White House Gives In On Bush Tax Cuts

[Lorien]

Source: The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration was ready to accept an across-the-board continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

That appears to be the only way, said David Axelrod, that middle-class taxpayers can keep their tax cuts, given the legislative and political realities facing Obama in the aftermath of last week's electoral defeat.

"We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod said during an unusually candid and reflective 90-minute interview in his office, steps away from the Oval Office. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

(More at the link).



Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/white-house-gives-in-on-bush-tax-cuts_n_781992.html

[mbperrin]

1. But cutting social security will be just fine.

Asshats.

Motherfuckers.

More.

[Lorien]

7. But hands off the defense budget!

What additional social benefits will be on the chopping block, one wonders?

:banghead:

Can we have someone like Richard Nixon back in office? (I can't believe that I even find myself thinking that. Oh, how far we've spun out into the far, far Right)!

[boppers]

57. Didn't read the report, did we?

Massive defense cuts are in there too.

[Lorien]

64. The White house isn't promoting any DoD cuts

"A draft of the commission’s recommendations was posted on the commission’s website Wednesday afternoon. It is portrayed as the recommendations of the panel’s co-chairs, former GOP Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles, who served as President Clinton’s chief of staff.

Of course, 14 of the 18 commissioners on this panel must approve the recommendations and this is the draft. And the recommendations must still make it past Congress, which has shown little appetite under the Democrats so far to make substantial cuts to defense spending. And the Republicans are in the House now. While some of the Tea Party elements seem intent on at least calling for defense cuts, the senior Republicans who are likely to run the Armed Services and Appropriations committees are unlikely to look on with defense cuts with anything much nicer than a grimace.

Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/11/10/prez-panel-wants-100b-dod-cut/#ixzz14xenVMXS

[saigon68]

78. If you like the 2 wars going on NOW You'll Love the next couple

of years WHEN NEW WARS, that NOW are planned and ready to be executed occur

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

[Javaman]

210. Once upon a time, various administrations would promote programs for the good of the people...

now they slate up wars like it's the new fall season line up.

[defendandprotect]

319. Perpetual war works for the elite/corporates and they're controlling everything now ...!!

[boppers]

105. "calling for defense cuts"

Here, let me bold it:

calling for defense cuts

Would you like it in italics?

I can do that:

calling for defense cuts

Maybe make it HUGE?

calling for defense cuts

Is that better?

[Lorien]

108. The COMMISSION is calling for cuts, both (R) and (D)-NOT the White House

the White house has not weighed in yet, so don't even try to pretend that the two are one and the same.

[boppers]

110. I didn't.

The OP did.

[MrMickeysMom]

278. I think it's time you added a caption to my once loved Obama poster

"Chill the Fuck Out..... I'm THINKING about this one!"

:spank:

[boppers]

298. LOL.

Yes, that would be funny, and appropriate.

[Cal33]

322. I think it would be wise for us to slow down a bit, and not jump the

gun. Whe White House is coming out with denials today. Let's
just sit back for a while and watch how things turn out.

[trud]

138. I read the report

Social Security is right out in front. So is Medicare. "Defense" is an afterthought.

[Catherina]

160. An afterthought of chump change cosmetics n/t

[Javaman]

212. I like to call it a political version of rope a dope...

They come out with the cuts to vital services to the middle and lower class while trying to pacify us into thinking that defense will be cut as well. Thinking that that will make things all better!

yes, they think we are that stupid.

oh well.

since they are cutting the money I paid into both programs, they can just give me the refund instead? LOL

our money vanishing into a haze of bullshit.

[boppers]

300. How are you defining "right out in front"?

For that matter, how are you defining "afterthought"?

[pattmarty]

206. Massive? 200 billion in cuts to defense IS NOT massive.................

.........and this is just a "preliminary" report by the two ass hole co-chairs. This is not the final report. That comes out Dec 1st and the House and Senate has a up or down vote w/o ANY amendments allowed. You better read MORE than this early draft.

[Javaman]

215. 200 billion would be about 1/4 of it's budget...

that's pretty massive.

But will it actually happen? Of course not.

[ooglymoogly]

232. and those cuts will be eliminated

use your head. They had to say something positive.

[femrap]

277. The War Machine's budget

is divided into 435 parts....each Congressional District has JOBS tied to the War Machine.

Too bad those War Machine Jobs can't be turned into making solar panels, wind turbines, hell....anything that has been shipped to China. We can't even make toothpicks or straws in this country anymore.

We just make things that maim and kill. USA!

This is such Kabuki Theater. We have an opportunity to turn this lame duck session into something brilliant. We could actually kick some ass. But as Axelrod says....the administration is humbled and shellacked. I'm sick of it.

[Evasporque]

185. Tea Party wants to invade Iran and North Korea...maybe Canada...

Can't touch the defense budget.

[StarsInHerHair]

323. I thought Pakistan was the Irak of the 2010s

but I may be wrong

[saigon68]

199. Disgusting waste

[mahina]

159. Am I reading DU?

I read through the whole post with all comments, and came back up here to ask you and everybody else if they even checked whether this was true before making the statements that I see.

I hope every single soul who posted here worked hard and continues to work for something better. I can see a few posts here that are obvious psyops. The rest of you, minus one or two, appear to be behaving like lemmings.


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/11/919608/-Obama-Didnt-FoldMore-Huffington-Crap!

Obama Didn't Fold--- More Huffington Crap!

by whamfan Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:20:17 AM PST

According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts. He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended. This would be very big news (and contradict what he said in his Weekly Radio Address just a week or two ago). And it would be extremely depressing.

Since this is such big news, I immediately looked for ANY sources other than Huffington Post discussing this shocking development. I found NONE. Not the New York Times. Not CNN. Not even Talking Points Memo. Even a Google News search found ONE internet link on this topic---Huffington Post. Hmm, real interesting. The President makes a major decision on a key issue, and no one except Huffington Post even discusses it. There are two possible reasons for that:

1. Every other newspaper, news network or internet news source chooses to ignore it (which seems unlikely, especially in the internet area of 24-hour news and instant information) or

2. Other news sources view an informal chat with a presidential advisor as NOT being indicative of the Commander-in-Chief's decision.

more at the link, if you haven't jumped off a bridge or moved to the Netherlands yet. You folks are flipping out and it's not helping.



Poll:
Is the Huffington Post Correct that President Obama has "Folded" on Tax Cuts?
Yes, they broke the story that every other news source chooses to ignore
30% 77 votes
No, Huffington Post is just spewing more crap!
70% 183 votes

[global1]

209. If He Didn't Fold - Why Isn't He Out There Saying That He Didn't Fold ?.....

Why isn't he or the WH debunking the Huff Post story?

I think the handwriting is on the wall. We saw how the French handled it with the raising of the retirement age. Even with the protests by the French people - they went ahead and raised the retirement age.

We're seeing it again in London with the protests by the university students. I don't think that they'll be successful either and the Brit govt will screw them too.

The MSM in this country has played down both of these protests. They don't want to give us any ideas. They're hoping we just roll over and accept anything that they want to do to us.

The die is cast. The Catfood Commission will succeed. Obama will say that it is the tough decision - but it was made in a bipartisan manner - and we'll just bend over and take another one in the shorts.

It's going to be interesting when all this outsourced product that isn't manufactured in the U.S. anymore - starts sitting on shelves because - no one can afford to buy any of it.

The corporatists think that they have us by the short hairs. They don't realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot and causing us to spiral down the rabbit hole even faster.

No jobs. No money to buy the crap they are trying to sell us. No tax money being collected. People out of work don't pay payroll taxes. People out of work don't buy things and we won't be collecting sales taxes. People that lose their houses won't be paying property taxes. Property taxes support your local state, city, town or village and schools. Without property taxes our infrastructure will deteriorate even faster. Education will suffer even more than it currently is. Our children will be shortchanged. Our future that is in their hands will suffer because they will not be able to compete with students from other countries that are getting fine educations.

The rich are thinking they are sitting on easy street right now. They got their hands in our back pockets so deep with sell phones, cable TV, faster internet, fancy electronics, new and expensive energy efficient cars, skyboxes, etc and the list goes on and on.

But when the money that's left in those back pockets need to pay for ever increasing cost of food and shelter. There won't be any left for all those extravagances that they are trying to sell us.

Folks - we're in a death spiral here. There is no way out of this - if we continue on this path of financial ruin. This is just another one of those bubbles that will burst - and when this one bursts - it will probably be too late to recover.

I'm really depressed this a.m. - can't you tell.

[jberryhill]

269. Maybe because he is in South Korea

Addressing issues relating to a 2 million man army staring us down with nukes.

Just a guess.

[global1]

287. Oh - Give Me A Break (sarcasm)!.........nt

[jberryhill]

288. Not sure how to take that

But imagine how much more effective the administration would be if Mr. Obama took the simple step of getting an account on DU and chasing the shiny object du jour.

