Largest solar power plant in Mass. about to start

[SecularMotion]

Source: Associated Press

On land poisoned by toxins from a long-gone manufacturing era, more than 6,500 solar panels face the south sky, capturing the sunlight of a late autumn day in the Berkshire Mountains.

They're ready to deliver power to New England.

The Western Massachusetts Electric Co. site in Pittsfield, New England's largest solar project, promises to produce enough electricity for about 300 homes starting later this month. That's a tiny fraction of what the region needs to run computers, lights, TVs and everything else utility customers take for granted.

But the $9.4 million solar plant and an even larger project planned for Springfield next year are expected to spur job growth in the solar industry and eventually make the cost of solar power competitive with the oil-burning furnaces that are common in New England.

Read more: http://poststar.com/news/state-and-regional/article_4ffa130d-6f09-5415-bac6-ca728cfec1ea.html

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, SecularMotion.

[Agent William]

2. Interesting.

I didn't think that they would be that much sun in New England to make a solar farm viable. In fact I know that solar plants can only really be cost effective in the south. I'm not saying that it's always overcast in Mass, but you need like 300+ days a year of sun. I suspect that the money would be best suited for wind-farm off the cost. Oh well, I quite sure that these solar units are made in the US, one of the few things that is. I should now, I used to drive past the $2billion facility that makes them. :)

[JanusAscending]

3. YAY Pittsfield!!

My old stomping grounds!! I lived there for 20 years, and miss being there in the beautiful Berkshire mountains!

[mzteris]

4. oh noes!!!

It's going to use up all the sunlight and then where will be, huh huh huh???



:sarcasm:


Idiot teabaggers LIKE coal and gas fired sources, doncha know? None of that new-fangled solar or wind-powered - OR BIOMASS FUELED - options!! (see: Walker orders biofuels project stopped at Charter Street plant http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_318223d0-ee1a-11df-b272-001cc4c002e0.html )

[XemaSab]

5. At the cost of $31,300 per home

:o

[SkyDaddy7]

6. We have to start somewhere...

Not sure if you were complaining about the cost or simply pointing it out but I am so sick of hearing people complain about the cost! Folks need to understand the longer we wait the more expensive it will get! I know we are in hard times right now in terms of jobs but if we would get rolling the cost would come down, we could grow the USA solar & wind industries right here in America & create jobs! We also need a smart grid so that we can pump solar power from the desert out west to where ever it is needed & the same goes for wind farms in the midwest.

We will have to eventually do all of it and the longer we wait or claim it cost too much the deeper the hole we will be in...Or we can just keep killing folks in coal mines or chopping the tops off all the mountains looking for coal...And continue polluting the water table across the country fracking for natural gas...

...After all coal & gas is so cheap you don't even have to worry what it cost per house! It is basically pure profit! AND WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO BE THE WORLD LEADERS IN ALTERNATIVE ENERGIES & WE ARE NOT THAT SHORT ON JOBS TO WANT TO CREATE NEW INDUSTRIES RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA...I mean 90% of Americans have jobs! Seriously, all this alternative energy talk is just that crazy Obama being Obama.

We will never change...And China will own all the Alt. Energy industries.

But we will still have tons of coal, gas & of course JESUS!

I get sick thinking about our future.

[OnlinePoker]

9. "...the longer we wait the more expensive it will get!"

We keep getting told here how advances in technology are dropping the price of solar. This means the longer we wait, the CHEAPER it will get.

As for you're saying 90% of Americans have jobs...try 58% of the non-institutional working age population (238 million population, 139 million employed). They claim that 85 million are out of the labor force and only 1.2 million are discouraged. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm

[SkyDaddy7]

12. 90% of Americans having jobs was...

SARCASM!!!

And NO, the longer we wait the more expensive it will get to convert over especially if we have to buy all our stuff from China! And all the jobs that could have been will be in China! The cost will be much larger in so many ways the longer we wait! Jobs, the Environment & Money!

