Obama surprised by political cost of health law

[RamboLiberal]

Source: MSNBC/AP

President Barack Obama says the political cost of overhauling the health care system turned out to be higher than he had expected. And he admits that he gets discouraged at times when dealing with the economy.

In an interview airing Sunday night on CBS' "60 Minutes," Obama said the health care system itself is huge and complicated and that changing it eluded previous presidents because it was so difficult.

"I made the decision to go ahead and do it, and it proved as costly politically as we expected — probably actually a little more costly than we expected, politically," he said.

Obama said he thought that he would find common ground with Republicans by advancing health care proposals that had been introduced by Republican administrations as well as potential presidential candidate Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40059757/ns/politics-white_house/

---

I hope you learned Mr. President but I fear you may not.

[FrenchieCat]

1. AP and MSNBC? BIG FUCK YOU TO BOTH!

I wouldn't even post their fucked up propaganda!

[rug]

5. Then you can watch the interview on 60 minutes.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Yep.....use my two eyes and my ears, like I always do.......

not AP/MSNBC's take on it, that's for sure.

[sabrina 1]

22. What did they get wrong? He did push a bill, which he himself

stated had over 200 Republican proposals in it, yet they let Democrats take the fall for a Republican bill. Very clever of them.

If he had pushed for real reform, provided competition for the corrupt, predatroy Insurance Corps, he had the public behind him. Instead he wanted the impossible, Republican support. Even though they got most of what they wanted in the bill, but never could have done it themselves as the left would have been screaming, it was brilliant strategy to let Democrats do it and then stand back and criticize. This was all obvious throughout the entire process. He told us to STFU. I don't know why he is surprised. This bill is highly unpopular with nearly have the American public. A program with a PO would have been wildly popular, and Republicans would not have been able to touch it.

We didn't need this article to understand any of this.

What we got was a bigger version of Ronmneycare which after three years has seen premiums sky-rocket and the mandatory part of the bill, difficult to enforce.

[Djinn]

85. Wish you could rec individual posts

Cause Sabrina1 says it all succinctly - although I'd add that Obama never had any intention to attempt to implement any kind of national health system which he had sneeringly referred to as 'socialized medicine' during the Presidential campaign.

[Celtic Raven]

109. +1

Well said.

:thumbsup:

[Joe Bacon]

127. Thanks for selling us out to Wall St, Mr. President.

Time and time again, Obama trades orchard after orchard away to the Republicans and he doesn't get a single rotted apple back in return. Yet he still goes on appeasing them and now it's going to get even worse. We see him buckling on the Bush Millionaires Tax Cut and the Cat Food Commission is going to gut Social Security and Medicare with Obama's bipartisan blessing.

I guess it's time for the Wu-Tang Clan to update their song C.R.E.A.M. and this time make it stand for Corporations Rule Everything Around Me...

[polichick]

2. I too hope he now sees them for what they are, and stops wasting time with them...

He has a lot of presidential tools he can use to make changes for the better - I hope he doesn't hesitate to use them.

[closeupready]

133. He doesn't, and he won't.

n/t

[bemildred]

3. Obama is naive or this is bullshit. Take your pick.

The health care system is big and complicated? Oh my.

[breadandwine]

28. We have to work with Republicans. We tried that for 2 years, it didn't work, so let's try it again.

We have to work with the Republicans since there are so many things they care about that we care about and they and us are all we've got. We just have an innocent difference of opinion so certainly they will come around to working together.

One of these years.


We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.
We have no choice but to work with the Republicans.


Blah blah blah.


"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."


--------- Einstein

[ProSense]

4. The politics of

getting stuff done is costly, but worth it.

[No Elephants]

125. LOL

[panzerfaust]

6. So he might as well have gone for the promised public option

When you compromise with conservatives, and abandon those who voted for CHANGE, you gain neither the support nor the respect of the conservs, and simply wind up selling out your supporters.

Obamacare will be stripped of those parts that DID help people, and the parts that were simply a golden egg laid for the insurance companies will be preserved.

