JOB GROWTH, for sure! And, I read that he wants Wall Mart to go in there in India. Seems the Indian Govt. has some problem with their Business People owning more than one business enterprise because the Indians want to keep their "Mom & Pop" stores variety. But, I hear we are pressuring the Indian Govt. to change that law so that Walmart can come in and be a bigger supplier.

I guess what I don't understand is that WalMart gets most of it's "STUFF" it sells from CHINA..(Made there) and so how does this help American Jobs to have WalMart go into China in a big way. But, one of the big honcho's from WalMart is on this trip with him to increase American Investment from Korea to India and then the Indonesian Markets.

[stuart68]

63. Sorry, you are mistaken

All Harleys used to be assembled in the US. Now the job of assembling those shipped to india has been outsourced. And do not kid yourself by thinking the parts are made in the US, only a portion are made here.

This is about cost reduction and parking profit outside the US. My guess is this is not actually Harley, but a subsidiary. In addition, Harley broke the unions in Milwaukee with concessions.

Nicely done Mr. President.

[OlympicBrian]

103. Good point, a net loss of US jobs

If the assembling used to be done in the US.

I would guess a lot of the Harley parts are made in China or other Asian country.

Bottom line is...there are some of these anecdotal stories but the jobs just aren't here.

AND they broke the unions in the process?

[stuart68]

143. Yes, big concessions to keep plants in Milwaukee

[scentopine]

75. Great to hear from you! -nt

[OhioChick]

78. Hey there!

Nice to see you're still here sticking up for U.S. workers! :thumbsup:

:hi:

[katandmoon]

15. I have to give Obama credit.

He actually said that with a straight face.

And the check is in the mail, President Obama.

[Skittles]

193. he says it with a straight face because he is fucking CLUELESS regarding offshoring

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING CLUELESS

[jody]

16. Obama needs to stick to something he understands and that's not economics. n/t

[avaistheone1]

39. Obama's understanding of economics doesn't sound much better than John McCains

Unfortunately.

[treestar]

121. It's probably better than most of DUers'

I think people think there can only be a certain number of jobs in the US and that new ones are never created. That for every job in another country, there is one less here. That's zero understanding of economics.

[No Elephants]

171. LOL. Euthanasia for straw persons!

[ramapo]

17. It was Hillary too

She was a big India support during her campaign. I really do not get it. I have been in IT for 30 years and have watched countless people lose their jobs to India and China.

[davidwparker]

18. Did he not learn anything from Tuesday's elections?

Obama, just because you say it, does not make it true.

In place trade policies and tax policies which you don't have the backbone to tackle even while having supermajorities are the cause of the economic problems in this country.

People would be willing to continue to pay the mortgage on their underwater houses if they had jobs with which to do it.

[BillH76]

32. The 'lesson' he learned was to move to the right.

This is what Democrats do when they lose to Republicans. Oddly, Republicans don't move to the left when they lose to Democrats. They move farther to the right. Result: everything keeps moving to the right.

[countrydad58]

38. Exactly!

Put their version of Republicanism to eeffect.

[Bluebear]

111. No.

[Newsjock]

22. Wow, a mass unrec

I don't normally comment on such things, but it was shocking to watch the unrec squad show up in force within the space of just a few minutes.

Whether Mr. Obama is right or wrong on this point doesn't matter one iota ... the optics of what he said are infuriating to many/most Americans right now, and he really should know better than to rub salt in our wounds. One year ago this week, many of my friends and co-workers became unemployed (and, for some, unemployable thanks to age, etc.) when their jobs were quite literally shipped away to Bangalore.

I'd call this administration remarkably tone-deaf, but that would involve assuming that Mr. Obama does not know what he is doing. He is a very smart man, and I am confident that he knows exactly what he is doing ... and that depresses and angers me even more than if he were clueless.

[Name removed]

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[No Elephants]

172. If he knew exactly what he's doing, midterm election results would have looked very different.

[daleo]

23. Half of my university's IT jobs were just "created" in India

And "destroyed" here.

