'Don't ask' should stay for now, new Marine commandant says

[Newsjock]

Source: Los Angeles Times

With U.S. troops — including 20,000 Marines — locked in a "tough fight" in Afghanistan, now is not the time to lift the "don't ask, don't tell" ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military, the new commandant of the Marine Corps said Saturday.

Gen. James Amos told reporters in San Diego that he was concerned about a possible loss of unit cohesion and combat readiness if the ban is overturned.

"There's risk involved," Amos said. "I'm trying to determine how to measure that risk. This is not a social thing. This is combat effectiveness."

... In August, during his last visit with troops in Afghanistan, Conway repeatedly asked gatherings of enlisted Marines throughout Helmand province whether they thought unit cohesion would be harmed if openly gay people could serve. Almost unanimously, the young Marines indicated they felt it would.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dont-ask-20101107,0,5986584.story

[jaxx]

1. Gates says get rid of it.

The commandant takes orders.

[mzteris]

2. bullshit. n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[USArmyParatrooper]

4. That's a pretty insulting portrayal of gay Marines.

Just saying...

[napi21]

5. I honestly think this is a "Marine Thing". All my life all I've ever

heard was the Marines promoting themselves as REALLY MACHO, Roughnecks, REAL MEN, etc. They will do what they're told, but they will be the LAST branch of the Service to accept that even THEY could have a gay ember in their midst.

[defendandprotect]

6. Medieval thinking being perpetuated by MIC and two-party system....!!!

[uppityperson]

7. If you finally KNOW who's checking out your butt rather than worrying EVERYONE is, this is bad?

:sarcasm:

Bullshit to him. It would change little and "combat effectiveness" wouldn't worsen.

""We're talking about our young men — laying out, sleeping alongside of one another and sharing death, fear and loss of brothers," he said." And being honest with each other would....destroy any cohesion whereas lying helps?

Bullshit.

[SoapBox]

8. ...old guy...old fashioned...old way of thinking.

...he says that we are "locked in a tough battle" in Afghanistan.

Hell, we are ALWAYS going to be in some tough battle some where.

Get over it.

Time for this guy to retire.

[riderinthestorm]

9. No matter what the survey results say in December, THIS will be the reason it isn't repealed

If even 10% of our current service members say they don't want it repealed, "loss of unit cohesion and combat readiness who are in the midst of 2 tough wars' will be" will be the reason why it's killed. The Rethugs will filibuster it, guaranteed with this asshat general providing them good cover too.

DADT isn't going to be repealed for a long time now imho. This Supremes aren't any kind of backup either. Obama badly miscalculated this. Shameful.

[urgk]

10. Did I just dream that the Greeks had homosexuality all over their artworks, AND kicked the crap...

...out of that part of the planet?

What in the hell does being gay have to do with combat effectiveness?

[Politicub]

11. Bigots are afraid of ending the ban because they know it will change hearts and minds

It always has when LGBT equality has been institutionalized. I can't think of a counter example. In Mass and Vermont, the sky didn't fall. And it hasn't anywhere else. People learn that GLBT people are just like everyone else in that their trying to eek out their own corner of happiness in a crazy world.

Equality is a powerful force, and the right knows this. But bigots always lose in the end. It may take a long time, but it will happen.

[AlbertCat]

24. But bigots always lose in the end.

They do?????

[Politicub]

26. They always lose the war. The struggle for equality can last generations.

The right does win battles, but that's about it.

My words to live by:

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice"
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi

[Iggo]

12. Don't give a fuck what new marine commander says.

If he can't support, defend, and protect the constitution, find someone who can.

General, they're already there. Deal with it.

[rasputin1952]

13. Is this general nuts? Asking enlisted personnel, a general...

any general is going to be told what they want to hear. There are ways to do studies and deal with situations like this, having a general ask some Lance Corporal in the USMC what he thinks is insane...no E-3 is going to tell the general anything but what he wants to hear. The power of those stars is immense, sitting down in battalion/company settings and asking enlisted members what they think is about as smart as having a brick/stick of wood conversation.

