Obama announces pay freeze for federal workers

[annabanana]

Source: Washington Post

Bowing to Republican political pressure and growing budget concerns, President Obama will announce a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers Monday, according to administration sources.

The freeze applies to all federal employees -- including civilian employees of the Defense Department, and will not impact step increases or bonuses for federal workers, according to sources.

The administration had examined pay levels, "and the data we get back indicates that high-skilled workers in government are slightly underpaid. Lower-skilled workers are slightly overpaid relative to the private sector," Obama said.

"And that's not surprising," he added, "because it's a unionized workforce" in government, while the private sector's typically is not.



Read more: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/11/obama_announces_pay_freeze_for.html

---

Howzabout we get the vaunted private sector to cough up a little more in the pay envelope instead? The stockholders and corporate officers have been running away with the store.

[GodlessBiker]

1. If it's a unionized workforce, doesn't he have to negotiate the pay freeze?

Or am I being naive?

[annabanana]

3. They freeze first, negotiate later. . .n/t

[wolfgirl]

4. Yes we are unionized;

however, Congress/President may freeze our pay at their whim. It's happened many a time over the years (usually under a GOP admin).

It should be noted that there will be no freeze on the increase in our healthcare & insurance premiums during this time. And, it should also be noted that generally our pay raises barely meet the increased costs in those premiums so we see very little increase in our actual paychecks.

[Creative]

88. Yes, but you have a job that you cannot be fired from.

That should be worth something.

[atreides1]

92. Wrong

Federal workers can be fired...it may take a little more to do it then in the private sector...but it can and has happened.

I know this for a fact, because two guys I worked with were fired from their positions and before the job openings were announced the agency I work for made them into what is called a donated position from the federal postiton that it was.

[Ginto]

97. I bet they were fired for something good too :).

What was it?

[pipoman]

104. Sounds as reasonable as no COLA for

Social Security recipients...their insurance and cost of living in general aren't frozen either..

[CreekDog]

15. Misleading to say it's a unionized workforce when talking about pay --unions can't bargain for pay

congress sets the pay levels and that's that.

[xchrom]

2. sigh. nt

[indepat]

5. Winning the hearts and minds of groups one at a time: first the professional left, then liberals,

then progressives, then anyone who is on social security or some day will be, now Federal workers. Are we going for some sort of a landslide or what? :shrug:

[savalez]

36. What would McCain have done?

[indepat]

72. This and then some, then a whole lot more, but either way: we is royally f*cked 'cause there is no

significant wing of any party left of pretty far center right. Middle class Americans must swallow a substantially lower standard of living so the unpunished architects, engineers, and perpetrators of the multi-trillion dollar fraud can be bailed out with their bonuses of $144 billion left intact and the uber-wealthy can have their tax cuts. ;)

[indepat]

73. P.S. All this in aggregate will cause a significant drop in consumer spending, a likely negative

growth in GDP down the road, a decelerating tax base and revenues, and it all will feed upon itself as America likely further spirals to or near the bottom in all meaningful measures of quality of life among industrialized nations. Now who says this is not some great kind of country or what? ;)

[No Elephants]

129. Please be more reverent when you speak of the plutonomy or we'll think you unpatriotic.

Hushed tones, bowed head, the whole nine yars.

Real Americans defend it, even at DU. So, shape up!

[Creative]

90. The same thing. Some decisions are a no-brainer.

[ProudDad]

116. Right...

fucking over workers is a "no-brainer", eh?

[No Elephants]

130. LOL

[ProudDad]

115. About the same, about the same...

When it comes to the capitalist system, they're two sides of the same coin...

[Hawkowl]

120. The SAME

So your point is there really is no difference in policy between the two? I tend to agree with you.

[cstanleytech]

133. Oh there is one major difference over McCain losing and Obama winning

and that is Palin isnt the VP, for that all of america should be happy for.
After all if she could blunder so badly on simple basic interviews imagine how bad she would have done as VP.

[No Elephants]

132. I take your point and wryness, but we really can't know for ceretain what Pres. McCain would have

done. Even if Sen. McCain expresses approval or disapproval of this measure, we really can't know for ceretain what Pres. McCain would have. I'd sooner guess about what Pres. William Jefferson Clinton would have, than about what Pres. McCain would have done. At least I have something other than pure speculation to base guesses about how Bubba would act in the Presidency.

Even as to someone who has a track record as President, though, the only thing we can really know for certain about this freeze is what Pres. Obama has done and is doing.

[savalez]

37. oops dupe.

[de novo]

6. Sometimes he can act unilaterally. Who knew?

[activa8tr]

76. I have a long list of ways Obama should act unilaterally, starting with:

Getting Bush and Cheney flown to Holland and indicted.

Outlawing private for-profit health insurance companies.

the list goes on and on!

