L.A. County Passes Sweeping Ban on Plastic Bags

[Hissyspit]

Source: Los Angeles Times

L.A. County passes sweeping ban on plastic bags
November 16, 2010 | 12:46 pm
Enacting one of the nation's most aggressive environmental measures, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted Tuesday to ban plastic grocery bags in unincorporated areas of the county.

The vote was 3-1, supported by Supervisors Gloria Molina, Mark Ridley-Thomas, and Zev Yaroslavsky, and opposed by Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich. Supervisor Don Knabe was absent.

The ban, which will cover nearly 1.1 million residents countywide, is to the point: “No store shall provide to any customer a plastic carryout bag.” An exception would be made for plastic bags that are used to hold fruit, vegetables or raw meat in order to prevent contamination with other grocery items.

If grocers choose to offer paper bags, they must sell them for 10 cents each, according to the ordinance. The revenue will be retained by the stores to purchase the paper bags and educate customers about the law. “Plastic bags are a pollutant. They pollute the urban landscape. They are what we call in our county urban tumbleweed,” Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky said.

Mark Gold, president of the Santa Monica environmental group Heal the Bay, said previous county efforts to promote recycling of plastic bags at grocery stores was a failure. “You cannot recycle your way out of the plastic bag problem,” Gold said. “The cost of convenience can no longer be at the expense of the environment.”

Read more: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/la-county-passes-sweeping-ban-on-plastic-bags.html

[kestrel91316]

1. I long for the day when the CITY of Los Angeles does the same.

The damned things are a horrible plague. Sepulveda Basin wildlife area is just packed with them.

[gateley]

2. I'm ashamed that Seattle, a 'leader' in environmental actions, has yet to do this. It

was voted down recently.

Look at the counter on this site:

www.reuseit.com

Kudos to LA County! Mother Earth thanks you! :yourock:

[happygoluckytoyou]

3. and heaven help SUN CHIPS who gave up on "green" bags because "they crinkle too loudly"

[Retrograde]

35. Yeah. Right.

I have a sneaking little suspicion that the green bags were slightly more expensive than the other ones. If they could save a little by using the green bags they would have stuck with them.

BTW, my city banned plastic bags last year. Unfortunately the surrounding cities haven't yet.

[CreekDog]

80. but Sun Chips makes those same bags available in Canada still

so, I'm not sure your theory still holds.

[slackmaster]

4. It's a shame that so many people aren't willing or able to use those bags responsibly

They're great for sanitary reasons, don't require much oil to make, and can be fully recycled if people would only bother to do so.

I accumulate them whenever possible to be re-used for animal waste cleanup.

[mnhtnbb]

12. Me, too. Why pay for plastic bags to pick up dog poop? Or scoop kitty litter?

[Ginto]

5. Sounds like this will be a regressive tax on the poor.

By the store bag at inflated prices and remember to bring it each time or:

"If grocers choose to offer paper bags, they must sell them for 10 cents each"

[LanternWaste]

14. Reusable totes are getting much less expensive...

Reusable totes are getting much less expensive, and with five minutes of internet searching, I found seven organizations in my own county distributing free reusable bags.

Seems to me that if one were so inclined, taking a few reusable totes into the grocery store would nullify any additional charges.

Win-win-win.

[Ginto]

15. For people without cars it is difficult.

And usually you have to have a branded bag for each store. Probably to prevent shoplifting to some extent. Generally, I see the reusable bags for 4 or 5$. Not much to most people, but to the poor that can mean not getting to eat for a day.

[soleiri]

19. I haven't found that at all.

I take my Trader Joe's bags to the regular grocery store all the time.
As well as the bags from the grocery store to Trader Joe's.
I have about a dozen or so re-usable bags and I've never paid over 4 dollars, most I've gotten for less than $2.
I also have found that they are much easier to carry on the bus than regular plastic bags.
They are stronger, and hold more in them and they are far more comfortable to carry.
Also, most stores carry reusable bags for 99 cents around here.

[Ginto]

43. You must have an honest face. nt

[cyr330]

30. I don't have a car

And I have no problems with it. I'm certainly NOT a rich person either. It's added fucking pennies to my bills, and I certainly can't argue about that.