[NCarolinawoman]

28. Most of the medicine I take is now made in India.

I didn't realize this until my pharmacist showed me how you can lift the label on the pill container and see what company made it.

That's why I laughed when there was a rush to stifle Dorgan's plan to have people import drugs from Canada. All that fake outcry that drugs from Canada might be unsafe. LOL As I remember the FDA had to "look into it" (that was the excuse) So what ever happened to them looking into it?

[scentopine]

73. Not only that - x-rays, diagnostic tests as well...

they can inflate prices 20% year over year here in us, and cut costs by sending x-rays (electronically) and med samples (overnight) to india where loosely regulated technicians work for $5/hr. CEOs pocket the difference.

Isn't health care reform great?

[Hulk]

30. Why do you need to insult them by referring to them as "poachers"???

Folks...it's not THEIR fault that the greedy corporate carpet baggers decided to get rich and fart on the American worker and the American "dream". They didn't have to entice us. We just gave the reins to the rich fat cats, and they are so greedy and couldn't care less about the middle class worker or this country...so they took their jobs to wherever they could make an extra dime for their silver spoons spawn.

It's not like India was the devil on this one. They simply are on the receivership end of gaining jobs, while we sit idly by and let the corporations and the "small businessman" take his jobs overseas for $1.05 an hour...and flip off the nation of morons for biting themselves in the ass, over and over and over again.

We truly are a nation of morons. Too much proof to make my point.

[Alameda]

118. actually, we have been supporting it for a long time

If we were not enthusiastic consumers of the products, would it happen? I'm in the garment industry, my work was outsourced a looooong time ago. I have to laugh when I see people complaining while wearing garments made in who knows what cheap labor country.

[ipaint]

31. That's exactly what clinton said about Mexico when he was pushing NAFTA through.

Free trade is not and never has been about lifting the standard of living for workers. It was a lie when Clinton claimed it and it's a lie now that Obama is regurgitating neo-lib nonsense.

[newspeak]

157. I remember Clinton going on TV

and informing the american public how great NAFTA-GATT was going to be--that americans were going to be the "New service sector." The treaty was Poppy's and a repuke wet dream, however, it seems the DLC and repukes are on the same page. How's that service sector working for you?

[durkermaker]

163. service sector 'jobs of the future' are 'a thing of the past', just 12 years later

and now the key is 'innovation'

get out there and innovate!

(we dont know what to train for or what to innovate, but it's still the answer)

[No Elephants]

175. Edison created a lot of jobs--most of which would have been offshored today.

But, Edison would have been even richer than he was.

[Gormy Cuss]

33. Interesting difference in reports: one AP writer states 54,000 jobs created; another, 'supported'

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wirestory?id=12068854&page=2

For the most part, the deals were already pending, but the White House contends Obama's visit to India helped finalize them. Officials said the deals would support 53,670 U.S. jobs, but it was not clear how many, if any, new jobs would be created as a result.

So, who got it right? I'm voting for this reporter because of the rest of the detail in her report.

[Newsjock]

34. That's a very important point

There's another story here running up the rec list right now because it claims that GOOOOOOOBAMA has just created 50,000 new American jobs today. I call bullshit, served with a side of curry.

[chill_wind]

114. McClatchy wrote about the expected 30 000 to 40,000 jobs in October

from the Boeing deals.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/10/28/102805/nothings-left-to-chance-when-a.html

Images will be critical, Timothy Roemer, the ambassador to India, told a White House travel-planning team in September — to help sell Obama and the United States to India. Also to sell Obama to Americans, particularly to show Americans that he's working on creating U.S. jobs even while abroad.

"We've been putting a lot of thought into both the substance and the communications," Roemer said. "Some kind of powerful picture," he said. "What are the iconic pictures?"

(snip)

Obama will meet with Indian students and with business executives. He's also expected to announce a sale of C-17 cargo jets to India that could mean 35,000-40,000 jobs in the U.S.

