FBI thwarts terrorist bombing attempt at Portland holiday tree lighting, authorities say

[cory777]

Source: Oregon Live

The FBI thwarted an attempted terrorist bombing in Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square moments before the city's annual tree-lighting Friday night, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Oregon.

A Somalia-born U.S. citizen, thinking he was going to ignite a bomb, drove a van to the corner of the square at Southwest Yamhill Street and Sixth Avenue and attempted to detonate it.

However, the supposed explosive was a dummy that had been supplied to him by FBI operatives, according to an affidavit in support of a criminal complaint signed Friday night by U.S. Magistrate Judge John V. Acosta.

Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, of Corvallis was arrested at 5:42 p.m., 18 minutes before the tree lighting was to occur, on an accusation of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction. The felony charge carries a maximum sentence of life in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html

---

Breaking Activist News http://activistnews.blogspot.com/

[DesertFlower]

1. OMG. nt

[woo me with science]

2. This would never happen

if we had naked scans at every stoplight.

[HuckleB]

145. Thanks for the pointless red herring.

:boring:

[woo me with science]

164. Have patience, grasshopper.

;)

[HuckleB]

199. Conspiracy theories serve no good purpose, other than for entertainment.

And then only if everyone understands that they are baseless.

[woo me with science]

211. Nay, grasshopper.

Americans accused of no crime are already being lined up to have their crotches searched, and Commissar Napolitano has already discussed extending this to train stations.

The horse has, as we say, departed the barn.

[No Elephants]

160. There'd be no need for terrorists if we had naked scans at every stoplight. We'd all die laughing.

[woo me with science]

165. LOL, yeah...

...or throwing up.

[cliffordu]

3. WOW!!!

that's under two miles from where I'm sitting right now!!!!

TERRA TERRA TERRA!!!!!!!

[Matariki]

4. The FBI keeps catching people they've provided 'weapons' to.

Isn't this the second or third this month?

[Chulanowa]

6. Job security!

[MadMaddie]

42. Yea

I just wonder if this teen would have been able to do anything on his own except talk shit.

In the meantime serious criminals are plotting and planning and all of the resources wasted on this boy could have been used elsewhere.

I don't know....

Just curious if they put this much effort in the RightWing Christian hate groups who plan destruction?

[L.Torsalo]

127. All terror

springs from governments. A simple statement of fact, because they are the only ones who can make it possible. Try to blow off an M-80, anywhere...see what happens. But if the Feds back you up, well...you might be able to bomb the WTC in New york...in 1993...wait, already been done. The fall guy then was Ramsay Yussuf.

[krabigirl]

124. ^^

[savalez]

125. Exactly.

Stings STINK!

The headline should read: FBI plotted to bomb Portland tree-lighting ceremony - enlisted teen.

[harun]

226. They've been doing this for years. Makes for good press.

[Ozymanithrax]

5. Eventually, someone will find a weapons provider not associated...

with the FBI.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Already happened

But the gardener went boom down the road.

[snagglepuss]

8. Somali Islamists have been actively and successfully recruiting youth in NA.

Five young Somali men in Canada disappered only to turn up in Somalia fighting with the Jihadists.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/they-are-born-in-canada-educated-from-respected-families-and-they-might-be-fighting-for-the-shadowy-al-shabab/article1389876/

[EFerrari]

9. Were any of them no recruited by the FBI?

[L.Torsalo]

128. Somali youth

enlisted in the resistance...try to be accurate otherwise it sounds like talking points.

[snagglepuss]

142. Bullshit. Referring to al-Shabab to the al-Shabab pigs as the resistance is

a Jihadist talking point. Do you know shit about those fucking assholes?


snip

Ismael Khalif Abdulle was tortured for not joining al Shabab. He wanted to go to school instead. He says his peers can be persuaded to join the Al Qaeda backed group with the promise of prepaid cellphones.

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/757924--al-shabab-s-reign-of-terror-grips-somalia


snip

Thursday, Oct. 21, 2010.Al-Shabab fighters have publicly executed two teenage girls in central Somalia over allegations that they were spying on the militants.


The executions took place on Thursday in Beledweyne town, the capital of the central Somali region of Hiran. The teenagers were lined up in front of a firing squad as hundreds of locals watched the execution in dismay and shock, Garowe Radio reported.

The victims are believed to have been between 15 and 17 years old.


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/148969.html

[No Elephants]

179. How is that related to this incident? Common national origin or ancestry is not enough.

[roxiejules]

10. Feds: Teen plotted to bomb Portland tree-lighting ceremony

Source: AP

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Federal prosecutors say a Somali-born teenager plotted to carry out a car bomb attack at a crowded Christmas tree lighting ceremony in downtown Portland on Friday but the bomb turned out to be a dud supplied by undercover agents as part of a sting.

Mohamed Osman Mohamud was arrested at about 5:45 p.m. just after he dialed a cell phone that he thought would blow up a van laden with explosives but instead brought federal agents and Portland police swooping in to take him into custody.

Federal court documents show the sting operation began in June after an undercover agent learned that Mohamud had been in contact with an "unindicted associate" in Pakistan's Northwest Frontier region.

Mohamud is a naturalized U.S. citizen who has been living in Corvallis.





Read more: http://www.katu.com/news/local/110898024.html

[Alamuti Lotus]

11. sounds like it was more of another Fed plot than anything..

these alleged stings seem to catch the hopeless willing, perhaps, but not the able; the 5-0 seem to prepare every flawed detail at every rigged step of the way.

[Mortos]

12. So the cops set this poor innocent kid up?

He allegedly used a cell phone to blow up a van he believed was going to kill hundreds of innocents at a tree lighting ceremony. He wasn't arrested until after he actually used the phone (which was not connected to a bomb) that he believed would activate the device. He was also allegedly in contact with a person in Pakistan from whom he tried to buy explosives. I am not going to shed any tears for this guy. This is the kind of homegrown terrorism that is hard to detect and stop.

I give credit to the authorities involved in this undercover sting. They may have prevented a serious attack. This is the kind of shit Tim Mcveigh pulled off in my hometown and killed over 300 people.

[Alamuti Lotus]

14. I don't recall using any words like 'innocent'..

In fact, I think there was a phrase such as "willing" peppered in there alongside obviously appropriate adjectives like "hopeless". The van was supplied by...who again? The boy was a willing chump, I will not dispute, but a chump all the same. And indeed had to have his hand held by johnny law at every step just to pull, well, nothing off--which seems about as much as he may have been able to put together himself, had the feds not so generously pushed things through themselves.

[Democat]

15. The government was definitely involved but he tried to kill people.

Anyone who would try to blow up people at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony is not a good person to be walking the streets.

There is no argument here about politics, the guy was trying to kill innocent families celebrating the holidays.

[6000eliot]

26. But the question is did the government create a

"terrorist" by goading on a disaffected teen? That is a political argument.

[uppityperson]

40. No. They didn't "goad a disaffected teen". Sounds like he was very willing to hurt

people. I am glad they kept an eye on him, glad for this sting.