[No Elephants]

131. What people know and what they are willing to say aloud or write for public

consumption can be two very different things. I not, propaganda and fact would be one and the same.

But, you're correct. There are some who do fall for mythology and are happy to repeat it.

;-)

[katandmoon]

7. Federal employee unions have ZERO effect on federal employee pay.

They pretty much have zero effect on anything, since federal employees are forbidden by law to strike.

But hey, who is going to defend federal employee salaries?

I know one thing as a retired Fed, though... the vast majority are Dems. And Obama just royally pissed them all off.

[No Elephants]

135. Even after Dummya, the majority are Dems? I'm surprised. But, federal employees will

not be the only ones pissed off. ALL unions will be, and so will all union members who still feel solidarity, despite decades of "Ive got mine and now I want yours, too, so the hell with you," coming from the RW.

Also in the "pissed" contingent will be those workers, union or not, who compare what Wall Street, bankers and GM owners got and will get with what workers get.

Dems won at the polls bc there are more workers than multimillionaires. BUT, workers also outnumber union bigwigs. As Democrats move further and further from being pro-worker, their chances at the polls will grow slimmer.

Sure, Dems give more to workers than do Republicans. However, at some point, being somewhat more proworker than the RW is, is just not going to cut it at all.

If both parties seem to favor big business big time, throwing bones to workers won't matter. Workers, like the rich, will vote for the party that convinces them that it will spend and tax less, in the belief that they will at least keep more of that skimpy paycheck.

[Edweird]

8. More RW bullshit from a "dem" president.

[Creative]

87. Actually, it is not RW or LW; this decision is from the reality wing.

The fedgov is out of money.

[dflprincess]

112. Then perhaps he should rethink the money we're wasting in Afghanistan

We'd save a lot more if we got out of there than freezing the pay of working people will.

[Creative]

140. Yes, we should. However, I believe we should reevaluate how quickly we can get out of Iraq first.

Afghanistan is more problematic, but those in charge of running the war will not do the things necessary to win, so we may as well quit. We should also reduce or eliminate our overseas forces in Europe, S. Korea, etc, for we should no longer feel obligated to protect the entire world.

[Skittles]

122. yeah?

how about letting the tax cuts for the obscenely wealthy expire, or letting the WARS expire? HOW ABUT THAT?

[Creative]

141. I agree with you about the wars,

but most economists believe that raising taxes during a recessing is a bad idea.

[Skittles]

146. BULL FUCKING SHIT

taxes on the masses, no - but for the obscenely rich? PLEASE.

[Creative]

151. Why do you hate the rich? They are people with wants, needs and desires just like you.

Our tax system is very progressive.

http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

[Skittles]

152. LOLOLOL

:rofl:

please, go back under the rock you came from

[Creative]

154. Your articulation is improving...

A response without curses.

:hi:

[fascisthunter]

148. Bullshit! Since the 50's we have given tax cuts and things are worse now than ever

When tax was higher we had prosperity and not such a huge gap between the rich and poor.

[Creative]

153. The facts are not on your side, my friend.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/steckel.standard.living.us

Table 1: GDP per Capita in the United States

Year GDP per capita

1820 $1,257

1870 $2,445

1913 $5,301

1950 $9,561

1973 $16,689

1990 $23,214

1998 $27,331

a. Measured in 1990 international dollars.

[fascisthunter]

155. WTF? What was the tax rate in the 50's?

For others who are interested in facts:


" As Beinhart noted in a November 17, 2008 post on the Huffington Post, the massive Republican tax cuts of the 1920s (from 73% to 25%) led directly to the Roaring '20s stock market bubble, temporary boom, and then the crash and Republican Great Depression of 1929.

Rates on the very rich went back up into the 70-90% range from the 1930s to the 1980s. As a result, the economy grew steadily; for the first time in the history of our nation we went 50 years without a crash or major bank failure; and working people's wages increased enough to produce the strongest middle class this nation has ever seen.

Then came Reaganomics."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-hartmann/the-great-tax-con-job_b_242065.html

Architect of Reagan tax cuts agrees with Thom Hartmann on many economic issues
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2010/11/architect-reagan-tax-cuts-agrees-thom-hartmann-many-economic-issues

[Creative]

163. Do you really think that the very rich paid 70-90%? And the Great Depression

was not caused by tax cuts, it was caused by:

1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
2. Bank Failures
3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
4. American Economic Policy with Europe
5. Drought Conditions

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/greatdepression/tp/greatdepression.htm

[Edweird]

123. Bull.fucking.shit.

[Creative]

142. You articulate your points very well.

[Edweird]

147. It's the most appropriate response to the RW garbage being spouted by alleged "Dems".

[Lorien]

124. Bullshit. If that were the case we'd be out of two wars

and slashing the PENTAGON'S budget (which eats up about half our tax revenue). If they told you to drink Draino would you run right out and do that also?