"We are very aware this trip is taking place right after a mid-term election . . . a tumultuous election," Roemer said. It is, he added, "paramount" for Obama to send a message back home that his trip will help produce jobs.

[countrydad58]

125. Message sent

Tone deaf callous MFers!

[Gormy Cuss]

126. Again though, are these new jobs, or mostly avoiding layoffs?

Notice that even McClatchy's writer used tentative language: could mean 35,000...jobs

Saving jobs for current workers is really good news, but that shouldn't be presented in a way that even suggests that they are new jobs available to those who are unemployed. That's why it's important to me at least to understand which is the case -- saving jobs, or adding them.

[chill_wind]

128. I have the same questions.

:shrug:

[Odin2005]

36. Tone-Deafness FAIL!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[azygous]

41. It seems our president

has been brain-washed. By the corporate power elite.

[newspeak]

162. well, he kept *'s two key men

Bernanke and Paulsen. Both, apparently are previously affiliated with Goldman Sachs.

[KoKo]

42. As Obama see's it...the Future lies in Emerging Markets for our Trade!

What I don't understand is that WHAT DO WE GIVE THEM for TRADE? We only make Bombs and Defense. We have some Auto Manufacturing but "emerging markets" can get cheaper from Korea or China. We do grow wheat and have cattle and hogs, plus soybeans.

Can someone give me the trade we can do with India? I heard they want to trade us Mango's.

:shrug: If anyone knows, pleas let me know. I do know that I have to deal with India every time I have a tech problem with computer or my ISP, problems. But, we do have TWO INDIAN AMERICAN In our US STATE GOVERNORSHIPS! And that's a very good thing...since they are both in the South. Jindal and our new Nikki Haley in South Carolina!

But, what are we trading with them ...and is it productive?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

44. Yeah, well...he's got a job for at least the next two years.

Maybe he'll have a different job after that.

If he really said this stuff, and believes it, I don't even want to comment on it.

[KoKo]

47. One does wonder if maybe the MSRW MEDIA is misinterpreting what he says...?

WTF!

[No Elephants]

173. Has he or anyone in his administration denied it?

[scentopine]

67. LOL! There's a corner office at Goldman or BP waiting with his name on it -nt

[No Elephants]

174. If? Please see Reply #173.

[onehandle]

46. lol

not really lol

[Name removed]

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[KoKo]

56. From financial sites I read...probably closer to 2020 for stuff to kick in...

BUT...it's good our Health Care will be in Full Force for All Americans by 2014...so we beat the Kick In for Emerging Markets Parity with us by a few years! It's a good THING!

[scentopine]

60. With all due respect that is centrist vodoo economics

no one will be able to afford health care nor a college education by then. When it comes to technology business and engineering, I am in the middle of it every day. There is no relief coming.

Every CEO in this country has army of MBAs who are working around the clock doing one thing - cutting labor costs. The centrists have created a very real lost generation. Kids see the MBAs pulling down 6 figures after spending every weekend at a beer bash, while the poor fucker who works his ass off in physics and engineering is out sourced to India.

Please- "Emerging Markets Parity" is ridiculous MBA speak. You have no idea how foolish this business speak sounds in the face of the reality of raising kids with wages cut, benefits near zero, and a workplace full of frightened people worried about losing their jobs on a daily basis.

This was the same high minded centrist/neo-lib abstraction that told us "Obama's centrists policies will kick in, the economy will rebound and the mid-terms will be a cake walk".

Emerging Market Parity. EMP. Fucking MBA perfect. How about we send all the worthless MBA (and centrist) hacks to India and let them outsource India back to USA?

- on edit -
Argh - I edited out part that was unfairly critical. I'm working yet another weekend on a 5 day salary. An emerging trend is for companies to staff and head their HR departments with H1Bs from India. Apologies. Obama's capitulation and doubling down on bi-partisanship is dead wrong and will do us in for good.

