British warship destroys Somali pirate 'mother-ship' vessel (in full view of the pirate camp)

[Turborama]

Source: Digital Journal

British forces on patrol off the Somalian waters have destroyed a pirate vessel, according to NATO. The craft, a mother-ship, was spotted by a helicopter from HMS Montrose.

A NATO statement then said that snipers, "sank it with heavy machine gun fire in full view of the pirate camp." The boat was identified as the whaler from the MV Zouflecar. The vessel was seen acting as a pirate "mother-ship". Commanding officer on board the Montrose, Jonathan Lett said:

"Our destruction of the whaler close to a known pirate camp has sent a message to the Somali pirates, that NATO and other coalition forces are willing to take the fight to them in order to prevent them attacking merchant ships."

=snip=

The pirate mother-ship destroyed by the helicopter and in full view of the pirate camp had been taken by pirates on November 3. NATO had given the warship full permission to destroy the vessel, http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad-application/british-navy-destroys-pirate-ship/story-fn6s850w-1225960538153">reports Herald Sun.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/300655

[truthisfreedom]

1. Wow!

Seems this might have been a good idea some time ago.

Well done!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

2. Good

:applause:

[HEyHEY]

3. Sweet, finally they're killing poor people to protect business!.. oh, wait....

[Turborama]

4. Were there pirates on-board the moored ship?

I didn't see anything in the article about it.

[ManiacJoe]

43. Was it moored or under power?

Neither article mentions it.

[ghurley]

9. except these poor people take hostages and kill other people n/t

[TheMadMonk]

21. UM, the bloody US doing exactly that in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Somalis (the kids in the boats not their leaders) at least have the distinction of being poor and desperate.

[Turborama]

22. The US is taking hostages and killing them in Iraq and Afghanistan?

If you think the pirates are just poor, desperate, innocent kids, you need to learn a bit more about Somali pirates.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[molly77]

23. Didn't the civilized world bunch a bunch of toxins in their coastal waters destroying their fish?

Not sure. Seems like I read that a while back.

[LanternWaste]

40. Therefore the one is predicated on the other?

Therefore the one is predicated on the other?

[MrModerate]

26. Scuse me, poverty doesn't mean you get to kidnap and murder people.

We there "innocents" on the boat? Maybe. Does civilized society have the right to defend itself against armed pirates? Well, yeah.

[Democat]

28. Poor people can be just as evil as rich people.

Don't fool yourself.

[TroglodyteScholar]

32. Being poor doesn't justify being a violent, criminal asshole any more than being rich does. n/t

[HEyHEY]

5. Well, you usually don't leave a ship without a watch on (Even if you're a pirate)

[Turborama]

6. Was that meant as a reply to post 4?

[HEyHEY]

7. Aye, captain, yar!

[Turborama]

10. Do you think kidnapping people and holding them hostage is excusable if it's done by "poor" people?

PS They are very wealthy now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11704306

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/02/pirate-ransom-money-kenya_n_409219.html

[HEyHEY]

14. No, not at all

But I think this is an issue of grey area. Poor country, poor people no real outside help. Everything gets swallowed up by warlords and such... same drill as all over the world. We choose to shoot at them instead of solving the root problems. I know that' a tall order, but it's still and order.

[Turborama]

15. I understand your sentiment but I look at it like this, if they make a choice to be pirates...

...they have to cope with the consequences, good or bad. It's a gamble they have chosen to take.

Solving the root problems? I'm not even sure I can think of any solutions. Somalia is a mind fuck right now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Yeah - some choice. Steal, or starve. n t

[Turborama]

17. Er, no. Kidnap people, hold them hostage, maybe kill them or try fishing somewhere else

Profile

Most pirates are 20–35 years old and come from the region of Puntland, in northeastern Somalia. The East African Seafarers' Association estimates that there are at least five pirate gangs and a total of 1,000 armed men. According to a BBC report, the pirates can be divided into three main categories:

- Local Somali fishermen, considered the brains of the pirates' operations due to their skill and knowledge of the sea. Most think that foreign boats have no right to cruise next to the shore and destroy their boats.

- Ex-militiamen who used to fight for the local clan warlords, or ex-military from the former Barre government used as the muscle.

- Technical experts who operate equipment such as GPS devices.

According to Globalsecurity.org, there are four main groups operating off the Somali coast. The National Volunteer Coast Guard (NVCG), commanded by Garaad Mohamed, is said to specialize in intercepting small boats and fishing vessels around Kismayo on the southern coast.