[mahina]

297. +2

Yep- now I know I like you.

How do you do. I'm mahina, pleased to make your acquaintance. I don't hang out here much so you won't usually see a lot of posts from me, but I've been around a while, and I do love DU.

So nice to meet you. Aloha.

[JDPriestly]

330. Jberryhill Actually, we on DU respond to Bush's fumbles.

Have you seen the movie, Inside Job?

[mahina]

296. +1 but honestly they aren't staring you down, they're staring us down.

Us, Seoul, and Japan.

[JDPriestly]

329. Nukes that previous presidents allowed North Korea to have.

Sorry, but jberryhill, this scenario is very much like that in France prior to the French Revolution.

The so-called "Bush tax cuts" transfered a greater portion of the overall tax burden on the poor and middle classes.

All we need is bad weather or a natural disaster that reduces the amount of available food and, voila, you will have a real mess.

Of course, if you are a teabagger, educated primarily or only, let's say, in business administration or law or engineering or science, you probably won't know the history of "old Europe" or much of any other culture for that matter, so you won't realize just how bad things can get when the poor and middle classes are oppressed too much.

All life is interdependent. That is true of humans too. We depend on each other. As John Dunne wrote, "No man is an island."

2 million man army staring us down with nukes indeed. The real threat is in a society that does not take care of its weakest. That is where the real threat is. The real threat is right here -- homeless families, millions of jobless and poverty contrasting with obscene wealth.

Wealth can be a good thing, but as the aristocrats in France found out in the close of the 18th century, wealth must be used for the common good because it can be easily lost if it is squandered selfishly. I hope we never have to face a revolution like the French Revolution. But the inequity in our society at a time of great economic and social change reminds me of that time and place.

One of the causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was the inequity in their tax system. You cannot create wealth by starving the poor.

[NoSheep]

266. Our own folks...drinking the cool-aid.

:argh:

[Time for change]

279. I believe it

For one thing, it would be consistent with almost everything else he's done since being elected president.

For another thing, the author of the article directly quotes a named top Obama advisor. Why on earth would he make that up? If he did make it up, it would be easy for Axelrod to disavow it.

You ask why other news sources aren't reporting this? Maybe the Obama administration is floating this as a trial balloon to see what the reaction is. If the reaction isn't too bad, they probably intend to go ahead with it. Maybe they feel that if they floated it to a more "mainstream" source, like the NY Times, then their hands would be tied.

[Imagevision]

335. K&R...

[grahamhgreen]

326. Obama ALWAYS folds. He has a PATTERN AND PRACTICE of folding. A con is a con is a con.

[BREMPRO]

250. they did NOT give in on tax cuts for the wealthy- this is a false reading of the story and headline.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751

[glitch]

270. What you mean is the surrender is temporary, not permanent.

Axelrod repeated that the extension would not be "permanent" today. Which means they are caving on an extension.
And down the road will there be another "temporary extension" on a tax cut that is already breaking this country and should never have happened in the first place?

[urgk]

272. Yep. UPDATE: WH denies accuracy of HuffPo story.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751#4610852

"Axelrod emails:

There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence."

(edited to correct typo)

[savalez]

281. White house denies story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751

Anybody want to take a wait-and-see approach to this? It might be prudent to do so.

[Imagevision]

334. Obama has no problem cutting social security seniors. Obama, multitask, no can do...?

[midnight]

2. What are they thinking? Fix the mortgage crisis...

[Javaman]

217. Oh come on, don't you know?

that's yesterdays news!

we are into a whole new land of bullshit.

they just don't have enough wall paper so they have to push the old stuff into the closet now.

[defendandprotect]

317. They transferred trillions of our dollars to corporations only recently ... what are you expecting??

Financial coup d'etat -- one of the biggest heists ever pulled off!!


Bailouts -- and sell outs --

We're on the sell out end!!

Please -- figure it out!!

[Poll_Blind]

3. "We have to deal with the world as we find it," You know this dude Obama once said:

"Nothing can stand in the way of millions of voices calling for change."

What the fuck ever happened to that dude? I want that dude as President!

PB

[Amonester]

18. Yep. Yes we can became no we can't pretty quickly.

Not surprising at all with that bunch of Professional Losers.

[Frank Booth]

29. That guy doesn't exist.

It was just someone playing a part. A somewhat pathetic, spineless, naive man who seems to have given up any hope or desire to be reelected.

[Poll_Blind]

31. I don't get it. How do you work your entire life for something- only to tap out?

How does that work?

PB

[Frank Booth]

36. I don't understand it either.

I bought into his candidacy as much as anyone else. I probably bought into his life story a bit too much too. I'm sure his parents would both be proud that he became president, but would they be proud of the job he's done? I can't imagine they would. They both seemed like fighters.

[Lorien]

48. Maybe it was just a matter of checking off an item on his life "to do" list?

:shrug:

[abluelady]

198. It Must Have Read

Become a one-term president of the USA.

[dotymed]

118. IMO,

Money,Money,Money, Mon hay...........

[Xicano]

183. It makes perfect sense when you see all he is, is just another corporate tool.

Remember when reports came out that he was lying about NAFTA during his campaign? That's exactly what he was doing, lying to us, and, now we can see he wasn't just lying about NAFTA.

My thoughts about Obama is I don't think he's a sell-out, rather he's a corporate tool who the corporate power saw as their best choice to replace Bush with given the attitude of the public at large after eight years of Bush and the Repubs.

As a Democrat Obama is invisible to me. And its my humble opinion that we cannot trust anyone who makes it to the White House to represent us irregardless if they are an (R) or a (D). The reason is because given the current lack of knowledge displayed by the average American, the ineptness and apathy displayed by the average American with regard to politics and economics. Because of this, corporate powers and their vast wealth have taken over control of everything. They own and control everything, and all the pundits in the MSM who the average American gets all their news from are just courtiers of the corporate power.

Nothing will change until the system itself is changed with regard to corporate person-hood status. Until then corporate money will continue to controll everything.

[global1]

216. Unfortunately For The System To Change We Have To Reach Rock Bottom......

We seem to be on a free-fall to that point. The only hope is that we reach it quickly and without too much suffering for us 98% of the people.

Something has to happen for us to begin to put things back in order. The coporatists need to have their come to Jesus moment - for us to recover.

That won't happen until they realize that they drained us dry and that there is no more money for them to make given their current way of doing business.

Do you feel that we're all in some real Sim City simulation game and the players are making all the wrong moves?

[Kyad02]

245. Coulden't agree more

Well put, We are doomed when multi national corporations control the MSM, the government and the brainwashed citicxens. It's hopeless I'm afraid. I live in NJ, a so called "blue" state and 99% of the people I know support the Tea Bagger mentality.

[JDPriestly]

331. You are right about this, Xicano.

Have you seen the movie, Inside Job?

[Xicano]

333. Thanks JDPriestly.

I've been meaning to see the movie, but, haven't yet got the opportunity. I intend to though.

:hi:


Peace,
Xicano

[panzerfaust]

120. Good Candidate. Poor President.

For which America is now the poorer.

Change ... where have you gone?

[Mink2]

295. Hope is still here

Change,gone but it will return, Don't give up.

[Cosmocat]

168. I love him and have staunchly defended him ...

against all of the ridiculousness from both the left and right, but I will be pretty disappointed if they cave on this ...

This is the right thing, first off, and it is a winning political battle ...

This is put all of your chips on the table and go all in time, and let things play out one way or another ...

[Meshuga]

188. I'm with you

But for me this is the point when I am about to tune out of politics for the sake of my own health.

[SammyWinstonJack]

214. Did that dude ever really exist? I wonder.

:shrug:

[ChiciB1]

256. Seems To Me That "The DUDE" Has Become Nothing More That "A DUD!" n/t

[Javaman]

218. You want that dude?

then call madison ave. They were the ones that sold us that dude.

[defendandprotect]

316. Personally, I'd like to get off this Obama carousel of capitulation .... !!!

People are wising up here -- some very pertinent questions being asked --

they should have been asked two years ago!!

We have to stop voting for the candidates that TPB are giving us -- that's

simply built-in betrayal we're voting for !!

On computers, no less!!!

[onehandle]

4. 'We were only following orders.'

[bulloney]

156. Dude, you should have warned us that you'd have a picture of Boehner on your post.

Now, I'll have to spray my eyes for an hour to wash the stupid off.

[Angry Dragon]

5. I am going to wait and see what he does

However, I do not intend to hold my breathe

[Little Star]

130. Yes. Stay tuned for next weeks episode as Obama...

comes home to save us from his own commission.

This is like watching a soap-opera. (or a scam)

The commission are the really, really bad cops and Obama will not take what they recommend laying down!

He will offer us something still nasty but not as nasty as what they offered.

We will be soooooo relieved(feel saved)and we will defend the shit he puts on the table.

Stay tuned for the next episode of "As the People get Hope". Same time same station.