Better to have either won, or lost, on one's principles.

[intheflow]

16. +1000

You got that right - the insurance industry will be the only winners in the end.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. i agree

[BillH76]

21. Indeed. nt

[LibDemAlways]

23. Absolutely. A giveaway to insurance companies pleases only

insurance co. execs. and those politicians who benefit from their contributions.

[sabrina 1]

25. Exactly. He was badly served by those he surrounded himself with

He should have asked for advice for Democrats, instead of people like Lindsey Graham.

[Unvanguard]

36. Yes, he should have magically converted Lieberman and Nelson.

Or something.

[grahamhgreen]

42. He should have started negotiations at nationalizing all the insurance companie

And settled for a public option.

Or expanded medicare in reconcilliation.

He sold us out big time.

[Unvanguard]

62. That's not how bargaining works.

If Nelson and Lieberman thought the status quo was better than a given proposal, they had the power to prevent that proposal from coming into being. It didn't matter where Obama started from.

[MsPithy]

76. That is such a load of fucking crap, I hardly know where to begin!

Obama didn't EVEN ASK any Dems to support the public option, because he had already given it away to the corporations!

If he had the guts to fight for HCR that would have actually helped people instead of the insurance companies he could have,

Threatened to veto a bill without the public option.

Threatened to find and then campaign for primary opponents.

Gathered sick Americans, those without insurance, in the Rose Garden and introduced Nelson and Lieberman to each one saying, "Senator Nelson, this is your constituent, tell her why you won't give her the choice or the cost savings of a public option," IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA CAMERAS!

Drag every intransigent Senator to a National Association of Free Clinics, free clinic in their state, along with the media, and make him or her shake the hand of each and every patient. Tell each and every patient, "This is the guy/gal who is preventing health care reform."

And now, Obama has the nerve to whine about the political cost!!!! What about the cost to Americans who will forever be fucking slaves to our insurance companies!!!

[grahamhgreen]

83. Not to mention the cost of those who will die because they can not afford the insurance, and

If Obama had called for a rally for single payer in DC, he would have had a million people show up.

[madrchsod]

90. yes, obama is a terrible salesman and we paid the price

i have a funny feeling he was given a lot of bad advice by the people around him.

[saigon68]

101. Like liitle Greasy Rahm

[madrchsod]

114. yup...the rat bailed out

[Unvanguard]

97. You seem to have entirely ignored the point of my post.

The simple fact of the matter is that HCR needed sixty votes however you slice it, and neither "starting high" by making single-payer the initial proposal nor threatening veto of an excessively weak bill would have made getting sixty votes any easier. Unlike Obama and Reid, Nelson and Lieberman had weak incentives at best to compromise: they seemed perfectly willing to block health care reform forever if it came to that.

Maybe you don't remember, but by late 2009 health care reform was not winning any popularity contests, and, indeed, Nelson capitalized on his obstinacy in Nebraska. It was hardly an optimal circumstance in which to apply pressure. Nelson could have easily politically gotten away with an "independent" stance with the Republicans to kill health care reform if he found it too liberal, and Lieberman at that point didn't seem to care what Connecticut voters thought of him.

[joeglow3]

111. That would have forced Nelson to dig in his heels even more

The Red Necks in Nebraska would have supported Nelson as Senator for Life if Obama did that.

[joeglow3]

112. That would have forced Nelson to dig in his heels even more

The Red Necks in Nebraska would have supported Nelson as Senator for Life if Obama did that.

[The Croquist]

131. So how much do you think that nationalizing the insurance companies will cost?

Just wondering...

[eridani]

91. Why not? He magically converted Kucinich n/t

[Unvanguard]

96. Kucinich preferred more, not less.

So winning his vote was simply a matter of getting him to realize that his preference wasn't and wasn't about to be on the table.

The whole problem with the conservative Democrats in the Senate and the House is that many of them did prefer the status quo to a liberal bill.

[eridani]

98. The bill is not liberal, period

It's a big poison ivy salad with a nice vinaigrette dressing on it.