[L.Torsalo]

129. Sounds like...mmmm.

[Green_Lantern]

210. we don't know that...

The FBI agent has said the suspect told him that. The fact is the FBI decided on that location.

For all we know the guy may have just started out wanting to blow up a church nativity.

The FBI has no recording of these conversations.

[Mortos]

16. I suggest you read the FBI press release it has more details on the case

http://portland.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/pd112610.htm

Mohamed initiated contact with a suspected terrorist in Pakistan with the intent of committing Jihad in the U.S. He was referred to another associate and, again, attempted to make contact. He was contacted by undercover agents posing as associates of the first subject in Pakistan. He was an active participant in this process and stated he had wanted to commit a violent act since he was 15 in the name of Jihad. He went with agents to detonate a small bomb and thought a much larger bomb was in the van he tried to detonate. He stated he wanted the people attending the event to leave "dead or injured."

This young man was actively trying to kill people and seeking out those he thought could assist him...allegedly.

But don't let the evidence of his guilt interfere with your pre-held narrative that all law enforcement agencies exist to set up innocent people. And the implication that he was set up implies that he is innocent.

[Green_Lantern]

212. no,no,no

Mohumad met the original guy before he even moved to Yemen and Pakistan and became classified as a terrorist recruiter.

The FBI agents were much bigger participants giving him money, equipment, and even picking out and mapping of targets.

What crime is he guilty of since there is really no element of the conspiracy he was in on?

He shouldn't be walking the streets he needs serious mental help.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. And why didn't the 'bomb' detonate? Because the guy who showed him

how to make it was a fed. 99 times in a hundred, these willing but unable schmucks would just be sitting around moaning in their coffee and never acting on their very vague ideas because they don't have a clue as to how to acquire weapons, or explosives, or how to construct a bomb. How clueless do you have to be to try to buy explosives from a guy in Pakistan?

It's yet another bullshit Sears Tower attack, proposed, funded, and guided by the feds. Can't let people forget about the WAR ON TERROR!!!

[Mortos]

19. So no one is trying to kill Americans?

Tim McVeigh killed hundreds with a rental truck, fertilizer and fuel. The 19 911 hijackers killed thousands armed only with box cutters. To rule out the possibility of an individual or small group successfully committing a successful act of violence is as willfully ignorant as getting nervous every time you see a person of Middle Eastern heritage.

I guess preventive law enforcement is bullshit and they shouldn't do anything until after a real bomb has gone and real people are dead.

[ProudDad]

35. Preventive is fine

Manufactured events are not...

[Demstud]

225. There's no evidence

of this being a manufactured FBI enabled event beyond the paranoid delusions of an irrational conspiracy theorists mind.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Green_Lantern]

213. I don't believe that one bit but the Feds shouldn't plan out

The attack itself and then arrest a guy they sought out who supplied the extremism.

[Democat]

20. If the article is true, he was asking for help in a murder plot.

It looks like he went beyond complaining to his coffee. If he was willing to contact people that he thought could help him kill innocent people, then someone needed to stop him. There are plenty of people who complain about the government, but very few of them contact terrorists in Pakistan and ask for help making bombs.

[HuckleB]

159. It appears he was given plenty of chances to back out, to do something milder, or even just to pray.

This knee-jerk, anti-FBI line is right up there with the anti-vaccination crowd, It's ranting and raving about fictions of their own creation.

[Green_Lantern]

214. the FBI didn't say he contacted a terrorist in Pakistan to help him

Make bombs. The FBI didnt say what was in the emails.

[DeadEyeDyck]

167. what if he was plotting to kill Obama?

would you regard him as a harmless day-dreamer then?

[Demstud]

224. You make absolutely no sense. - nt

[jtuck004]

21. Actually he (they?) killed 168 people. Blew the windows out in my wife's office

building a mile away. People felt the blast up to 70 miles away.

[Doremus]

29. Was McVeigh the instigator or instagatee?

McVeigh orchestrated his crime and actively recruited others to help. Of course we don't have all the details with this latest incident, but like so many other so-called 'foiled bombing attempts' the FBI seems just a little too johnny-on-the-spot with offers of equipment and opportunity.

I would like to know exactly whose idea it was to bomb the tree lighting ceremony. Until then I will withhold judgment about the guilt or innocence, or degrees thereof, of this young Somali-American.

[ProudDad]

34. Conveniently ignoring the months of SETUP by the FBI (n/t)

[uppityperson]

39. exactly, k&r and am glad they got him

[HuckleB]

137. Exactly.

Some of the responses on this page are quite disturbing. It appears that the FBI did a fair job in this case. It also did the job that we should have been focusing on, rather than starting wars. For some reason, that is lost on some at DU.

[cpwm17]

13. You could be right

Plus Pakistan and Somalia are two countries that the US is bombing or oppressing. So this is probably an attempted blowback, with US agents assisting.

Great, now the US Government has more excuses to do more bombings of more people in their own homes.

[Mortos]

18. If the people we are targeting are the same ones

Who train and assist those who would commit acts of terrorism here, I have no problem with killing them in place. I also have no problem with them being arrested, read their rights and being tried in a court of law once they reach or live in the U.S. and attempt to carry out acts of terrorism.

[western mass]

22. when I saw the word "terrorist", I knew it wasn't a white guy

[Democat]

23. If he was white he would be a "disgruntled Oregon man" not a terrorist.

What do you expect from the media?

[No Elephants]

161. To be 100% fair and balanced, Ayers is "white."

And his anti-war activism is now known as "domemestic terrorism.'

[Mrdie]

24. The US is not very well liked in Somalia

Why? Well for one thing one half of Somalis seem to despise Mohamed Siad Barre, a self-proclaimed socialist who was quite beneficial to the country in the 70's (and popular, too), but whose achievements were sullied in the 80's due to corruption, clan favoritism, and increasingly repressive measures against anti-government forces.

Of course even though Barre claimed to be a socialist right up until he lost power in 1991, he broke ties with the Soviet Union in 1977 after the Soviets sided with pro-Soviet Ethiopia against hitherto pro-Soviet Somalia in the Ogaden War. Then the US sent him tons of military and economic aid, Barre increased ties with such progressive leaders as the King of Saudi Arabia, etc. In the late 80's, as Barre's regime became increasingly untenable due to Ethiopian intrigue and support for rebels and due to increasing unpopularity at home, the US promptly considered him a risky investment and decided to cut off aid, hastening his downfall and the rise of anarchy in Somalia.

This isn't really the main reason why the US isn't very well liked in Somalia today, though, but it does provide context.

The dislike we see here started when we backed Ethiopia after its own pro-Soviet leadership fell down that same year. Ethiopia basically hates the "Jihadists" (who are actually pretty popular) and tries to influence Somali politics via military means.

[No Elephants]

180. Where is the US well liked today?

[ixion]

25. *facepalm*... another FBI "set'em up and knock'em down" thing

how very unimpressive.

[HuckleB]

146. Yawn. Another knee-jerk response to the FBI doing its job.

Look in the mirror, and then bang your head. Try to think before you respond next time.