Dog and pony show. That is all.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[time_has_come]

8. The way forward here is F@#K#$G obvious to me here. Tell me if I'm wrong...

...if the Republicans won't cooperate, allow the tax cuts to expire and blame the Republicans.

When people complain that they are paying higher taxes, explain that the country that you wanted to keep taxes down, but the Republicans chose to protect those making $250,000 +

[AtheistCrusader]

15. That's one good plan.

A better one would be extend the cuts only for people making less than say... 100k.

Edit:(better plan IMO, I of course can't prove it's better than yours. Yours IS good.)

[liberalmike27]

34. I like this one

It includes about 80-85 percent of all families, and I guarantee you most people who make less than 100K won't be feeling sorry for them.

Amazing how they manage in the SS suggestions want to cut the top rate back from 35 to 23 percent, AND at the same time levy a 15 cent per gallon tax on gasoline.

Like I've been saying for ten years on message boards, it isn't about raising taxes, it's about who is going to get their taxes raised.

Add to that, Mobile, AL just raised their sales tax to ten percent, and Chickasaw, a nearby community just went to 10.5 cents per dollar.

Today I'm feeling very noticeable anger in the air, more than ever, and increasing steadily. They've goaded the rabble today more than we can take almost.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. That gas tax is regressive as hell

Its insulting that it would even be suggested, while reducing the top marginal tax rates. Disgusting.

[SlimJimmy]

153. It also includes the firefighter and teacher who make a bit

over 100k when you combine their salaries. But hey, they're rich, right? Let's just raise their taxes - they deserve it for being wealthy.

[U4ikLefty]

324. Only that "bit over 100k" will be taxed at the higher rate

So the bulk of teacher/firefighter couples will pay no more, or a margnially higher amount of taxes.

[dotymed]

124. We need to return to the tax system of the '50's

Progressive rates all the to the top, with NO loopholes. Of course there has to be "protectionist" tariffs to restore industry to America. It is either that or "compete" with 50 cents a day labor......
It seems to me that these "reality shows", keeping up with the Kardishians, sweet 16, etc.. would piss off the masses. Watching all of that excessive wealth, while the masses are suffering. Instead, it is a great escape, those people deserve that money..........unfuckingbelievable.

[pattmarty]

213. While I totally agree with you, it ain't gonna happen. I never "guarantee"....

......ANYTHING, but I will guarantee you that.

[defendandprotect]

318. True ... but 20 years ago, Mario Cuomo pointed out that if we at that point wanted

to increase taxes on the wealthy we'd have to call out the National Guard!!

Imagine where we are now?!!

The bailouts were the largest financial coup d'etat every pulled off -- $12 trillion?

From the Revolutionary War to 1990's our total debt was $12 trillion -- !!


Bailouts and sell-outs is what we're being offered --

We're on the sell-out end!!

Everyone has to begin to figure this out -- and develop a Plan B together!!!

[grahamhgreen]

327. The Greatest Generations taxes worked. Let's do what they did and make us great again!

[QC]

20. That's an excellent strategy, but it requires a willingness to fight,

which makes it totally unsuitable for this administration.

[kath]

21. That would require some spine,

and some effort to get the Democratic message (if there even IS such a thing anymore) out.

[Yupster]

41. On January 2 the Republican House

with great publicity passes a law reducing all tax brackets to what they were on December 30.

That bill gets sent to Harry Reid in the Senate where it ..... ?

Is passed and is sent to the president who vetoes it?

Is never voted on and dies?

How is that going to be blamed on the Republicans?

[No Elephants]

69. Senate could filibuster. And I don't give a rat's whisker whom it gets blamed on.

At some point, the lollipops in D.C. need to do what's right for America and Americans. Hell, rethugs do what is wrong for most of America and get people to vote for them anyway.


The remedy for lousy public relations skills is better and better public relations skills, not crappier and crappier federal laws and policies.

[No Elephants]

104. Begs the question: Why wait until January 2, 2011? Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006

and Repubicans would have been more cautious about alienating voters, then. For that, matter, we still controlled Congress and many Blue Dogs have nothing left to lose, so why can't a Democratic house force Republicans in the Senate to block "Obama tax cuts?"

And when will endless excuses cease being enough for us?


(Too late to edit my first reply.)

[Yupster]

284. You're right about that

the Congress should have voted on this long ago. It should have passed a budget and it should have passed some estate tax law before it expired.

The estate tax has copst tens of millions or more this year alone because congress just didn't do its job.

[Cosmocat]

175. the Fin House ...

SHOULD have run a bill extending the middle class/lower class cuts two months ago if democrats had the first god darned clue as to what was best for them/the country, and after getting pasted last week and absolutely NOTHING to lose right now, they darn well SHOULD have the bill on the blocks now ...

Only sitting on their friggen laps in fear has somehow gotten them to a point where a SURE winner could somehow turn against them ...

[Yupster]

285. I agree

with you.

[GOTV]

97. Obama will just not allow the Republicans to look bad ...

... and then he'll act surprised when the voters send him more of them.

[Cosmocat]

172. It is stone cold, not ifs, ands or buts obvious ...

1) It simply is the right god darned thing to do ...
2) It is a winner politically ...

Again, if this was holdum, the dems are getting dealt a pair of aces ... In holdum, you never has a sure winner, and you have to tread carefully with 99.5% of the hands you are dealt ... But, bullets have by far the greatest chance of winning out, and when you have them, you push all in and let the chips fall where they fall ...

THIS is the fight you have if you are ever going to fight ...

It IS very obvious, and it just pains me that the dems didn't draw into this two months ago, because it would have had a profound positive effect on the election last year, but if they didn't do it then, they darn well SHOULD do it now ...

[Meshuga]

190. If we cave

The Republicans will get credit for pressuring Obama to give regular folks a tax cut. I can see the talking points all over the media.

[adamuu]

254. He could say, "They proposed no way to fund it. I had to veto it."

That's the truth.

[harun]

313. Or, "Their proposal wasn't deficit neutral, fiscally we just couldn't make it happen". (Shuck's)

[femrap]

280. That's a pretty good idea...

given the state of our economic demise, let the fucking tax cuts END! And blame the repugnants for fighting for the millionaires.

I'm with ya!

Hell, aren't the repugnants and teabaggers screaming about DEFICITS, DEFICITS, DEFICITS????

Bring back the tax rates of their wonderful leader, raygun!

[2Design]

9. guess they don't want ANY DEMOCRATIC voters anymore

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Wizard]

164. Not Trojan horse

just Trojan. Somebody is acting like rubber here.

[Mojorabbit]

10. Is there nothing they will stand up for? nt

[Altoid_Cyclist]

86. I'm pretty sure that they stand up quickly when greeting their corporate masters.

I'll still give Pres. Obama some leniency to prove himself, but at some point things are going to have to start to resemble "change".

Maybe a Feingold / Grayson challenge in 2012 might bring back the change that we were promised.

[Iowa]

11. What a spineless coward.

[Democat]

92. Not just a coward, but politically an idiot.

Why would voters support Democrat in two years if Obama just does everything that he's told to do by Republicans?

[MissDeeds]

161. Spot on

It's time to get someone in the White House who will stand up to Republicans, get rid of Bush's policies, and govern like a Democrat.

[Cosmocat]

181. This is a deal breaker ...

I agree, it will hurt MUCH more than anything else with dems ... AND, while Rs will gleefully lap up this victory, they of course will still go after him like he was the spawn of the devil ...

This is THE fight to have, the line to draw in the sand ...

[Iowa]

292. Actually, the real truth is that he's complicit...

He's neither cowardly nor politically an idiot. He may as well just switch parties and be done with it.

[defendandprotect]

312. Exactly ... but at least the posts trying to alibi for him are stopping .... !!! What now?

What's Plan B, folks?

[MissDeeds]

321. + 1

He is indeed complicit, and should switch parties now. No true Democrat would follow the course this president has followed.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJCher]

12. shocked and sickened

This reminds me of what we went through with health care. At the end of it all, nothing for me. I still have no health care.

Really, this is it for me. If they let the wealthy have their tax cuts, I am through with politics forever. I will never vote again. This government and this administration is a farce.


Cher

[cilla4progress]

14. That's where I'm headed

and I was a PoliSci major in college! My approach is: I just can't take it seriously.

[Lorien]

16. I'll vote, but only for real Democrats or third party Liberals

I'll never vote again for Obama or any other Right Wing "Dem".

[kath]

25. Anyone who votes for this is NO Democrat. Period.

No exceptions. line in the sand.

If this goes through, I am DONE.

[dreamnightwind]

83. And that's exactly what they're counting on

I sympathize completely though, I'm just sick about most everything he does and what's happening in this country in general. Hang in there, these things have their waves and who can say what's ahead? It'll be at least a little better if we all keep working on the change we want to see.

