North Korea says region is on 'brink of war'

[Elmore Furth]

Source: MSNBC

SEOUL — North Korea on Wednesday accused Seoul of "reckless military provocation" — a day after an artillery attack left at least four people dead on a South Korean island.

A U.S. aircraft carrier group also set off for Korean waters, a move likely to enrage Pyongyang and unsettle its ally, China.

The nuclear-powered USS George Washington, which carries 75 warplanes and has a crew of over 6,000, left a naval base south of Tokyo and would join exercises with South Korea in the Yellow Sea from Sunday, U.S. officials in Seoul said.

President Barack Obama had earlier pledged to "stand shoulder to shoulder" with South Korea .



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40349704/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

[defendandprotect]

1. Right wing crazies get what they want ... again--!!

[ProgressiveMajority]

24. If it comes to war, the Mighty KPA is ready! MANSE! (Story of Kim Jong Il's visit to Tabaksol Post.)

The following is a amusing and absurd agitprop story I found. It recounts Kim Jong Il's glorious visit to Tabaksol Post in Juche 84:

The criminal crazy imperialist warmongering Obama is the most cravenly coward leader in the world, but in contrast Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il the brilliant statesman, political genuis, prodigious humanist, and invincible military commander is the bravest most courageous leader in the world leading invincible Juche Korea toward the ever-victorious path of Songun Politics which are the lifeblood of the Korean people and the yearning of all world progressives.

Nothing exemplifies the utmost courage and composure of Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il amid the bloody battlefield than the story of his visit to Tabaksol Post in Juche 84 (1995).

In those days, having illegally brougth about the downfall of socialism in the world and seizing upon a grip from the passing away of President Kim Il Sung the Great Leader, the criminal capitalist warmongering US imperialists under the reprobate Bill Clinton sought to provoke a war of aggression against the DPRK to enslave the Korean people under the eternal never-ending hell of bourgeois consumerism for ever. In these times the DPRK was at the crossroads of life and death struggle to protect and preserve the hard-won freedom, prosperity, and pluralist democratic single-minded unity of the Korean-style utopian socialist worker's paradise.

But on 1st January 84 Juche Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il, Lodestar of the new Century, embarked upon the Great Field Guidance Tour which led Korea to the victorious end over the criminal US imperialists by visiting the Tabaksol Post on the frontlines of the anti-US anti-imperialist revolutionary struggle.

When the soldiers saw the Great Hero of Mt Paektu they fell to their knees sobbing profusely, pleading the Great General of Guerillas to retire at once.

"O, Dear leader! Please retire at once! It is unsafe with you here! The criminal US imperialists would surely seize upon an opportunity to attempt on your life with their illegal weapons of murder!" the soldiers said, begging the Beloved Leader.

At the expert suggestion of the troops a cravenly coward such as Bush would have fled the battlefield at once, but Leader Kim Jong Il is entirely cut of a different cloth, being the son of the Great Leader President Kim Il Sung who left his native home at the tender age of fourteen to fight the wicked jap reactionary colonialist warmongers in the great Anti-Japanese Revolutionary War, stood up from all his height, his bulging muscles rippling loudly under his frock coat. Glancing around in an instant he immediately and perfectly appraised the situation at hand.

"We may be in danger here on the front line" the Leader said, "but in this dire situation all Koreans are under the imperialist gun and we would not be a commander if we did not share our lot with the brave soldiers honorably defending our socialist revolutionary cause, the cause of Juche". Warmly, he added : "We are a Supreme Commander of Songun who shares life and death, sweets and bitters with the soldiers".

At these words the soldiers could not contain their emotions any longer. The burst into the massive weeping at the courage and bravery of the Great General. "Our General is the most courageous and bravest general in the world! May He live ten thousand years or for ever, whichever lasts longer!" they cheered on wildly, afire with a sincere genuine true throbbing to uphold the Leader with arms in single-minded harmony of anti-US anti-imperialist patriotic zeal, such is the greatness of Kim Jong Il the most praiseworthy leader in the whole world, the blessing of Juche Korea and Immortal Morning Sun of the Sky.

Then the Leader went round to aquaint Himself with the situation, visited the living quarters and set forth the tasks to fullfill in securing the great freedom of the nation by relying on the Songun Politics. He posed for a photo with the soldiers and donated an automatic rifle and binoculars to the unit.