[ixion]

149. "However, the supposed explosive was a dummy that had been supplied to him by FBI operatives"

Gee, just like they did in Miami... and Chicago, and so on.

Have some more Kool-Aid®.

[HuckleB]

157. Your illogical responses, sans the majority of the story, don't change reality.

You've made your own kool-aid, and you certainly appear to be pounding it, and hard.

[ixion]

190. pray tell, what is "illogical" about quoting the article, and then citing past examples

But, then, I guess I shouldn't waste my time arguing with people who put party above all else.

[HuckleB]

200. And yet another logical fallacy is offered up.

Quoting without context, or any logical comparison is meaningless and illogical.

Your selective focus on your preconceived notions serves no good purpose.

[ixion]

221. Yeah, right...

Whatever. As I said, no sense arguing with someone who put politics over the truth.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

36. And the winner

for silliest nonsequiter post on the thread...

Envelope, Please...

[PSPS]

30. See? We told you! Now, shut up and take off your clothes!

We will be right back with the next segment of "terror plots thought up and then 'thwarted' by the FBI" right after a word from our sponsor, the TSA. At the TSA, we work hard to keep you safe, one latex glove at a time!

[sarcasmo]

31. Overlords thanks for keeping me safe, please take away more of my rights.

Does it really need a sarcasm tag?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

38. Yep

Entrapment is a time-honored USAmerican "law enforcement" technique...

Along with "resisting arrest" and "felony conspiracy"...

If you can't catch someone breaking a law, make it up...

[uppityperson]

118. except he'd contacted people in Pakistan and undercover agents looking to buy

explosives. Which wasn't entrapment but lucky it was undercover guys and not people with real explosives.

[Green_Lantern]

215. the agents are the ones who contacted him after he emailed

The Pakistani man. We don't know what was in the emails and until we do I'm not assuming he is guilty.

[24601]

121. It's not entrapment if the "alleged" perp is predisposed to commit

the act. But what the hey, "Bitch set me up" is a tried & true defense - go for it and rally the usual supporters.

[ProudDad]

33. Smoke screen -- more manufactured bullshit fluff from the Empire

while our pockets are being picked by the Ubber-rich...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9638649

And our planet is being destroyed for short-term profit...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9638669

[kgnu_fan]

37. thwarts??? true terrorist is the one who made this set up. crazy world!!!

[uppityperson]

41. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

If someone is stopped from doing a horrific act, he was trapped, goaded, didn't really mean to do it and is an example of how far down the slippery slope we have gone.

If someone manages to do a horrific act, it shows how poorly we are able to prevent such things and shows how far down the slippery slope we have gone.

Glad they got him, sounds like he was very willing to hurt a lot of people. Everything is not a slippery slope.

[HuckleB]

144. EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY!

[Democat]

148. That is the crux of the TSA issue right now as well.

No one wants to be searched when they get on an airplane, but if an airplane blows up, they'll be the first to blame the government for not having better security.

[ProudDad]

169. How about doing something about the CAUSES

of this sort of desire...

(Hint: the Empire)

Instead of trying to piss out the forest fire of blowback the Empire creates...?

[uppityperson]

186. Of course.It isn't an either/or thing.cannot stop people from harming others, best way to try is to

give them options other than "we will kill you". Of course prevention includes helping other countrys get what they need and want for health care, education, jobs, food, water, shelter, etc etc etc.

I also didn't address dogs getting killed in shelters or genetically modified corn (sorry, that was sarcasm).

But undercover work like this is also a good thing.

[No Elephants]

181. you are conflating "goading" and "stopping."

I agree with arresting this guy, but not with that conflation.

[uppityperson]

185. Sounds like they gave him multiple options, tried to steer him to less violent

things but he persisted in wanting to kill as many people sa he could. I don't see the FBI as "goading" him but the opposite. Trying to persuade him to not do this, then follow along and see what he did.

I missed putting apostrophes in the post you are replying to. Does this make more sense?
If someone is stopped from doing a horrific act, he was "trapped, goaded, didn't really mean to do it" and "is an example of how far down the slippery slope we have gone". I meant this is what people have said about this man and I disagree.

[RaleighNCDUer]

189. "tried to steer him to less violent things"

by providing the explosives, building the bombs, testing the bomb with him?

How about, when he says he wants to do something like that, saying "I don't want to fuck with anything like that - haven't you ever heard of Homeland Securithy?" and then putting him under close surveillance to see if he follows through on his own.

Intent and capability are two very different things, and that is the difference between 'capturing' and 'entrapment'.

[HuckleB]

201. Thank you for choosing to ignore the full story, and pretending that you have any perspective.

Bzzzzzzzzt.

[Green_Lantern]

216. you're missing the entire point...

The FBI admittedly set up every detail of this attack and put the trigger in the hands of a disturbed kid.

Secondly why are there no recordings of him telling agents he wanted to harm many people?/

[Demstud]

227. Comes with the territory

People get so overwhelmed with hearing of politicians plotting against Americans that even rather mundane events start looking like conspiracies regardless of if the evidence is there. The fact a lot of FBI and police are normal citizens who want to fight crime and protect us, not enemy agents plotting to take away your freedoms.

[kpete]

43. Failed Oregon 'terror' an FBI setup: Undercover agents gave teen live explosives for 'test run,'

Source: Raw Story

FBI apparently set up US teen blamed for fake car bomb
Failed Oregon 'terror' an FBI setup: Undercover agents gave teen live explosives for 'test run,' planned attack AND supplied fake car bomb

By Stephen C. Webster
Saturday, November 27th, 2010 -- 4:08 pm


An Somali-born, American teenager was apparently set up by federal law enforcement officials who posed as radical Islamic fighters and lured the young man into a plot he believed would lead him to detonate a car bomb at an Oregon Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

The bomb, provided by FBI agents, was "inert" and did not pose a threat to public safety, according to the US Attorney's Office in Oregon.

Oddly enough, Arthur Balizan, an FBI agent in Oregon, contradicted the US Attorney's Office, suggesting that the threat posed by 19-year-old Mohamed Osman Mohamud "was very real."

Except: " every turn," he explained, "we denied him the ability to actually carry out the attack."

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/fbi-apparently-set-teen-blamed-fake-car-bomb/

[redirish28]

44. Just like the Pizza bombing at the military base a while back. and a couple other cases.

This is just sick.

[Taverner]

45. Is it me or do these 'Jihadis' seem stupider and stupider?

Between this guy, the NYC Times Square Canadian Idol Jihadi and my favorite, the two DOCTORS in Scotland who tried to burn down an airport by driving a truck full of gas into the airport. Only they didn't and couldn't get past the barriers, and they burned themselves, everyone else was unharmed.

Really? Is this the Wahabbist's best and brightest? Oh wait - to be bright or intelligent, you'd have to use critical thinking skills - and I don't think there's any part of Fundamentalist religion that allows that.

[DeadEyeDyck]

168. with unemployment being what it is...

these kids are not able to find better work.