For the record, I have served with gays, they fight, they do their duty and they are no different than anyone else. How many gays/lesbians has he sent into harms way and have them come back in body bags or ripped to shreds? This guy is full of shit.

[keopeli]

16. +1 He knows exactly what he's doing: builing a firewall of resentment and protest in his troops

[rasputin1952]

29. One of the few experiences I had w/a general was the 4th ID's

Asst Division Commander. This Brigadier, (one star), was in a jeep in a tiny town where we had been to p/u some provisions. We had lost the company and were stuck behind a snowbank about a km away. We gathered what we had in Marks and dollars and a few of us went into town to get something to eat. We wiped out the store of brotchen's and ham, cheese etc, and were heading back tot the track when this BG drove up. Being the ranking NCO, he asked me how things were going, I replied that we were out of fuel, food and were damn near freezing w/o knowing where the company was as our radio was a piece of crap. He got out a map, we got the grid together and by the time we were back to the track, a POL truck was refueling us, and w/in 1/2 an hour we had some really good hot chow. Being honest and up front, plus having a good general makes a world of difference. He didn't care about anything but us...I respect that. About an hour after the chow arrived, a track showed up w/the 1SGT to take us over to where the company had moved w/o informing anyone. Turned out our radio was fine, the CO was on the wrong freq.

The way this guy is coming off, it sounds like he was just using his rank to hear what he wanted to hear...he wasn't there to help, he was there to "instruct".

[pasto76]

14. maybe if the current gay marines in combat right now knew they were respected

they might fight harder!

[keopeli]

15. When DADT is gone, it will be revealed that the branch with the highest % of gays is the USMC.

I personally have known, and many times loved, gay marines. Young and old, they are everywhere. They all have a closet they stay in for their job. They love their jobs.

This General is a bigot and perhaps a fundamentalist Christian. He think that, when DADT is gone, the Marines will become known for being weak and effeminate. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Leadership is critical. He is sabotaging the repeal effort. Leaders must stand up for and defend their troops.

Obama needs to lay down the line here with the Military or the christian right will walk away with all the marbles.

peace

[Odin2005]

20. In many Ancient Greek cities the elite military unit was for gays only.

[handmade34]

17. Gen. James Amos knows

troops do what they are told.... Gen. Amos, order your troops to accept it. Done! My husband was a U.S. Marine, I know Marines. This is absurd!

[Odin2005]

18. The millitary is infected with Christo-Fascist Dominionism.

The same Evil Crap behind the "Kill the Gays" BS in Uganda.

[madrchsod]

19. no gay marines?

stick your head in the sand jamie.....

[davidinalameda]

21. why is the commander in chief

allowing this bozo to run his mouth?

Why doesn't Obama shut him up

[Owl]

22. Amos = Turd

[AlbertCat]

23. possible loss of unit cohesion and combat readiness

Yawn....


Will "Unit cohesion" make us lose this war more slowly? or more quickly?


Worried bout "unit cohesion"? Then kick out the homophobes. Who wants people so insecure in themselves and their own sexuality serving next to dedicated troops who have their mission in mind?

[Moosepoop]

25. What evidence does he have that he questioned all those Marines

or that their opinions (as he stated them) were "nearly unanimous"? He told this to the press, but what proof is there that he actually posed this question to all these gatherings of Marines in Afghanistan last August, and/or what their responses were?

Were there reporters with him in Afghanistan at the time, who made records of the events as they occurred? Is there audio or video evidence of any of this? Or do we just have the new commandant's word on it?

There WAS an actual poll done of U.S service members on the topic -- what did the commandant have to say about that?

Amos, 63, said he was reviewing the results of a poll of military members and their families about the potential effects of lifting the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. He declined to characterize the findings.

Oh... well, then. I guess we'll just have to take his word for what the Marines want, after all.

[naaman fletcher]

27. well,

Given that Obama is just as much a fan of perpetual war as Bush, to wait until our soldiers are not locked in a tough fight means never.

[bluestateguy]

28. You will do what you are told and carry out the orders of your commander in chief...General

nt

[QC]

30. Exactly who is in charge of the military in this country?

I wish Obama had a bit more Harry Truman in him.

Remember what happened when McArthur treated Truman with this kind of disrespect?