Proof of Extra Dimensions Possible Next Year: CERN

[LongTomH]

Source: ABC News

GENEVA (Reuters) - Scientists at the CERN research center say their "Big Bang" project is going beyond all expectations and the first proof of the existence of dimensions beyond the known four could emerge next year.

In surveys of results of nearly 8 months of experiments in their Large Hadron Collider (LHC), they also say they may be able to determine by the end of 2011 whether the mystery Higgs particle, or boson, exists.

Guido Tonelli, spokesman for one of the CERN specialist teams monitoring operations in the vast, subterranean LHC, said probing for extra dimensions -- besides length, breadth, height and time -- would become easier as the energy of the proton collisions in it is increased in 2011.

Other CERN physicists say the success so far of the world's largest scientific project suggests that some great enigmas of the universe they have in their sights could be at least partly resolved much sooner than they thought.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wirestory?id=12152908&page=1

---

The article missed one important point: The LHC is now running with heavy lead ions.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. I hope my other dimensional self is faring better.

:cry:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

38. No shit.

I'm thinking my ugly, evil twin is actually me!

Edited: after reading further down I realize my incredibly humorous quip was relayed 4 or 5 times already in this thread. Now I'm f'n positive I'm the lackey, mentally-challenged, ugly evil twin. :9

[femrap]

43. Maybe the other dimension

isn't Dumfukistan....and I can be happy for a change.

Please take me to the other Dimension.

[Javaman]

87. of course your other self is doing better, your other self enjoyed

an wonderful life under President Gore.

My question is: once discovered, how do we get there?

[happygoluckytoyou]

91. yeah heh heh but did you see my new book "really tough decisionerating"

[Vogon_Glory]

2. This Dimension Is The One Where They Set Dystopian Fiction

This dimension is the one where they set distopian fiction.

I wonder how that other America fared where the Republican comeback was stopped dead in its tracks in 1998 and US President Al Gore had two terms in office?

[YOY]

4. You mean the Far Right Republican insurgency 1980 was halted in its tracks.

Before the "Reagan Democrats" could corporate up the party.

[Ian David]

22. There's gotta be an alternate dimension where Michael Moore is governor of Michigan. n/t

[Cheap_Trick]

3. Since I have a goatee, I must assume I am the evil counterpart

and my good self is over there....

[RKP5637]

LOL!!! n/t

[Xipe Totec]

5. Shut up, Flexo, we all know Bender is the evil one. nt

[harvey007]

6. Don't hold your breath

Scientists still haven't fulfilled their promises to find cures for cancer and obesity.

It's all just big talk to get more money.

[cliffordu]

8. IN my other demension I am rich as Midas.

I'll write 'em a check....j

[alfredo]

28. And they found a cure for butt pimples.

[cliffordu]

32. Did I fuck you once??

I HAVE butt pimples.

Great big ones, big as the Hadron Collider.

[alfredo]

34. Naw, I went Army instead of Navy.

[cliffordu]

81. I was army, too....

How did you know about the butt pimples???

WHO ARE YOU REALLY? ARE YOU MY EX WIFE?????]
GONNA TALK ABOUT MY OTHER 'INADEQUACY' NEXT???


:rofl:

[alfredo]

95. At least you're not a Swabbie.

[superduperfarleft]

15. .

[WildEyedLiberal]

68. Hahahahahhaah plus one brazillion

:rofl:

[Ian David]

21. Maybe they've cured obesity and cancer in Flatland. n/t

[SkyDaddy7]

25. The major cure for obesity in most people is...

STOP EATING JUNK FOOD IN BULK!

[Cleobulus]

35. What promises? I don't remember them making promises about shit...

people place really unrealistic expectations on scientists, even going so far as to place obligations on scientists whose fields don't even apply to the problem at hand, like you just did.

[trud]

40. big talk

I guess you aren't a fan of the Polio vaccine. And there is a cure for obesity, namely don't overeat.

[Chulanowa]

72. Welcome to DU

We still have a strong luddite contingent out here. "My great-great-grandpa didn't need no measles vaccine, and I shore don't neither!"