[Ginto]

44. If pennies don't matter then your not the kind of person I was addressing. nt

[cyr330]

59. It really costs NOTHING

I have hundreds of safeway plastic bags I keep under my sink, and I reuse them. Otherwise, i would use the paper bags that safeway uses, or I would buy a reusable bag from the market.

Anybody can afford this, and it's so good for the environment that any argument is really moot. ANYTHING we need to do is going to take some effort, and we can't allow this to get in the way of doing the right thing.

[Ginto]

60. Then the stores can give bags away for free.

Like Walmart.

[cyr330]

62. There's no Wal-Mart in San Francisco

thank god.

[Ginto]

63. Also a very high average income so this policy shouldn't be a problem.

The brown people that inhabited the area pre-60's have long since felt the effects of gentrification. I do love that city(THE FOOD, mmm), but I recognize some of it's issues.

[CreekDog]

64. I think you're peddling misinformation in the name of worrying about the poor

but it seems like you are more worried that plastic bags won't be available for free any longer (yet there are free alternatives).

now, it would be one thing if what you were saying in support of your arguments was true --but it's verifiably false. the whole lot of it:

1) the part about bags being four dollars or more
2) the part about not being allowed to put your purchased items into the bag of your choice (well the way you stated it was insidiously misleading --but everyone caught on to that)

[Ginto]

66. I actually use paper bags where I do most of my shopping.

Great for cooling fried chicken in and soaking up excess oil.

You are the one peddling misinformation. For a family with a couple of kids who buy tons of groceries and need multiple bags this will be a burden. I like the suggestion down the thread a bit to maybe offer a discount for using the bags which would eventually make up for their cost.

[CreekDog]

67. We've pointed out your misinformation --exaggerating the costs of bags

and then saying you had to buy them from each store to use them there.

these are blatant falsehoods, designed to undermine and scare people. it's quite insidious.

in response you've said that i am misleading in saying it's not a burden on poor people --you know what makes you so sneaky?

i never said that or anything like it. i pointed out a falsehood you said and not only do you not defend what is verifiably untrue in your statement --you attack me by accusing me of a straw man i never put out there.

what's going on here?

be more clever next time.

[Ginto]

68. And this is a blatant regressive tax on the poor.

The fact that you won't admit that, and that there have been better suggestions that you refuse to address suggest to me and to others that you don't really care as long as it suits you.

I made it fairly clear that I support reusable bags. What I don't support is .10 being charged for paper bags or not offering shoppers free totes. Other suggestions that I like are discounts for using totes and the option for multiple free totes with a certain purchase amount

For a little more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_shopping_bag

[CreekDog]

72. why necessary to mislead about cost of resusables & need to buy them at each store?

if your point was just the regressiveness?

you want them free, fine. to me that's a valid proposition.

but saying you have to buy them in every store? come on. and $4-5 apiece? don't mislead me to persuade. it leaves me feeling tricked, rather than convinced.

Safeway and TJ's have them for $1, Target $1 and the list goes on and on.

[Ginto]

73. My point is that 1$ is too much if you need 3 or 4 for some families.

Last time I saw one, an actual canvas tote at Target, it was 9.99. I admit that I was going by anecdotal evidence. I did not think they were just for packing groceries. I also thought you could use them for carrying around groceries in the store like Ikea. I hate wheeling around carts and sometimes its hard to snag a basket. My mistake on that.

[AndyTiedye]

34. Without a Car, You Need a Good, Sturdy Bag Even More

[Ginto]

45. Then give them away for free. nt

[northzax]

58. nothing is free

sorry to tell you. even the bags at Safeway cost money, not much, but something. I can tell you that the store I work in has seen a reduction in paper bag use of about 80% since DC implemented a $.05 bag tax January 1st. one of the major problems with the law is that it isn't raising the revenue expected (people simply aren't using bags)

[Gormy Cuss]

49. I've never seen a store care whether the bag was branded theirs.

As a theft prevention strategy most stores won't allow you to use a reusable bag in lieu of a shopping cart but I have never heard of one refusing to use a competitor's bag (or a bag not branded at all, for that matter.) One of the few ways that poor people can manage to come up with reusable bags is by using what they have,like bags from other stores.

Would you please post the names of these stores so that others can boycott them?