[newfie11]

95. I agree, same for me. n/t

[trud]

143. Re: "I am through with politics forever. I will never vote again"

Don't do that. Instead support only true Progressives. The problem with Obama is that, as his detractors said during the campaign, he really had no record, just talk, so we voted for what he said and wound up with something else.

We need to support people who are genuine Progressives, unless we think giving up on this mess is okay and dooming our kids and grandkids. I'm sure Washington was pretty discouraged during the Revolutionary War. He didn't give up.

[MissDeeds]

169. Well said

And welcome to DU! Glad to have another progressive on board.

:hi:

[global1]

222. The Problem Is How Do You Spot A Genuine Progressive?.....

I thought Obama was a genuine progressive. We were duped.

Even the TeaParty candidates that sold their line of BS to the electorate are now going back on their words.

It appears that most everyone that runs for office - says what they think the electorate want them to say and then when they get elected - they cave and do their own thing or serve the corporatists and get corrupted by the system.

[ramapo]

176. Ouch

That hurts, really hurts, but only because it is so true.

I wrote dozens of letters, donated money, did what I could to influenceour Democratic "representatives" to enact a real HCR plan. What we got addresses not one of my issues and helps me not one iota. Yes there is some benefit to a relative few and perhaps years from now many will be able to get insurance that cannot today but the reality is the plan is a big fat pile of crap.

A co-worker told me yesterday that taxes will go up soon because there will be gridlock in regards to the tax cuts. I replied he should not worry because Obama will cave. I thought he might at least put up at least a whimper first.

Oh well, another few decades squandered. It is beginning to look like I will not live long enough to see real change that I can believe in.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. I wish I could say I'm surprised.

I really do.


If you'd told me this could have happened on the campaign trail, I would have laughed in your face.
Who's the sucker now huh? HUH?


Oh yeah. Me.

[QC]

17. Everyone chill the fuck out!

He's got this!

[jillan]

22. What does he have? Definitely not a spine.

[QC]

23. Or guts.

Or principles.

Or any sense of loyalty to those who had such faith in him.

[Hawkowl]

30. You forgot the sarcasm thingy . nt

[QC]

32. It shouldn't be necessary anymore, as patently absurd as has become the notion

that he's got control of anything.

[Poll_Blind]

42. +1,000

That is probably the most astute observation I'll read today- you're right. It needs no sarcasm tag. The irony of it now is as self-evident to anyone and everyone reading as was the seriousness it was meant in, when it was originally posted in 2008.

PB

[boppers]

60. Oooh, I mocked a slogan!

How smart of me!

I am BRILLIANT!

[Lorien]

66. That's all it ever was; a slogan

like the rest of the false advertising.

[Segami]

68. It later morphed into a Rap-Jingle. Its almost criminal

to have given so many hurting people a renewed sense of ' Hope ' and that REAL HISTORICAL CHANGE had finally arrived only to see it fragment and whittle away at every turn.

[No Elephants]

71. Who's slogan?

[Bluebear]

74. Brilliant? You?

OK.

[GOTV]

99. Is it smarter to use a slogan?

[QC]

244. No, I'm mocking the personality cultism that ripped through this place

like typhoid through a 19th century tenement block.

[lumberjack_jeff]

261. +1 n/t

[No Elephants]

65. LOL

[SammyWinstonJack]

221. HA!

:spray:

[jillan]

19. This could be my line in the sand. I honestly believed him when he said he would not extend the tax

cuts to the top 2%.

I don't think I can believe him anymore. ‘Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.’

[No Elephants]

70. For me, twice occurred before Inauguration Day. And I've stopped counting. If I

could turn back time, though, I'd probably still vote for him in the primary and the general. I just would not donate again--not to him anyway. And, sadly, I don't see anyone else on the horizon for 2011-2012.


I'm sad.

[bowens43]

100. He's pretty much lied about absolutely everything.

I have never been so disappointed with a politician in my life.

[Cosmocat]

180. I would be deeply disappointed ...

I have defended him STAUNCHLY against attacks from both the right and left, but this is a drop dead winning line in the sand ...

THIS is the battle to have ...

[jtuck004]

24. "We have to deal with the world as we find it,"

Then what are we paying you for?

[Lorien]

26. His "Hope and Change" slogan is becoming as much of an embarrassment

as Bush's "Mission Accomplished" banner. Unreal.

[Poll_Blind]

28. Unreal is right. I told all my kids about Obama and what he stood for and Bush, and...

...what he stood for. They're little kids, you try to show them examples in the world of people, people who you think can really make a difference.

People who will hopefully (collectively) inspire your children to realize they can change the world.

Nah, looks like Dad was just taken in by a big fat fucking line of bullshit.

PB

[Scruffy1]

79. You weren't alone

Even this old cynical red fell for the smooth talking corporatist. Looks like things are going as planned. Fuck up the midterms then plead I am powerless. I'm sure some of the big money will help him get elected. Could we jsut oncew have a leader who isn't a coward.

[shireen]

134. +1

Profound disappointment.

:cry:

[jillan]

201. +1

[Patchuli]

33. His statement reminds me of Rumsfeld

saying that we have to take the military the way it is (and still fight useless wars!)

[0rganism]

50. compare that attitude to...

(A senior Bush aide, probably Rove) said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
( Ron Suskind / http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?_r=2&ex=1255665600&en=890a96189e162076&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland">Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush )

Axelrod is still playing by the old rules. Nothing has been learned. People desire confident certainty from leaders, whether or not this certainty is rightfully placed. Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers. The next person to win the presidency, regardless of political affiliation, will do it the same way.

For a sitting president, errors in fact and ethical shortcomings are easily forgiven, but perceived weakness is a mortal sin.

[No Elephants]

91. Agree (mostly). Axelrod's job is, and for a long time, has been, to get Obama elected

President and re-elected, period. Even heading Deval Patrick's 2006 campaign was part of Axelrod's helping Obama get elected.

His job now is to make sure we blame "the system," or elected Republicans, or Obama's critics (including "the left," if deemed necessary to shield Obama) and, if push comes to shove, other elected Democrats. IOW, "blame anybody but Obama (BABO)" and "It's OK if Obama does it (IOKIODI). We'll see if Axelrod succeeds in this phase of his job.


"Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers."

I submit that is only part of the reason. A perfect storm existed for Obama's election and for voting for inspiring words (Axelrod's--used first publicly in Patrick's campaign) and for hope and bold change, rather than looing forward to more of the same (as, say, those willing to vote for Nixon after 8 years of Ike).

The "perfect storm" included, yes, Obama's personal charisma and his family's. However, as we know all too well, many voters in this country still don't see past race.

IMO, bigger parts the "perfect storm" were: 8 years of Bushco; the obvious drawbacks of the only serious opposition (Hillary and her baggage, and then the McCain Palin ticket); and (decisive blow) the shocking news, fairly close to voting time--and still under Bush--of massive economic collapse and McCain's erratic, sometimes bizarre, reactions to the news.

Thanks for the Rove quote. I wish I could say I thought it was all bs, but, while somewhat overblown, it summarizes a lot of my frustration with how Republicans win, despite the repulsiveness of their positions.

[dotymed]

129. And, our wonderful Media, for

minimizing anyone who was really anti-PTB, like Kucinich.....

[No Elephants]

146. Yep. I "love" the RPM (Republicon Propaganda Media).

[GOTV]

189. I don't think throwing in the towel without throwing a single punch will do it

[0rganism]

294. that was Rove's job for W, too, so the positions are comparable

We'll see who's better at it in 2012.

>> Obama won the presidency by exuding supreme confidence in the vision he inspired in his followers
> I submit that is only part of the reason.
But would you agree that it's an important factor? Indeed, I would go so far as to say that it's necessary unless one's opponents are total douchebags.

It's not just about winning, though, it's about getting one's policies enacted after an electoral victory. Having Obama's smiling face and perfect diction in the whitehouse is a welcome relief after 8 years of The Decider, but he's missed opportunity after opportunity to lead. In this age of perpetual campaigns (and now unfettered corporate influence) any signs of presidential weakness are liabilities themselves, cracks in the foundation of popularity which the opposition will exploit to the fullest.

For all their countless flaws, Karl Rove and the republicans seem to understand this.

Perhaps Obama takes seriously the media's exhortations for him to compromise at every turn to coax republican favor, without receiving any cross-aisle support in return. If so, he's getting remarkably poor advice and will definitely be a one term president, as he will have shown himself and his cabinet quite incapable of strong, independent leadership.

[GOTV]

101. The thing is, he's NOT dealing with it. He's just standing there letting it blow past him.

[tomm2thumbs]

27. time to add a macro to my computer - 'White House Gives In On...' fill in blank

gonna need that for the next 2 years - not that it wouldn't have been used quite a bit these last 2 already

My guess is:

They knew if they let them expire, the votes were there to pass it in the new House and Senate - and Obama would have to veto an entire tax cut bill to stop the top percent cut - and he wouldn't be able to rely on it being a veto-proof majority and they did not want the GOP getting the credit for the tax cut generally.