This was the turning point in the great upswing of the history of the leadership of Kim Jong Il the invincible ever-victorious General of Songun on the path to building the great prosperous powerful country with is setting the exemple to the world.

Songs have been written around the whole world to immortalize this great historical event in the history of humankind to be handed down the many future generations.

Disclaimer: I just thought this story was so absurd that it might provide some levity, otherwise this whole chain of events is making me sick. I also updated the story and changed Bush to Obama as I think that makes it more amusing.

[defendandprotect]

86. Well, certainly it was W who began this warmongering ... but agree it's Obama now -- !!

[psychopomp]

101. What the hell are you talking about

You are completely out to lunch. Obama has nothing to do with this situation. The US has long stood with SK knowing that NK is dangerous and provocative; any president would have been irresponsible not to remain committed to our ally, SK.

[defendandprotect]

111. W's warmongering re Korea .... has been followed by Obama's failing to calm

down the situation -- which should have been done.

I'd advise you to look at our original involvement in this Korea --

try the 38th parallel and Henry Kissinger's role in that --

Korea is as much as scam as Vietnam War was --

[snappyturtle]

2. Here we have two countries at the brink of war; contrast that with

our occupation with Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. I think now is the time for the U.S. to do what it is doing....showing a bit of military might that will, hopefully, get NK to back down. To me that's OK. The planet doesn't need another war and if the U.S. can prevent it, great. But this crap in the three aforementioned countries is a waste of our military, of our treasury and most of all, of the lives lost. imho

[eridani]

11. I'm sure that NK has done exactly that contrast

-and also noticed the deficit hawk assault on the little people in the US.

[trud]

14. no let's not.

Not another war bankrupting the US. We are not the world's policeman, particularly when we can't take care of our own country.

[Turborama]

19. We are not occupying Iran.

And it's debatable whether we're "occupying" Iraq now.

[snappyturtle]

84. I was using occupation lossely with Iran. Seems we're very occupied

with Iran in respect to their nuclear ambitions. Sorry....I shouldn't have lumped Iran in with the other two.

[defendandprotect]

112. W began this warmongering in Korea ...

and Obama should have been quieting this down --

Rather, Obama has been pushing drones over Pakistan!!

Obama has ended our occupation of Iraq --

Nor our occupation of Afghanistan --

This is more HAWK than any of us voted for in '08, I think!!!

Certainly, in '06, Pelosi confirmed, on video -- "Democrats were elected to end the war!"

[Baclava]

3. The USS George Washington carrier strike group will join ROK naval forces

Public Affairs Office
Yongsan Army Garrison, Republic of Korea

Statement: Naval Readiness Exercise Announced

YONGSAN GARRISON, SEOUL, Republic of Korea — The USS George Washington carrier strike group will join Republic of Korea naval forces in the waters west of the Korean peninsula from Nov. 28 to Dec. 1 to conduct the next exercise in the series announced at the 2+2 meetings in July.





This exercise is defensive in nature. While planned well before yesterday’s unprovoked artillery attack, it demonstrates the strength of the ROK-U.S. Alliance and our commitment to regional stability through deterrence. It is also designed to improve our military interoperability. U.S. Navy ships scheduled to participate include the USS George Washington (CVN 73) with an embarked carrier air wing (CVW 5), USS Cowpens (CG 62), USS Shiloh (CG 67), USS Stethem (DDG 63), USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62). U.S. and allied operations are built on an already strong foundation of cooperation and this exercise is intended to further enhance interoperability. The U.S. and ROK forces will conduct air defense and surface warfare readiness training.

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2010/11/24/statement-naval-readiness-exercise-announced/

[ronnie624]

104. The U.S. navy isn't exactly "joining" S. Korea.

The two governments have been conducting military "exercises" off the coast of N. Korea for a long time.

One can well imagine the reaction of the U.S. government, if warships from a country considered an enemy, were found in large numbers off the coast of California. And if the enemy country was in cahoots with a neighbor of ours, and the U.S. government felt threatened, it might very well attack an island belonging to the neighbor. I can easily see that happening, when I consider how governments react when they feel threatened by the military of a foreign nation state.

[ProudDad]

119. Exactly! The old double-standard...

If Iran and Venezuela sent their warships to "practice war" in the Gulf of Mexico between Cuba and Florida...