[Creative]

143. I agree with you with respect to the wars, but you are completely wrong with respect to the

Pentagon's budget.



You shouldn’t drink Draino, it will kill you.

[No Elephants]

136. We decreased our insane AND wasteful "defense" spending dramatically first?

Is Karzai still getting millions at a clip for walking around money for which he never has to account? And lesser amounts ffor thousands of others.)

Have we REALLY been fighting hard to have tax cuts for the rich expire, or at least make Republicans go on record, Rep by Rep and Senator by Senator? Or are we compromising behind the scenes, so we don't embarrass our brothers and sisters on the other side of the aisle 'cause, hell, we wouldn't want them to embarrass us? Or bc so much of D.C. is kabuki nowadays. (For that matter, why did we leave this vote until now? We should have been bringing it up since 2006.)


Somehow, somehow, the U.S. ran out of OASDI and salary money while still having plenty for bailouts, Homeland "Security," "defense," etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. And that is not only RW, but archetypal RW.

[Creative]

144. I think we all agree regarding the war, but it is unlikely that taxes will be raised.

The electorate is against it and it probably is not a wise thing to do during a recession.

Still, freezing the salaries of fedgov workers is not going amount to much either. Obama needs to follow the recommendations of the committee he appointed and reduce the size of the federal workforce by at least 10 percent.

[HEyHEY]

9. Uh, everyone else is facing it too, you know.

[Yupster]

10. It's a pay freeze

but it won't impact bonuses or step raises?

Then it's not a pay freeze is it?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

81. It won't impact bonuses or step raises. n/t

[robinlynne]

11. Actualy, I have a friend who works for the county. She has been getting 3-5%

cost of living increases and bonuses all through the recession even though the cost of living goes down.(She pays nothing for health or dental, all paid for by taxes.) It really makes no sense at all. out here in the private world our pay has been dropping steadily. i think a pay freeze is long overdue.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. You're about the get jacked up, son

:rofl:

[tavalon]

16. Hey, that's not nice!

You didn't bring the popcorn. Geez! :popcorn:

[beforeyoureyes]

17. The cost of living has gone down? What planet do you live on?

[robinlynne]

27. Except for health care. here in Los Angeles rent is 25% less than it was a year ago.

[brentspeak]

32. And how much has rent decreased everywhere else in the nation?

Rough monthly rent on a 2-bedroom in the NY/NJ area 7 years ago was $600. Today: about $900.

[robinlynne]

40. i dont know. I assumed the housing crisis was nationwide. that is what made the rents go

down. At first they climbed (2 years ago)as more people rented, then they retracted as less people rent and more move in with families. here in our building, rents are actually lowered because the new rentals are so much lower.

[U4ikLefty]

111. I live in L.A. as well....prove it!!!

cause I smell BS & think your "friend" is a figment of your imagination.

[wolfgirl]

18. Local government (state/city) are not the same as

Fed - so please don't compare apples to oranges.

I wouldn't be upset with this action if I knew corporate America was going to do something constructive with all their megamillions (something for the working people) and Congress was going to start taxing the wealthiest among us to assure the poor/needy were protected.

But I suspect that isn't going to happen. AND, I know that the GOP want to hack away at the Fed workforce so the private sector (big corporations) get the work at twice the cost to the taxpayer.

I guess I won't be retiring just yet....

[CreekDog]

19. how much do you think Federal Employees pay for their health benefits?

28% of all premiums. Dental is usually not included in those health plans.

[tavalon]

20. Now, for a real answer

The public sector almost always makes less for the same work performed in the private sectors. The benefits are supposed to make up for it, like the free health insurance and a day or two extra time off here and there.

And while I can see why you might feel peeved, this posting of yours is either going to get schooled or mocked. It lacks a lot of understanding. That said, I might have said the same thing before I was radicalized.

[robinlynne]

24. I am all for taxing the wealthy. i am all for an equal dsitribution of wealth.

She is my close friend and I'm glad she was abl to buy a house and gets free dental care. Wish I could ahve the same. but the cost of living increases are insane. The only cost going up is helath care. She pays 0 for that. She jsut bought a nice house with her cost of living increase. I'm happy for her, but meanwhile there is no money for foodbanks, shelters, here. The programs funding abused women were shut down. So I dont think her wages should be going up right now. I think a freeze makes sense. I'm earning less than half of what I earned 3 years ago, working the same hours. a freeze is not a big deal to put up with.

[Creative]

91. Without an equal distribution of talent, there can be no equal distribution of wealth.

At least not in a free society.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

84. That is absolutely true, depending on the skills set. Health care professionals

who work for Veterans hospitals, for instance, are well paid, but not as well as their private counterparts.

However, if I'm being honest, there are some lower-level staff who are getting paid to do essentially nothing. They've accummulated many years of service and therefore have been around long enough to get grade increases. Once hired, it's difficult to fire civil servants. Even demotions don't necessarily affect pay grades.