That is my guess - however, it sounds like they could have broken it into parts and done the under-250k cut first and let the members stand in the spotlight fighting for the richest to get billions in cuts and play it how it may.

Filthy, just filthy

[mazzarro]

35. Well, Well, Well

This is the biggest disappointment coming from this administration - a continued "spinelessness" and sense of purpose as a democrat. I have lost all hope and faith in this administration!

[grahamhgreen]

38. Obama, the Trojan Horse. I don't want to borrow more money to give to the rich.

[Hardrada]

39. Presumably Obama has read the New Testament.

Curious how he takes as role models both Judas Iscariot and King Herod when he had other options (The Good Samaritan comes to mind).

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[d_b]

43. Can has new party nao?

[No Elephants]

103. That may well depend upon how badly YOU want one. And, whether you can get the left wing equivalent

of the Koch Bros (hopefully, less evil) to fund your efforts.

[Occulus]

113. Someone needs to start an American Labor Party. n/t

[No Elephants]

128. LOL

[defendandprotect]

314. Labor and women -- unions --- meanwhile notice how QUIET the liberal orgs are ....

Same problem that we've been having here at DU -- they don't want to

face the reality that it's a Democratic president doing this!!!

Well -- time to wake up, folks!!!

[ignatzmouse]

44. Goddamn it, man. Are you afraid of a fight?

We continue with the idiocy of throwing away every piece of negotiating leverage before any negotiations begin. This issue is tailor made to FORCE the Repugs out into the open on both the deficit and the middle class. But here we have Obama being cowed once again into wringing his hands in the corner. He's so damn fond of citing Reagan as a presidential example. The ONE thing that he could learn from Reagan is to HAVE SOME BALLS.

[Lorien]

49. He's happy enough to fight against those of us who elected him. nt

[dreamnightwind]

82. As Fred Flintstone used to say...

DINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

"This issue is tailor made to FORCE the Repugs out into the open"

Perhaps it did just that? POTUS = DINO?

I'm fairly certain he has balls, big ones. Looks to me like he's doing this either because he believes in it (likely IMHO) or he is little more than a sock puppet for the real rulers.

It's pretty obvious at this point that this man is not who we thought he was, and certainly not who he told us he was.

Ouch. This hurts. No true Democrat would support this.

[SammyWinstonJack]

235. Probably both. He believes and is a sock puppet for the real rulers. I'd go with that.

He apparently CAN have it both ways.

[Segami]

45. Barack LIEberman.

[Segami]

52. Why do I get the eerie feeling that his intention was to continue

the BUSH Era Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest from the get-go and the rest was nothing more than political theater to appease the masses?

[Lorien]

54. Not at all far fetched; that was the first thing I thought of when they chose

to delay the vote until AFTER the election.

[No Elephants]

96. Ouch.

[Barbara2423]

46. Weak Leaders: That's the reason the Dems lost not the economy.

Democratacs need a third party. One that has Democratic values and can stand and fight against the republicans. There is no helping this Administration, they just don't get it.

[dreamnightwind]

89. I agree, but

this country is setup for 2 parties, long odds against a 3rd party making it.

And besides, the Democratic Party historically has the right values, so it's really OUR party, not theirs. Maybe we just need to do a good house-cleaning? I'd get behind someone like Dean or possibly Grayson.

How 'bout we primary Obama with Oprah? That would be a lot of fun.

[No Elephants]

98. If Democrats had been more effective, the economy would have been better, anyway.

[Bryn]

47. It's a LIE

The Middle Class is no longer or is getting smaller and smaller. They're disappearing everyday. Millions of jobs are oversea now, gone from USA. Might as well let tax cuts for the middle class go to allow tax cuts for the rich to expire.

[avaistheone1]

58. Yes and those jobs are never coming back.

Our president and our Congress are too weak to make the structural changes it would take to bring our jobs back.

[femrap]

286. The Middle Class is now

referred to as 'The Former Middle Class.' I'm sorry you didn't get the memo on that.

If we can't increase the millionaire's tax rate back to the level under their idol, raygun, then we are truly BOHICA.

[47of74]

51. Since the election the desire to leave this nation forever...

...enters my head at least once a day. I'm thinking Italy or Luxembourg.

[The Northerner]

55. I'm hoping that this isn't true but I'm planning on considering my chances

on whether to emigrate to the Netherlands or somewhere in Scandinavia if this is true.

[newfie11]

102. I also am looking but the euro is to high. n/t

[Gator_Matt]

144. Me too.

New Zealand looks nice.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Segami]

56. Maybe they're part of that Wealthiest Group who desperately need the Bush tax cuts

in order to feed & clothe their kids.:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

253. If so, I'm guessing it was inherited wealth.

[Bluebear]

75. Not ONE "ignored" poster.

And believe me, my ignore list is long~~!

[Lorien]

109. I noticed that too. nt

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indy legend]

142. All hail the compromiser-n-chief.

from hope and change to spineless, gutless failure in only two years.

[anAustralianobserver]

61. This is so scary. Why can't it be split into 2 parts in the lame duck session? I'm confused.

[BlueStater]

63. I was hoping my intial doubts about him were wrong.

But so far he's proven himself to as much of a wuss as the rest of them. He better get his fucking act together soon because we're all going to pay for the consequences of his spinelessness.

[urbuddha]

67. I'm ready to leave the Democratic Party now...I've had it. The Socialist Party is a better idea.

Goodbye Dems. Hello Socialist Party.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scruffy1]

121. Welcome aboard-except we have no money or organization

[Loudmxr]

72. Watch this. They will cave. Letting the cuts expire will be the best thing for the debt.

Look. More taxes will just mean a few more hundred dollars for most of us. If that much. It depends on how you legally work the tax system. Remember most millionaires pay about 16-20%. Really. If you pay more than that....

For most of the American people they didn't even know or appreciate the tax cuts our President got for them. So screw them.

But the Demos will cave and give the rich everything they want.

[katnapped]

122. Debatable at that

More taxes will just mean a few more hundred dollars for most of us. If that much.

This of course, assuming you have a job. If not, well sucks to be you then!

[CreekDog]

73. just like that? forever?

man that was fast.

oh well it's only billions and i'm sure we can pay for it by cutting things that help students, the middle class and the elderly.

:wtf: :banghead:

[xchrom]

76. recommend

[slay]

77. As a middle class-ish guy - I'll gladly give up mine if they have to give up theirs

we will have NO infrastructure in this country AT ALL if we don't start taxing the hell out of the rich! Why can people not see this>? :(

[urgk]

136. +1 n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

145. +2

Nothing intelligent to add, other than

Fuckity-fuck-fuck!

:thumbsdown:

[DFW]

81. So I get a few bucks extra--for WHAT?

This would slightly effect me. I don't need it. I think I should ask the guy that does my taxes
to calculate how much less I'll be paying in taxes, and put it away for contributions to the
campaigns of any future Alan Grayson candidacy, or maybe Bernie Sanders, or Howard's DFA.

Too bad the country can't see fit to spend it on its own citizenry rather than further line the
already bulging pockets of the "me" generation.

[onethatcares]

84. the world as I find it at this point really sucks

I guess two more years is what it will take to really drown this country in homelessness and death

Never again, ever, will I fall for the silver tongue speeches.

There were millions of us that want CHANGE and we got nothing.

Of course the pukes had no legislative or political realities facing them in 08, just a bunch of cronies with excuses.

[BlueJac]

85. I knew it.......

the gutless, cave in party, that I used to support, did it again. They really don't get it. Obama is turning out to be a hugh failure. Next move, cutting social security for billionaires.

[ixion]

87. Get ready for 2 years of capitulation

:(

[Lorien]

106. It's already here. :-(

[katnapped]

126. Stock up on cat food now!

Beat the holiday rush!

[harmonicon]

192. I've gotten used to it after the last two years of capitulation. n/t

[ixion]

196. Indeed. I should have said 2 'MORE' years

:(

[Democat]

88. Anyone who didn't see this coming was just blind.

Come on, the guy gives in to Republicans on just about everything.

[LawnKorn]

90. Disappointment

We need to have the rich pay their fair share.

[FlyByNight]

93. Not surprised

The administration, with the Rs, doesn't seem serious about meaningful debt/deficit reduction. The wars/occupations (and Pentagon bloat) and Bush-era tax cuts are a huge part of the problem and they're, essentially, not up for discussion.

Keeping the tax-cuts for the wealthy will cost how many hundreds of billions? A trillion? Afghanistan continues to be a goddamn money pit and Iraq is nothing but a re-branded, low-key occupation.

President Cave-first-then-compromise is weak, soft and seems to lack core principles. Way to rally the base Mr. President! He hasn't learned a thing. (Although, I'm starting to wonder who is "base" really is.)