Health care reform does ZERO to control costs. It will create more problems than it solves. It is a sorry nation that concedes our children don't have a chance in hell to make it on their own, so you can cover them on your employee plan until their 26. Oh - no employee plan? Tough shit.

$1000 for a dental crown. 2.5 hours total time. In 1989 it would have been $250.

Adjusted for inflation, it should have been around $450. Meanwhile, my salary in real dollars has gone down in same interval.

$400 for our regular doctor (not ER visit) and 20 minutes to glue a cut shut on my daughters chin.

I will fight against the centrists anyway I can.

Thanks for your reply.

[KoKo]

76. I agree with everything you said and more... It's really hard to watch all this...

knowing that until we get to the "parity" that the Globalists want...how much we and our kids will suffer. :-(

[newspeak]

158. now what kind of parity is that

you know, that sounds like my very repug friend. Saying the same old BS. Maybe we can all be third worlders while CEO's and the rich scoop up more and more moolah on the back of labor. Because what I see is not parity but slave labor and a greater divide between the very wealthy and the poor. Looking more like corporate feudalism and a massive deregulation, where "too big to fail" global corporations rule the world, above any government.

[Skittles]

119. worthy of its own thread

[Name removed]

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[lib2DaBone]

50. 13,000 Corporations use the same mailbox in the Caymans as their headquarters...

..they pay not one penny in taxes.. they build no factories.. they employ no Americans.. yet they are allowed to freely ship their shoddy merchandise into the U.S.

One can only ask , "WHY?"

[scentopine]

55. You are right - it is shoddy but it will change

in high tech I deal with it every fucking day. However, corporations are outspending local school boards training India. THey look at India as an unregulated low wage free market free-for-all. Unburdened by liberals demands for a fair wage and decent working conditions, centrists and republicans head to unregulated territories in India.

Wall Street CEOs are stuffing their trousers full of billions of dollars from made by the breaking backs of poor people.

Centrists are chasing after Wall Street like puppy dogs hoping for a treat.

[southmost]

88. and they're free to spend what it takes

to get their stooges elected

[No Elephants]

178. Our elected officials. They're why. And, we keep re-electing them, so maybe we're why as well.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[stuart68]

64. Maybe he is the same person and you were just duped...

[Old Time Pagan]

71. You may be correct but

if I had wanted stupid I could have voted for McSame and Caribou Barbie and saved myself time and money.

I read his book and through it learned about his background, history and family. Really hard to believe that the man who lived that life could turn around and do what he's doing to the majority of citizens in this country.

As I said, disappointed, very disappointed.

[AzDar]

61. Good. Grief.

:puke:

[bertman]

62. Anyone who's surprised by this hasn't been paying attention for the last two years.

It's been one WTF moment after the next when President Obama makes a speech.

Oh yeah, and don't forget that BP cleaned up all the oil in the Gulf and there's no indication of long-term damage.

[scentopine]

66. What? Oil spill? Where? When? Has anyone alerted the White House?

[scentopine]

80. Now rumors about a war! What war? Where? When? Oil spill? War? Who would spread these damn lies?

[Skittles]

120. nor did they pay attention when he was runing

[stuart68]

65. What a load of crap.

Harley employees make less, assembly jobs go to India, and profits are parked off shore.

That really is good for both of us. Must be, because the President said so....

[scentopine]

70. Dear OFA and DLC - just ignore all the crazy liberal outrage. You're golden 2012. Or not. -nt

[Jefferson23]

72. All the wrong kind of wow. n/t

[pampango]

74. Doesn't he know that all our problems are caused by foreigners? India, China, Mexico - the list

goes on and on. Rather than going after our own elite with progressive taxation, a strengthened safety net, and stronger unions, it's easier to blame foreigners for our problems.

Obama seems to be "European" in believing that trade and openness are progressive.

[No Elephants]

179. European? Or U.S. conservative?

[Name removed]

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[OlympicBrian]

90. Deleted

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[KamaAina]

81. Well, he's half right

:eyes:

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Divine Discontent]

87. Sadly, that's very possible if he's going to say things like that right after the election where we

saw so many GOP thugs get into office.