Imagine...

[ronnie624]

120. But the cognitive dissonance can cause dizziness and disorientation in many Americans.

It's best to not point out such glaring inconsistencies.;-)

[AsahinaKimi]

4. This scares me..

NK has nukes an would certainly use them. This is going down a path that may not have a return trip ticket.

[maryellen99]

12. and they tested the EAS this morning too

coincidence or not?

[melm00se]

107. EAS?

tried looking it up, couldn't find anything that fit.

what is it?

[maryellen99]

110. emergency alert system nt

[jpak]

5. If war comes to NK - won't that put a cramp on Little Dude's playboy lifestyle?

can't play golf in a bunker

[caitxrawks]

29. LOL

[perimedik]

6. this will not end well.

I feel this is the second in a series of acts that will esculate to full scale war.
America needs to have it ALLIES get involved. We need to stop being the world police and just secure our crumbling nation.

Do we support SK? Yes. We are already strectched thin and the world realizes it. Bully nations like this make calculated moves knowing that we are financially strapped and our military is spread thin.
Realize that we have >28,000 US troops on the ground in harms way right now in South Korea.

[trud]

15. Realize that we have >28,000 US troops on the ground in harms way right now in South Korea.

That's plain crazy. That's half the troops that are supposed to be left in Iraq when that was is "over." It's like there's a master plan to destroy the US.

[Nihil]

18. Maybe some people need to realise other things too ...

> America needs to have it ALLIES get involved.

Yeah ... we saw how well that went down in Afghanistan & Iraq.


> Bully nations like this make calculated moves ...

Very rich. Not too good at recent history are you?

[tiny elvis]

7. what if a missile or torpedo hits a ship in that group?

i hope the kims are as frightened as they should be
they will have no lack of targets

[timo]

8. ????

if NK used a nuke on SK, wouldnt the residule of that nuke screw them up too?? given the proximity,shared border and all??

NK is one of those problems that should have been dealt with years ago, like back when they promised the Clinton whitehouse they wouldnt pursue nukes...

[Angleae]

103. If NK used nukes on SK, the residue of that nuke is the least of their worries.

The nukes from the US that would be falling on them would be vastly more damaging.

[AngryAmish]

109. Not really

1. Seoul is right on the border. Best Korea keeps most of it's population well north.

2. Best korea really does not give a shit.

[edhopper]

9. To me

this is the North Koreans making sure it's people are scared enough during a time of leadership change to stay in line.
If a war keeps them in power, they will have a war.
If the US can get China to jointly and forcefully tell the NKs to cool it, then that would be a big help.

[lonestarnot]

10. Crap.

[Turbineguy]

13. OK. New Kim's the Man!

He's killed a few people; that makes it official. You're just not a dictator unless you kill some people on a whim.

[ProgressiveMajority]

25. Agreed! Kim Jong Un has what it takes! n/t

[Crowman1979]

16. No thanks to you, ya facist fat-ass with an eraserhead haircut!

Hopefully they'll piss off China and Russia, then N. Korea will be done for. And at the same time, we won't have to lift a finger.

[bemildred]

17. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. nt

[Imajika]

20. North Korea always says this...

There will be no actual war.

The North is acting out to get attention as usual. Probably desperate for food and heating oil aid. Their communist system is a complete dysfunctional wreck just like all the others that tried these marxist command and control economies. The North Korean rulers have just been more brutal than most and have been able to retain power even as their people suffer horribly.

No one wants a war. South Korea and President Obama will go through the motions of verbally/diplomatically slapping the North around, but it's all just talk - and that is just fine.

All we are doing is waiting for the North to finally implode. Eventually it will. Time is on our side, there is no reason to ratchet up tensions further. Just need to avoid a bloody conflict till the North falls apart on its own.

[maxsolomon]

22. China must stop enabling, entirely.

the 'inevitable' collapse is taking too long, and another generational transfer of power will extend the life span and paranoia of NK.

[LanternWaste]

21. I'm thinking they're simply attempting to illustrate leverage...

Between showing off new centrifuges and their aggressive political posturing, I'm thinking they're simply attempting to illustrate leverage to get the food shipments reinstated they critically need.

[pinniped]

23. PRK torpedoed that South Korean ship earlier this year.

I'll say that was a precursor to war.