[Ginto]

50. Just try a test.

Go to a store like Target and start putting things in a bookbag. May depend a bit on color of skin, but eventually security will come a question you.

[Lance_Boyle]

52. test fail.

In the store, you put your items to be purchased in a cart or a basket, like everyone else. Items are bagged (in whatever bag you choose) at checkout.

[Ginto]

55. I hardly ever carry a basket, but I shop lightly.

I think the problem lies in the people who buy tons of groceries each trip. You would need multiple bags to haul your groceries out and you'd have to remember to bring them each time. I've been informed that Walmart is supplying the bags for free though.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. That's not a problem of using only their bags. That's an issue of theft prevention strategies.

Putting it in a bag before paying for it isn't condoned because if they allow it then they would have to make everyone empty and reload their bookbags at the checkout in order to separate people who were merely carrying the merchandise and those who were shoplifting.

Target and most other stores have carts for carrying unpurchased merchandise for just this reason.

[CreekDog]

74. .

:rofl:

you don't think much of us do you?

[athena]

65. For people without cars, plastic bags are difficult.

Let me guess: you have a car, right? If you didn't have a car, you would know that the last thing you want to be walking around with is a plastic bag heavy with groceries. I have never owned a car, and I find that reusable bags are the most comfortable way to bring groceries home from the store. They don't dig into your hand, and you can put them over your shoulder.

The price of the bags is also not a good excuse. I was a starving grad student for years, and my reusable bags were among my most prized possessions. I was lucky to live only three blocks from the grocery store, but before I had my canvas bags, I would have to stop several times along the way to rub my numb hands. What annoyed me was not the price of my reusable bags but the 5-cents-per-bag credit the stores would give me for bringing my own bags. My two bags replaced at least 10 of their flimsy plastic bags, and yet they would only give me back 10 cents.

[Raine]

71. 99 Cent Store has reusable bags

for well 99 cents.

[slackmaster]

51. Wal-Mart is giving them away for free

:nuke:

[awoke_in_2003]

22. exactly...

thank you for noticing. Welcome to DU :hi:

[Ginto]

46. Thanks! The support for this is a little disconcerting. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

76. it seems to be par for the course...

yes, environmentally it is a good thing, but a lot do not see how things like this affect the poor.

[bemildred]

6. Awesome. nt

[RoccoR5955]

7. Glad to see them go.

I do not see it as a regressive tax. Many places give away reusable bags. If not they are less than a dollar a piece, and last quite some times. Canvas ones cost more, but I have several for THIRTY YEARS, that I use all the time. Other kinds of bags can be used for groceries. Even pillow cases can hold your groceries.
Maybe now, people will start to REMEMBER to take them from their cars when they shop.
Those lousy bags are good for nothing. They tear easily, and don't hold much. Not to mention, I believe that they spontaneously reproduce.

[SoCalNative]

8. Actually they are good for something

Not sure what else I'd use to put the clumps and lumps in after cleaning out the cat box....

[bergie321]

16. Most people

Throw out several plastic bags or liners a week without thinking about it. Bread bags, the plastic bag in a box of crackers, pasta bag, vegetable bags, etc. They might not be as convenient as grocery bags but they get the job done.

[soleiri]

21. I use an empty plastic kitty litter container.

We scoop it from the box to the empty plastic container, and if for some reason we can't take it outside right then,
it also keeps the smell down.

[RoccoR5955]

27. newspaper... It helps it compost well too. n/t

[SoCalNative]

40. I don't get a newspaper

and my cat litter comes in a cardboard box or a bag so...

[KamaAina]

10. Not all of us have cars

yes, there are even people in SoCal who don't.

We'd have to REMEMBER to a) tote them down to the store or b) take them to work THAT MORNING before stopping off on the way home. :(

[soleiri]

24. That's me

And yet, I manage to bring bags with me. Since I take the bus and train daily, I carry a large tote bag with me and I have several (I think the brand name is Chico) bags which fold up and take very little room.
I think people are capable of doing it, because it's really not that hard.

[RoccoR5955]

28. you don't forget your keys, do you?

Get into a routine. I always have at least one in my pocket. They even make those cute Chico bags which take up a tiny amount of space, and have a caribiner on them, so that you can put one on a key ring.