:banghead:

[sweetapogee]

149. but...

keep in mind we are still getting free health care and coverage for pre-existing conditions. Win some, lose some, eom

[GOTV]

94. Where are all those that said this wouldn't happen?

[SammyWinstonJack]

239. +1. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

107. "Change"

Your ass.

[Ganja Ninja]

111. I knew this would happen when the Senate balked on the tax vote.

And it was probably in the works long before that. So much for hope and change.

[instantkarma]

112. IT'S PROPAGANDA. WAKE UP.

Fineman and Stein are leading you around by your emotional reactionary noses.


The title states the proposition as a fact.
In the first paragraph the authors claim Axelrod "suggests" that the proposition will become a fact.
In the seventh paragraph Axelrod is quoted as saying "the president's commitments haven't changed," meaning the proposition is not a fact, and the proposition will not be considered until the commission report is released Dec. 1.

So in summary...

This story states that the proposition is a fact, the proposition will become a fact and the proposition is not a fact. Fineman and Stein are completely full of shit. Wake the fuck up.

That's not to say that the title of the article won't become true. It may. My point is that it's currently not true as stated in the title, and the authors are bullshitting all of us. And from reading the replies on this thread, it seems they've done a pretty good job of it.

[SharksBreath]

114. Propaganda: Just like Obama

was for the public option. He sure fought for it by bargaining it away from the beginning.

Hun.

[instantkarma]

125. Funny how life is.

We all make up stories.

I have a story about how, once Obama assumed office and began to actually work on health reform, he quickly recognized a public option would never pass the Senate. Coming to the presidency from the seat of a first-term senator and not having the clout on the hill of say, LBJ, who was minority leader, majority leader and president of the senate; or FDR, who was a Roosevelt, after all, Obama knew he couldn't bully people into voting the way he wanted them to. So he worked to pass what he could. Sure, he dropped the public option early on, and that was a severe blow to progressives, me included, but he also managed to get some very important issues addressed (even as some others got punted down the road to the next generation.

But that's just my story. Maybe it's what really happened, maybe it isn't. The thing is, I don't assume that my story is true, or that I'm right and you're wrong.

[deutsey]

116. That fact that Axelrod is "suggesting" it is disconcerting enough

If Fineman and Stein are feeding us propaganda, it's just icing on Axelrod's turdcake.

[instantkarma]

132. That is not a fact.

"that Axelrod is suggesting it" is only a claim by the two authors. Do you get the difference? The authors are the ones who actually wrote that phrase, "Axelrod suggests" (or whatever form of suggest they used) followed by a bunch of partial quotes which might seem to verify their claim. That doesn't mean that Axelrod actually suggested that. Have you considered that they might be lying? I don't know if they are or not, but I certainly don't assume they're telling the truth. The thing to recognize is the difference between Axelrod suggesting something and the authors claiming Axelrod suggested something. There's a big difference.

[deutsey]

173. Uh huh

:eyes:

And if your interpretation is correct, I would hope Axelrod calls them on it.

I'll be waiting...

[instantkarma]

184. It's about reading comprehension

I'm not making any claim as to whether he actually suggested it or not.

[deutsey]

207. What this might also speak to is the Administration's ham-fisted way of "communicating"

Why is anyone even suggesting such a thing to reporters?

I'm not a DC insider, but I can confidently say that the corporate-owned media in general love to spin and distort, unless they're simply parroting talking points as many of them did under Bush/Rove.

And if Fineman spun in a propagandistic fashion what Axelrod suggested, the Administration should have an effective communication strategy in place that immediately counters that spin.

Just a suggestion on my part, though.

[deutsey]

228. Looks the WH is shooting back, which I'm glad to see

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_morning_plum_129.html

However, I still stand by my point that they seem to have the Keystone Kops doing their communications.

I'm sick of them always crouching in reaction mode, which this WP story illustrates all too well.

[speppin]

137. Axelod's statements speak

loud and clear. The WH has caved.

.....Although the president "took the position he felt was the right position" -- favoring a continuation of the cuts only for families earning up to $250,000 -- Axelrod portrayed this "optimal" stance as unrealistic in the lame-duck Congress that begins next week.

For one, time is not on the administration's side. All of the tax cuts, enacted in 2001 and 2003, will expire at the end of this year unless Congress acts. The Republicans in effect "built in tax increases," Axelrod said. And separating out different categories of tax cuts now -- extending some without extending others -- is politically unrealistic and procedurally difficult, he added.

[instantkarma]

166. Axelrod's actual statements

Assuming that Fineman and Stein are reporting them correctly:

"took the position he felt was the right position"
"optimal"
"built in tax increases"

That's it, at least in the portion of the article you included. How are those two short phrases and one word "loud and clear"?

"...unrealistic in the lame-duck congress..."
"...politically unrealistic and procedurally difficult..."

Those are statements by Fineman and Stein, not Axelrod. There's a difference between what Axelrod said and what they claim he said. There are reasons why some words and phrases are quoted and some aren't.

Axelrod also said "the president's commitments haven't changed." Now maybe they will after Dec. 1, but according to Axelrod they haven't yet.

You believe whatever you want.

[No Elephants]

157. Maybe. I remember a lot of posts like yours about the public option and mandate, though.

My theory. SOMETIMES (not always) when bad news is headed our way from the WH, the WH leaks several times ahead of giving the actual announcement. That way, by the time we learn it for sure, it seems like a "duh."


Kind of like innoculations. you get sicker from the shot than you do when the virus hits you full force.

[instantkarma]

177. Could be.

My whole reason for posting is to point out that this article is making a statement in the title that is later contradicted in the article. The responses are what really bothers me, seeing how so many people just seem to fall for it hook, line and sinker. To me that is very sheep-like, tea-bagger type behavior, just being so ready to swallow any crap thrown out there as long as it provides confirmation to one's belief system.

[Kyad02]

252. Why would I NOT believe it

Obama has caved on everything else. Remember "the robust public option" he preached about right up to the sell out "reform" bill was passed?

[No Elephants]

258. I understood your analysis and it was a good one.

"My whole reason for posting is to point out that this article is making a statement in the title that is later contradicted in the article."

Your posts suggest maybe that was not your whole and only reason. However, I have zero quarrel with good posts, no matter which side the poster is on. To the contrary, I appreciate them. I used to feel I learned so much here.

[mahina]

170. +100

Thank you. It took a while but I do see one rational response, thank God.

[instantkarma]

194. Thanks and you're welcome.

The crap is getting harder and harder to slog through.

[mahina]

299. Like spam in the mailbox, we need a new filter.

If message contains

The President is a p***y +
Huffington Post said he +
It's the end of the world +
We need to primary him OR
I'm leaving the Democratic party =

junk.

[BREMPRO]

237. good catch, thought it sounded fishy

[Oilwellian]

283. Your "summary" is quite flawed

The seventh paragraph quote you referred to saying "the president's commitments haven't changed" was referring to the comments made by the co-chairs of the Cat Food Commission. That quote had nothing to do with ending the Bush tax cuts. I can understand your wish that it were true...that the quote could be attributed to the Bush tax cuts. But it doesn't. If it were true, Axelrod would have demanded a retraction from Fineman and Stein. But he hasn't.

Your subsequent posts throughout this thread have been amusing to say the least, but reality is screaming at you to wake up and realize you can't continue putting lipstick on this pig. We better damn well fight the elites on this one. Leaving our children and grandchildren with additional debts is unconscionable.

[Yeahyeah]

115. Obama's not an agent of change.He is an agent,though.

[katnapped]

123. Sure he's an agent of change!

Making sure your change (and dollars) go rightfully to where they belong!

[democrank]

117. Gee... what a surprise.

[DaDeacon]

119. Can We Try To Fight!!!

Damn!

[DailyGrind51]

127. Did any of us expect him to do anything but cave in? Feingold 2012!

[Yeahyeah]

131. I guess the Republicans must have 60 Senators now.

[Segami]

148. Repukes garnered more leverage as a minority than Dems did holdin a Majority in BOTH houses & the WH

[shireen]

133. may be an exercise in futility, but i wrote to him and requested a response

Dear President Obama,

i read in the Huffington Post today, in an article citing Mr. Axelrod, that you will allow the Bush tax cuts to the very rich to expire. I felt like crying when i saw that. How long is the middle class expected to continue taking the brunt of this economic crisis while the rich continue getting richer?

Please, I am begging you, stand up for the rights of the middle-class and those in poverty. We have a broken government system where too many in Congress are advocates of the super-rich people who keep financing their re-election campaigns.

We have been so distressed by some of the compromises you have made to the right in the last two years. That is the real reason the Republicans have gained the House this year. People who would have voted for Democrats were too discouraged to show up at the polls.

You have a gift for communication. Please use it, and make your case directly to the American people.

Best wishes,
Shireen

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

135. Treating Diarrhea with Prune Juice

That's what this does to liberal activists' apathy.

[mahina]

167. This is unclear- is the liberal activism the diarrhea you speak of

?