Seriously, I can't believe so many folks think we Americans can just sit by and everything will come to us...After all we are god's chosen country, huh?

The Right Wing in this country has way too many people thinking Americans do not have to sacrifice anything to move forward. I guess that is what the past 30 years or so has done to the minds of most Americans? No one wants to come to the realization that we have been living a false way of life and that is all going to end whether we like it or not!

We are spoiled & we are going to get one hell of an attitude adjustment very soon!

[naaman fletcher]

14. we dont' have to start anywhere..

solar in Ma. does not work. this is a waste of money.

[daleo]

19. The canals of the 1800s

The train system of the 1800s, the airports od the 20th century, the interstate, satellites, the internet...

All sorts of innovations that we take for granted were heavily subsidized at first.

[naaman fletcher]

20. of course,

but, I have looked into this quite a bit because I have thought about putting in my own system, and its a stretch for me and I live in Oklahoma. Doing it in MA. is simply a waste of money, and the waste of money will color people against it later. yes, let's subsidize it, but do it in OK, TX, and the southwest.

[daleo]

27. It works better with greater solar insolation, of course

But not everywhere in the world has that advantage. Germany has developed quite a bit of solar, for example, and it's hardly tropical.

Germany is one of the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installers, with a solar PV capacity in 2009 of 8,877 megawatts (MW), and 6,200 GWh of electricity generated in 2009.<1> Solar power now meets about 1.1 percent of Germany's electricity demand, a share that some market analysts expect could reach 25 percent by 2050.<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany

[Tesha]

22. Do you have any proof for that claim? (NT)

[Demeter]

25. Solar Effectiveness in Mass. was demonstrated IN THE 70's

when solar cells were a lot more costly. The facts override your opinion.

[activa8tr]

39. There's other factors to consider. You are partially right, but mostly

wrong. The sun in Mass is lower in the sky more days a year than in FL or CA or AZ or other southern areas, true.

The benefit in terms of number of hours of actual production of electricity is less, true.

It is true, that a small to average house would spend lots of money and see little benefit, if done individually.

And true, the return on investment happens much quicker in Arizona than in Massachusetts. But the return is there in both locations, because the sunlight produces electricity in both places, just less in Mass than in southern locations.

But combining resources on projects with several hundreds to thousands of homes, schools, hospitals and other large consuming entities, using solar AND WIND in projects in major urban areas does defray significant costs of fossil fuel acquisition for a number of years in the future, when a break even point is reached, and savings begin to accrue.

[jpak]

45. Solar works quite well in Mass. and Maine and NH and Vermont - you don't know what U R talking about

series

[social_critic]

21. I don't "need to understand"

It doesn't take a genius to understand this solar power is a gimmick. It costs too much. It makes more sense to use efficiency to reduce power consumption, change the way we build houses, lower the thermostat, and if we have to build smaller houses while we get a more efficient and cost effective replacement for fossil fuels. Solar power like this isn't worth it, it's just a show.

[Demeter]

26. The Difference Between Power Generation and Reducing Power Consumption

is like the difference between growing food and going on a diet.

Sooner or later, you are going to need to eat. Probably sooner.

[XemaSab]

28. Not really

If we're going to use a food metaphor, it's more like a fat man who eats 10 lbs of pizza and hamburgers a day deciding to replace a pound of pizza with a pound of salad versus deciding to only down 9 lbs of pizza and hamburgers a day without the salad.

Ideally the fat man will down a pound of salad AND only eat 9 lbs of food total. Right now we're still eating the 10 lbs of hamburgers and pizza and calling the tomatoes a "salad."

[Demeter]

37. When the grid goes down, you will remember this exchange

and you won't be able to say you weren't warned.