[tabasco]

26. We could use a big parking lot next to China.

Make my day, North Korea.

You feel lucky, punk?

[defendandprotect]

113. More Imperialist America ... !!! Oh, "bring it on!" ...

[soryang]

27. The Pentagon is giving Obama bad advice, again

The carrier task force should not go into the Yellow Sea. This will aggravate the situation and take the region to the brink of nuclear war. The Pentagon has a tragic track record of miscalculation in Asia. The presence of the task group is what escalated the simmering disputes in the Area. The fact that this is breaking out after Obama's Asian trip is really pathetic.

[PufPuf23]

31. Agree about bad advice from the Pentagon. Bad rhetoric under Obama and GWB too.

The carrier task force will be a sitting duck.

I sicken to read blood thirsty make my day war mongers at DU.

What happens if NK uses major weapons and takes out the aircraft carrier, a major incident on par with Pearl Harbour or 9-11?

Then China and/or Russia tells us to back off?

Aside: The new agreement for trade between Russia and China to not use the dollar is not a friendly Act. Look at the Shanghai Cooperation Agreement and member and associated countries. Russia has more natural resources than any country on the planet that are readily defended and have decent infrastructure. Russia can bring former Soviet states and the Euro-zone countries to a big hurt over natural gas and oil.

Or we nuke the capital of NK and the NK artillary installations on the DMZ?

Or there is a traditional ground war with 1,000,000 plus NK ground troops where over 50% of an SK population lives in an urban society?

A major counter attack by the USA is likely to bring in China and Russia and the USA is weaker except capability of nuclear arsenal (we think).

Some in the Pentagon/Intelligence/Financial sect may well be hankering for WWIII. Recall McCain and "Bomb bomb bomb Iran", a sickening of a performance by a "popular" and connected pol. The PTB use the idiots for fronts as a matter of practice.

The USA is a fascist military empire and the drapes are down in that the common person in the USA is losing human rights, human needs, safety, voice, dignity to support violent empire -- a major impact of the empire is to concentrate power and wealth and reduce population by "soft" eugenics and social Darwinism. The military, political, and financial sectors are so far out of balance with general welfare. We continue failed economic and ecologic policies for the same ends for a global elite with converging interests and legal cover to conspire.

WWIII - The USA will be the "bad guys" to many in the world. We can only protect ourselves with nukes as lack allies and manpower, a lose-lose proposition. Most of our allies (Europe, SK, Japan, etc) are first world urban societies that are vulnerable in natural resources.

War wastes the environment, resource, lives, and social well-being more than any event (save cosmic catastrophe) but some small minority gains and the rest of us are fools or victims.

rant rant I am so anti-war because war is so stupid. Fact: The USA is easily the most militaristic society in known human history.

[soryang]

41. The Pentagon is out of control

Unfortunately, the president is just rolling out the standard Pentagon rhetoric. I wonder if he has the guts to put the Pentagon in its place or if events will just go on taking their ugly bloody violent corrupt course.

[defendandprotect]

114. You really think the Pentagon is working to calm down the situation???

And, from the decisions that Obama makes, we have to imagine that EVERYONE he deals

with gives him poor advice!! :eyes:

[caitxrawks]

28. Eeep.

This creeps me out.

[lbrtbell]

30. And Sarah Palin is on top of the story with her "wisdom"

She said we need to stand by "our North Korean allies."

I facepalmed so hard, that I just rammed my nose through the back of my head.

[roamer65]

32. I wonder how many American kids will obey the draft...

for the re-ignited Korean War.

[HEyHEY]

34. This won't be a long war if there is one

North Korea hasn't got the staying power.

[roamer65]

73. Unless the Chinese factories supply them.

[DeadEyeDyck]

99. The war would not be with NK

NK and ROK the proxies. The war would be with China and China has a pretty tight leash around us. They can collapse the dollar in a heartbeat.

That is why China has been so quiet about this. They are sitting back and watching and waiting. This could get real ugly in a hurry.

[Pavulon]

100. So if they "collapse the dollar" do f-22, tomahawks, and B2 stop working?

china has no interest in not getting its money back. we have no interest in killing lots of people in china.

[melm00se]

108. intentionally collapsing the dollar

wouldn't happen.

that would create inflation and inflation helps debtors and hurts creditors.

