2,000 foetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

[Lars77]

Source: Hindustan Times

Thai police investigating a strong smell emanating from a Buddhist temple have found more than 2,000 foetuses hidden in the complex's morgue that appear to have come from illegal abortion clinics. During an initial investigation at the temple in Bangkok on Tuesday, police discovered piles of plastic bags containing more than 300 foetuses. Police Lt Col Kanathud Musiganont said workers pulled more bodies from the temple's morgue on Friday.

More than 2,000 have been unearthed from vaults where bodies are traditionally interred pending cremation, which under some circumstances can take place years after death.

Abortion is illegal in Thailand except under three conditions - if a woman is raped, if the pregnancy affects her health or if the foetus is abnormal.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday that more must be done to prevent illegal abortions but that his government would not revise the abortion-related laws. He said his government has discussed the matter and believed that "the existing laws are appropriate and flexible enough."

Read more: http://www.hindustantimes.com/2-000-foetuses-found-at-Thai-Buddhist-temple/Article1-628528.aspx

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Photo: AFP

[Dappleganger]

1. This is what will happen if the right to choose is not protected.

[ehrnst]

4. Indeed. I wonder about what happened to the women - if they got a safe abortion.

But that's not what the anti-choice crowd will think - they will not think about the fate of the woman at all, except in hateful terms.

[Dappleganger]

10. Or the fates of all those children born into poverty.

Once the fetus is 'saved' they would just assume let it starve to death.

[rfranklin]

2. Great photo op for the anti-choice crowd...

Can you imagine this scene transplanted to St. Patrick's Cathedral?

Then again, it is Buddhists who are known for their lefty philosophy.

[cliffordu]

3. Yep, they'll be on this like flies on shit.

[uppityperson]

5. which is odd since this is a place that is what they want, no right to choice

[Atypical Liberal]

6. Loss of potential.

That's what I see in those bags. How many of them were unwanted because of convenience? How many of them were unwanted because their mother could not afford to keep them?

Very sad.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. Respectfully,

Respectfully, you are wrong about me.

I am pro-choice. I am neither pro nor anti-woman, but I'm neither pro nor anti-man, either. I'm pro human.

Why would it be right-wing or anti-woman to comment on the fact that women are driven to abortion largely because of social stigma and/or because they can't afford their children? How many of these fetuses would not have been aborted if the mother lived in a more equitable society?

Please take a look at my ballot from the last election. It is in my signature. I am not right-wing. I voted for every Democrat on the ballot, except one.

[Dogtown]

12. "How many of them were unwanted because of convenience?"

That quote alone identifies you.

[herbm]

15. See below. Connected to the wrong comment.

[Atypical Liberal]

18. Some certainly are.

Some abortions most certainly are matters of convenience. But, as I also said, "How many of them were unwanted because their mother could not afford to keep them?"

I'm sure most abortions are simply due to social stigma and/or the lack of ability to support a child. And that is sad.

But whatever the reason, I still see 2000 less people who might have amounted to something great. To be sure, they could have amounted to something bad, too, but I like to think of the better possibilities in man.

[Dogtown]

22. Too late.

I see you.

[Raster]

35. No abortion is a "matter of convenience." None.

The choice to terminate a pregnancy is NEVER made lightly.

I see you.

[haele]

38. I see the results of 2000 women who got pregnant when they didn't want to -

or got pregnant and discovered that the fetus was not viable, so they took the only option possible when faced with a pregnancy that, ultimately, would not end well. I'm sorry, I look at this picture and see these were not meant to be born children.
It has nothing to do with potential, which I feel happens if only the pregnancy is desired in the first place.
There are too may desired pregnancies that end in miscarriages, stillbirth, or children born with only hours or a few painful years of life that are torture to that child and any family that loves it. There's your loss of potential there.

If the mother wanted the children, then I feel sympathy for her and any others of her circle who were ready to love and nurture that child and his/her potential future.
But there are a lot of "abortions" that would have ended up in stillborns or women dying of sepsis if they did not have the procedure in the first place; and in a country with a high poverty level and poor pre-natal care, the need for non-judgmental abortion services is critical to keep a potential viable, loving mother alive and able to have the children she wants.

Haele

[herbm]

16. You got it right from the beginning. The crime is not abortion, the crime is poverty.

[Atypical Liberal]

19. I agree. n/t

.

[herbm]

8. Why does it have to look like a company turkey giveaway. How can anybody find any glee over this?

I am amazed. Gob smacked. This is sad. The poor women involved. This is tragedy. Its important to know about this but its also inevidable use of the photo as an emotional black jack by both sides trivializes what this represents. That humans are disposible and that there are those who would be even more upset if those little bags held puppies from an illegal puppy mill.

[notadmblnd]

23. I find the picture very odd. A fetus should not be that big unless it's near full term

are all of those full term babies in those bags or are they turkeys? Cause it really does look like bags of turkeys to me.

[ehrnst]

25. Those appear to be some sort of standardized containers. (nt)

[herbm]

28. An exceptionaly disquieting photo once one knows whats in the bags.

[Rage for Order]

37. Impossible. I've been assured that late term abortions are exceedingly rare...

And only done as a measure of last resort when the woman's life is in danger or the child has no chance of survival, so they must have added sand or rocks to those bags to give the illusion that the corpses were bigger than they actually are.

