U.S. Has No Plans to Retreat from Traveler Patdown

[Hissyspit]

Source: Reuters

U.S. has no plans to retreat from traveler patdowns
Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:50pm EST

By John Crawley

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. homeland security officials have no plans to back away from air passenger security patdowns despite a traveler uproar that they violate privacy rights and growing concerns in Congress over the policy.

As the heavy holiday travel season got under way, John Pistole, head of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), acknowledged on Sunday that the law enforcement-style patdowns, performed as an alternative or additional screening measure, can be unexpectedly intrusive.

"It's invasive; it's not comfortable," he said.

But Pistole stressed that tighter security, including a wider use of controversial full body scanners at airports by year's end, is necessary to mitigate terrorism risks. "I want to be as sensitive as I can to those folks. I'm very attuned given all the concerns that have been raised," Pistole told CNN's "State of the Union" program. "No, we're not changing the policies."

Read more: http://us.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AK1S220101121?ca=rdt

[sarcasmo]

1. Once they created Homeland Security our civil liberties were squashed. Boycott the airline industry

NOW!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Walking is good for you.

[MineralMan]

6. Well, that's an option you can take, certainly.

I need to fly, so I won't be doing that. This Christmas could be the last time I ever see my parents. They're both 86. You do as you please. I'll do the same, if you don't mind.

[movonne]

21. Some people have to fly....and others might not have to..but it

will cause lots of people not to fly...I already saw an article that hotel, and other business that cater to foreign tourist are begging them not to do this...they are already losing business...I think many people all over the world are not as excited to come here anymore and this is the cherry on the cake..

[saigon68]

45. One thing for sure Bushes Buddies the Bin Ladens will be exempt

From having their genitals fondled

[TheWatcher]

28. By all means, forge ahead.

Tell Big Brother we said Hi!

:hi:

[gateley]

7. Fatherland Security. nt

[herbm]

3. This'll change. Pistole has a vested interest in garbage: its his job.

[soryang]

4. Pistole makes a good herrenmensch nt

[JJW]

5. Next

We'll be called combative insurgents.

Good bye freedom!

[Milo_Bloom]

8. Good.

[armodem08]

9. I find the words of Benjamin Franklin instructive...

‎"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

"But Pistole stressed that tighter security, including a wider use of controversial full body scanners at airports by year's end, is necessary to mitigate terrorism risks. "I want to be as sensitive as I can to those folks. I'm very attuned given all the concerns that have been raised," Pistole told CNN's "State of the Union" program. 'No, we're not changing the policies.'"

E tu, Mr. Pistole?

[gateley]

10. Although I am rabidly against both the scanner and the body search,

I have to say I was surprised when I watched the vid of the "don't touch my junk" guy. The screener was very respectful in describing what he was about to do. I think many of us assume they're just little people assholes getting off on showing us who's boss, but as always, can't forget there are good people doing this along with the assholes.

That's all, it just made enough of an impression on me that I thought I'd mention it.

I should find something to do today other than share my opinions with everyone on DU.

[ProudDad]

31. That one screener sounded "courteous"

they're (sketchily) trained to do so...

But the subsequent assholes were hardly courteous, especially the prick "supervisor" that tried to order him back into the security area for probing...

I'm REALLY hoping that enough complaints (and canceled or un-taken trips) to the airlines will get this bullshit rescinded...

[gateley]

35. Didn't catch that part, but I'm not surprised. Just saddened. It's

got to be as horrific for most of them as it would be for us. Maybe the blustering ones are just trying to cover up their discomfort. Or maybe they're just really assholes. Plenty of those to go around, to be sure.

I don't ever recall such an enormous outcry like this. Other civil rights that were taken away disappeared without a peep. Maybe because we just didn't feel the effects directly. This has really energized people, so I'm hoping, too, they will do something about it. I wonder if Obama and Napolitano realized JUST how demeaning and invasive it was going to be. I'm sure it was presented to them in an entirely different light.

[ProudDad]

36. Hell, THEY don't have to go through it...

Why the f*ck should they care about the rest of us...

Chertoff is doing it to make money...

Obama and the execrable Napolitano are doing it to cover their asses since they haven't the courage to resist the Empire...

[gateley]

41. Okaaaaay. But some people DO care about others. Not Republicans,

mind you :7, but there are some good Dems that do, and I include Obama and Napolitano in that group. Hell, I care and I have no plans to fly anytime in the near future.

Chertoff, just for the record, doesn't own the company that manufactures the scanner, he runs a 'security consulting firm' :eyes: and the company is one of his clients. I'm sure he'll be rewarded handsomely, but he doesn't get direct $$$ from the sales. As I understand it, the agreement to purchase these were made during the Bush administration. I know, I was shocked, too! :evilgrin:

And in fairness, we're not the POTUS and we don't have the weight of the safety of the American people on our shoulders. I don't agree at ALL that this is the route he should have taken, nor do I think the threat is what the Terra people have made it out to be, but he has to do something, if only to reassure those citizens who are nervous about terror in the sky.