Bonds are paid off using the current currency and they are, for the most part, not inflation protected.

so if inflation hits and the US has to, say, double it's monetary supply (thus making the $$$ be worth half as much outside the USA), the US could pay off it's international creditors at what is, in effect, 50 cents on the dollar.

this would also have an impact upon imports but this could be offset by an increase in domestic production of goods and things like oil.

[HEyHEY]

33. Hard to say what's going to happen

The South often backs down on threats the likes of which it made yesterday. However, I have a feeling they could be serious this time... the North may not realize that. It would be a BIG mistake if they tried anything. I know people are scared of North Korea. But, in reality, its military equipment is old, it hasn't got fuel reserves, it hasn't got food to feed its troops. As well, South Korea is three times the size of it, well fed, backed by allies.

So, there you go.

[ShamelessHussy]

35. been there, done that, didn't turn out as we planned last time

when you think about it, since the end of wwII, the major conflicts we have gotten directly involved with haven't turned out well for us... in fact we got 2 going on right now that haven't gone as planned, and has lasted much longer than our planners thought.

they have a powerful ally with China, so I doubt anyone in the west wants this thing to escalate to all out war... we are already over extended, and going bankrupt.

[HEyHEY]

36. Back then it was the South who were poor

Actually all of Korea was poor. But the south was the worst off and until the early 70s were poorer than the North. China won't get involved in this if a war breaks out. They are too concerned about money and a stable internal situation. Also, I think it turned out fine last time.

Ever been to South Korea? It's amazing. And it exists because of us.

[ShamelessHussy]

37. poor countries have the ability to hurt us, even beat us e.g. Vietnam

and this one actually has nuclear weapons.

i would strongly advise us to stop poking this hornets nest, especially since we have our hands full with 2 other poor countries.

this kinda of thing only serves to reveal how weak we actually are these days.

[HEyHEY]

39. Nah, there's a difference here

South Korea would be doing most of the heavy lifting. After the initial war, I think them and China would somehow sort out how to deal with it. China doesn't want millions of North Korean refugees to spill over and South Korea doesn't want to pay to fix the place up and feed everyone. But, it'll be their problem.

I doubt you'd have years of insurgency either.

[ShamelessHussy]

40. well, you know what they say

Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall

[HEyHEY]

42. I honestly don't think we've been the ones guilty of that here though

North Korea has been flexing and chest pounding more than anyone. South Korea has a decent economy and society and just want people to leave them alone. By the way, if you want a laugh google "Central Korean News Agency" It's north korean state media in english!

[ShamelessHussy]

45. how many countries have they invaded in the past half century?

no one is clean here.

as i said, i would rather use diplomacy, than the stick, to engage NK.

stirring up their paranoid fears, is unfruitful, and downright foolish, imho.

[soryang]

44. The Chinese won't let S. Korea or anyone else invade N. Korea

They stopped it in 1950 and they'll do it again. N. Korea is a Chinese sphere of influence. No one will take it violently. When you invade N. Korea you are attacking Chinese interests.

[HEyHEY]

46. That's a falicy

China, in reality, couldn't care less. North Korea is a drain on their economy. China isn't going to war over these people, it's not worth the cost to them. This isn't 1950 anymore. ANd they know that North Korea won't be occupied by the USA. It'll be by South Korea, who they really don't have problems wiith.

[ShamelessHussy]

48. If that were true

there wouldn't be a NK today.

[HEyHEY]

49. China is much different than it was 60 years ago

Back then they were holding onto the communist line and that's what they were fighting for. Are they going to go to war today, with the western world and watch their economy go into the crapper, then have internal rebellion? You know why china is so stern with its people? Cause it KNOWS that it isn't as stable as it appears. Take away the economic success and there's going to be trouble. They know that and aren't going to risk it for North KOrea.

[ShamelessHussy]

50. but they still got their back... otherwise, why would NK still exist today?

i am sure China would love to test some of their new naval weapons, at the expense of their proxy NK... though they will not surrender NK to the west, as has been demonstrated many times, as they are too important a proxy for them.

[HEyHEY]

51. Bargaining power

AS long as there's this little spazz in the corner that the world thinks only China can control, then they get what they want. If it came down to it, I think they'd leave it alone.