[No Elephants]

129. NO! Kucinich would have preferred neither more of what passed nor less, but

something very different.

Yet, Obama somehow twisted his arm to get him to vote for a lot of crap he hated. What arm-twisting did Pres. Obama even attempt with anyone who wanted to sell us out?

[No Elephants]

126. Or, he could have used reconciliation for a good bill. Btw, what. evidence do you have about how

hard he tried to "convert" ANYone? It is either extremely naive or totally disingenuous to keep claiming that a Democratic President and head of the Democratic Party has no control over a Democratic Senate.

[Unvanguard]

128. You couldn't pass most of the provisions of health care reform with reconciliation.

It had to survive a filibuster.

President Obama has close ties with the Senate leadership, but it is neither "naive" nor "totally disingenuous" to recognize that he does not control how each individual member votes. While he took mostly a hands-off approach to the battles in the Senate about the precise content of the health care bill, both Nelson and Lieberman were almost certainly under immense pressure from the caucus to fall in line, and greatly angered many other Senators by what they did. None of that made any difference.

[bonzono]

50. Better to have fought and lost

Better to have fought and lost
than to have Bipartisanshat and "won"
But rejoice
for Bipartisanshat 2.0 is here.
A vast upgrade to Birpartisanshat 1.0.
2.0 fixes a few minor bugs and adds
powerful new features guaranteed to
deliver compromise and cooperation
from even our most obstinate rePubic partners.

[Chulanowa]

53. Hilarious thing?

His "base" would still be lynching him in effigy, because they would rather have absolutely fucking nothing than have something that doesn't perfectly meet their personal litmus tests. And since that goalpost is always shifting, Barack Obama will always only be 3/5 of a president to the locals.

[provis99]

58. yes. the base are to blame for all of Obama's problems.

:eyes: :puke:

[Chulanowa]

59. If you're going to put words in my mouth, you could at least use interesting ones

[DonCoquixote]

66. OH yeah

This reply is worthy of a signature.

[pa28]

95. Actually, I would have been perfectly happy with the public option he promised to fight for.

I'll get off your lawn now because I'd sure hate to be accused of lynching anyone in effigy.

[No Elephants]

130. Bull puckey--and you should not cheapen the term "lynching" that way.

[donheld]

79. He said at one point

He was willing to risk his presidency on health care. Then he promply went to fighting for a mediocre bill.

[nc4bo]

103. Why did he aim so low? Better to have aimed high and let the opposition have shot it down

and let the American people spew their wrath on that opposition. The passion and rage would have followed people right to the polls. As it stands now, meh and the polls proved it.

As it stands, except for a chosen few, the health care status of most Americans remains in the same (or even worse) than it was before.

As far as "Obamacare" is concerned, what is there to be optimistic about now or in 2012?

[ThomCat]

104. Yes, and everyone here who cheers constantly for this health care law

as if it's the greatest possible thing that could ever have happened are cheering for the REPUBLICAN bills that Obama chose to push instead of the Democratic choices that would have given us a Public Options.

We ended up with this crap health care bill that gives us very expensive insurance policies we can't afford to use instead of health care.

It does nothing to lower costs. They even admitted that lower costs was not ever one of the objectives. They were merely going to 'slow down the rate at which costs increase.' Isn't that wonderful?

So insurance does not equal health care, and costs keep going up. We got the republican bill passed into law instead of the democratic proposals. But he made an effort to be Bipartisan, so that makes it all okay.

He can definitely spin this as a political victor even if it's not. It's only other people's lives. I'm sure he can find a small army of loyalists who will always insist that this was the ideal possible outcome regardless. It's health care Utopia! x(

[No Elephants]

124. What makes you think he did not win or lose based on his principles?

Some of us wanted him to win or lose based on populist and/or liberal principles. I doubt those are his principles, though.

[rug]

7. He paid too much for what he got.

[ProSense]

8. Actually,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9507794&mesg_id=9507794">no and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/03/obama-can-pursue-busy-age_n_778583.html">no.