[jpak]

44. Here's dollars metaphor - new US nuclear capacity is estimated to cost $8-10,000 per kW

and that does not include fuel, O&M, decommissioning and spent fuel disposal.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20101026/ARTICLES/101029590

This solar project is $5500 per kW - the fuel is free, there is no waste to dispose and O&M means washing them occasionally.

metaphor that

[sofa king]

42. I think it's more fair to view this as a land reclamation project.

Left to itself, this property is less than useless. It's toxic and likely needs to be managed anyway to prevent it from poisoning surrounding areas. The cleanup costs are probably prohibitive. It probably doesn't generate any revenue, maybe not even property taxes.

But if you can turn the area into a net energy producer for the thirty or so years it takes to pay off the solar installation, the toxins have time to degrade some, cleanup measures have time to mature and become less expensive, inexpensive long-term cleanup solutions can be applied, and the money and energy required to reclaim the land is defrayed if not recouped. The solar facility might make the land a generator of tax revenue, as well, which it probably isn't now.

The weight of its contribution to the Commonwealth's energy needs matters much less than the fact that there is a contribution coming from land which was previously a serious liability to the Commonwealth.

[wysi]

43. Indeed...

... there are huge tracts of land in Pittsfield that cannot be used for dwellings/shops etc. due to contamination. This is a very good use of this land.

Born and raised in Pittsfield MA (my family is still there)... I'm very pleased to see this initiative. :)

[jpak]

11. And the cost of peak natural gas in ISO NE over the next 25 years is??????

your math sucks

yup

[Gore1FL]

30. How much does a coal, Oil, or Gas plant cost per home? n/t

[activa8tr]

38. A small home in Mass averages well over $165 per month in gas and electric

usage. Within 20 years, that cost would easily double, but even at current rates, in 20 years, one would pay more than $31,000 for power from gas and electric. About $2000 a year, or $40,000 in 20 years.

If one could use HALF the power from fossil fuel sources, (given inflation on those sources) and half from solar, , it would come out about even. At two thirds from solar, and reducing consumption with low wattage devices, and one would come out ahead.

[davidwparker]

7. Good for them. Glad to read something like that was

taking place within our borders.

[Overseas]

8. Yaaaay!! K&R! //nt

[cachukis]

10. Another step.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

13. Why didn't we do it here in the Souther California desert?

Sure, we've got a couple of solar projects that are going to begin construction soon, but given our abundance of sunlight and our lower latitude -- not to mention the availability of open land which is not set aside for preservation -- we should be leading the nation in solar energy development and production.

[XemaSab]

16. Transmission losses between here and Mass

would be brutal.

If they want "renewable" energy, they need to do it there.

[OnlinePoker]

18. Probably because this would happen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x265042

[ProudDad]

32. Bullshit... (n/t)

[ProudDad]

31. Here in bat-shit crazy Arizona

Southern Arizona is OWNED by King Coal... :puke:

[cmd]

15. Ohio is getting a huge solar farm

Ironically on top of reclaimed strip mined fields in Muskingum Co. Solar technology has come a long way and is feasible in Ohio and Mass. even on cloudy days. Thank you, Blue Dog Democrat Zack Space, for making this possible. It's too bad the backwoodsies around here voted against you.

[sarcasmo]

17. Good news in a month of bad news.

[FailureToCommunicate]

23. the Lone Star State does it again: from our very own star: the sun.

Well done folks of Pittsfield. Enjoy your lower bills...

[XemaSab]

24. How are their bills going to be lower?

This thing needs to be paid off.

[kristopher]

29. Why don't you go ahead and get it over with?

Tell everyone how much better off they would be with 10,000 new, nice-n-toasty nuclear power plants. That's what you really want to say, right?

[XemaSab]

35. That's totally not what I was thinking

I was thinking that for that kind of money you could do rooftop solar and work towards decentralizing the grid.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FailureToCommunicate]

41. Of course rooftop solar and decentralizing the grid is worthwhile

but it seems like ANY effort -even big show projects like this- are better than the present Big Oil, Republican Legacy disaster course...

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

33. K&R ---

[laughingliberal]

34. K & R nt

[lonestarnot]

40. most excellent.