[KamaAina]

36. Keys fit in my pocket

I would imagine that, to purchase this bag that does, I'd have to travel to a mall, across town, then shell out a pretty penny.

[Gormy Cuss]

78. Ten bucks for Chicos, four to six bucks for store-labeled Chicos.

Whole Paycheck has them for $4. There must one of those within a two hour mass transit commute from your place. As far as remembering to take them, use the handy clip provided and attach them to your belt loops --that would make a fetching fashion statement.

(and yes, I'm kidding.)

[OnlinePoker]

9. Just curious about what people use for garbage bags at home?

We've never bought "kitchen catchers" or the like, prefering the plastic shopping bags for taking our waste to the bin (we have about 15 reusables for our groceries, but get the occasional plastic when shopping at convenience stores or carry out restaurant). They're thinner, and I would think less wasteful on the production side than the thicker manufactured garbage bags. As someone said, they consume less oil in production. It's the idiots that let them fly loose that are being irresponsible.

[bluetrain]

18. Agreed. This is absolutely ridiculous. I used to use the plastic Whole Foods bags for the cat litter

They were thick and the cat couldn't scratch through them. Now that they no longer offer them, I have to use two full sized garbage bags for the same situations, garbage bags which have to be bought and which are much larger than the grocery bags.

If they want to clean up SoCal, the first step is an actually functional public transportation system.

[CreekDog]

42. you realize that plastic in our waterways is a huge problem

and if public transportation could fix that, then why would Europe limit those plastic bags too?

[cyr330]

32. There are plastic recyclable bags

that are easier on the environment. I usually buy them at Costco.

[AngryAmish]

41. condoms

[truthisfreedom]

11. While nobody likes seeing these plastic "tumbleweeds", paper bags require twice as much fossil fuel

to produce and distribute than plastic bags, sadly.

Sigh.

http://reason.org/news/show/1003006.html

[David__77]

13. I despise this.

Hit the consumers, while letting the corporations bear as little direct burden as possible. This is another austerity measure in a "progressive" disguise.

[awoke_in_2003]

23. yep, and it will hit the poor consumer...

even harder

[EFerrari]

26. I don't think I understand. People can take bags to the store

or buy paper bags for .10. This isn't an austerity measure but an attempt to limit pollution. What am I missing here?

[cyr330]

31. It IS an admirable attempt to limit pollution.`

And it works!

[EFerrari]

33. I lived out on 48th Ave and if I forgot my doggie bags,

I never had to worry about finding one along our walk. They were all over the place. And then, there was the Chron story about all the plastic in the SAND on Ocean Beach. It was enough to make you ill.

I was glad when SF put the ban in and I'm glad about this one, too.

[Gormy Cuss]

53. The fee for paper bags is flat out punitive and regressive.

Paper bags never were a major component of litter even back in the days when they were the only bags offered by stores.

You and I both know that the lowest income people are going to struggle a bit more to keep up with this because every dime matters. There are already a million ways that day-to-day life is harder when you're poor. Why add one more? While I'm all for restricting plastic bag use in favor of paper I really can't support charging for a paper bag -- why not offer incentives for bringing your own, like a few pennies off the bill?

[EFerrari]

57. That would be another way to go, sure.

And sturdy paper bags can be used multiple times. Charging for the bags seems to me to be a way to make a buck in a bad economy more than anything else.

[CreekDog]

70. I've ridden lots of MUNI buses and from the looks of things, the poorest people have their own bags

frankly, they are sturdier and you can carry fewer bags more easily than many --but those fewer bags have to be stronger.

[Gormy Cuss]

75. That doesn't address the issue of penalizing people when they don't have sufficient bags.

It's a common problem when one is trying to schlep home TP or other bulky items on the bus or on foot. Then there are those who don't have their own sturdy bags yet.

It's true that transit users/walkers learn that carrying fewer, stronger bags is easier than those flimsy plastic ones. It's even better if you can lug stuff home in a knapsack or cart.

[CreekDog]

77. i'd rather subsidize their healthy food choices, their transit, their housing, their education

than a 10 cent paper bags for which there are free alternatives to.

the plastic bags are becoming a disaster for the environment and since there are free alternatives and because poor people are more resourceful than any others, they will find those alternatives.

plus, if a paper bag is reused twice, then it has basically cost 3 cents not 10.