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

260. The apathy or so-called enthusiasm gap...

is the malady exacerbated by this 'caving' elixir. Politics or hockey, I want a fight.

[R Hickey]

139. This will send GOLD thru the roof. Glen Beck will be happy.

This tells the world that the US government cannot collect taxes, and is instead watering down its currency.

[Loki]

140. I had hoped we were electing another FDR or Harry S. Truman

but now I see we have elected our Neville Chamberlain. If this is how he expects to inspire my confidence in his Presidency, he's lost me.

[whathehell]

141. Why does he even bother?...Why not just shrug and say "whatever you republicans want"

That's what all of this amounts to...Unbelievably spineless.

[City Lights]

147. Psssst, Mr. President, no matter how many times you cave to them,

republicans will never like you, they'll never support you, and they'll never work with you. The more you cave, the more they'll demand.

You've lost me, Sir.

:-(

[Jed28]

309. Republicans will never like you....

They've already stated their objective is to make sure Obama is a one term President. The more Obama compromises, the further he moves to the right. By trying to find some middle ground with Republicans, Obama only weakens himself. There is no middle ground for Republicans. Republicans aren't going to vote for the Compromiser In Chief. It appears that fewer and fewer Democrats will either.

Here's hoping Obama will show his spine and take a stand.

[Botany]

150. Welcome to President Mike Pence

If you fail to make a stand then you stand for nothing.

The bush tax cuts for the rich is the single biggest driver in the national deficit.

[Owl]

151. I sure hope this is not true. I'd rather not have my puny tax cut if this is the case.

[eringer]

152. Say it ain't so, Joe

The estate tax implications ensure that we will have a two-tiered society for our children. This wont last as long as this country remains free and the people can elect representatives to reverse the Bush tax cuts in the future. That will be a bloody battle, however. Maybe Obama will come to his senses and call the Republican's bluff.

[PSPS]

154. A tiringly familiar headline: "Obama gives in on (insert 'promise' here)"

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RBInMaine]

158. Yeah, but for HOW LONG? They aren't saying this would be PERMANENT. It may just be they are saying

they won't de-couple the tax cuts but will extend both for two years, which is Susan Collins' idea, for example. I don't think we have all the facts here yet.

[indimuse]

162. ok...

DONE!I've tried! Indimuse IZ BACK...Where's Hillary?? :(

[Yeahyeah]

171. WWHD?

Anything different?

[indimuse]

302. gee..

...I WOULD begin with Heath Care! (u know it!) ;)

[No Elephants]

186. Have you looked to the right of Obama--behind the baggage?

(Sorry, I couldn't help it.)

[indimuse]

303. ;)

[harmonicon]

197. who knows...

maybe helping overthrow another Latin American state by giving a free pass to Bush and Reagan cronies. As far as I can tell that's the most substantive thing she's done so far in her position.

[indimuse]

304. ~*FAIL*~

[harmonicon]

332. "fail" doesn't work as a burn when you have no real retort.

Ironic as it may be, your special spangled-fail (as I've just now decided to dub it) is an ultimate example of witty-discourse-fail. Good job.

[Billsmile]

163. Hey Axelrod, I'll pay more if the rich pay more.

The Bush tax cuts are actually a burden on the former middle-class. Let'em all expire.

I'd rather pay more now than to stick my kids with the interest payments on the loan you take out for a giveaway to those who don't need it.

[pecwae]

165. And this is surprising how?

[juajen]

178. I'm not an Obama cheerleader, and, I could be wrong, but

I don't believe Obama will go back on his word on the tax cuts to the wealthy. If he does, he is done for. They are playing a game right now called give, take back, give, take back. We'll see who wins. I honestly don't believe there are many republicans who believe that the rich deserve these tax cuts. They are just so misinformed and only read lightly. Some on here are also guilty of only reading "lightly". The article does not say what the OP implied.

[TBF]

204. It is against the economic interest of most republicans (the ones watching FAUX news) -

but the old-school guys want it, they will benefit, and it will happen. It will be sold as "stimulating the economy".

Really irresponsible to do this along with cutting entitlements and continuing to spend outrageous amounts on defense. But republicans are only responsible in one sense - keeping themselves rich.

[4dsc]

179. Weak leadership at its finest. nt

[The Uncola]

182. Well golly gee, didn't see that one coming.

:sarcasm:

[harmonicon]

187. Not only are they not trying,

they're not even trying to look like they're trying.

[Bosso 63]

191. If this is true, I'm fucking done.

[valerief]

193. FTB. The middle class tax cuts will only help people with jobs.

FTB!!!!!!!

[Blue_Tires]

195. ...

:banghead:

[TBF]

200. Was there ever any doubt that this would happen? nt

[pattmarty]

202. "No balls" Obama. What a huge fucking disappoint he is. Now on...........

.........to the dismantling of SS and privatization of Medicare. Change we can piss on.

[NoodleyAppendage]

203. HOPE! Hope we all realize we've been DUPED.

Obama is NOT getting my vote in 2012. He's NOT the progressive we were falsely sold during the 2008 election. He's a FRAUD. F'em.

[2critical]

205. I'll be surprised if Obama stands against the tax cuts.

He has no spine. There is no will to fight back against the class warfare the rich are waging.

[Javaman]

208. Do these tread marks on my face clash with my shirt?

this is getting exhausting.

Once again our glorious Dems let yet another golden opportunity slip through their fingers.

Thanks guys, way to stab us in the back!

Weeee!

[littlewolf]

211. Ok I am going to say something that will probably

get me banned .... I remember the mod saying we could say critical things about the President ... but here goes ....

I believe one reason that President Obama gave in .... he has shallow roots .. meaning how long has he been in any elective office ...
as soon as he got elected ... he started running for the next one .... so the experience in fighting for something
just isn't there ....

[No Elephants]

249. Not sure if more time would have made a difference.

He spent a good number of years in the Illinois legislature. When the most controversial issues were up for a vote (e.g., a woman's reproductive rights), he usually voted "present" (and sometimes he was physically absent).

Supposedly, voting "present" signalled that someone was working behind the scenes to get a compromise, but I don't recall hearing what compromises he was able to attain after he voted absent. I now suspect it was more about getting himself re-elected--and maybe one day running for President--than it was about masterminding compromises behind the scenes of the Illinois legislature (not that wanting those things is wrong).

Anyhoo, Obama's career in elected office is very comparable to that of Lincoln, whom Obama tried to evoke. (I know, bc I'd make the argument about Lincoln's resume in 2007-2008 whenever anyone said Obama did not have enough experience to be Prez.) Very different approaches, though. They were very different when in legal practice, too. (Lincoln litigated a lot; Obama rarely, if ever.) I think they are just very different people in very different times.

So, as I said, I'm just not sure more time in I the U.S. Senate would have made Obama more of a fighter during his first term as President. I think he would have been playing it safe, as he did in Illinois.

[myrna minx]

219. delete.

:puke:

[Doctor_J]

220. There go the last few Dem voters

the Repukes could pitch a shutout in 2012.

[BREMPRO]

223. "that may be the only way middle class can keep their tax cuts"!? WTF!

what kind of bassackwards negotiation logic is that?! If the wealthy can't have tax cuts, NO_ONE CAN? I hope Axelrod is speaking for himself and not the President, because this is retarded. This is an issue they have support and can win with the public and they are just apparently rolling over? I know the political balance has shifted, but the issue hasn't THEY can and SHOULD hold to principle on this issue, win or lose, or the administration will lose what support they have left. This is a tipping point in my view. THEY NEED TO MAKE A STAND ON PRINCIPLE and FIGHT!! Make it 500,000 if you have too, so "small business" isn't affected. The UBer-wealthy don't NEED tax rates lower, and the budget can't support it. I'd rather NO_ONE return to pre-bush/clinton rates than the top 1% for the sake of the budget and fiscal sanity. remember sanity?

On edit: appears that the poster of this thread did not read or honestly characterize the article. Shame. Axelrod never said they were "giving in on tax cuts" headline. the WH denies that they are "caving" on tax cuts for the wealthy. nothing has changed. Sanity restored.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751

[shawn703]

224. If he does this, he has no political courage

He should take a lesson from Feingold and Grayson, and stand up for what's right even if it will cost him politically. Extending tax cuts for the wealthy is harmful for our nation, especially if to pay for them we have to cut services for those that need them. Let them expire.

[Crunchy Frog]

225. Well, I think I'm just about out.

It's going to take a hell of a lot to get me to fill out the next ballot that comes along, and scaring me about how much worse the Repukes are isn't going to cut it anymore.

[Hissyspit]

226. UPDATE: White House Denies Giving In On Bush Tax Cuts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751

[Name removed]

227. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

336. Just to clarify, the person you're calling "zero" is Obama, right?

Because I remember seeing a similar terminology elsewhere on the Internet, don't remember exactly where, but it was a site with a very nineties-looking layout.