[Posteritatis]

62. Because particle physicists and medical researchers are both exactly the same thing

It depresses me that people are still consciously ignorant enough to talk about "scientists" as a monolith. Whole lot of people have to fail someone for them to get to voting age holding that broken, incorrect mindset.

[kohodog]

70. Not that different from artists either

imho

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

109. Or the common cold or an itch on your back just out of reach.

:grr:

[Lance_Boyle]

7. CERN - hard at work on Obama's chess game? n/t

[Joanne98]

9. WOW

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

10. I wonder if my evil self in the other dimension is actually capable of

growing a goatee.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. I think someone stole me from one of the other dimensions.

[DainBramaged]

12. Uh are we collecting admissions at the dimensional door? How long is the waiting line?

:shrug:

[jberryhill]

13. Better than the Fifth Dimension?

[kimmerspixelated]

30. When the moon is in the seventh house...

[Javaman]

103. You will wear really funkie striped pants...nt

[donco]

14. I wonder if they are

hiring in any of the other dimensions?

[Yavapai]

16. String theory - the dreams that stuff is made of.

[Hissyspit]

17. M Theory - the stuff that stuff is made of?

[Poll_Blind]

18. I'm still out on whether Ed Witten is maybe a genius beyond the word or...

...an unwitting but willing tool in propagating what could possibly be the greatest scientific collective delusion ever known.

And really, I have no idea which it is. I'm always leaning toward Ed's side and String/M theory but...

PB

[SkyDaddy7]

26. I think he is a genius...

To be honest I do not understand any of it but I have read books that gloss over it and I hope he is correct! I would love to see it become a theory that goes beyond math.

Correct me if I am wrong in what I said but that is how I understand it...It does wonderful things on paper but so far we lack the ability to test it's predictions in the lab?

[Poll_Blind]

29. From my understanding, it is very difficult to test some of these things out although...

...(as I have read) the underlying math "supports" it. Let's face it, though, a lot of these people are geniuses and a person like Ed Whitten arguably a unique genius. However, that does not necessarily mean they are correct.

I gotta tell you though, the reality and even commercial exploitation of entangled particles is like being in a room into which someone throws a flashbang grenade: Afterward I'm dazed enough to believe just about anything.

Quantum entanglement

Nowdays when I read that the whole Universe may be 2D and that reality is a holographic projection of that I don't even flinch.

:rofl:

PB

[eridani]

63. Not to worry. Even the 500 or so of us out of 6 billion on the planet

--who can do the math can't do the math. At least that seems to be what inability to merge the various versions of string theory means.

[SkyDaddy7]

110. Tell me if you understand this...

I have a friend (Well me and him kinda had a fallen out not long after this was published I will explain later) who is finishing up his phd in physics at the University of Colorado...Tell me if you have any idea what his paper is about. I think he is working on something to do with quantum computing but I could be wrong. Like I said before I have a degree in Political Science & never went beyond basic college entry math. So, I have NO CLUE what this is about.

I thought you might like to look this over...I know getting published is a huge deal especially in the Physics Review Letters. I was very happy for him but we butt heads over something that kinda shocks me.

To see the paper click PDF in the top right.

His name is Michael Shane Allman...I think it is labeled M.S. Allman

When you reply I want to tell you why we had our fallen out...I was very surprised & maybe you can shed some light on it for me.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0816

[eridani]

114. I don't get it either. Chemists don't dip down to quantum level

This is applied rather than mathematical physics--the authors are testing some predictions of quantum physics, which is different than string theory. Haven't a clue as to whether or not they succeeded.

[SkyDaddy7]

115. Thanks...I thought I would ask anyway.

I guess there are very few folks who know both, huh? Quantum & String?

[eridani]

116. Try Brian Greene

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elegant_Universe

He's one of very few mathematical physicists who can talk to everyone else without simplifying in the wrong directions.

[aquart]

31. String theory makes me happy. It just does.

[donquijoterocket]

36. you think

it makes you happy? Consider cats,ever watched a cat just sit, perhaps in a corner or elsewhere just looking up? I'm convinced they've either got a species-wide game of madejyalook going or they can see the tag ends of superstrings dangling into our dimension.Regardless this news is exciting.