[Gormy Cuss]

79. I'm not defending plastic bags. They're a scourge.

It's charging for paper ones that sticks in my craw. Yes, poor people are resourceful. They have to be and for many it's nearly a full time job. I hate public policy that encourages more "resourcefulness" on the backs of the poor just because it's no biggie for everyone else.

With plastic bags banned and paper bags costing a dime, there is no free alternative for most. I suppose if one can shop at Walmart one can stock up on free bags, and if one is very careful to read Sunday newspapers every week it's possible to find other retailers offering them up for free too. All it takes is time to track them down. Alternatively, one can take a buck out of the nonfood budget and buy a reusable when shopping, although those cheapos don't last that long for really lugging. It's so simple when one has time and resources.

[Ginto]

47. Same as raising federal gasoline taxes by 10 cents.

It may result in less driving, but it hits the poor right in the wallet.

[EFerrari]

54. It really isn't the same because there are other solutions to buying grocery bags

every time you go to the store whereas there are sometimes no good alternatives to putting gas in your car because America sucks at public transportation.

[Ginto]

56. The solutions are inadequate. nt

[CreekDog]

69. you're missing nothing

it's not rocket science.

the bags are a verifiable problem and for a bunch of reasons, they litter the environment more rapidly and pervasively than many products. there are many alternatives that serve the same purpose that do not litter as effectively or as persistently --this law helps steer towards those alternatives and extremely inexpensively.

[jtuck004]

17. Lead Found in Reusable Shopping Bags...

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/11/15/con-plastic-bag-contamination.html


Looks like it is not a real problem 'till they age, but I do wonder how we could make ones that are lead free.

'Cause there's enough brain damage out there already...

[Nihil]

38. "'Cause there's enough brain damage out there already..."

True ... and plenty of evidence of it on this thread alone:

"We'd have to REMEMBER to a) tote them down to the store or b) take them to work"

"I despise this."

"yep, and it will hit the poor consumer even harder"

"Sounds like this will be a regressive tax on the poor."

"Whadda buncha shit."

"If they want to clean up SoCal, the first step is an actually functional
public transportation system."
:wtf:

[Pavulon]

20. Win one for sea turtles...(nt)

[grahamhgreen]

25. Great! I hate those things. They should be illegal. Maufacturers should be fined. (PHOTO)

http://forum.globaltimes.cn/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29574&thumb=1&d=1273544687

[cyr330]

29. GREAT idea

Somebody on here was bashing the San Francisco Board of Supervisors because they had done the same thing here in SF a couple of years ago. It's wonderful for the environment, and it is no trouble, whatsoever. I don't know how anybody with a goddamn brain could be against this.

[Jim Sagle]

37. Whadda buncha shit.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. yes, agreed - bunches of shit

The bunches of shit will certainly increase, as the dog-walkers will no longer have free plastic with which to scoop up their pets' droppings. Some of course will find some alternate means for shit-picking, but many will simply let it stay where it's dropped.

Whadda buncha shit, indeed.

:hi:

[exman]

48. Before plastic shopping bags and etc..

You would find piles of dog crap everywhere, but it would wash away in the rain or dry up and get kicked aside. Now I see plastic bags with a turd inside (preserved indefinitely) where people had picked up after their dogs, set it aside aside to pick up on the way home and forgot or deliberately left behind. The bags are bad enough, but a bag of shit is worse. Also I have seen whole mountainsides clear cut to make paper bags in south east states where everything, regardless of species or size was cut for pulp. We are destroying the environment for the sake of convenience.:shrug: You don't see much of this from a car, I walked everywhere for many years because I was homeless and believe me homeless people encounter more crap than anyone. I was always more concerned about my own waste since most bathrooms are for customers only, and public restrooms are rare and located in places where homeless are not welcome...

[Reg825]

81. I was there inside the room when the vote took place

It was pretty interesting to see all the excuses the plastic industry (which is backed by oil money) made to vote against the ban; they even threatened to sue, as usual... here's my account of that day:

http://www.economicrefugee.net/latinos-at-forefront-of-largest-plastic-bag-ban-in-u-s/

[catgirl]

82. This is what they do in Germany

Bring your own bag, or purchase one. It works out well.