[No Elephants]

183. Have you read many religious philosophers?

For that matter, rhere weren't any flies on Jesus (or at least the words the NT attributes to Jesus). As described in the Bible, he seems like an intelligent man who thought critically, especially for circa 30 C.E.

There are many bases for criticizing religion, fundamental and otherwise, but I do not agree that total absence of intelligent folk is one of them.

Btw, is this teen a wahabbist? I did not see that in the article.

[snooper2]

206. "to be bright or intelligent, you'd have to use critical thinking skills"

"I don't think there's any part of Fundamentalist religion that allows that."


You know, I would probably take that a step further but then the worshippers would come down on me with the wrath of god :rofl:



Very good point that will be lost on most here.

[Judi Lynn]

46. Sounds like the pattern the FBI used in Miami to trap "the Liberty Seven"

Liberty City Seven Trial Travesty
The case against Miami “terrorists” is mired in greed and falsehoods.
By Bob Norman Thursday, Nov 22 2007

One extorted $7,000 from a friend who raped his girlfriend and then, after accepting the money, beat her up and went to jail. The other failed an FBI polygraph test while working on an undercover investigation, which one former FBI agent says should have disqualified him from ever working for the government again. Oh, and he was also once charged with roughing up a woman.

And these are supposed to be the good guys.

All of America has heard about the bizarre Liberty City Seven terrorism trial now winding down at the federal courthouse in Miami. It began with the arrest of seven members of an obscure religious sect in June last year. At a nationally televised news conference, then-U.S. Attorney Alberto Gonzalez told the country that the dirt-poor black defendants were prepared to "wage a full ground war on the United States."

It made for a sensational sound bite — and a temporary diversion for the administration, a moment of seeming victory in the war on terror, a fleeting quiet place in the growing public clamor about illegal wiretaps and the growing disaster in Iraq. But FBI brass was a bit more realistic. They cautioned that the ineffectual group was "more aspirational than operational." Today that even seems a bit overstated. Forget about America; this was a ragtag group that couldn't wage a ground war on a jar of peppercorns.

More:
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2007-11-22/news/liberty-city-seven-trial-travesty/

[yurbud]

47. it isn't dangerous to be a gullible nitwit AND Muslim at the same time in America at the moment.

Sort of like being black, poor AND retarded and accused of murder here: you might as well go straight to the electric chair.

For the gullible Muslim, pay your own way to Gitmo and you might avoid some of the front end unpleasantries and sodomizing.

[uppityperson]

50. I'd say gullible nitwit and someone who wants to hurt a lot of people.

If you are seriously trying to make a bomb and blow up a bunch of people, glad if you are caught.

[uppityperson]

48. Dupe, and here is a link to the FBI statement. He was willing to kill many people.

http://portland.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/pd112610.htm

According to the affidavit, the undercover FBI operatives cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of this plan, noting there would be many people at the event, including many children, and emphasized that Mohamud could abandon his attack plans at any time with no shame. “You know there’s gonna be a lot of children there?” an undercover FBI operative asked Mohamud. According to the affidavit, Mohamud responded that he was looking for a “huge mass that will...be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays.” Further discussing the attack, Mohamud allegedly stated, “...it’s in Oregon; and Oregon like you know, nobody ever thinks about it.”

The affidavit alleges that in subsequent months, Mohamud continued to express his interest in carrying out the attack and worked on logistics. He allegedly identified a location to place the bomb and mailed bomb components to the undercover FBI operatives, who he believed were assembling the device. He also mailed them passport photos, as part of a plan to help him sneak out of the country after the attack. In addition, Mohamud provided the undercover FBI operatives with a thumb drive that contained detailed directions to the bomb location and operational instructions for the attack.

According to the affidavit, on November 4, 2010, Mohamud and the undercover FBI operatives traveled to a remote location in Lincoln County, Ore., where they detonated a bomb concealed in a backpack as a trial run for the upcoming attack. Afterwards, on the drive back to Corvallis, undercover FBI operatives questioned Mohamud as to whether he was capable of looking at the bodies of those who would be killed in the upcoming attack in Portland. According to the affidavit, Mohamud responded, “I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured.”

[xchrom]

49. Set up a teenager? How hard can that be?

They're stretching for their 'terrorists' it seems.

[uppityperson]

113. A person willing to blow up a van of explosives in a crowded place isn't a "terrorist"

because undercover agents were working with him, watching him, letting him do what he wanted except not actually hurt people?

What is your definition of terrorist and does being infiltrated by undercover agents mean there is no terrorism possible?

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

123. Hui Cho wasn't white and wasn't stopped.

"impotent indignation"? Heh. Questions, I asked questions. Which you didn't answer but instead insulted and claimed FBI let Columbine happen because....the shooters were white.

By the way, Hui Cho wasn't white and managed to kill a whole bunch of people in the Virginia Tech massacre.

[Green_Lantern]

217. well it requires intent to harm many people

And there is no recording of him saying he wanted to harm people. If the FBI decided on this location it hurts that intent.

[gkhouston]

122. Again? When are we going to investigate the FBI for their pro-terror tendencies?

Seems like they've planned and supplied every plot that's been uncovered for the last decade.

[avaistheone1]

136. Turn the porno scanners and the pat downs on the FBI and then throw them in jail.

WTF We are paying them to create terrorists. Furthermore this is not the first time the FBI has tried to setup vulnerable people to act as terrorists. How insane they are.

[SecularMotion]

51. Somali-Born Teenager Held in Oregon Bomb Sting

Source: NY Times

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Federal agents in a sting operation arrested a Somali-born teenager just as he tried blowing up a van he believed was loaded with explosives at a crowded Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland, authorities said.

The bomb was an elaborate fake supplied by the agents and the public was never in danger, authorities said.

Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, was arrested at 5:40 p.m. Friday just after he dialed a cell phone that he thought would set off the blast but instead brought federal agents and police swooping down on him.

Yelling "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" — Mohamud tried to kick agents and police after he was taken into custody, according to prosecutors.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/us/28portland.html?hp

---

link updated

[Xenotime]

52. Shit, shit shit.

[Fiendish Thingy]

53. Once again, America is kept safe from gullible 19 years olds

who have been set up in fake terror plots to keep us scared and obedient

[dkf]

54. Or would he have bought a gun and started shooting in a shopping mall?

[Mz Pip]

55. Set up?

I'm glad the FBI was on top of this. If he managed to connect with some real materials people would be dead.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

56. The median age in Somalia is 17. 45% of the country is under 14.

"Teenager" is meaningless here.

[Green_Lantern]

218. he's been here since he was 3...so I'm betting he was a typical

American teen.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChazII]

60. +1 n/t

[jamiefoxer]

72. how do you set up

a kid born in the United States with planning a vehicle bomb in retaliation for....what....his cushy life here? the life he wouldn't have had in Somalia?

More like he was misled by someone....but hey...he made the decision to follow what was clearly a criminal track. He now has to pay the consequences.

[boppers]

150. "a kid born in the United States"?