On the other hand, there are those of us at the higher end of the pay scale who have acquired a certain level of skills who are paid well, but certainly not at a comparable level as our private industry counterparts.

[tavalon]

101. I'll agree with that one

I'm extremely pro union and yet I see that there are some hangers on in our hospital who can't be gotten rid off despite their rather egregious abuse of the system. My union is also pretty weak and yet, I am much happier under the union, even with the small negatives.

[Thor_MN]

162. Actually, due to regimented raises in government jobs, they have pulled ahead of private sector

in many areas. Private sector jobs have been doing pay freezes and cuts for some time. The generally held rule that government jobs pay less is no longer always the case.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Oh, you've bought into the right-wing version of "the politics of envy"

which can be summarized as "Public employees are some of the few people who are still guaranteed a traditionally middle class standard of living and benefits, so we should drag them down to make sure that they're as as miserable as the rest of us."

Girl, the proper response is for private sector workers to band together, look at your employers' balance sheets, read their reports to shareholders, find out if they granted bonuses to the executives, and use that knowledge to bargain for better treatment.

You're playing into the right-wing tactic of "dividing and conquering the lower classes."

[robinlynne]

41. No, I dont want to drag anyone down. I just think a freeze makes sense. And for CEOS

a major paycut.

[laughingliberal]

42. +1 nt

[cottonseed]

69. Why don't public employes help, "private sector workers.. look at employer's balance sheets..."

read their reports to shareholders, find out if they granted bonuses to the executives...

Would be nice to see public employees using their strength and relative comfort to help all works attain a living wage.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. Are you saying that the private sector employees are too stupid to do that on their own?

I'm sure that if the private sector employees go on strike, the public sector employees will honor their picket line.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissB]

110. Well said, Lydia.

Haven't seen you around here much - good to see a post from you!

[annabanana]

31. "the cost of living goes down". . ??!?

Which country do you live in?

[cottonseed]

70. The rate of inflation has gone down.

and she's referring to to "cost of living" increases based on inflation...

[robinlynne]

96. also excluding heklathcare in this particular case. As w pay more and more for healthcare. She pays

nothing at all. The real cost of living increase in this country is healthcare.

[laughingliberal]

39. That's the ticket! Bash on workers getting fair treatment instead of demanding it for all workers.

Lovely to see you wishing your 'friend' had less.

And the real cost of living has not gone down. Just the fantasy presented in the cooked CPI in order to justify the screwing of SS recipients and workers.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

82. She pays *nothing* for health? I don't think this is true. She must pay a premium.

Though she's state, all federal employees who opt to join the health care program have to pay premiums like everyone else. Nothing for free. I find that incredibly hard to believe.

[Doctor_J]

98. What does this have to do with Federal employees?

:shrug:

[ProudDad]

117. Hey, I've got an idea!

Instead of being jealous of unionized workers who have some collective power against the elites...

Why not work on building worker solidarity and get some clout for the private sector again!

And in what corner of cloud-cuckooland has the cost of basic LIVING been going down!!!???

Geez. I can't believe some of you people!

[avaistheone1]

121. I do too.

I worked in a major corporation and even with excellent reviews we rarely saw a 3% increase, never mind a 5%.

I think public employees are in for a shock. Most of the public can no longer afford these kind of wage increases and benefits when so many of us have lost our jobs, or work a couple of jobs to make ends meet. There are so many of us have no benefits of any kind. Where do the public employees expect all this money to come from? Where is the money tree? I would like to go and shake that tree myself. There has to be a big adjustment coming for public employees given so many jobs in the private sector have been off-shored. It looks like those jobs are never coming back. As a result there are fewer and fewer people who make good wages in the private sector who can afford to support public employees. It sure doesn't look like the Obama admin is willing to make the structural changes necessary to help the middle class and stop the offshoring.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Tax cuts for the rich, shared sacrifice for the rest of us

Marvelous.

[Mz Pip]

33. That was my first thought

Who will be left to support him when all is said and done? Maybe those earning over $250,000? Fat chance.

Honestly this really wouldn't bother me so much if he doesn't cave on the tax cuts. Lots of State and County jobs are having hiring freezes and wage freezes because of the economy. But the economy isn't going to get better by growing the debt with a continuation of the tax cuts.

The rich get to keep theirs and the poor civil servants get screwed. way to go.

[laughingliberal]

43. Yes. A lovely little neo-liberal utopia. nt

[tavalon]

14. Way to stimulate the economy!

President Obama could you please hire a competent economist. I have a few I could recommend, but rule one is to make sure they don't have their heads up their asses. Your current crop all seem to. Hell, even without a single advisor, you're smarter than this. You just are, so stop creating political hay out of peoples lives. Read nothing from Reagan and everything from FDR, soon, please.