[rug]

12. Actually,

those links are non sequiturs.

[rury]

13. K&R ProSense!

+100 million

[Jim Sagle]

94. + squat

[girl gone mad]

9. Indeed he did.

[Skittles]

45. HE paid?

WE ARE the ones who will pay

[emilyg]

47. That we will.

[ixion]

10. Perhaps if he'd have listened, he wouldn't be so surprised

I mean, it's not a big secret it was an unpopular bill.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Most likely if he would have listened,

we wouldn't have shit.....

and I for one prefer what we have....
and anyone intellectually honest would admit that they do too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9508547

[ixion]

15. so I'm intellectually dishonest because I opposed this legislation?

Yeah, whatever. :eyes:

[Flatulo]

29. Respectfully disagree...

We got Romneycare here in Mass a few years ago, and I have been forced to buy wildly expensive insurance that won't pay for a fucking single claim I make. Lipitor? Fuck you. Flector patch for back pain? Fuck you. MRI for my back? Fuck you. Epidural shots for crippling pain? Fuck you.

I feel like going down there and blowing my brains out on their front steps, but I'm sure they wouldn't even pay for the cleanup.

Making people buy a shitty product, under threat of force, is the absolute most perfect imaginable way to guarantee that that product is a piece of garbage.

Fuck them all. Next year they can come and burn me alive on national television. I am not paying this fucking extortion.

[kath]

37. "forced to buy wildly expensive insurance that won't pay for a fucking single claim I make." Yep -

now Romneycare goes nationwide. Heckuva job, Obama and "Democrats"!

[grahamhgreen]

46. The Sanders loophole

Sanders put a bunch of community health centers in the bill.

I dont know if they can help you. I hate this sh*tty bill.

[grahamhgreen]

43. So, you admit we got sh*t, then? Because big insurance will take their mandated trillions

Buy off a bunch of republicans and defeat what pathetic reforms are in the bill.

It's already happening.

[FedUp_Queer]

86. That's a lie.

Sure, when pollsters asked people generically about the health bill, people were "against" it. However, when people asked about particular provisions (like banning preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps, etc.) people are were overwhelmingly for it. Incidentally, I think he didn't go far enough. The enthusiasm would have been there in the mid-terms, if he had just fought and lost on the public option, etc. As it is, as so many here have said, he didn't even try.

[ixion]

99. No, it's not a lie. You need look no further than DU

All Obama had to do was watch the blood bath that was the DU debate over the legislation. We lost many old and vernable DU'ers in that period. That's how intense the debate was.

There were many of us opposed to the legislation for exactly the reasons we're seeing today. It wasn't a secret, and all you had to do to realize that was stop by the DU forums.

[FedUp_Queer]

132. Yes, it was a lie.

Now, let me say this. My beef with Obama is bound up in the bill. He didn't even fight for the public option, or medicare for all, so I agree in that regard. However, there are a few things in it that are good (I can't believe I'm "defending" it.) Do I like no preexisting conditions? Yes. No lifetime caps? Yes. Would a public option be better? Hell yes. Single payer? OH, hell yes. An end to insurance companies? Super, hell yes. This is not what that guy I responded to said. He merely said "people didn't like it." Well, people didn't know what was in it. When polled on some of the things in it, people did like those provisions. I'm sorry but asking people questions like "do you approve of disapprove of the health care bill" is like asking teabaggers if they think we should "return to constitutional government." In neither case do people actually know the constituent parts.

[Hydra]

115. You're trying to sell half the sandwich

Which we won't even get. There were no cost controls built in, and we've seen via the Gulf Oil Disaster what kind of regulation the Insurance companies will be held to.

The forced consumers like me will have to starve to pay for insurance we won't be able to use.

Where is the miracle in that? Beyond the fact that a D President did it?

[northernlights]

17. uh, gee, maybe if he'd advanced proposals that PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT AND NEED

instead failed republican gifts to the insurance industry, there wouldn't have been such political fallout.