Uh, no.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/police-sting-foils-bomb-plot-at-christmas-lights-ceremony-2439449.html

He was born in Somalia.

[Green_Lantern]

219. yea right..an angst ridden American teen.....no way...

This was an angry disturbed kid pissed at the world and the FBI gave him a terrorist road map.

[bahrbearian]

104. +1

[Odin2005]

57. Entrapment of a gullible teen. What crap.

FEAR, FEAR! TERRA, TERRA! OBEY! :eyes:

[Flatulo]

59. Yeah, 'cause everybody knows that no muslim ever, ever

wanted to kill any infidels.

[sam sarrha]

65. actually they usually use the term "Kafir"...Link>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

"...The Qur'an uses the word kufr to denote a person who covers up or hides realities, one who refuses to accept the dominion and authority of Allāh. There are several types of Al-Kufr ul Akbar:...

[burning rain]

108. You mean they have their own words & stuff, & don't say "infidel" like in English?

Who'da thunk it?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jamiefoxer]

70. sorry

by 19, I knew better than to commit crimes and knew their consequences. Hell, by 12 I knew that.

I did my share of stupid things and yeah, I've probably crossed the criminal line a few times, but it's not planning a vehicle bomb.

He's an adult, he knew enough, and he planned to mass murder people, including children (in fact, the FBI agents asked him about whether or not he was ready to kill children, in an effort to probe his thoughts. His answers were always chilling and remorseless).

I'm no fan of the war of terror and Bush admin's legacy...but this is one sucker that deserves everything that comes his way....as do all legitimate terrorists that are caught.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

89. Wow. Get a clue

I mean, really.

[Codeine]

90. He's hardly a teen.

At nineteen we all know buying a bomb and setting it off near a crowd is pretty much pegging the Evil Shithead Meter at MAX.

[uppityperson]

110. If you try to buy explosives, is it entrapment?

[Democat]

139. He wanted to kill innocent families at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony!

Just another gullible teen, right?

[HuckleB]

140. The evidence before us indicates that there was no entrapment.

There is no basis to make such a claim.

[elleng]

61. 'Patge not found.'

Do want to read the story, as superficially sounds like 'entrapment,' but need more facts. HORRIBLE if it were real and had worked, thankful it wasn't and didn't.

[Ptah]

63. Try this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/11/27/us/AP-US-Portland-Car-Bomb-Plot.html

[elleng]

66. Thanks, and thanks for responding to my less than clear post!

Sounds very real, very scary, and nothing like entrapment. Thanks, again, to the 'good guys,' who really did their job well, it appears.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

69. No, no, no; you don't understand.

This was just a poor, misunderstood teenager who was set up to be persecuted by the mean, fascist FBI so they could have an excuse to do body cavity searches of small children at Christmas.

:sarcasm:

Seriously, I'm glad they busted the murderous bastard.

[elleng]

78. ...

:)

:thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

111. exactly, thank you

I am glad also.

[SecularMotion]

64. The link has been updated nt

[PSPS]

62. This must a new reality show. You know, entirely scripted.

The FBI sets everything up and, then, "swoops in" just in time to "thwart" the "attack."

I guess I better get naked now.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capitalocracy]

114. So the best way to prevent a terrorist attack

is to find all the people who might be vulnerable to influence by jihadists, convince them you are a jihadist, convince them to become a jihadist, create a fake terrorist plot, sting operation, off to some hole somewhere (an official prison? a secret prison? who knows?)

I'm pretty sure there must be better ways to keep us safe.

[sam sarrha]

132. YEA....

[Capitalocracy]

133. So why go through the whole charade? Why not just lock them up?

Why don't we just pull all the Muslims in, give them a psychological evaluation, and if it is determined that they might possibly someday in the right conditions under certain circumstances be convinced to take part in a terrorist attack, lock them up forever and/or execute them?

I mean, this is our safety we're talking about here!

[panzerfaust]

154. Oh, I thought you meant lock all TEEN-Agers up

That would reduce crime by much more than locking all Muslims up.

"psychological evaluation?" Ever taken one? Do you have any idea of how bogus and non-reproducible their results are? Psychology strikes me as a pseudo-science, there are about as many theories of the human mind as there are psychologists - with more coming every year.

[Capitalocracy]

176. I don't actually think we should be locking them up

that was just meant to show how bad it is that we're trying to entice kids with dreams of jihad and then locking them up.

[ProudDad]

86. EXACTLY! +1000

More Foma from the National Security State...

And it works on the street in the phony "war on drugs(tm)" too... Cuts those pesky black and brown folk from the voter roles and pumps up the GDP by filling up the courtrooms, jails and prisons

[Raschel]

67. If he wanted to kill people, I'm glad they got him. I wish they would have been onto the Columbine

terrorists this way.

[dixiegrrrrl]

68. Remember that the FBI finally admitted they allowed the Christmas bomber

board the plane from Amsterdam to the US and over rode the no fly list rule for him because they wanted him to lead them to higher ups in the "terror cells".
Not only was he allowed to fly, despite being on a no fly list, he was escorted to the boarding gate.
Notice he came INTO the country from Amsterdam.

NOW they are using his "attempt" as an excuse to physically search everyone boarding planes IN the country.

and I have not seen one word about how he 'led" the FBI to anyone.

so now they set up yet another dim bulb, with a bright arrow pointing to Somalia.

What is in Somalia that the US wants, I wonder?

[Flatulo]

75. I can understand your suspicion of our motives re: Somalia, but

the reality is that it is an utterly failed state with no central government to speak of. It is ruled by warring clans of warlords and Jihadis. It's one of the worst places on earth. It is also a breeding ground for anti-western sentiment.

Sometimes a cigsr is just a cigar.

[conspirator]

71. Another kid payed by the CIA for a false flag operation n/t

[sam sarrha]

74. better played by us than "them"

[Codeine]

91. Good. Better that we play the evil little shit with a fake bomb

before he gets contacted by some Somalis or Pakistanis with actual bombs - or just figures out how to build one himself, because it ain't rocket science - and a crowd of people actually get blown up.

The kid obviously wanted to kill people. Fuck the little asshole.

[bitchkitty]

76. Happy ending!

Slightly sarcastic. It's sad that we live in a world where teenagers, instead of enjoying their youth, are willing to kill other human beings to advance a political or religious agenda.

That said, if we didn't have such a fucked up foreign policy, that boy would probably just be another teenage boy, enjoying his youth. I am glad that the crowd was not in danger, and that nobody lost their lives.

But in other countries, the people are in danger, and they are losing their lives - because of our fucked up foreign policy.

[Flatulo]

77. I'm curious - in what ways do you think the USA has messed with Somalia?

It's my understanding that they are a failed sate with no functioning government and a never-ending civil war.

I remember the debacle in '92 when the UN relief mission went amuck and a number of US Rangers were killed while trying to apprehend a warlord who was hijacking food shipments. But in what other ways have we messed with them? They don't have any oil or minerals, to my knowledge.