[OlympicBrian]

21. This is an economic de-stimulus, there are more than 2.7 million federal employees

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/factbook/2007/2007FACTBOOK.pdf

All while talking of tax cuts for the rich.

[laughingliberal]

44. Sure. Bigger deficit will mean we have to cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid. This works well for him. nt

[mikekohr]

22. As An Elected Local Official, I Voted To Freeze Our Pay For 4 years from 2008-2012

The vote was unanimous. The governmental body in question is for offices on a Township board and all but one position is part-time. The full-time position was cut in pay $4,000.00 per year.

Given what was happening in the private sector it was the right thing to do, and fiscally responsible action given our declining tax revenues.

[CreekDog]

63. Maybe nobody anywhere in the country should make anything at all

I mean, if we're going to be fair about it.

Everybody can keep cutting wages until nobody who depends on a paycheck is getting anything.

Then it will all be fair.

[mikekohr]

103. That would be a bridge to far nt

[RobinA]

157. This is the Best

idea yet. And we should just mail whatever money we have saved to the CEO/fat cat of our choice, because lord knows, he works hard for his money.

[CreekDog]

160. True, but not for that reason...but because if he/she takes all the money out of their hedge fund...

we're all screwed.

so pay up little people! pay up.

the super wealthy have you by the b-lls, as your counsel i recommend you give them anything they want because they win no matter what.

or else the economy tanks.

by the way, i got a note from Anthem, they said your insurance rates are going up 19%.

oh, and your employer says you aren't getting a raise, but at least you're not getting laid off like everybody else.

anyway, before i forget, tell congress to pass tax cuts for the super wealthy --you know how i said they have you by the b-lls? well, if the tax cuts don't pass, they'll get cranky and maybe cause a small country or two default on their debt. that might hurt your employer and get you laid off. or some VP figures out that he'll get a big bonus if he can figure out how to make the stock go up by getting rid of you.

keep your head down, work harder, work longer, make sure everybody above you only is happy when they notice you.

it's the new paradigm...you have food and shelter --hey, you got it good!

:wtf:

[neverforget]

23. At least the Republicans will like him now.....

:sarcasm:

[AlbertCat]

25. and now that that is done....

.... how about the Senate take back whatever their last raise (or two) was and freeze their asses there. I mean, after all, the Senate isn't DOING anything. It certainly isn't doing what it gets paid to do.

[cali]

26. good.

[blackspade]

28. What?

"The administration had examined pay levels, "and the data we get back indicates that high-skilled workers in government are slightly underpaid. Lower-skilled workers are slightly overpaid relative to the private sector," Obama said.

"And that's not surprising," he added, "because it's a unionized workforce" in government, while the private sector's typically is not."

High skilled workers are 'slightly' underpaid relative to the private sector? What does he mean by high-skilled? Is he only comparing base salaries?
I don't even what to get into the 'low-skilled' workers. The private sector has been cutting wages and benefits to the most vulnerable in the work force for years. Unfortunately, these folks are the foundation of the employment system. Toilets don't clean themselves, and memos don't type themselves.

This seems to be yet another attack on unions because they allow the 'low-skilled' workers to have a voice.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

30. The decision will save the government....

The decision will save the government about $2 billion for the remainder of fiscal year 2011 and $28 billion over the next five years, the White House said.

I'll leave as an exercise for others to calculate how many minutes of {fill in the blank} that will pay for.

[dflprincess]

113. Let's see, Obama is spending about 5.7 billion per month in Aghanistan

so 28 billion will cover about 5 months of that.

But, he just announced we "need" to be there at least another four years, so it sounds like there will have to be a whole lot more "shared sacrifice" if he's going to get to keep his war going.

This is not what I voted for.

[TheWebHead]

34. this is fantastic news

the federal and private sector pay gap has never been larger and it will remain large even with the freeze because it is the out-sized health care and pension benefits that have created the enormous disparity in salaries. When pay gets to the level that the public sector employee turnover rate is roughly equate to their private sector counterparts, we'll have reached the equilibrium. Even with these freezes, it will take awhile to achieve that goal.

[savalez]

35. I agree.

Gov pay should somewhat mirror the private sector.

[RobinA]

158. So Let's

average it out. Let's start with, say, 1900. Let's include the decades that public sector employment was bottom of the barrel in pay and lump it all together with the relatively recent situation in which public employment is actually a better deal and compare to the private sector average. Then, when we reach parity in another couple decades, we can freeze public pay and it can run parallel with private. Of course, when good times return and private employment is again eating public employment's lunch, that will be factored in as well. Then let's hear private employees clamouring for public employment to be brought up to the level of private employment. Funny, the whole time I was growing up, I'm 53, public employees were schmoes and laughing stocks for selling themselves so cheap. I never once heard a public employee call for lowering private salaries to the crappy level that their own salaries were. And don't tell me pension. Everybody had pensions then.