Well, at least you pleased your GOP bffs. :shrug:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hansberrym]

20. Will the president pretend to be surprised at the dollar cost as well?

The politics of HCR going forward are extremely unfortunate. Health care costs will continue to rise because the average age of the population is rising. This is inevitable, but who will get the blame?

Will the administration claim in 2 years that the cost of health insurance is lower than it would have been w/o HCR? That hand is already way overplayed. People are already sick of hearing "jobs created or saved" and the bailouts (of the rich) prevented a depression.


The House republicans would do well to put forth an effort to overturn HCR, let the Senate defeat repeal, then simply wait to 2014 when it will be plain as day that insuring 40 million more people, raising the bar on what an approved plan must cover, and removing the lifetime cap will raise costs. Also this would put "the party of no" tag back on the dems.


Lastly, what will happen to the youth vote that put Obama in office when they are forced to buy a premium plan that they can not easily afford, do not need, and is forced on them to reduce cost to government for covering the old. Will the republicans not see the advantage in offering younger voters plans tailored to their needs?

[ramapo]

27. Insurance lobby won, we lost

The legislation has virtually no control over premiums beyond the most egregious increases. Those of us who have insurance through their employment get absolutely no relief. We are stuck with whatever our employers decide to provide as long as the policy meets the minimum requirements. We have no freedom to shop elsewhere. We are stuck staying in our networks. There is no freedom to seek treatment elsewhere.

The majority of people will see absolutely no benefit from this legislation. Everything negative that happens from the time it was signed into law on forward is being blamed as a consequence. Companies now see this as a easy out on canceling retiree coverage. Just blame ObamaCare.

Calling this mess ObamaCare is so wrong since he had so little input. There were virtually no demands on Congress hence they turned it into a big stinking pile of shit.

Take some time and investigate the systems in place in France, Japan, Germany, Switzerland and Taiwan. Not exactly all hotbeds of socialism. You will be sickened by the simplicity, broad coverage, choice, and peace of mind enjoyed by citizens of these countries as compared to the mish-mosh of coverage we have here.

The insurance lobby demanded the mandate to counter the ban on preexisting conditions. Even my wife thought the mandate was Obama's.

I wrote countless letters and faxes to my good Democratic Senators and President virtually begging them to not do what they did. The outcome could have been so much different had Democrats followed the Republican way of doing things; damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

[Hydra]

116. Obama may not have wanted the mandate

But he met with the bigwigs before talking to us and agreed to it as a term in return for them not fighting him on this.

It was a stupid trade, and he does indeed own it. It IS "Obamacare" because he wasn't willing to take the populist side in this issue or any other. The only things he's done for us, he's done because he absolutely had to(unemployment extension was a must, or he would have reaped and even nastier public backlash, and it didn't even help everyone).

President Obama- of the Corps, for the Corps, by the Corps...and we're supposed to cheering him on too?

[INdemo]

24. HE STILL..just don't get it..

He thinks the Repukes wlll cooperate..If he is still trying 6 months form now to get Repuke cooperation its over..He will be a 1 term President and we are screwed..So much for the change we can believe in..Democrats wont show up in 2012 either..

[FiveGoodMen]

119. Doesn't seem possible, does it?

"He thinks the Repukes will cooperate..."

No, I can't believe he's that stupid.

And the only other explanation is that he's really a front for THEIR policies.

A "good cop" to their "bad cop".

[2critical]

26. probably b/c PPACA sucked, as far as policy goes

and sucks as far as politics goes. Have not seen a change in our lives, few specific provisions we can point to that will. We need municipal health department, just like fire, police, and military. Only then can we get this beast under control.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jonathan_seer]

56. what does that mean

LOL

[glitch]

31. Sounds like he was trying to please Republican legislators, rather than US citizens.

Huge mistake, and we'll pay for that too.

Who would have thought that Democrats wouldn't be satisfied with healthcare proposed by Republicans every other year since Nixon. How bold of Obama to be the first Democrat to embrace it.