[bitchkitty]

81. Well, there were the bombings in 2007.

And the warlords funded by Bush.

[Flatulo]

94. The US shelled a militant camp in the mountains, with the support

of the Somali 'government'. There was also a missile attack on a car full of suspected militants. After the routing of the Taliban, lot's of militants purportedly made their way to Somalia to set up an Islamic state.

I think we've largely left them to their own state of anarchy. We certainly don't have any economic interests there.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

79. What if the NYT article had said this -- just a couple of little changes:

An Alabama teenager attempting to detonate what he believed was a car bomb at a packed Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in downtown Portland, Ore., was arrested by the authorities on Friday night. They had spent nearly six months tracking him and setting up a sting operation, officials in Oregon said.

The bomb, which was in a van parked off Pioneer Courthouse Square, was a fake — planted by F.B.I. agents as part of the elaborate sting — but “the threat was very real,” said Arthur Balizan, the F.B.I.’s special agent in charge in Oregon. An estimated 10,000 people were at the ceremony on Friday night, the Portland police said.

Mr. Balizan identified the suspect as Billy Bob Smith, 19, an Alabama native who lived in Corvallis, Ore., and is believed to have ties to white supremacist organizations. He was charged with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction.

“Our investigation shows that Smith was absolutely committed to carrying out an attack on a very grand scale,” Mr. Balizan said in a statement released by the Department of Justice.

An affidavit filed in the Oregon case indicates that the F.B.I. learned early on of Mr. Smith’s desire to plot violence. His planning unfolded under the scrutiny and even assistance of undercover agents, officials said.

The F.B.I. said that during the sting operation, Mr. Smith repeatedly expressed his desire to kill black people. Reminded by F.B.I. agents posing as accomplices that many children and families would be at the Christmas tree-lighting ceremony, Mr. Smith said that he was looking for “a huge mass” that could “be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays,” according to the F.B.I.

Undercover agents F.B.I. first came into contact with Mr. Smith in June, and repeatedly asked him if he was prepared to go through with the bombing at Pioneer Courthouse Square.

“I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured,” Mr. Smith told the agents, according to the affidavit.

At the end of September, Mr. Smith mailed bomb components to agents he thought were fellow white supremacists who would assemble the device. On Nov. 4, the agents traveled with Mr. Smith to a remote location in Lincoln County, Ore., where they detonated a bomb as a trial run.

Mr. Smith is scheduled to appear in federal court in Portland on Monday and faces a maximum sentence of life in prison.

If these were the facts would anybody be talking about a gullible teenager who had been duped by the FBI? Or would we be calling for his head on a pike?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

92. I think we all know the answer.....

....and it's fucking sad. Progressives turning a blind eye to potential violence or yukking it off as the folly of misguided youth because it makes them uncomfortable to call it out for what it is.......just fucking sad.

[renate]

106. you made the point perfectly

I have nothing to add but :thumbsup:

[Psephos]

109. A well-needed injection of perspective. n/t

[roxiejules]

134. He enjoyed 9/11

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2010/11/mohamed_mohamud_planned_violen.html

Those concerns about entrapment -- which are sure to be raised by Mohamud’s lawyers -- are difficult to hold on to, however, if Mohamud really told FBI operatives that he enjoyed watching people jump to their deaths from the Twin Towers on Sept. 11, 2001.

“I want to see that,” he said, according to the affidavit. “That’s what I want for these people.”

[Democat]

141. Can't believe how many people are defending this guy.

If what the articles say is true, he went seeking murder. Luckily, someone turned him over to the FBI before he found a real terrorist. That doesn't make him less of an evil person.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

192. I'm not

There are some real sick pups on DU, sadly, who think everything is a conspiracy and a setup unless of course the perp might be carrying it out for a movement they despise. If he had actually gotten a hold of a real bomb and killed people, the replies would be even more appalling.

[snooper2]

207. A lot of folks are blinded by their hatred of anything US...

and when it comes to the government or the dreaded FBI the stupid goes off the meter...

[Green_Lantern]

220. that's a total ad hom attack...

This isn't some secret conspiracy, the FBI admittedly provided money, explosives, and mapped out a target.

Then they say he told them he wanted to kill many people on recordings they can't find.

[RaleighNCDUer]

193. I'd say the same damn thing - the FBI has no business providing explosives

and technical expertise to wannabe terrorists.

His contacting them, thinking they were sympatheic, was grounds enough to start 24/7 surveillance, tapping his phones, hacking his computer, and putting a GPS on his car so they'd know every move he made. If he then went on to build a bomb himself, without FBI help (and without blowing himself up) THEN they could bust him with no possible 'entrapment' complications - an open and shut case.

That they didn't do that is just proof they were playing politics with the so-called War On Terror.

Of course, if he had NOT gotten encouragemnet and logistical support from the government, he just might give it up as a bad idea - couldn't have THAT happen.

[uppityperson]

194. And if he blew himself up taking others with him? Then there would be lots of finger wagging

as to why didn't they stop him. From what I read they didn't give him encouragement but tried to discourage him. I don't think the FBI is running around recruiting people, giving them explosives then arresting them. They are needing to be much more watchful than that now. Though I also well understand distrust of them.

[slackmaster]

198. Please add me to the "calling for his head on a pike" group

:hi:

[onehandle]

80. The Obama era is still kicking the Bush era's ass on 'homeland' terrorist attacks. nt

[elleng]

82. ...

:thumbsup:

[Mz Pip]

85. Imagine if he had

been able to go through with his plot; if he had connected with people who had access to real bomb making equipment. Imagine if he detonated the damn thing and a few dozen people were killed.

Not only would there be many families and loved ones suffering, we would have Dickwad and Lizard Cheney hitting all the talk shows ginning up the meme that Obama is a failure when it comes to keeping us safe.

Good for the FBI and our undercover operations.

[ProudDad]

87. Those who don't remember history

are condemned to repeat it...

[timo]

126. yup

and on drone attacks as well!!!!

[ProudDad]

83. Can you say "entrapment", children...

Another product of the National Security State apparatus of the Corporate States of America...

Entrapment of gullible youth to add to busting potheads...

Cute...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4630346&mesg_id=4630346

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

88. "Gullible youth," my ass.

[ProudDad]

96. Truth

"Recent developments in the area of brain research are especially encouraging for parents of teens. In years past, it was assumed that a child’s brain was fully formed somewhere between the ages of eight and 12. New scientific and research advances, along with the use of Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) technologies, show that the brain is an organ that grows and transitions, just like the adolescent to whom the brain belongs. The brain itself is going through a period of growth between puberty and young adulthood. In addition, the brain’s hardware and software go through a process of “wiring” or “pruning” during the teen years. The brain’s Limbic system is the area deep within the brain that generates emotions, including rage and fear. With hormones surging and raging during adolescence, the limbic system is affected in ways that can intensify aggressive emotions, particularly in boys.