Sad.. just sad.

There is surely someone in the admin from the WH that monitors the web, and they better catch on that the web is going on FIRE over his comments. His comment does seem out of touch... It just gets weirder and weirder.

[Kall]

84. It's not perception, it's reality.

And unfortunately, Mr. Obama, India can't vote for US President.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

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[LibDemAlways]

86. What I find especially infuriating about this is that the

Repukes love to ship jobs off to India and China, but Repuke politicians sure as hell know better than to broach the subject - other than to crow about the need to create more jobs here at home.

Obama is either horribly, horribly tone deaf or he's taking advice from some stealth Repukes determined to bring him down.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

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[awoke_in_2003]

89. poacher. nt

[OlympicBrian]

91. During his trip, did he cut more offshoring deals?

IBM has hired around 75,000 Indian workers since 1992. The Indian IBM page also says "IBM stopped giving its headcount numbers." I guess they want to hide their offshoring activities.

http://dqindia.ciol.com/content/dqtop20_10/CompanyRanking/2010/110072309.asp

Those 75,000 jobs--or a good fraction of them--could be in the US.

How can the President make blanket statements without any supporting data? There have been no reliable, independent, macro-economic studies on offshoring, period.

I look left, right, up, down...and I don't see the new jobs.

[JCMach1]

99. That's just IBM proper, what about the subcontractors...?

that's how it is usually done these days... also gives you deniability when something gets frakked up

[Haole Girl]

92. WTF

:wtf:


edit: TMI

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

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[Boudica the Lyoness]

94. What a stupid thing to say

This country is going to shit.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

95. There probably is a two way street these days in how wealthy tey are becoming.

[No Elephants]

180. Are you saying that Indians in India are now buying goods made in the U.S.?

Any idea which goods manufactured in the U.S. they happen to be buying, and in which quantities?

BTW: one word: Net (as in "net loss of U.S. jobs for U.S. workers")

No one is saying not a single job has been created in the U.S., but this is a very big country with about 310 million people (and growing).

The real and relevant issue is not whether some jobs have been created here. The real and relevant issues are: (1) Has there been a huge net loss, while there could have been gain; and (2) when, if ever, is break even or net gain likely?

[Beartracks]

96. So, how many jobs are LOST to get a few CREATED?

Really, let me think this through...

Sumbig Corporation ships a bunch of manufacturing jobs to India -- so, say 2,000 jobs are lost in America. The Indians manufacture the products that are then sold back here in America (presumably to people that still have jobs? But I digress...). The Indians, who are paid far less than the Americans they replaced, can produce MORE products for the same amount of money, so Sumbig Corporation can open a couple more stores in America, and hire a handful -- say, 200 -- cheap non-union sales staff, and some managers. LOOK: Job Creation!

-------------------------------

[LiberalFighter]

97. How are jobs going to be created by India here in the USA?

What jobs does he think will be created here in the USA because of India?

[Lasher]

107. H-1B and L-1 jobs.

Lots of those.

[Larkspur]

104. My job was given to a contractor from India in 2008, but my company

brought him over to the US because the manager didn't want to deal with the 11 hour difference in time.

And my job is in IT, not call center.

I guess I'll be calling the White House to lodge a complaint. I'll also lodge one with my US Rep and new US Senator.

[Amonester]

109. Your complaints will be ignored.

Unless you can afford to send them a REAL BIG CHECK attached to them.

But you can send them anyway if it makes you feel good.

[No Elephants]

181. Biggest donation an individual can legally make to one candidate is chickenfeed (relatively).

[No Elephants]

176. I contacted my Democratic President, Democratic Rep (member, House Progressive Caucus) and my

Democratic Senators at least once a week about single payer or at least a public option, as did many, many other Democrats. We had demonstrations, too. Medical professionals even marched across the U.S. to D.C. At one point, 70% of Americans polled wanted a public option.