The Marka group, under the command of Yusuf Mohammed Siad Inda'ade, is made up of several scattered and less organized groups operating around the town of Marka. The third significant pirate group is composed of traditional Somali fishermen operating around Puntland and referred to as the Puntland Group. The last set are the Somali Marines, reputed to be the most powerful and sophisticated of the pirate groups with a military structure, a fleet admiral, admiral, vice-admiral and a head of financial operations.

More details and references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia#Pirates

[pansypoo53219]

8. when are they gonna destroy the asian fishing trawlers that

started the mess.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

11. GOOD QUESTION

[Turborama]

13. Got a link for some background behind your question?

Thanks in advance...

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/15553/

[Turborama]

20. Thanks. Nothing in either of those links about "asian fishing trawlers", though. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

35. There have been several televised documentaries

concerning the threat of the Asian Factory Trawlers.

That and the fact the U.S. and almost every other country had to enforce 200 mile sovereignty off their coast to protect the fisheries

[Turborama]

37. Asia is not a country.

It's a continent. Those claims are too vague to be taken seriously without citations from reliable sources with specifics.

[FreakinDJ]

39. This is nothing new - you should know this

Politeness vs: Broad Brush - I didn't want to single out any one country and call them a bunch a poachers

When Brian wrote about the connection between overfishing and piracy in Somalia he got mostly pilloried in the comments. So, I'm going to lead by saying that no one is advocating piracy, or that strong measures shouldn't be taken to prevent it, but failing to look at the origins of the problem will only lead to defeat.

In that light, Amy Goodman from Democracy Now! just did a good interview with Mohamed Abshir Waldo, in which he goes into detail about how toxic dumping and illegal fishing have led to the current situation. Here are some excerpts:

Toxic, Nuclear Waste Dumping Has Happened Since the 70s
Goodman asked Waldo to elaborate on the origins of toxic dumping. For many TreeHugger readers this may well be the first they've heard of this in Somalia,

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/04/toxic-waste-dumping-illegal-fishing-helping-get-us-into-piracy-mess-in-somalia.php

Reports By Leo Odera Omolo

Tanzanian police are on hot pursuit of a Taiwanese national whose traveler was impounded
for fishing illegally in Tanzanian exclusive economic zone in the Indian ocean.

The alleged Taiwanese pirate is said to holed up in Mombasa ,Kenya, from where he
coordinates fishing piracy along the Tanzanian coastal line

The traveler christened Mv Taiwan 1, was impounded on march 8th ,2009 just 48 hours after
a patrol vessel to stem illegal fishing was launched in the Indian ocean

The vessel had more than 100 tones of tuna fish in its hold .The haul has since been
stored at Bahari Food premises in three 40 foot container pending the court case
against the crew for illegal fishing.

http://blog.jaluo.com/?p=2065

Chinese fishing trawler collides with Coast Guard patrols

Date Posted: 2010-09-08
A Chinese fishing boat ordered out of Japanese waters near the Senkaku Islands collided with a Japan Coast Guard patrol boat as it fled Tuesday, then struck a second Coast Guard vessel minutes later.

The incident occurred in the East China Sea near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands, which China claims and calls the Diaoyu Islands, and which Taiwan also claims and calls Tiaoyutai Islands, some 12 kilometers north-northeast of Kubajima Island. The Chinese fishing trawler’s bow smashed into the 1,349-ton patrol boat Yonakuni about 10:15 a.m., minutes after being told to depart Japanese waters. Three Japanese patrol boats gave chase, ultimately stopping the fishing boat, but not before it collided with the Japanese Coast Guard’s Mizuki patrol boat.

http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=10602

[Turborama]

41. Thanks. There's a few issues there, though.

I knew about the reports about illegal dumping of toxic chemicals, but I haven't heard about the "Asian fishing trawlers" pansypoo53219 mentioned.


Re the Treehugger piece:

I tried to find out who Mohamed Abshir Waldo is and apparently he was installed as provisional Chairman of the Somali Salvation Democratic Front (SSDF) in 1984. SSDF was a major political and paramilitary umbrella organizations in the Puntland region, where the piracy mainly stems from. Here's the source, there are no references so it isn't 100% reliable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Salvation_Democratic_Front

If he's the only source for that info., how reliable is he?