[soryang]

52. That's what MacArthur thought; they kicked our butts

US miscalculation in Asia is legend. MacArthur learned his lesson the hard way. He told the troops that they would be home by Christmas 1950. Wrong!

You think that the Chinese would let South Korean forces march violently right up to their border?

One of the events precipitating this crisis is the earlier US naval exercise in the Yellow Sea. This isn't just about N. Korea, it's about US military provocations in Asia.

If you can't read the signs, you don't have the ability to assess the situation.

60 years means nothing to the Chinese or the Koreans, they have been having these problems for four thousand years. China doesn't want Korea united. Japan doesn't want Korea united. The US doesn't want Korea united. The only country in favor of unification is South Korea.

The Chinese aren't going back to the western hegemony days. And they aren't going to allow the US to start another war in their sphere of influence. They set a precedent in 1950 when they didn't even have nuclear weapons and they'll do it again. The US can count on it.

[Pavulon]

54. We left a million chinese there dead, and would have left 100 million

if the order was given. lets be clear, if n korea attacks south korea again or a us asset there will be a shooting war. if china joins in they do, then bad things will happen.

they are not in a position to allow or disallow.

this is not an opinion thing or a maybe its a treaty obligation and it will happen if we are attacked.

[soryang]

56. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, we lost that war

A million casualties is nothing to the Chinese. 37 thousand US dead brought us to our knees.

[Pavulon]

59. No the north lost the war. they are the ones starving and fucked over with insane rulers

while the south prospers. millions are a rounding error to them, ho's great leap forward killed 30 million or so.

however we are good at killing people by the hundreds of thousands or multi millions. megadeath actually lifted that name from the airforce.

in reality china has no interest in a shooting war with the people who buy all the plastic dog shit they make. I mean we may have to get vietnamese to put lead on our mcdonald cups.

[HEyHEY]

60. Oh, you're one of those

South Korea is a free country. Nobody "won" that war.

[HEyHEY]

61. You know little about that war, don't you?

[soryang]

79. Actually, I know quite a bit about it

I have a very large Korean library right here in my home. The last time this area got hot the Pentagon tried to mobilize me because of my experience in Korea with the military and the fact that I know the peninsula very well and speak Korean. Most Americans can't find a toilet in Korea let alone win a war there.

[HEyHEY]

81. Then why do you appear to know nothing about it?

[ShamelessHussy]

90. he seems much more better informed about the reality there, than you

[HEyHEY]

91. I'm about a one hour flight from "there" and follow this situation religiously

Because of my close proximity. COuld it be you think he sounds more informed cause you agree with him? That doesn't make him correct.....

[ShamelessHussy]

96. the world is flat

proximity doesn't mean much today.

i think he is better informed since he describes the situation more accurately vs the more cartoonish, black-n-white views expressed in your post.

this situation is much more complex than how 'poor' they are, or how 'strong' we are.

especially considering our past experience there, and in vietnam, not to mention our 2 current adventures with poor countries that are now going on almost a decade, with no positive end in sight.

[HEyHEY]

97. The "poor" comments were in response to military ability

You have to feed an army. That's just straight strategy. All he's done is say McCarthur and China over and over... .this is a completely different era and the politics are different. There is no way China will go into a war on NK's beehalf. I've explained why when talking about their internal situation, but you chose to omit this in your evaluation of my posts...whatever. ..

[ShamelessHussy]

78. "if n korea attacks south korea again..." - doesn't sound very credible to rest of the world

as this isn't the first time

[Pavulon]

82. Killing civilians with 155 is frowned upon, and when it is on tape

it makes it easier to justify. they are playing a dangerous game.

[ShamelessHussy]

94. yet, we have not responded militarily with force, so this makes us look weak, again

but the truth is, we are weak right now, and our enemies know this well... as they continue to rub our noses in it... NK has been doing this since they threw out all our inspectors way back under chimpy, followed up by building and then detonating a nuke, for all the world to see, and further expose our lies in regards to our reasons for invading iraq.

we are in big trouble right now, and it only makes matters worse by provoking NK... as i said before, we should rely more on diplomacy, and encourage the 'sunshine' policy vs this kinda embarrassing and dangerous prodding.

[xor]

115. Do you think the reaction would have been any different if we were not in two wars ?

Do you think we would be at war right now if everything was in decent shape here?