[begin_within]

32. What the hell did he expect? It's just a giveaway to private health insurers.

Of course there's going to be political repercussions for something that is such a disaster for the public. He's incredibly naive.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. His discernment of the character of Republicans is lacking

and that is a huge problem.

[Fearless]

34. It was the CONSTANT capitulating to Republicans that did it NOTHING ELSE!

[AllyCat]

35. For the fallout this modest reform has received, we could have had something

worth fighting over (public option, public insurance, single-payer, any number of options). While I am thrilled children are covered without the pre-existing condition nonsense, among many other things, for the insanity that has ensued because of this, it would have been nice to have had something that helped everyone right now.

[MsPithy]

78. Didn't you hear?

The insurance companies don't want to cover kids with preexisting conditions, even though it is now the law. Sooo, they stopped writing policies for ALL CHILDREN!!! How do you like that?

[AllyCat]

113. I had heard about that in a few cases. Didn't know how widespread the practice is

Just one more reason we needed something that didn't run through the slimy insurance companies. But then, we knew that.

[alsame]

38. He basically admitted it was a Republican bill. He said

something like 'it wasn't too different from bills that had previously been suggested by Republicans.' He compared it to Romney Care.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Makes you wonder if we elected a Trojan Horse....?

[inna]

61. He quite literally admitted it was a Republican bill:

"Obama said he thought that he would find common ground with Republicans by advancing health care proposals that had been introduced by Republican administrations as well as potential presidential candidate Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts."

[alsame]

63. What a truly stupid admission. The right hate it anyway

because it came from him and the left know they were betrayed.

Lose-lose.

[grahamhgreen]

39. How many hundreds of thousands of times did we tell him...

Mandating the purchase of crappy insurance from known scam artists is not HCR.

They will just take tye trillions and use the money to defeat any good that is in the bill.

[Odin2005]

41. Out. Of. Touch.

[Skittles]

44. you'd have to be clueless

seriously

[ibegurpard]

120. or this is what you actually wanted

neither is a very encouraging possibility

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unkachuck]

49. "...actually a little more costly than we expected, politically,"

....see, Mr. Prez....it doesn't matter what accomplishments you may have, it's how the pukes will describe those accomplishments within their corporate media echo-chamber that counts....

....you may walk on water or turn rocks into gold, but pukes will never cooperate and will always characterize your accomplishments as shit....they want you out, and have said as much....

....say what you need to say on TV, but consider a lesson from the Mighty Quinn of Illinois....he became governor against all odds because Chicago put him over the top....take care of your base, Mr. President, and your base will take care of you....

[Cherchez la Femme]

88. Alastair Sim?

Seriously? I was just watching a couple of his movies and one, The Ladykillers, where Alec Guinness channeled himself some Mr. Sim

Luv that actor!

[BrklynLiberal]

51. He made some poor choices..including those he chose to have around him as advisors...

I CANNOT BELIEVE HE IS STILL TAKING ABOUT FINDING COMMON GROUND WITH REPUKES!!! :mad:

[Odin2005]

52. he taught at the UNIVERSTY OF CHICAGO, the center of RW Neo-liberal ideology.

He was brainwashed.

[Chulanowa]

60. he lived in INDONESIA

He's clearly an Islamic terrorist!

[Lorien]

75. + a zillion

He's either utterly obtuse or he's in cahoots with the opposition.

[BrklynLiberal]

102. My thoughts as well..and I cannot decide which is scarier.

[grahamhgreen]

54. Obama suprised a bear sh*t in the woods!!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

55. He is sadly more naive than I realized.

He still thinks that he's going to somehow sit down with the Republicans and sing Kumbaya.

Our party as a whole just doesn't get it, and I'm close to giving up on it.

Frankly, I think the new health care law is going to be so watered down and chiselled away by Repukes by the time the main provisions become law that it will be less than worthless. If we couldn't get a real reform in; something like what Nixon proposed, I'm beginning to think that it would have been best just to let the current system complete its death spiral.