[aquart]

93. I have a cat. Most cats aren't up for string theory.

One or two but not most. Had one who worshipped light who could calculate trajectories but most prefer not to go there.

[juajen]

39. Yeah, me too. Where ya been hidin'?

All's right with the world when you're in it.

[aquart]

94. I don't usually get compliments.

It's NICE. Occasionally I get frustration overload. When I want to be Red Queen and yell "Off with their heads!" with real sincerity. It hurts when I'm not obeyed.

[Odin2005]

112. Witten is the greatest mind in physics since Einstein, IMO.

That guy is so brilliant it's frightening. And the folks coming up behind him, like Lisa Randall and Nima Arkani-Hamed are awesome, too.

[gaijinlaw]

24. If I only had a brane n/t

[rhett o rick]

20. I am working hard on the Vodka Theory. I am sure I found a couple extra dimensions last night. nm

[juajen]

41. Yeah, maybe in some of those dimensions aging just doesn't

happen. WOW, would that make me happy or what?

[kohodog]

71. Is your avatar an African Grey?

Amazing birds.

[ProudDad]

19. You mean beyond length, width, depth and ooops? (n/t)

[messiah]

23. High level Meditators have known this

for millenniums.
The secret of the universe has always been within the human body.

[liberation]

66. There is a biiiiig difference between "believing" and "knowing..."

Proof, as they say, is in the pudding not in the meditation.

[leahcim]

78. and an even bigger difference between...

..."knowing", and "talking jibberish and then after a major scientific discovery is made trying to pretend that that's what your jibberish meant all along".

[herbm]

27. One manifestation, one vote!

[high density]

33. All they need to do is turn on Fox News

There is an extra dimension for ya.

[Harry Monroe]

89. So, ignorance is an extra dimension?

[derby378]

37. Woo-hoo! Science, bitches!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_JZ6K-mHQ

:headbang:

[femrap]

45. Please refer

to us a female dogs, dude.

Cern will put you in one bad ass black hole.:evilgrin:

[derby378]

47. Hopefully you at least enjoyed the video

That's what happens when I have too much time on my hands.

I need employment bad.

[femrap]

76. Not that much....

say hi to the widdle puppy in your town....W.

I still have doubts that this is a 'progressive' board.....I'm hoping you dudes down there secede and I can enjoy a tad of freedom before I die...which I hope is soon.

[derby378]

82. Geez Louise...

We Texans have tried independence before. We had our fun. But we suck at independence. Texas works much better as a state than as a republic, and I don't give a rat's butt that "Chicken" Rick Perry would say anything different.

As for Herr Decider, there's not much I can do about his choice of residence. Unless I throw shoes on his front lawn, at which point Secret Service agents will have something to say about that.

[femrap]

106. Not even place a

worn-out pair of flip flips on the lawn? A small token of your survival of his 8 year regime of terror on the world.

[EOTE]

61. Awesome video!

The LHC is truly one of man's greatest creations.

[derby378]

67. Thank you!

But I should in turn thank CERN for the visuals and Dimmu Borgir for the music. :hi:

[AlbertCat]

100. But I should in turn thank.... Dimmu Borgir for the music

Please don't!

[EOTE]

105. I had never heard of them before.

But I must admit their music is a good match for the grandeur that is the LHC. With man creating life from its very basic materials to the incredible experiments done with the LHC, 2010 is turning out to be an incredible year for science indeed.

[Codeine]

73. Demon Burger on DU!

w00t!

[Better Believe It]

42. Thanks for the interesting article. Recommend

[Mosaic]

44. Time travel

So I imagine after we understand the 11 or 12 dimensions time travel will be possible. Or maybe it's just impossible since there is no evidence of a time traveler ever.

[Hardrada]

53. We don't know if time has been changed or not since we

only know the present reality.

[BadgerKid]

55. Technically speaking, time travel into the future is possible. n/t

[Blandocyte]

99. We've been telling you that you are a time traveller

but you, Mr. Time Traveller, keep going back in time to points before we told you. How many times are we going to have to do this?