[HEyHEY]

87. uh, what/

"The only country in favor of unification is South Korea."

What?! I thought you said you lived there? Surely you must know that Korea wants nothing to do with fixing that mess up North. And if the North doesn't want unification, why does North Korean state media keep pushing for it?

[soryang]

92. You clearly don't have a clue

I live in the Korean community and have done so for decades.

[HEyHEY]

93. I'll be honest, I think you're full of shit

I don't think you've ever been to either Koreas, I don't think you speak Korean and I sure as hell don't think you know what you're talking about. You also have no realistic grasp of how China will react.

Here, start THERE

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

Pursue it and find the countless references to re-unifying Korea.

[ShamelessHussy]

47. Russia probably would work against such a thing, too.

we need to tread carefully here... though, there are many forces that would to see us in a shooting war there, many of our enemies would, too, as they know we are currently very vulnerable right now considering our other ongoing engagements... hopefully cooler heads prevail.

[Pavulon]

55. When was the last tomahawk fired? been a while, I bet they made more

we would kill 250,000 people with air power in 3 days. The highway of death from the GW1 would look like a fender bender. I bet those poor fuckers on diego are really busy these days.

hopefully no war will start because of n korea, but if it does they have far more to loose than we do.

[soryang]

57. N. Korea is a failed state, it isn't the real party in interest

This is a US Chinese confrontation. Any other assumption will lead to catastrophic military diaster.

[Pavulon]

58. I say let it fail, then china owns it. they want millions of refugees like

i want pubes with my turkey tomorrow. china will not be happy with a nork collapse. so I say we do everything possible to speed up that process.

[soryang]

63. This isn't about N. Korea it's about US Chinese relations

The US is leading a virtual Delian League of Nations in a gambit to control Asia and "contain" China. The US economy is on the ropes and its military actions are becoming more and more provocative. So China has taken the leash off N. Korea to put increased pressure on US military adventurism. It's an escalation of the conflict by proxy.

The position of North and South Korea is just a circumstance while China and US play brinkmanship. It is very unwise to let it go further. The tough talk is just nonsense.

[HEyHEY]

65. Ha ha, sometimes you Americans overestimate your self-worth

I love how you guys always break stuff down so it's all about you. Do you really think that China wants the USA to invade North KOrea with South Korea? It would mean the end of North Korea, the end of their bargaining chip. As well, China and North Korean relations are not as good as you seem to think.

[soryang]

70. The Korean peninsula is where great powers collide to...

...East Asia. Everything else is secondary.

[HEyHEY]

75. 1955 called, it wants its analysis back

World's changing, China is every bit as annoyed with North Korea these days as anyone else. However, they need that little, irritating bargaining chip to leverage others. The want things to be the status qou, with no violence. And they want it to last that way.

[Pavulon]

76. Most Americans do not understand china

i mean dont understand anything about its history and culture. especially its interaction with the west in the last century. they dont understand that everyone there is not the same and do not have the same culture.

I would hope most educated Chinese and educated Americans see the value they provide each other.

[xor]

116. No kidding... It's so annoying how many of us do that here...

It comes from both sides too. Then again, non-americans tend to do it too.

[Pavulon]

68. The us economy is currently 2x that of china in gdp ppp

even in a weakened state. china does not want north korea to collapse because it does not want millions of refugees, old hundred names is already getting fucked over in the new china, adding millions more will not help the cause.

North korea has a long history of acting out and asking for aid. they are in the middle of a monarchy like transition of power.

Brinkmanship was cuba in 62 this is not that type of conflict, china can not currently fight that conflict.

[soryang]

74. They don't have to, they can beat us on the ground...

...in a conventional conflict just like they did before.

[HEyHEY]

77. Their troops have no combat experience

As well, if we had gone 100 per cent into the war in the 50s none of this would have been an issue. As well, we should have bailed out CHiang Kai Shek and none of this would have been an issue. But, I digress....

I find it hilarious that you think China is willing to go to war for North Korea.

[soryang]

85. If only history were different?

MacArthur thought the same thing.

[HEyHEY]

89. I said "I digress"

Besides, I still say no one won that war, if they had the borders would not be where they were at the begining. ANd you didn't respond to the more important bit about how CHina isn't going to waste their prospesity on North Korea.