As you know, we were very effective.


Yep, your elected officials really care how voters feel about an issue.

[chill_wind]

106. Nice for Boeing. But some perspective: 300,000 jobs needed a month to put a real dent in

the unemployment rate here.


"By the end of the first of his three days in India, he was promoting $10 billion in trade deals -- completed in time for his visit -- that the White House says will create about 54,000 jobs at home.

That's a modest gain compared with the extent of the enduring jobless crisis in the United States. Economists say it would require on the level of 300,000 new jobs a month to put a real dent in an unemployment rate stuck near 10 percent."

http://www.king5.com/news/Obama-calls-India-creator-not-poacher-of-US-jobs-106823018.html

And btw, while it's true that jobs are jobs, the lions share of the quoted 54,000 + jobs is to Boeing-- around 22,000 jobs for the C-17 deal and another 12,000 for the commercial passenger craft, I've read. Divided over how many years, or how many are fully US jobs (how much outsourcing done by Boeing) it's not clear.

Most of the deals had been in the works for months.

http://o.seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013366331_obama07.html

[LibDemAlways]

131. This sounds like more Boeing job creation than it probably is. The

company has been steadily laying off many thousands and closing entire business units. Chances are these new orders means that some laid off people may be recalled, which is good for them, but does not necessarily mean a huge uptick in new hiring.

[SquireJons]

108. Mr. President, I respectfully disagree.

Ok, first I want to say that I think I understand what he is trying to say. That is that global trade can create jobs back here in the United States, and that is undoubtedly true. When other nations open their markets in the same manner that US markets are open, then it creates opportunities for US companies to expand business, and therefore employment.

But open markets is a different issue than outsourcing. Sending jobs that support domestic customers of US businesses in no way creates jobs here in the United States. Obama deliberately used call centers as an example because those positions are the ones that the majority of Americans are familiar with. In addition, these positions are a bit like picking crops, positions that most Americans don't want anyways because you can not support even independent living on those wages. Unfortunately call centers are just the tip of the iceberg. The truth is, many high paying, professional jobs are being outsourced as well.

I work in IT and that is an industry that has been decimated by outsourcing and H1B visa's. Companies use these as leverage to depress professional wages, increase company profits and return on investment for the investment class. These professional jobs do not support US companies operations over seas. They support operations inside of the US at the expense of the American economy. My current job does exactly that. My job is to interact with offshore technical teams in support of a fortune 100 infrastructure. All accounts originate from inside the US, but the technical support teams reside outside the US.

While India gets the majority of criticism, other countries such as Mexico, Argentina, Malaysia, and The Philippines are big players in the outsourcing game. Every large company I have worked for over the last 10 years has adopted this model. And while it's true that some jobs are coming back due to problems that outsourcing creates, the majority of these jobs are not coming home, and companies are increasing the volume of outsourcing and many additional professions are adopting that model. A great example of that is the large legal firms which are shipping out their junior lawyer positions.

[JDPriestly]

142. Actually, I once worked as a service rep in a call job for a very

large American corporation. That was in the early 1970s. It paid almost as much as teaching and did not require nearly the investment in education.

I disagree that call center jobs are necessarily that low-paid or that Americans do not want those jobs. To the contrary, if paid a living, decent wage, Americans love those jobs.

The problem is that the companies outsource the work, get really low-cost labor to do the jobs but do not pass the gain from the low-cost employment on to Americans neither to us as customers nor to our government.

I know that lots of Americans would love to do those jobs. Would they demand higher wages than their Indian counterparts? Yes. But don't forget the American dollar does not go as far in this country as the Indian rupees go over there.

And life here is necessarily more expensive. For one thing, more of the housing in our country requires heating in order to be habitable in the winter. There are a lot of infrastructure problems that cause life in the U.S. to be more expensive than in some other countries. Some of the problems would be ameliorated if Americans simply adjusted to a lower standard of living. But that is not true in all respects.