[On the Road]

46. Is the Proof of Extra Dimensions

related to string theory? It's impossible to tell from these dumbed-down articles.

Not so long ago, some people saw string theory as more of a religion than a scientific theory since it was not subject to experimental proof or disproof. And yet here we are.

[leahcim]

85. not necessarily

You can have extra dimensions without string theory.

Think of the surface of a cylinder. It has two dimensions, roughly "along the length of the cylinder", and "around the circumference of the cylinder". Now suppose the diameter of the cylinder is very, very small compared to its length, like a foot long but only a thousandth of an inch around, and what's more your eyesight isn't all that good so the whole thing looks a little fuzzy. In that case you can easily see one of the dimensions (the one along the the length of the cylinder) but it's very hard to distinguish the second dimension (the one around the circumference cylinder) because it's tiny. For most purposes you could treat the cylinder as a one-dimensional object and get away with it. You can describe points on the cylinder only by their position along the length because where they are around the circumference is such a small correction to that.

The "extra dimensions" posited are like that. The universe has four "big" dimensions, and 6-8 "small" dimensions that we can't really see clearly because we and all our tools are so much bigger than they are (this is a scale at which atoms look huge). Hence the big and complicated machinery to create situations in which their presence or absence has an effect.

[On the Road]

104. Thank You

Are other dimensions incorporated, or able to be incorporated, into the standard model? Are there variants which depend on additional dimensions? I had always heard them associated with string theory.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. This is so damn cool

String Theory might be proven now, if I am getting the Particle Physics right.

I dabble in the stuff... not an expert.

[sam sarrha]

49. so what happens if they turn it up too high and a Neutron expands to the size of Jupitor..!!

:shrug: :eyes: :crazy: :freak: :wow: :hide: :nuke:

[Orrex]

50. I'm just burning, doing the Neutron Dance

[Chulanowa]

74. I don't know!

And I'll bet if it happens... I still won't know! :rofl:

[kestrel91316]

51. In some of those other dimensions, I am pretty sure the proof is already in.

[sam sarrha]

52. i have been into Subspace... it would be best to practice meditation a couple decades and get some

really dark sun glasses.. oh.. there is no up down right or left there.. and no duality of subject and object..

i didn't stay long but it changed my life

[hughee99]

54. This will do wonders for the "multi-dimensional chess" we've been seeing lately. n/t

[Bonobo]

56. If there were no extra dimensions, how could you explain quantum entanglement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

------------
Quantum entanglement, also called the quantum non-local connection, is a property of certain states of a quantum system containing two or more distinct objects, in which the information describing the objects is inextricably linked such that performing a measurement on one immediately alters properties of the other, even when separated at arbitrary distances. Specifically, such a system is said to be in an entangled state if it cannot be written as the tensor product of its constituent subsystems. This discovery posed a serious conceptual challenge to physicists of the day, because faster-than-light influences were assumed to be prohibited by special relativity. In that framework, it was thought superluminal effects would lead to causal contradictions because a change of reference frame can reverse the order of the events. It is now understood that while these nonlocal correlations do occur, they cannot be used to transmit information and thus do not violate causality. Entanglement, which was a recognized consequence of the mathematical formulation of quantum mechanics during its inception, eventually stimulated the discovery of the EPR paradox by Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen in 1935. This thought experiment, while drawing an incorrect conclusion, helped elucidate the relationship between relativity and quantum theory, and set the stage for John S. Bell to finally resolve the contradiction in 1964 through Bell's theorem. Entanglement has since been verified by a series of experiments beginning in 1972 by Stuart Freedman and John Clauser<1>.

[Confusious]

86. Wrong phone number via quantum entanglement?

It is now understood that while these nonlocal correlations do occur, they cannot be used to transmit information and thus do not violate causality.

[MellowDem]

57. This is all setting up for 2012 end of the world!

;)

[yurbud]

58. it's hard enough reaching the spot in the middle of my back with a scrub brush...

Now I'll have to reach into another dimension?