[Pavulon]

80. Rather than speculate on killing people not involved in this conflict

you may want to focus on the koreans. China is not the same as it was in the 50's. mao is dead, his policies are dead.

There is not indication china would take part in any conflict there, there is no part the us would take part.

china does not want to be pulled down by choosing the wrong side in a war.

[HEyHEY]

83. Plus, if the go to war with the west, their economy is done, and another evolution comes

[HEyHEY]

62. North Korea is not a failed state

It is a poor country run by a madman.

[Pavulon]

64. best case it collapses simiar to e germany.

and they unify. any shooting war there will be terrible for all koreans.

[HEyHEY]

66. Most South Koreans I know don't even want that

Who wants to inherit that mess?

[Pavulon]

69. bingo. there is a real problem

eventually there should be reunification.

[soryang]

67. Actually, no one knows who's running it right now

The two leading experts on PBS tonight said that the North Korean military does not appear to be under Kim Jong Il's control at this point and that no one who's really calling the shots overthere. It was specifically stated that the military seems to be taking matters under its own control and the leadership is unknown.

It is a failed state, the only functional institution is the armed forces.

[HEyHEY]

71. It is the military who is running it, and always have run it

Kim Jong Il has always just been a figurehead as was his father. But the army has always controlled the place. There is still a government though, just one run by the army. Somalia, Haiti, these are failed states, North Korea does not qualify.

[Pavulon]

72. There is no news source with direct access

to the real information. lots of speculation, decent chance that the intelligence community is blind here too. situations like this are quite dangerous, like when soviet tanks just showed up places and the CIA missed the hints.

[Arrowhead2k1]

106. No doubts here, North Korea will get smoked. The question is...

How many innocent people will be slaughtered in the process? Both sides need to calm down. As a citizen of the west, I implore Obama to postpone the military drills near the tense North Korean border at the present time. It's looking more and more like a potential flashpoint everyday, which I'm sure can be cooled down if one side swallows its pride for once and simply steps back a little. The consequences of war are far too great.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

38. If N Korea is reading this - I don't think it is a good idea to bomb S Korea!

[Arrowhead2k1]

105. If S Korea is reading this - I don't think it is a good idea to conduct drills near N Korea's border

nt

[lovuian]

43. I thought WWIII would start with Iran now it looks like Nkorea

and China

[Pavulon]

53. Translation, give us money suckers. all part of the pattern of them fucking

up and asking for money or aid to calm down. I say fuck em' let them stew. And if they twitch and attack south korea take them apart. we dont do hearts and minds but breaking nations using soviet era gear is a specialty.

[ShamelessHussy]

88. cartoonish world views do more harm than good

i am surprised to see so much confidence in our military capability considering all the problems we are having with the 2 weakest countries on the planet right now... and I am sure many of our enemies see that reality, too and would 'love' to exploit it.

[Pavulon]

98. W have no trouble killing lots of people, we have trouble winning hearts and minds

CI war is difficult. Convincing people in fully hats we are there to help is hard. There is a difference in the events in GW1 and the current wars. But I am sure you understand that.

[hayu_lol]

95. Winter has begun over there...

automatically means terrible shortages of food, even for the vaunted military, and heating fuel. The PRK citizens, non-military,usually either starve to death or turn intoo papa-san popsicles this time of year.

China wants N Korea as a buffer zone, much as the Soviets wanted buffer zones around their territory.

When there are food/oil shortages, dignitaries are first in line. 2nd come the troops. The 'ordinary' people are left to get along as best they can.

[Yeahyeah]

102. Somebody's always starting some shit up in there.

"Y'all gon' make me lose my mind
up in HERE, up in here
Y'all gon' make me go all out
up in here, up in here
Y'all gon' make me act a FOOL
up in HERE, up in here
Y'all gon' make me lose my cool
up in here, up in here" - Kim Jung Il,recently.

[ProudDad]

117. Obama says, "Bring it on!"

South Korea -- not so sure... :shrug:

[xor]

118. If Obama said "bring it on!", then we would currently shooting missiles at targets in NK

That is not happening, and it's highly unlikely to happen. If anyone has said "bring it on!", it's the North Korean leaders.

[jamiefoxer]

121. after THEY placed it on it. Whatever comes next is THEIR fault /nt