[Arctic Dave]

38. Race to the bottom. Awesome.

As for healthcare cost, I think Obama and Congress had a chance to fix that and they caved.

[NeoConsSuck]

93. Bingo! We have a winner!

The reason why the politicians and right wing citizens are going after government worker salaries and pensions is because private industry has been lowering or stagnating private sector salaries and benefits, and right now, the race to the bottom is being won by private sector workers. How unfair!

We never heard any complaints about government pensions when everyone's 401k's were flying high during the housing boom. But after the market crashed, the envy of the government defined benefit plans grew. This anger is being fed by the capitalists, because they can't continue to lower the pay scales of private sector workers until the government workers are lowered. Once government worker salaries are frozen or lowered, they can then resume screwing the private sector employees. The classic race to the bottom.

I worked in private industry for 35 years, and in government for the past 4 years. Hopefully, I'll never have to go back and work in private industry again. Being in the IT field, and watching my work going to India, I could see the writing on the wall.

As far as Obama goes, I'm through with that dirtbag. I don't think it is any coincidence that his *first* action after the commission report was to have middle class workers shoulder the deficit cutting.

[CreekDog]

62. Federal Employee Health care probably costs less than yours

the most typical plan runs under $450/month with the employee kicking in about $100 of that.

[alarimer]

65. You are completely and utterly WRONG.

All of those articles talking about how federal pay has exploded are completely wrong. But of course our crappy media just trot this out in oder shore up support for right-wing policies and to fool people like you who buy into it.

According to this article by the Center for Economic and Policy Research:
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/cepr-blog/federal-pay-still-lags-private-sector-at-the-top


USA Today has a big, front-page story today reporting that the "number of federal workers earning $150,000 or more a year has soared tenfold in the past five years and doubled since President Obama took office."

The piece provides a lot of useful numbers, but is short on context. As written, headlined, and positioned in the paper (the biggest story in the paper today), I'm concerned that the story will be used primarily as ammunition to argue that federal workers are overpaid.

First, some of the key numbers in the piece are not adjusted for inflation. The chart accompanying the text shows the share of workers who made more than $150,000 per year in 2005 --in 2005 dollars-- and then shows the share who made more that $150,000 per year in 2010 --in 2010 dollars. Even if federal salaries had not increased at all in inflation-adjusted terms over those years, salaries would have been about 12 percent higher in 2010 than they were in 2005 (that was how much inflation there was between 2005 and 2010). This would have pushed workers who were as much as 12 percent below each of the various salary cutoffs above those cutoffs, even if there had been no increase in their after-inflation pay. This effect may or may not be important here, but it is impossible to tell from these data. At the very least, USA Today should have noted that the figure did not adjust for inflation.

Second, the piece does not provide any comparison with the private sector. Federal workers make up a small share of the total US workforce --about 2.1 million workers out of a total civilian workforce of about 139 million in 2010. As USA Today reports, currently about 3.9 percent of federal workers earn more than $150,000 per year. The report does not mention, however, that this is very close to the figure for the economy as a whole. According to Social Security records, in 2009 (the most recent year available), 3.2 percent of workers earned more than $150,000. The small difference here is particularly remarkable given that federal workers are both substantially better educated (more college degree holders, more advanced degree holders) and older than the average private-sector
worker.



There is more at the site, if you want to educate yourself.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

85. Actually this is not true across the board. It greatly depends on the kinds of work.

And the skills set.

To be fair, however, this is one of those moves that I agree with. There's nothing wrong with the belief that in these times of economy uncertainty, federal employees must sacrifice like all Americans.

And to be sure, the salary freeze won't affect bonuses, so we federal workers can still work hard and receive a little extra something in our paychecks from time to time. Note that bonuses are strictly based on merit and are difficult to come by. (I needed to stress that fact in case someone gets angry.)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

138. +1

well said.

wonder what the top 2% will be asked to sacrifice.........

[Doctor_J]

99. wtf are you talking about?

your subject line has nothing to do with the text.

[fascisthunter]

149. wow... the RW propaganda is out today

[kpete]

45. Citing deficit, Obama to freeze federal worker pay

Source: Associated Press

Citing deficit, Obama to freeze federal worker pay

(AP) – 37 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama will announce a two-year pay freeze for federal employees that the White House says is necessary to put the country on sound fiscal footing.

The White House said Monday that the freeze would apply to all civilian federal employees, including those working at the Department of Defense, but would not affect military personnel. The freeze will save $2 billion during fiscal year 2011, according to the White House.

Obama is expected to announce the pay freeze at the White House later Monday.

The chairman of Obama's bipartisan deficit commission has proposed a three-year freeze in pay for most federal employees as part of its plan to reduce the nation's growing deficit. The commission's final report is due to be released later this week.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jb3vVw2HvNyUcW3t6qL1ZFhLzAvQ?docId=6cbdeb9ad40940608223c5f43ce79271

[xchrom]

46. recommend

[HopeHoops]

47. Does that include Congress?

[frazzled]

48. The executive branch does not control the pay of Congress

That would be an affront to the separation of powers. Congress determines its own pay, and the president has no say in it.