[ProudDad]

46. I know chertoff runs the lobbying outfit

that flacks for Rapiscan (rape-scan), one of the major manufacturers of the porno scanners...

I don't have a dog in this hunt either since I will not be flying any more from USAmerican airports...and not just because I don't want to relive various molestations in my past but I don't want to generate any more CO2 than I have to...

Purchased during bush but the policies were put into place by the always timid Dems...

What he could do is start closing the bases of occupation throughout the world, end the wars - ALL of them, terra(tm), drugs, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iran, Columbia, Mexico, etc. etc. etc. -- and use the HUGE quantities of money saved to pay reparations to the poor people of the Earth whose livelihoods were robbed by the Empire including here in the belly of the beast.

But he won't because he's a capitalist too and even if he weren't, he knows that he'd be the recipient of the "2nd Amendment remedy" if he tried to disrupt the "Permanent War Economy(tm)" here in the Corporate States of America...


And Napolitano has a special place in hell reserved for her ass -- she deserted our entire state and left us to suffer the tender mercies of a neo-nazi legislature for her own personal aggrandizement, fuck her! (hell, she always was a fuckin' blue-dog anyway)...

[truedelphi]

11. What a great distraction. Just keep us threatened about our various private parts and

Appendages, and we forget to pay attention to what is really wrong.

Well, at least the secret government didn't have to kill off three thousand of us this time to provide a distraction.

As we fret about the TSA madness, the wars continue. The plunder on Wall Street continues. The Health Care 'Reform' Act continues to fall short of its promised fix even as the people most fervently worried about their ability to comply with the HCR act have boosted their premiums to a point that no one in America can afford anything but rent, health insurance and the occasional bag of groceries.

And the two lovely unwinnable wars continue.

Ah this Land Of Freedom. Ya gotta love it!

[avaistheone1]

14. I think the pat-downs are the first time where a vast swath of Americans

actually experience a loss our freedoms here at home. When the government bugs our calls and emails or our activity on the internet most of us have no idea that it happened or is happening.

I think intrusions on your person and your most intimate body parts is a line that most of us will not accept as routine in going to the airport.

You may be numbed by the wars, Wall Street, HCR. I have continually rallied and protested again them all. I think these scanners and groping only add to the record of what is truly unacceptable in our country, yet it is becoming the new normal in this country. I don’t want the pat-downs to become the new normal. The fight for this kind of privacy is a fight for liberty for me, it is not a distraction.

[truedelphi]

17. I wish I could still believe that everyone wanting the same thing would have an effect.

Polls showed that upwards of seventy percent of us wanted no big insurers in the loop on Health Care Reform - it didn't matter. What we wanted was Universal Single Payer Health Care, and once in the WH, Obama forgot all about his understanding that it "is the best and most logical way to solve the health care system's problems."

Polls show that most Americans do not want the wars continued. And it doesn't matter.

Polls show that most of us do not want the continued tax cuts for the rich, and that won't matter.

And I'd like to believe that all of us becoming angry over this latest attack on our freedoms will count for something, but given the examples of the above instances, I don't think our outrage will come to anything.

I mean, I HOPE I am wrong, but we all know that in the end, HOPE doesn't matter.

[AsahinaKimi]

12. I hope the airports are nearly empty

during the Holidays. I really do. I want the Airlines SCREAMING about the money they lost.

[MineralMan]

25. I guarantee that they will be far from empty.

People will go where they want and need to go. However, if you neither want nor need to go, you can boycott all you like. Nobody will notice.

[TheWatcher]

29. If enough people were to do so, believe me, The Airlines would notice

I know it would upset you deeply if anything were to happen to scale back or prevent the Police State from expanding, because you seem to need it so badly in order to feel "safe".

Hopefully, the day will come when this country will regain it's sanity and put an end to all of this theater and nonsense, and refuse to give in to fear and tyranny.

Somehow, I have a feeling you'd learn to adapt.

If not, the option is always there to move to a place that has a similar Police State that would fit your needs.

[DissedByBush]

13. How do gays feel?

The policy is men pat down men, women pat down women.

How do gay men feel when they get felt up by another man?

How do gay women feel? Can they demand a gay man for their search?

A hetero man wouldn't work since he could get his jollies feeling up a woman regardless of her orientation.

Or for that sake, does the TSA know how many if its agents are gay, getting off being able to feel up people of the same sex?

No, this isn't against gays.

Having gay agents is the same as allowing hetero agents to feel up those of the opposite sex.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. WTF???

Do you think that gay men enjoy having strangers assault them? Or that gay guards enjoy performing the assault? You have got to be kidding me.

[DissedByBush]

42. You're missing the point

The ostensible reason for having only same-sex searches is supposedly that the screeners can't be getting their jollies off the search, which supposedly makes the victim feel better. Or that a guy won't feel molested getting searched by a guy.