[skepticscott]

57. Can everyone please, PLEASE stop

referring to this as "health care reform"? It is health INSURANCE reform. The difference is not trivial.

[maddogesq]

64. Well said. If it were real health-care reform, then...

I wouldn't have considered traveling the 25 miles from my home to Canada and becoming a citizen had I not recently been awarded disability and Medicare.

Oh and by the way, I DON'T want the gubmint out of my Medicare, thank you very much.

[Nite Owl]

65. Clueless

absolutely clueless.

[Lorien]

73. Utterly and completely

so much for 11th dimensional chess.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

67. Well..."advancing proposals that had been introduced by Republican administrations...

...is part of why it was so politically costly you dope! The people who elected you did not WANT a Republican health care plan. If they did, they'd have elected a Republican!

[ProSense]

74. People have no sense of perspective

He was making a point about the bill to demonstrate why it's ridiculous for Republicans to have opposed it and now want to repeal it.

Every health care bill since Nixon's has included many of the same elements. The President's plan does include elements similar to the Mass plan, which was in large part written by a Democratic legislature.

Everyone is freaking out because the President said: "I made the decision to go ahead and do it, and it proved as costly politically as we expected — probably actually a little more costly than we expected, politically,"

They expected it to be costly. The unexpected part is that mostly everyone on the right wants it repealed.

That is not the nonsense implied by the article title: Obama surprised...

[Hydra]

117. And you missed the entire point

He sold us a Republican Healthcare Bill while pretending to fight for what we wanted.

The Republicans took one look at it, and said "No fucking way!! He didn't just give us everything we wanted and a cherry on top, did he??? He did?? Let's see how much further we can push this, and still get credit for fighting it!"

And people like you are still cheering it on...why is that?

[MsPithy]

82. Truer words were never spoken!!!

My hat is off to you, ProfessionalLeftist. My name is Pithy, but tonight you win the coveted Pithy Prize! Billions of words have been written about health care, but all that was needed were your two sentences!

"The people who elected you did not WANT a Republican health care plan. If they did, they'd have elected a Republican!"

[JCMach1]

68. When did politics become a confessional???

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Gomer says; Surprise. Surprise. Surprise.

Who'd a-thunk that politics would be more important to the GOP?

[Lorien]

70. so he promotes a plan for and by the people who hate him, which is unlike what the

people who elected him wanted. Hmmm...catering to the people who loathe you while dismissing the people who supported you. How could that plan possibly fail? :sarcasm:

[2Design]

71. he doesn't get it - he threw us under the bus - medicare for all or last resort public option

he then did not step up to the plate or any of them to tell seniors the repubs were lying - they let the thing go over the break and the rethugs frame it as a bad thing - they did not take charge and he still DOES NOT GET IT

[applegrove]

72. If all Obama does in the next two years is protect HCR..I'll be satisfied. Also repealing DADT.

[Hulk]

77. We seem to miss reality on this one.

I read posts saying "if he had just..." done this, or that, or held out for the public option, etc, etc. I think we need to hear this a few thousand times until it sinks in. He had to bend as far over as he did to get ANYTHING passed. This HCR did NOT pass with an extra vote to spare. It took everything he could do to get the lame ass dDemocrats in line to get this passed. President Obama was not just struggling with the Repukkkes and neocon-network on this...he was struggling with his own democrats to approve this.

From reading the posts on these threads, it seems like a number of us think he could have gotten more? He was damn lucky, and he worked damned hard to get what pathetic bill we got passed. It's a start. Just like with Social Security...it was a start when it passed. It didn't have the form it has today.

Jesus people....give the poor man a break. He's busting his balls trying to turn this f*cking ship around, and even our voices like "ed schultz, the mad hatter" "is losing confidence" in this President. What a pathetic, whining bunch of quitters. You think you could do better? Remember, this is NOT a dictatorship. It's not even close. He has to work things so he can get enough power to push them through.

I know the repukkkes are our worst enemy. I sometimes wonder about ourselves.