Sheesh folks, understand your government's structure.

[CreekDog]

52. nor do they control the pay of Federal Employees

congress determines that as well.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. Tax cuts for the rich, shared sacrifice for the rest of us

Surprise.

[blackspade]

50. Wow! Saving a whole $2b?

How about they cut the bloated war budget and leave worker pay out of it?
I thought they wanted to get us out of this economic fuck up?
Cutting pay is not one of the best ways of getting folks to spend money.
Unfortunately, Obama and the Rethugs are going to find out the hard way that austerity measures are not popular with anyone.

[Lasher]

51. Way to go, Barack Nixon

This is particularly unfair for new employees who will be denied progression increases. They're talking about taxing employee health insurance too.

[Winterblues]

53. Well only need to find another 698 billion in cuts to offset

the Tax Cuts for the Wealthy he is about to concede to...How is he going to explain this?

[librechik]

54. citing "deficit?"

I give fucking up.

[n2doc]

55. there goes the Northern Virginia vote n/t

[LeFleur1]

56. I Had So Hoped....

...for change we could believe in, not change that would make the middle workers poorer, and the rich, who get rich off of the work of the middle, richer.

Seems we were scammed.

[TheeHazelnut]

57. Guess screwing over Shirley Sherrod wasn't enough

Gotta put the stick to the rest of the federal workforce now.

[NoodleyAppendage]

58. Yet, he will bend like a wet noodle on tax cuts for millionaires. You watch. n/t

J

[lldu]

59. President to announce Federal Pay Freeze

Source: CNN Breaking News

President Obama will announce a federal pay freeze today, a senior administration official tells CNN

No link yet.

[LuckyLib]

60. Many of us have had our pay frozen for years.

[Donnachaidh]

61. Hope that includes Congress

Actually, he should be clawing back pay raises Congress gave themselves, back to 2007. They profited while the economy burned. :grr:

[activa8tr]

79. I would vote for that!

2000 level wages for all elected officials.

[alarimer]

64. I am never voting for this guy again.

He is a right-winger through and through. He buys into the RW talking points on federal employees. Freezing their pay for however long is not going to amount to a hill of beans in the deficit. End the stupid wars and raise taxes.

This makes me wonder what else he is going to cave on. Social Security, Medicare? Although I guess it would take Congress to actually change those.

Obama is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He LIED to get elected but he is nothing but a right-wing tool.

[KillCapitalism]

107. I'm with you.

I really don't think things would be much worse right now if McCain/Palin would have been elected.

I once heard someone say "A DINO is the worst since they hide their intentions well, but at least a republican will be up front with you about their agenda."

[Lorien]

125. Classic Right Wing bait and switch

The DLC snookered us all in 2008.

[RobinA]

159. What Are You

talking about? I hear that freezing the federal workers' pay and cutting social security benefits will have the deficit whittled away in no time. Don't you read the papers?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[WizardLeft62]

66. As Usual---Federal & State Workers are Scapegoated!!!!!!!!

Per usual, either federal and state workers are scapegoated in times of "budget deficits" which are brought on by private sector greed.

Whether it's unions or teachers, those who do hard work every day are scapegoated to take pay cuts and pay freezes.

Yet, when it comes to the banksters, they are bailed out without conditions. Where is the justice for those who lost their homes to foreclosure? What conditions were ever placed on the banks?

[David__77]

67. More and more austerity for the people, more and more power for the few!

The agenda is very clear. "Deficit commissions" sharpen the axes while the administration puts more and more necks on the chopping block.

[saigon68]

68. More BONUSES for WALL STREET

A bag of dog shit for the Working Class

[Iowa]

71. Another Republican-like act by a weak Democratic President...

...and the list continues to grow.

[melm00se]

74. I am confused

what are "step increases" and how are they different from "pay increases"?

[activa8tr]

83. Step increases are based upon seniority, usually 7-10 annual

programmed, planned and expected increases in salary for workers in their first years of federal service.

States often have a similar system.

Based upon the concept that a worker is more valued to their employer as their years of experience increase, up to a certain point in the same job usually between 5-10 years, depending upon the job unit, skill, etc.

"Raises" are promised increases in EVERY worker's salary based upon bargaining agreements, usually for a 2-5 year period. They apply to people at step one through the top step. They are intended for all workers, especially the top step people... to keep up with inflation.

Usually people who have been in their jobs 7 years or more get no step increases, only raises when the government negotiates them with the workers' groups. Career workers who have been in their jobs a long time get only raises when raises are agreed to and promised.

Did that help?