"Research shows that the brain’s pre-frontal cortex is the last part of the brain to develop. This is the area of the brain that controls planning, organizing, judging consequences, self-control and emotional regulation. Laurence Steinberg, an expert on brain development at Temple University, says, “The parts of the brain responsible for things like sensation seeking are getting turned on in big ways around the time of puberty, but the parts for exercising judgment are still maturing throughout the course of adolescence. So you’ve got this time gap between when things impel kids toward taking risks in early adolescence, and when things that allow people to think before they act come online. It’s like turning on the engine of a car without a skilled driver at the wheel.” When all is said and done, the brain may not be fully formed until our teenagers reach the age of 24 or 25 years old!"

http://www.cpyu.org/Page.aspx?id=256283


That's why the fucking military scoops up children -- they're easily turned into killing machines...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

99. At 18 you're considered an adult and responsible for your actions.

Maybe you're more inclined to do stupid, impulsive things until you reach 25, but that doesn't mean you can't be held to account for anything you do until then. In the case of this guy, looks like the FBI gave him plenty of opportunity to back away from his plan, which wasn't impulsive at all, but was carefully thought-out. The fact that teenagers tend to be more impulsive than adults doesn't mean that they are incapable of planning. I see no excuses for this murderous creep's actions -- he was all set to kill hundreds of people, including children, and had been plotting to do it for months.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

93. What actual information do you have that he wasn't serious about carrying this out

I'll wait......won't hold my breath, though.

The fact that your comparing this asshole wanting to blow up children with a pot bust tells me it's pointless to expect much from you.

[ProudDad]

97. Truth

"Recent developments in the area of brain research are especially encouraging for parents of teens. In years past, it was assumed that a child’s brain was fully formed somewhere between the ages of eight and 12. New scientific and research advances, along with the use of Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) technologies, show that the brain is an organ that grows and transitions, just like the adolescent to whom the brain belongs. The brain itself is going through a period of growth between puberty and young adulthood. In addition, the brain’s hardware and software go through a process of “wiring” or “pruning” during the teen years. The brain’s Limbic system is the area deep within the brain that generates emotions, including rage and fear. With hormones surging and raging during adolescence, the limbic system is affected in ways that can intensify aggressive emotions, particularly in boys.

"Research shows that the brain’s pre-frontal cortex is the last part of the brain to develop. This is the area of the brain that controls planning, organizing, judging consequences, self-control and emotional regulation. Laurence Steinberg, an expert on brain development at Temple University, says, “The parts of the brain responsible for things like sensation seeking are getting turned on in big ways around the time of puberty, but the parts for exercising judgment are still maturing throughout the course of adolescence. So you’ve got this time gap between when things impel kids toward taking risks in early adolescence, and when things that allow people to think before they act come online. It’s like turning on the engine of a car without a skilled driver at the wheel.” When all is said and done, the brain may not be fully formed until our teenagers reach the age of 24 or 25 years old!"

http://www.cpyu.org/Page.aspx?id=256283


That's why the fucking military scoops up children -- they're easily turned into killing machines...

[ProudDad]

102. Same group manufacturing the events...

Pretty good comparison...

It's all bullshit fluff anyway...

Thanks for playing... :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4630586&mesg_id=4631036

[HuckleB]

158. So red herring city, and ignoring information is the way to go for you?

:shrug:

[ProudDad]

171. You can't seem to tell the difference between CAUSES of events

and "red herrings"...

Too bad...

:shrug:

[Capitalocracy]

131. Of course he was serious about carrying out the attack

But would he have been serious about carrying out an attack without the FBI agents making him think he was part of a jihadist group? Or would he have just gotten a job and given up on his jihad fantasies in a few years?

And more importantly, regardless of what you think of a muslim with extremist tendencies, should we be locking them up even if they don't commit crimes? And how many steps away is this from doing that? It's taking someone who had yet to commit any crimes and holding their hand and guiding them down a criminal path. Should we arrest people who are plotting attacks? Of course! Should we be the ones creating fake organizations and attempt to CREATE criminals and then grab them? I don't think so.

How long will it be until we convince someone to become a jihadist only to discover that they've received a better offer from the actual terrorists, and end up going and executing a real terrorist attack? What will you think about this wonderful plan then?

[Democat]

156. What if he has been contacting people to kill his wife?

Should the police do a sting if they get a tip that some guy is looking to have his wife killed, or should they just wait until after the wife is dead - or hope that he might just give up on the idea eventually?

It sounds like he was contacting terrorists groups asking for help to kill people. At some point, it stops being entrapment and turns into undercover police work.

[Capitalocracy]

177. Undercover police work is meant to catch criminals for crimes they've committed

and part of that, of course, is preventing further crimes from being committed.

Now, I've read some articles on this, and while they all mention that there are Somalis in the U.S. who are connected with terrorist organizations, etc., none of the ones I've read have said this kid actually contacted one. Please feel free to provide a link and correct me on that.

This isn't like going after someone who they've gotten a tip is looking to kill his wife and has been asking around for hitmen, which is already conspiracy to commit murder. This is more like finding someone you've heard is pissed off at his wife, contacting him, making friends with him, and dropping him little hints like hey, you know, you could just get rid of her... maybe you'd be better off without her... but if you divorce her, she'll take all your money, maybe you should just kill her... hey I know a guy who could help you kill her...

We're taking people who are just angry youth, or who are just Muslim in general (they've done the same thing with people who had zero interest in terrorist attacks but had someone lend them money and made it look like they were money laundering for terrorist operations) and manufacturing criminals to make themselves look good. Who knows what this kid would've done if these undercover agents weren't prodding him on? Yeah, if he was contacting terrorist organizations, it's definitely a good idea to keep an eye on the kid... but arrest the guy if he plans his own terrorist attack. Don't plan it for him and then expect a fucking medal for preventing it.

[ProudDad]

170. What actual information do you have that he was?

The word of the creatures implementing the Empire's National Security State...

Whose livelihood and salaries require them to come up with a "terrorist" once in a while to keep the game going?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

191. LOL...you keep coming back to reply to one post over and over

I must of really gotten to you, even if I'm clearly not as brilliant about seeing the big conspiracy like you are.

[RaleighNCDUer]

204. What actual information do you have that he had any capability of carrying this out

without the technical & logistical support of the FBI?

[HuckleB]

143. Hogwash.

Try paying attention rather than offering up knee-jerk BS.

[HuckleB]

202. No, child, it's not entrapment, just because you want it to be.

[leftynyc]

205. You have no idea what

that word means. Sting-yes, Entrapment-not even a little bit. Try a dictionary rather than cute little pics.

[ProudDad]

95. Smoke screen -- more manufactured bullshit fluff from the Empire

while our pockets are being picked by the Ubber-rich...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9638649

And our planet is being destroyed for short-term profit...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9638669

[ProudDad]

98. More actual facts

http://zimbardo.socialpsychology.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

And the most telling:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/12/19/in-repeat-of-milgrams-electric-shock-experiment-people-still-pull-the-lever/

Almost any teenager could be convinced to do almost anything by "authority figures"...