[abelenkpe]

59. Meanwhile in the USA

many work to take us back in time.

sigh....

[stevedeshazer]

75. +1

Nice one.

[AlbertCat]

101. Meanwhile in the USA

HOW CAN THERE BE OTHER DIMENSIONS IF THERE ARE STILL MONKEYS?????

[yurbud]

60. TSA screeners will have to wear gloves to grope us in the extra dimension.

[florida08]

64. well that explains where the radical wingnuts are coming from

Some dimension hopper is substituting their crazy rightwingers for our normal ones..no wait..that's the teabaggers doing that

[rurallib]

65. So, uh, I can hardly wait to hear Beckerhead explain this one

or see Boner stand on the House floor and cry about how string theory is a socialist communist, fascist plot to put the gummint in charge of shoelaces.
Spose Boner is green in the 10th dimension. Or maybe we got the reject?

[flyingfysh]

69. this will explain a great mystery

where do all the lost socks go?

[stevedeshazer]

77. And so it starts: Election 2012.

An ever-expanding Republican universe full of lobbyists, more lobbyists, astroturf groups like Freedom Works, and presidential hopefuls such as Chris Christie, who actually can be seen from space.

This dimensional thing is just totally out of control.

:)

Seriously, all kidding aside this is incredible and thanks for posting it.

[joshcryer]

79. And when it's not ... String Theorists will move the goalposts again.

[dogknob]

80. The lead ions are mentioned on page 2 n/t

[drm604]

83. Very cool video explaining the LHC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0qlWKaKNg&feature=related

[tonekat]

84. So, in an Alternate Dimension

Does Mitch "Mushmouth" McConnell actually speak distinctly and make sense?

[Grown2Hate]

88. Either everyone is confusing alternate universes (universii?) with extra dimensions,

or else my "sense of humor" module is malfunctioning. I lean toward the latter. Also, "If I only had a brane"! hahaha Ah, science humor. The GOOD stuff. :) Is that a Higgs Boson in your pocket, or are you just happy to have mass? ::crickets:: Yeah, definitely a faulty sense of humor module. Damn.

[amyrose2712]

90. Nerds.

HEHEH! I love nerds!:silly:

[The Doctor.]

97. Some deliberately, some not.

In some cases an explanation will get you a Planck stare. :rimshot:

And yes, it would be 'universes', I believe. Even though the word itself is kind of paradoxical.

[AsahinaKimi]

92. oh my!

[Grown2Hate]

98. Everyone remembers their first Doctor. :)

(Tom Baker, for the record.)

[elana i am]

96. i'll be damned.

they may be able to prove string theory is for real.

[Javaman]

102. Personally, I welcome our extra dimensional overlords. nt

[fascisthunter]

107. alternate dimensions=afterlife.... hmmmmm

the possibilities truly are endless. I'm happy knowing I had one chance and only one chance to appreciate my existence. If by chance there is something to there being an afterlife, even better!

Besides, I miss watching football with my Dad.

[ikri]

108. Time to buy stocks in crowbar manufacturers

[Dark]

111. Maybe we'll finally find a dimension in which conservative policies actually work!

Perhaps they were on to something lol...

/yes, I know that's not what dimension means.
//This is still freaking awesome.

[Odin2005]

113. Lee Smolin and other M-Theory bashers can go sod off!

[KansDem]

117. What would be the shape or form of these "other dimensions?"

Beyond height, depth, length, and time, what's left?

Could there be dimensions that exist along with this one and we are unable to see? Could this dimension and the other dimension(s) be packed with matter and energy that are not related? In other words, if a block of space were examined, would it contain particles arranged so:


...where the red particles would be one 4-D dimension, the blue particles would be another 4-D dimension, the green particles and the white particles would be two more 4-D dimensions. But those who live in one 4-D dimension would not be aware of the other three (in this case)

Or, like this:


For example, our dimension could be the white one with other dimensions represented by other color particles.

And if this were the case, would the dimensions be equidistant within each other: Or could they have different patterns, from tightly compacted to spread out...and could the time run at different rates?

I'd really like to know...