[yourout]

80. It would have cost him a lot less if it would have had a medicare buy in.

[mvd]

81. There were a couple problems

I think Obama let it linger in the Congress for too long without applying pressure. The Senate Finance Committee bill always seemed to be the favored one, and I don't know why. When he finally did apply pressure, there wasn't much time to get a public option in or other things that should have been in to make this a good bill. Bush got almost anything he wanted passed. I find it hard to believe we couldn't get things like the popular public option in.

That said, I do appreciate the step it took to make government have a bigger role in health care. But it seems like a missed opportunity, and is flawed because the system remains.

[andym]

84. The LCD effect

When you end up getting the least common denominator (LCD) in your legislation no one is happy.

The GOP hate HCR because it expands government power over industry and promotes equality, in that it is an attempt to provide health care for everyone.

Liberals hate HCR because it does not expand government power enough (like single-payer would) and because it provides large for-profit corporate insurers with more customers.

However, the principle behind HCR of promoting equality and health care as something that every American should have is the real victory for the President and progressivism in the USA. Unfortunately, the specific implementation is mediocre at best. Real change will hopefully come at the state level first and then spread. Perhaps California will finally pass single-payer now that it has a Democratic governor who won't veto it.

[mvd]

87. Good point

We shouldn't forget that the states can also be pioneers.

[madrchsod]

89. when you negotiate always ask for more than what you need

the people around him gave him horrible advice. i hope to hell he will have better advisors in the coming months.

[eridani]

92. With no front-loaded benefits in the bill, WTF did he expect?

He knew the Repukes would lie about it, so why no facts on the ground for significant percentages of voters before the election? And no, don't bother with the bullshit list again--we've heard it all. If a hundred people are drowning, and a lifeboat comes for 10 of them, WTF do you expect the other 90 to do? Stand up and cheer?

[Lugnut]

93. Medicare for all.

That's not complicated. Parasitic insurance companies add no value to the process.

[ProudDad]

123. +1000

[sendero]

100. He's going to be real surprised..

... in two years when he's besieged from all sides and his "base" could give two shits.

[jillan]

105. This is such bull - Americans are divided down the middle on HCR.

Obama needs to stand proud on this great achievement.

[Democat]

106. Is Obama stupid?

I like him, but sometimes I wonder.

[Roland99]

107. "would find common ground w/Repukes by advancing health care proposals...introduced by Repukes"

JESUS H. FUCKING CHRIST!!


how naive can Obama be?!?!

I don't think he'll EVER get that all the Repukes want is for him to fail and fail badly. They'll drag him thru the mud and forget anything they ever did or proposed in the past even if it was word-for-word the same.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. The money sentance:

"Obama said he thought that he would find common ground with Republicans by advancing health care proposals that had been introduced by Republican administrations as well as potential presidential candidate Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts."

This proves what many of us on the left have known since the beginning of the health"care" reform process -- it was RW bullshit meant to enrich the insurance/pharma corporations.

Plain and simple.

If O had pushed for REAL reform and called us Medicare for all, I have no doubt he would not be in such hot water on this issue right now.

[Doctor_J]

110. A lot of things have surprised him

I supported him over Hil in the primary, but I think shw would have dealt better with the willful treason of the Repukes in congress.

[loudsue]

118. And it will become a nightmare after a 2012 GOP congress gets hold of it.

Once they control washington again, the health care bill will be butchered.

[Safetykitten]

121. He is probably the most surprised president in history.

[ProudDad]

122. That's because he was pissing on Progressives all along

while looking the other way trying to pander to the pukes and blue-dog assholes...

He's tone-deaf...

[Atypical Liberal]

134. Kinda doomed to fail.

There were some nice things, like disallowing cutting people for pre-existing conditions, and letting kids stay on family policies longer.

But the "reform" did little for most people.

Everyone currently with private insurance is still getting screwed over by private insurance companies, and just about everyone without insurance still doesn't have it.

The people who benefited the most from the "reform" seems to me to be health insurance companies.