[lonestarnot]

229. Axelrod smaxelrod. Are we going to fuck up a soup samich now? WTF!

Better get on it people. Stop them! We cannot afford even a 2 yr capitulation.

[bullwinkle428]

230. I really don't want to hear another fucking word about how important

"deficit reduction" is from ANYBODY, given how eager all of these assholes are to keep handing over tax cuts to the wealthy on a silver platter! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[global1]

231. Robin Hood - Where Are You When We Need You?......nt

[RBInMaine]

233. Over the top headline, refuted by WH, typical Adrianna oddball rag piece.

[ooglymoogly]

264. Wow nothing on neath that big raincoat.

and nothing big enough to see.

[katandmoon]

234. The suspense is OVAH! Not that there was really ever any doubt about this particular cave-in.

[DainBramaged]

236. THIS IS NOT THE PRESIDENT I VOTED FOR

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

[wizstars]

238. if this happens, count me out in 2012

I'll be voting for a liberal.


a REAL liberal!


:mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad:

[ooglymoogly]

265. count a primary challenge in. nt

[ermasdaughter]

240. RELAX!!!

The White House has already denied this claim: http://voi­ces.washin­gtonpost.c­om/plum-li­ne/2010/11­/the_morni­ng_plum_12­9.html

[ooglymoogly]

268. Denials always go before the fall. Recall history and read between the lines.

too many times we have seen this scenario of righteous denial and fallen for it. A spokesman sends up a trial balloon, a powerful blogger shoots it in the heart and the denials are already written. Then the unthinkable in a haze of a gazillion pages of smoke and mirror nonsense.

[ermasdaughter]

241. RELAX!!!

The White House has already denied this claim: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_morning_plum_129.html

This is just Huf Post doing that "flaming" thing that do. It sickening....

[LatteLibertine]

242. *Sigh*

Looks like we will forever be ruled by wealthy special interests through our government.

Like some others have said, I feel like stepping away permanently. When all the BS and smoke has cleared nothing really changes.

[beforeyoureyes]

243. Why would ANYONE be surprised...he is a corporate rep through and through

I am sure there will be a bunch of comments...'I will wait and see until this becomes law'...as there are everytime he sells us out.

This is so gross.

[ermasdaughter]

246. IT"S NOT TRUE!!! THIS IS HUFFINGTON POST FLAMING!!!

It's already been debunked!
The White House has already denied this claim: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_...
This is just Huf Post doing that "flaming" thing that do. It sickening....

[crim son]

248. Error: Page Not Found. Also, Pox News is reporting it as true:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/11/white-house-downplaying-concessions-upper-income-tax-cuts/

I hope you're right, though.

Nevermind. I found the story at a different link. It doesn't say much but it isn't confirmation of the huffpost story either.

[robcon]

247. Raising taxes during a recession is so wrong.

I think it's a shame we couldn't raise the rates on the wealthiest (why is it 'across-the-board'??????

[dpbrown]

251. I will find it very difficult to support a second term if he rolls over on tax cuts for the rich

I was a delegate to the DNC in Boston, and I have been a member of my state's Democratic Central Committee. I chaired a caucus in my party. I am not flighty.

But I can not support this death by a thousand cuts that this Administration is pushing on us. Rolling over on tax cuts, while considering cuts to Social Security is pretty near the last straw.

[renegade000]

255. I would recommend that everyone write/call/fax

their reps and the white house to express their disapproval on this.

[Kyad02]

257. Compromise is NOT giving in 100%

Raising the limit from 250K to 500K is a compromise. Obama is a fraud. He's bought and paid for by big money interests.

[lumberjack_jeff]

259. Brilliant fucking opening gambit.

In no form of n-dimensional chess, is it prudent to give away your queen as an opening move.

[Turbineguy]

262. I think the smart thing to do

for us is instead of giving money to the various parts of the Democratic party is to spend the money moving to another country. The trick is to pick one that the Republicans are not likely to nuke. What this does is give more rich donors more money to work against Americans.

Axelrod just handed the GOP the keys to the White House and Senate in 2012 and the means to pay for it.

[crikkett]

263. That didn't take long at all!

[tavalon]

267. I'm shocked

The administration decided to give in on a point that they knew the base didn't want. It's becoming a rather typical stance for them. The pertinent question (or impertinent, if you wish) is why?

[glitch]

273. Why is the most important question.

Right now I go back and forth between appeasement and collaboration.
Resistance is out of the question, they haven't shown any from day one.

[urgk]

271. UPDATE: WH denies HuffPo story.

Read the update here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4610751#4610852

[glitch]

275. by Axelrod saying the extension won't be permanent. nt

[The Wizard]

274. The Republican House will impeach him

But because he's the type to cave in and not fight back like Bill Clinton, he'll resign like Nixon.
In the failed presidency of Barack Obama will be remembered as "The Capitulator-in-Chief. "
Nothing more than a Wall Street appeaser.

[inna]

306. "appeaser" I could live with.

It's more than being just an "appeaser"; it's acting directly on Wall Street behalf.

[Urban Prairie]

276. Reagan's win vs Carter in 80 will seem like it was a much closer race than whoever the GOP runs

vs Obama in '12, if the cat-food commission's recommendations are implemented, and the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, are extended, that is, IF he runs for a second term, which at this point I am becoming less and less certain of, since he said that he would rather just be a "good" one term president. For whom has he been really "good" for, may I ask? Ex-POTUS Bush with his slimeball VP Cheney, along with the rest of his criminal administration? YES MOST DEFINITELY!! Certainly not for many of us who voted for him, based on his "hope and esp. change" progressively-dressed up platform!! The hope was a total pipe dream, and the change mostly just the party name in the Oval Office, IMO.

The Tea Party and the most of rest of the conservatives, from day one after his inauguration have despised him and still do. Why they do, other than maybe just because of the color of his skin and having a "D" after his name, I really don't know, because "they" are getting pretty much the same as McCain would have been able to accomplish, esp. with a Dem-majority Congress!! In fact, had McCain won instead there likely would not be a "Tea Party" nor may have the GOP won as many seats as they have in the House this year.

[Love Bug]

282. And the repubs high-five each other over this...

...knowing full well they now have Obama by the short hairs.

[gristy]

289. I left a note on the white house's comments page and then tried to call Mr. Axelrod

Me: Hello, may I please speak with Mr. Axelrod
WH: Name please
Me: gives name
WH: Calling in regard to?
Me: His recent comments regarding tax cuts
WH: Who are you with?
Me: No organization, calling for myself
WH: Mr Axelrod is not available, but maybe I could locate someone in the press office.
Me: Why yes, I would certainly appreciate speaking with Mr. Gibbs
WH: Mr. Gibbs would not be available, but there might be someone there who could take your call.
Me: Please do check.
WH: One moment <20 seconds goes by> No one is in the press office. This is a federal holiday. I could connect you to our comments line.
Me: No thank you. Good bye.

I think I'll try again tomorrow. :)

[Lorien]

290. I wonder if either is ever "available" to average citizens?

Let us know if you talk to anyone tomorrow!

[county worker]

291. Some of the DUers will be believing, that this White House worked hard

to produce a true progressive outcome but was just forced to compromise, as they chow down on their cat food.

[Politicub]

293. Fuck

..

[earcandle]

301. Forget the middle class tax cuts. That is just pennies compared to what the rich get. Stop the

stupidity

[usregimechange]

305. Way to fight for what you believe in, give up before you get into the ring

[L0oniX]

307. Been disappointed so many times that this was expected. I hope he gets primaried out.

I got my own version of what I hope and want changed.

[defendandprotect]

315. I'm with you but not that simple .... TPB are providing the candidates we get to vote for....

on computers --

Pretty much we're fighting the HOUSE now .... like banking on winning in Vegas!

This is all going to take a lot of discussion and action -- and a big, big Plan B!!!

[L0oniX]

325. We're fighting corporations, they are the real enemy.

[defendandprotect]

328. Elites morphed into corporations - same thing -- TPB .....

Corporatism = fascism

We've just been thru one of the greatest financial coup d'etats ever pulled off --

Our total debt since Revolutionary War thru 1990's was 12 Trillion --

in an 18 month period the BAIL OUTS were 12 Trillion!!

Bail outs and sell outs --

WE are being sold out over and again by TPB --

We are not selecting our candidates, they are being selected for us --

pre-bribed and pre-owned --

[Yeahyeah]

308. Obama is a put-up job.

[defendandprotect]

310. What absolute garbage .... how about a RECALL on Obama ...? Unfortunately ....

that would put the corporate Biden in the presidency -- !!!

We need a truly liberal Democratic candidate in 2012!!

[maritzasolito]

311. Just jump in and.................

What a bunch of crap!

[Imagevision]

320. Democrat Republican, its reached the point where it matters no-more...

the "Bilderburg Group" have initiated the New World Order and we're on our way (trust me) Obama is living proof who by the way is a member along with Bush and Bill Clinton.,