I spoke to someone from India recently who commented that refrigeration is an unnecessary thing. I pointed out that, in the midwestern and northern states, people would have very little to eat in the winter if they could not refrigerate their food they harvest in the fall. That is something that is apparently not such a big problem in much of India.

So life here is more complicated and more expensive due in part to our climate.

[reggie the dog]

110. he is not delusional

this is orchestrated pr bullshit, he knows damn well that it is a country to which us companies outsource jobs

[liberation]

115. For a guy whose main asset is rhetorical skills, Mr. Obama seems really tone deaf sometimes...

:-(

Maybe we should outsource our political reps over to India, I am sure we can get a bunch of people over there to write the same useless legislation and represent people so awfully for a fraction of what our current American-based reps charge us for the privilege. Let's see how our politicians like them apples then...

[slackmaster]

116. WWCJTKOTUSSED?

[Catherina]

117. Shameless. Obama is beginning to make Clinton look like FDR.

The President's post-mortem press conference underscores why he lost, and why progressives should no longer invest hope in him.

While he accepted responsibility for the defeat, and while he acknowledged that people were "frustrated" and wanted "their jobs to come back faster," he failed to even mention the massive housing crisis that he has so ineptly handled.

On top of that, he adopted the messaging of the Republicans. He talked about the need to reduce our deficit so we don't "leave our children a legacy of debt" and so we're not "racking up the credit card for the next generation."

Those lines could have come straight out of the mouth of Rand Paul!

And like Rand Paul, he saluted business and the free market: "The reason we've got an unparalleled standard of living in the history of the world is because we've got a free market that is dynamic and entrepreneurial and that free market has to be nurtured and cultivated."

Then he pitied big business.

"You just had a successive set of issues in which I think business took the message that, well, gosh, it seems like we may be always painted as the bad guy," he said. "And so I've got to take responsibility in terms of making sure that I make clear to the business community as well as to the country that the most important thing we can do is to boost and encourage our business sector."

Really??? That's "the most important thing" he has to do? Wow!

http://progressive.org/wx110410.html

Rest in peace America.

[ProudDad]

190. Clinton look like FDR???

Clinton accelerated this slide by doing shit that ray-gun and bush I would NEVER have been allowed to do...

He was the best republican corporatist that money could buy -- until this new guy...

[Owl]

127. Poacher.

[somone]

129. Yeah... All hail India, the great creator of U.S. jobs

the same way we hail China, the other great creator of U.S. jobs

[durkermaker]

132. This is great news, it means the last decade didn't happen to me

but then maybe I just became an 'un-person'

from the newspeak dictionary

unperson - Person that has been erased from existence by the government for breaking the law in some way. A unperson is completely erased from history. All records of their existence is removed from record, and all party members are expected to removed them from memory. To mention their name is considered thoughtcrime. This eliminates any possibility of martyrdom.

Unpersons don't lose jobs to India, they just fade away

[durkermaker]

133. Anyone who lost a job to India is an 'unperson' in Obama's eyes, so in that context he's right

when he says nobody lost a job to India

because that's who you are to him - 'nobody'

you lost your job to india, but you're nobody, therefore "nobody lost a job to India" is true

[durkermaker]

134. We risked nuclear war just 2 short decades ago, to 'protect our way of life'

i honestly dont know if we had the right to do that or not, but we absolutely had no right to do it for nothing

and now we just hand it over to the other side anyway

that's the real evil in all of this, that we risked a 10,000 scar on humanity for nothing, we were handing it all over anyway

[durkermaker]

135. If you've been hurt by outsourcing/ H-1b, now you know exactly where you stand nt

[Skittles]

177. pretty much with everyone else

[durkermaker]

136. Clinton: 'I feel your pain' Obama: 'You have no pain, it's your imagination'

and you are just experiencing a benefit, incorrectly

[somone]

137. LOL

[closeupready]

154. LOL - you nailed it. Just like the Health Care Mandate is no tax; it's ...

well I can't remember what he called it, but he did state it's not a tax, even though it is.