[glen123098]

75. This fucking sucks. I can't believe I voted for him

My mom is a federal employee, and despite claims to the contrary, she does not make much. She has been having to borrow some of my student loans just to get buy, She was counting on a raise next July, I guess it won't come now. Obama, instead of asking us to make such a huge sacrifice, How about the corporations, or ending some of these costly wars. God dammit I'm pissed.

[saigon68]

89. He won't get re-elected

When they come begging for $$$$--- see ya

[activa8tr]

94. This is Obama saying he only wants to be a one term President

As far as I am concerned, he has lost the teacher vote, the doctor's vote with his puny health care plan, the federal employee vote, (which is Virginia and MD)the retired vote, (with his "fiscal budget whatever commission to cut Medicare and SS)

He might as well have handed over the keys to the White House to the Republicans today.

I love the guy as a person, I don't agree with much he is doing, even though I agreed with much he was saying 2 years ago.

We should be planning 2016 campaigns from this day forward. By then, we will have bread lines, soup kitchens, and 20% unemployment. We will have no FBI, no CIA, no military not involved in Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and somewhere else.

We might have had WW III by then under President Palin, President Romney, or President Christie, or Bush III, (Jeb).

Obama gave it all up today!

[Hardrada]

108. Unless we find someone to run in a primary against BHO.

[activa8tr]

77. Let the Bush tax cuts continue for the UBER rich...but tax the FBI agents

and everyone else who works for Obama, (including his Secret Service, who will take a bullet for him), by freezing their pay and increasing their health care costs.

Yup.... this makes sense only in an Alice in Wonderland / Through the Looking Glass way!

[nyc 4 Biden]

78. what a disgrace.

this move oozes weakness.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

80. Interesting. Not only is my salary frozen for the next two years because I'm a federal employee,

I have been trying to buy a home, but according to a study that came out today, Washington, D.C. is #1 in terms of rising housing prices.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/29/states-where-home-prices-_n_788961.html#s191894

I can't complain too much, though. I am lucky and very grateful to have a steady job...for now...that is, if the Republicans DON'T get their way.

[paulk]

95. stupid and shortsighted

the money saved is a drop in the bucket of our debt -


anti-union, too.


Who the fuck does this guy stand up for, anyway?


anyone?


the real question, perhaps, is who does he work for?


apparently not the Democratic voters who put him in office.

[ProudDad]

118. He works for the corporate capitalist masters

who trained him and paid for his offices...

That's who he stands up for too...

[Doctor_J]

100. Trying to empty the Pacific Ocean with a teaspoon

These are Onionesque headlines.

[Lorien]

126. Exactly. If he wanted to trim fat we all know two wars and a war making department

that could save us hundreds of billions by cutting away at their massive troughs.

[senseandsensibility]

102. He's not afraid to use his powers against

the workers. He's already proven that and will continue to do so. I'm still waiting for any use of his powers against the truly powerful.

[Lorien]

127. +1. nt

[woo me with science]

105. So can some of this go to seniors on SS being denied an increase for the second year in a row? nt

[sarcasmo]

106. Stop the wars solve the budget,.

[inna]

109. another anti-worker move. what else is new.

[Betty]

114. that should pay for about a week of war.

well done.

[ProudDad]

119. Unbelievable isn't it?

So tone deaf...

[Lorien]

128. Not at this point. It's clear who he's serving, and it ain't us. nt

[western mass]

134. it's not like they're bankers

[ProudDad]

139. Way to Go Mr. pResident...

Obama Proposes Salary Freeze For 2 Million Federal Workers

President Obama is coming under criticism from labor unions and progressive economists for proposing a two-year freeze on the salaries of some two million federal workers. Obama outlined his plan on Monday.

President Obama: "And today I’m proposing a two-year pay freeze for all civilian federal workers. This would save $2 billion over the rest of this fiscal year and $28 billion in cumulative savings over the next five years. And I want to be clear: This freeze does not apply to the men and women of our Armed Forces, who along with their families continue to bear enormous burdens with our nation at war."

John Gage, the president of the American Federation of Government Employees, called the pay freeze a “a slap at working people.” AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka said, "The president talked about the need for shared sacrifice, but there’s nothing shared about Wall Street and CEOs making record profits and bonuses while working people bear the brunt."


http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/headlines#2

[Odin2005]

145. CUT THE FUCKINH DEFENSOE BUDGET YOU FUCKERS!!!

[fascisthunter]

150. disgusting, and the lies used here to bullshit readers is sickening

good thing I'm not a mod... the shit that gets by here is amazing.

[Freetradesucks]

156. Weren't Federal workers given an across the board

pay increase by Obama that was substantial already? Even with this "freeze" they are still ahead of the game.

I know this because my brother works for a government contractor, and when Obama instituted the increases they lost 12 mechanical engineers to the government.

[Thor_MN]

161. Will Congress follow suit and give up their automatic raises?