Anyway, what Treehugger quotes him saying about the origins of the illegal fishing boats is this:

The countries engaged include practically all of southern Europe, France, Spain, Greece, UK. Nowadays I hear even Norway. There were not many Scandinavians before, but Norwegian fishing now is involved in this, you know, very profitable fishing business. So, there are others, of course. There are Russian. There are Taiwanese. There are Philippines. There are Koreans. There are Chinese. You know, it’s a free-for-all coast.

Even if what he says is true, it's not exactly just "Asian Factory Trawlers".

Re the blog you quoted from:

That was last year and in Tanzanian waters, I thought you were talking about Somalia's waters having "been raided by gigantic Asian trawlers that scoop up every thing in their wake."

Re Japan Update's piece

Something that happened a couple of months ago in the East China Sea.

[FreakinDJ]

34. Some one is paying attention

Yes they sank the pirate boat and that was good - but chances are these boats would be used for productive legal fishing if their own waters had not been raided by gigantic Asian trawlers that scoop up every thing in their wake.

It wasn't too long ago the USA had to declare 200 mile sovereignty over the waters off our own coast to protect our fishing industry from these very same trawlers, and the U.S. Coast Guard has been kept busy chasing violators ever since.

[Richardo]

12. Excellent

[pitchforksandtorches]

19. Here is the latest video of the Pirates:

Here is the latest video of the Pirates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I5dVBezF9k

[Boudica the Lyoness]

24. lol

ho ho ho and a bottle of rum... :)

[denbot]

25. Fuck em.

They seize and hold mariners for ransom. These guys don't hesitate to kill. We are not out there sinking fishing boats, we are destroying para-military vessels.

[davhill]

29. Tea Party wants to turn us into Somalia

Get rid of the government and they can all be pirates too

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. Bad reporting - a whaler is a small boat, like the ones in Moby Dick you throw harpoons from

Which does mean that there were no pirates on board. Here's the MOD press release:

Royal Marines destroy pirate vessel
A Military Operations news article

24 Nov 10

Royal Marines based onboard a Royal Navy warship destroyed a boat yesterday that was being used by pirates off the coast of Somalia to attack merchant ships.

The Marines, from Plymouth-based frigate HMS Montrose, fired their machine guns at the pirate vessel as they hovered above it in the warship's Lynx helicopter.

The incident took place during a routine patrol off the Somali coast yesterday, Tuesday 23 November 2010, when the helicopter identified the suspect boat as the whaler from MV Aly Zoulfecar, which had been acting as a pirate 'mother ship' since it was hijacked on 3 November 2010.

The whaler was anchored off a known pirate camp and, once permission had been given to take it out, the Royal Marines marksmen fired their M3M .50-calibre machine guns and destroyed it.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/RoyalMarinesDestroyPirateVessel.htm

This is not 'the mother ship'. It's the whaler from the mother ship. The mother ship is 43 metres long: http://www.eunavfor.eu/2010/11/mv-aly-zoulfecar-pirated-in-the-somali-basin/

[TroglodyteScholar]

33. Wow, that's lame.

What next, taking out their fleet of kayaks? Jesus.

Piss-poor reporting indeed.

[Turborama]

38. I guess all the reports were relying on that info from the MOD which calls it a 'mother ship'

Point taken, but there didn't seem to be any other reports at the time which said anything different.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. The MOD doesn't call it a mother ship - it's an ambiguous sentence construction

They said "the helicopter identified the suspect boat as the whaler from MV Aly Zoulfecar, which had been acting as a pirate 'mother ship' since it was hijacked on 3 November 2010".

It is: " the suspect boat as the whaler from MV-Aly-Zoulfecar-which-had-been-acting-as-a-pirate-'mother-ship'-since-it-was-hijacked-on-3-November-2010"

not

"the suspect boat-which-had-been-acting-as-a-pirate-'mother ship'-since-it-was-hijacked-on-3-November-2010 as the whaler from MV Aly Zoulfecar"

The sentence is ambiguous; the MOD may have been assuming the reporters would know what a 'whaler' is, and that it is not big enough to act as a 'mother ship'. Or that they'd bother looking at the photo that was supplied with the press release. They over-estimated the journalists.

[Enthusiast]

31. Pirates! Now there's an enemy I can

believe in.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. Ship was stolen Nov 3 and then sunk by NATO?

Looks like the pirates will need to steal another mother-ship.

Business as usual.

If NATO thinks they were sending a message to Somali pirates, they are just fooling themselves.