[herbm]

14. Not an inconvenience. An unbearable burden brought up in the meanest of circumstances. No woman uses

abortion as birth control. It favors those who protest against it by lowering social program and law enforcement and penal systems pressures and costs. Its survival for most who use abortion to limit economic pressures, tax savings for everybody else.

I am personally against abortion. I know its wrong. So I won't have one. Thank goodness as a male I will never have to make moral stand on that. That said, I also believe that there should be no law against it. I believe its a decision that has to be a free will choice. Unfortunately because of unfairness in our economic system it will never be a completely free choice. There will always be pressure on the poor to have what under fairer conditions they would never ever contemplate. In that situation there is most definitely a loss of assets. We lose those lives. And the system not those women are immoral ones.

[jancantor]

29. oh please

Any time you say something like "no woman uses abortion as birth control" you lose all credibility. One can be pro-choice and recognize that yes, SOME (a small %age) of woman do and will use abortion as birth control. It's like saying "no liberal would ever.." etc.

It shows a tendency towards platitudes vs. reality.

[herbm]

31. Do you seriously think that any woman uses abortion as a regular birth control?

What the heck, I don't have a condom but that's OK, I'll just get a surgical procedure and poof, no problem? Please. Where exactly in this tragedy is there a platitude hung?

[jancantor]

32. Yes

I think it's a tiny minority but all there would have to be is ONE woman who did this, to disprove your "no woman..." claim. It's a platitude. It also hurts the pro-choice cause because it instantly renders any argument you make suspect since you claim to have omniscience about what every single woman in the US (or worldwide) does. When you consider there are literally scores of millions of women able to give birth (iow not too young or too old) just in the US alone, there are going to be some.

I simply say that given that there are scores of millions of women (and many more worldwide) capable of giving birth, and who have sex, that yes - it's very likely that at least ONE uses abortion as birth control.

This is especially true with younger people. Teenage boys and teenage girls often act irresponsibly in all sorts of ways. You honestly think there isn't maybe just one (or more) young girls who knows she can get pregnant from unprotected sex, has already decided to abort if she does get pregnant, and is relying on that fallback in case she does get pregnant? Get real

[herbm]

33. Your all or nothing attitude doesn't promote the discussion either direction. Its a diversion from

the discussion. My point stands with your admendment: excepting "a tiny minority", abortion is not a casual decission, it is usualy an earth shattering one that is made as option B or C or worse. One more either way makes no difference.

And please note: While I am against abortion, I think there should be no law against it and that if men got pregnant there would be no laws against it. If you want to end abortion largely, end poverty.

[jancantor]

34. You are the one with the all or nothing attitude

and the use of the exclude the middle fallacy in a sense. I thank you for your concession. Yes, it is likely a tiny minority, but the claim that "no woman" does it is silly.

We are both pro-choice, I just believe that extreme arguments that diverge from reality are a bad idea. I've never known a woman who had an abortion who did not take it as a major decision, and that's a good thing. I think the most important factors in reducing abortion are education, and availability of birth control. I also strongly support availability of pharmaceutical male birth control. It hasn't passed FDA yet and is years away, and I hope the FDA doesn't drag its feet.

[DesertDiamond]

17. I know, right! It was just too too inconvenient to have another mouth they couldn't feed!

Lazy women! They should just be turning more tricks in those cages!

There's an old Buddhist saying that if you look down on others for their suffering you will suffer the same fate. If you aren't aware of what a lot of Thai women are forced to do to survive, you'd better get yourself educated.

[Atypical Liberal]

20. Please read my entire post.

Please read my entire post.

I'm well aware that most abortions are probably due to social stigma and lack of means to support a child.

But I also know that some simply find having a child inconvenient.

Either way, I find it a sad loss of potential.

[ehrnst]

24. Dental appointments are "inconvenient" Childbearing cannot be described with that term

Any more than donating a kidney could be.

No one would ever say, "You won't volunteer to donate your kidney because it's inconvenient."

Childbearing - especially in a situation where it could cost you your livelihood, put you and your family out on the street, and possibly kill you due to lack of access to a hospital - CANNOT be reduced to "inconvenient."

I had a child under the best of circumstances, and it was a hell of a lot more involved than could be described in terms of convenience.

[fasttense]

9. As this photo makes clear, making abortions illegal does NOT stop women from getting them.

But it does prevent poor women from getting safe abortions. I wonder how many of these women survived their illegal abortions?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. well said

[slay]

21. +1

this could easily happen here if abortion were made illegal. :scared:

[Dorian Gray]

26. That's just

disturbing.

[Ter]

27. What's a foetuse?

Don't they mean fetus?

[jancantor]

30. Common spelling difference

just like you will see oestrogen vs. estrogen. Brits, among others use this variation

[defendandprotect]

36. Is this more male-supremacist religion at play .... ???

Despite having a huge and active sex industry, many Thais are generally conservative on sexual matters, and Buddhist activists especially oppose liberalising abortion laws.

Public health minister Jurin Laksanavisith said around 1 million Thai women get pregnant each year, with 60,000 suffering miscarriages, and another 80,000 getting legal abortions. He gave no estimate for the number of illegal abortions.

Maybe I missed something in the article, but don't understand the connection to the Buddhist

Temple -- ??

How could anyone expect this to stay hidden -- and why didn't those who head up the Temple

notice this?

Weird!