In fact, almost any of the USAmerikan Sheeple can be convinced to do almost anything if it fits their warped world-view...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

100. So you would change the law so that nobody could be held responsible for a crime

until they reach the age of 25? Just hand a 22-year-old serial killer a balloon and a lollipop and send him home with Mom and Dad? A 19-year-old who plans to blow up a gathering of 10,000 people, including little kids, gets probation?

Makes sense to me.

:eyes:

[ProudDad]

101. Strawman!

beneath contempt...

Not what I'm saying...

[Lasher]

147. It's pretty close.

You're not making any sense, and you're defending an adult who did his best to commit mass murder.

[ProudDad]

172. Nope, I'm pointing out the futility of the National Security State... (n/t)

[Lasher]

188. I have given your 'neener neener' response appropriate consideration.

I don't think you're being real. And for your sake I hope I'm right.

[snooper2]

208. So do you believe in the thermite theory?

or CGI planes?

[roxiejules]

103. The Affidavit

Mohamed Mohamud, The Affidavit: "I Will Be a Martyr in the Highest Chambers of Paradise."

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2010/11/27/mohammed-mohamud-the-affidavit-i-will-be-a-martyr-in-the-highest-chambers-of-paradise

http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2010/11/27/1290879421-affidavit.pdf - FBI affidavit

[bahrbearian]

105. So the FBI sets up a ring of fake Terrorist ,that promote terror to

entrap a would be terrorist, while promoting terror. Then uses that arrest as a reason to kill would be terrorist, in other countries that we exported terror too.

[uppityperson]

112. You have a problem with undercover work? This guy was seriously trying to hurt people

http://portland.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/pd112610.htm
He contacted people in Pakistan to get help. He pushed the button that would, he thought, blow up people. We was willing to hurt a lot of people, children included.

He was stopped by undercover work and so this makes it all wrong?

Where do you get they killed him? "Then uses that arrest as a reason to kill would be terrorist"

[panzerfaust]

153. Without the encouragement and help of our federal agents,

would this guy have been anything but just another self-righteous unhappy religious hater filled with the Truth and Light of His Mission of Faith?

There is 'undercover work,' then there is 'entrapment.'

My reading of the article is that it was the FBI who contacted this fool, who provided the 'bomb,' the van, the parking spot (OK - the Oregon police kept the parking spot open). Would he have done all this himself? Could he have done all this himself? Clearly, I do not know.

If so, then it strikes me as odd that the FBI had to do some much of the foot-work. On the other hand, perhaps he would have been able to get it all together & perhaps the FBI really did prevent a tragedy - so good for them.

The government does, however, seem to have a much better record at thwarting those plots which it has instigated itself - leaving aside those that it does not wish to stop.

Oh. Sorry. Yes, my tin hat is sticking out again.

911/Fear/DuctTape/Fear/Wiretaps/Fear ... the new America.

[uppityperson]

166. Here's another article from SeattleTimes. Sounds like they tried to steer him

away, gave him lots of chances to do something else but this is what he wanted to do. The fool contacted the FBI, from what I read.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013540712_portlandbomb28.html

It can be very difficult to tell what is tinfoil time, what is real. Sometimes things are real and this appears to be one od those times.

[ProudDad]

173. By George, I think you've got it!

:hi:

[burning rain]

107. Must be an Episcopalian.

You know those crazies...

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boppers]

151. "Least expect it"?

We get bombings in Oregon about every year or two, the bank bomber trial is underway, the pipe bomber trial is over, I think.... dunno, it's no biggie here.

There's a few reasons Portland is called "Little Beirut".

It's not the weather.

[Freetradesucks]

117. Yeah. Sure. Whatever!

[HuckleB]

138. Grow up.

[Freetradesucks]

163. The brown people are planning another bombing,

that we intercepted at the last minute! Thank gawd!

You need to grow up and open your eyes!

[uppityperson]

195. That is as idiotic as those who say "brown people" could never do anything bad

Just as bad as those who blame every Muslim for the actions of fanatics. Or every Christian for the actions of fanatics.

[Freetradesucks]

196. I don't think so...

I think it's another in a long line of false alarms.

Why do you think this one is legitimate and the Bush era "catches" were made up?

[HuckleB]

203. My eyes are open.

Your posts indicate that your world view is blinded to reality.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWatcher]

135. Another Day, Another....

Now, Go Hide Under Your Beds, America, and scream for more measures to "keep you safe."

What A Fucking Joke.

[Delphinus]

152. Love your flag graphic.

So appropriate in many places.

[robcon]

155. Thank God they caught him

The death and destruction would have been horrific.

[ProudDad]

174. The "death and destruction"

were a fiction created by the creatures of the National Security State in order to pad their "creds"...

[Ter]

162. At a tree lighting?

So it was a hate crime, an attempted attack on Christianity.

[Desertrose]

175. Good point. Makes sense...hate crime?

Hmmmm....

[No Elephants]

182. Self delete

[uppityperson]

222. Not necessarily. Many non-Christians attend community tree lightings

It was an attempted attack on a large group of people who gathered in a community event.

[Ter]

223. Would you say the same if it was a menorah lighting?

It is for Christians. Non-Christians are welcome, just like non-Jews are welcome at the menorah lighting. If it were the other way around and a Christian yelled "Jesus is great" at a hugely popular Muslim gathering, it would certainly be considered an act of hate.

Either use the existing hate crime laws, or repeal them altogether.

[No Elephants]

178. Is it hard to "thwart" a plan you engineered? I am not opposed to arresting this guy and trying him

On the one hand, this smacks of the kind of tactics that tread a thin line just this side of entrapment. Those are always distasteful to one degree or another to most civil libertarians. And, there are always questions of would this person ever have done anything wrong if fit were not for the action of "law enforcement?" And, why was this particular person chosen for this form of "law enforcement?" *cough* Murtha *cough*

On the other hand, if FBI agents were able to recruit him, then Al Qaida probably would have been able to as well. And, regardless of who recruited him, apparently, he was more than willing to kill many families. (Assuming the FBI affidavit is gospel, which is not always a safe assumption, by any means).

However, all of that is very separate from whether anyone deserves to be credited for "thwarting" a plan in whose concoctio he or she participated--perhaps led. Regardless of any other issue, I find that aspect ludicrous.

In any event, I'm reserving my "thwarting" applause for those occasions when our law enforcement ferrets out and prevents an attack in whose planning our law enforcement did not participate in any way.

[uppityperson]

187. Except he wasn't recruited by FBI, opposite way. HE recruited FBI.

From what I read he went to a person whom he thought could help him. That person was undercover FBI (maybe not the exact right term, but you know what i mean). FBI gave him alternatives, tried to steer him to other options but HE was insisten upon blowing up a whole bunch of people.

Unless you have other info that shows the FBI recruited him, everything I have read says the opposite. I'd be happy to read info if you have it.

[rug]

184. Here come full body scans on the line to see Santa.

[slackmaster]

197. I am shocked that the perpetrator wasn't a little old lady, or a young child

Or a 61-year-old man with a urostomy.

[goforit]

209. This is why you will be molested and stripped in public at the airport.