[durkermaker]

156. my policy premium went up 22 percent within days of the bill's passing

and i knew an insurance executive who couldnt have cared less about the bill - you have to wonder why. any real benefit to the public would have been an increase in power of the public over insurance companies

[U4ikLefty]

138. Gotta love that 3-D chess.

It MAY look like he's selling the working class out, but it's REALLY a brilliant move us regular working-class folk just ain't gettin' yet.

Thank God for Obama!!!

[alarimer]

139. Blame your corporate buddies for outsourcing, Obama.

You know, those assholes who are the trip with you. I notice you don't have anyone on the trip who has lost their job due outsourcing.

[durkermaker]

140. Obama before election: 'Quit whining!' After election: "India is giving you jobs, not taking them'

with friends like this, do we really need enemies?

[sakabatou]

141. *facepalm*

[durkermaker]

144. US citizen tech workers are America's political pariah

100 percent sold out by media and politicians

countless lives ruined by endless barefaced lies

you can destroy any group of people with a campaign like this

it's destroyed my faith in just about everything

[otohara]

146. Sorry Mr. President, It's A Big Effing Deal

watching the constant stream of middle class jobs being shipped to India,

China has all our manufacturing jobs and soon the majority of IT/Tech jobs will be gone too!

[durkermaker]

147. It will be more than just tech jobs, Former Fed Res Board member Alan Blinder says 30-40 million

jobs are offshorable with the H-1b/outsourcing model

it was never about 'tech' it was a labor model, and tech workers were just the ginea pig

google alan blinder outsourcing and read anything you like

[Raine]

148. Must be nice to be in denial like that.

:eyes:

[Yeahyeah]

150. Big India promotion going on.The New Screw is just beginning.Take it hard you American bitches!

[durkermaker]

152. he just told the country he does not know or will not admit, the first thing about the 'jobs'

situation

because i doubt there is a single ordinary working us citizen who believes this

and this is after months of lecturing us (before the election) that frustration with him over jobs is 'whining' and 'impatience'

then after the election, he drops this bomb on the middle class, that their number one fear and frustration is actually 'good' for them - his disrespect and contempt for middle class working people is unreal and not topped by any republican

if he thinks that all of this has been good for American workers, you can only imagine what he's planning for us over there

[fascisthunter]

153. did Obama get some Free-Market Brainwashing Courses

before he enetered the White House. When you do the same thing and get the same results, and they are bad results, you have to be crazy to continue.

[durkermaker]

155. NOBODY becomes a major presidential candidate unless they drink that kool-aid

or more accurately, promise to administer that kool-aid to the american worker

i love this quote in the article

"Seeking to dismiss all "old stereotypes," Obama said the relationship between the countries is "creating jobs, growth, and higher living standards in both our countries. And that is the truth."

ever notice anything about when someone says "and that is the truth?"

[fascisthunter]

160. yeah... that that "truth" is a lie

[ProudDad]

191. Free-Market Brainwashing Courses

are what Harvard Law School are all about...

He's a highly trained protector of the status quo...

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumberjack_jeff]

183. The US employs fewer computer engineers today than in 1975. n/t

[KillCapitalism]

164. Let's see, how many jobs has India created on it's own...

in the past 30 years?

I'd really be willing to say less than 10 million.

All the others came from Japan, US, UK, Germany, etc.

[Vidar]

165. For all his eloquence, he really can be a clueless jackass.

[Taverner]

166. He is partially right

Some jobs have come out of India...but it's not a like/like comparison

[xchrom]

182. sigh. this india trip -- at this time -- is almost beyond belief to me. nt

[Doctor_J]

184. You to can be SLumdog Millionaire!

The Indian Dream. Maybe that's what he means

[sarcasmo]

185. Already looking for his new job in 2012. One and done.

[ProudDad]

186. Still shilling for the corporate states of america, eh, Barack...? (n/t)