But that is hetero-centric.

Much of the public gives a pass on this because a 40-something TSA guy searching a 20 year-old guy doesn't look like sexual assault to most people.

But have 40-something male TSA screeners give the heavy pat-down to 20 year-old hottie girls. THEN the public would have serious outrage.

But they don't realize that if the screener in the first case is gay, it's basically the same thing.

Or if the 20 year-old guy in the first case is gay, he probably did just feel sexually molested.

I'd think sexual orientation would matter here.

[awoke_in_2003]

43. Okay, I think I got what you are saying...

I apologize for being a bit sensitive, but I live in the south and I hear all kinds of bullshit in relation to homosexuals. Knowing how people down here hate people like my sister keeps me on edge.

[ProudDad]

37. The same...it's NOT about sex, it's about abuse of the powerless by the powerful

it's about population control...

and corporate profit...

And it's a little about pipsqueek cowards covering their asses...

[pinboy3niner]

15. UPDATE: TSA chief softens position

TSA chief: Screening may evolve
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4624126

[LisaL]

16. I wouldn't characterize it as softening.

In which direction is it going to evolve? Since screenings will be adapted as "conditions warrant," what's next? Cavity searches?

[pinboy3niner]

19. That's how it's being interpreted...

TSA chief: Screening will be minimally invasive

By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Jim Abrams, Associated Press – 57 mins ago
WASHINGTON – The head of the federal agency responsible for airport security says screening procedures should be as minimally invasive as possible, shifting his position that there would be no change in controversial scans and pat-downs.

The head of the Transportation Security Administration, John Pistole, said in a statement Sunday afternoon that the agency is constantly evaluating and adapting security measures and there is a continual process of refinement and adjustment to ensure air safety.

Pistole's statement toned down his earlier stance, expressed on a Sunday news show, that in the interest of safety passengers would have to put up with sometimes invasive and uncomfortable screening.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_6

[Plucketeer]

18. I just won't fly anymore.

The terrorists win. Bin Laden must be wearing a permanent grin.

[krabigirl]

24. 2nd. unless it's to leave the country and stay away :)

[Odin2005]

20. "They thought they were free".

[Rex]

23. Okay, to switch from attack dog - what do they know that we don't?

I'm sorry, but the underwear guy doesn't hold much water in my book. If they ramp up these kind of security checks and we cannot complain about civil liberties abuse THEN what is it that has them skeerd shitless to do such obvious violations on citizens bodies so close to Christmas time? Anyone?

[ProudDad]

48. Two words: Timid Dems(tm) (n/t)

[lovuian]

26. This will piss more and more people off and

this is a good thing

[Psephos]

27. Yet. n/t

[ProudDad]

30. Isn't "pistole" = "tiny dick" in Italian??? (n/t)

[katnapped]

38. Gold coin, actually n/t

[ProudDad]

40. Bummer...

I wonder if Chertoff is sharing his booty with mr. goldcoin... :rofl:

[The abyss]

32. Can anyone imagine - for just a moment

How the people that founded this country would act faced with a crazed draconian government?

The denizens of the US need to take control and become the citizens and owners of their government.

This was once a great nation..... it can become one once again.

[TheWatcher]

33. + INFINITY

Sometimes it really is just that simple.

:applause:

[ixion]

34. "unexpectedly intrusive"?

Oh, please. :eyes:

They are quite EXPECTEDLY (sic) intrusive.

[rocktivity]

39. "I want to be as sensitive as I can to those folks."

Uh, yeah, Mr. Pistole--that's precisely what the problem is!

:headbang:
rocktivity

[The abyss]

44. I would like to remind all travelers this US holiday week (thanksgiving)

The TSA does NOT have arrest or detention powers. Their personnel and organization must rely on civilian law enforcement in all local jurisdictions. The goons running the security checkpoints have zero authority. They are NOT law enforcement.

The TSA can - and will - attempt to bullshit the public into believing they have some sort of authority.

The TSA org draws power under civil statutes NOT criminal statutes. They can NOT arrest nor detain anyone! Their power is akin to the issuing of a summons for a littering violation.

TSA employees are NOT certified state or federal law enforcement. That thug feeling up your teenager this week is NOT trained by a state or federal law enforcement academy. If the local jurisdiction is not playing the game then there will simply be no game - no summons - no ticket.

There will be, and already are, local LEO jurisdictions willing to play "the game".
http://theintelhub.com/2010/11/22/law-enforcement-to-arrest-citizens-who-opt-out-of-body-scanners-and-intrusive-pat-downs/


However prosecution will always reside with the local district attorney's office.

[woo me with science]

49. This should be an OP. nt

[ProudDad]

47. THE UNDERWEAR GUY CAME FROM OVERSEAS!!!!

SO DID THE SHOESTRING GUY!!!!

Are you going to grope the whole world???

Dumb fucks...