(Supreme Court) Justices reject Obama citizenship challenge

[sabra]

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) -- The Supreme Court has again cast aside an appeal that raised doubts about President Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship, a grass-roots legal issue that has gained little legal or political footing, but continues to persist in the courts.

The justices without comment Monday rejected a challenge from Charles Kerchner Jr., a Pennsylvania man who sought a trial in federal court forcing the president to produce documents regarding his birth and citizenship.

Kerchner's attorney, Mario Apuzzo, had argued in a petition with the Supreme Court that Obama did not fit the definition of a "natural-born citizen" required for the nation's highest office, as defined by Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.

That clause states, "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Kerchner, a retired military officer who describes himself on his website as a "genetic genealogy pioneer," argues the framers of the 1789 document intended a "natural-born" citizen to mean someone born in the U.S. to parents who were both American citizens.

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/29/justices-reject-obama-citizenship-challenge/

[old mark]

1. Rec...too stupid for even the Supreme Court, yet I am sure it will be around for many decades...nt

[roguevalley]

67. somebody better alert Daryl Issa, mr. pissa himself.

[pinto]

2. LOL. And apparently he's a time-traveling mind reader -

Kerchner, a retired military officer who describes himself on his website as a "genetic genealogy pioneer," argues the framers of the 1789 document intended a "natural-born" citizen to mean someone born in the U.S. to parents who were both American citizens.

[LaurenG]

3. Well that would leave out the founding fathers as legitimate presidents then wouldn't it.

:D

[AspenRose]

4. Yeah, but they were white!

:hi:

[tomm2thumbs]

7. +1

especially them wigs

[savalez]

8. Sung to the tune of Transformers

"Teabaggers--- racists in disguise"

[dbmk]

24. No.

"or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,"

[LaurenG]

28. but their parents weren't so that would rule them out according to the guidelines.

however this was just an aside, I am happy that Obama gets to stay now! :sarcasm:

[dbmk]

47. Well, so am I :)

But technically there is, or was :), two ways to be eligble. Natural born _or_ citizen at the time of the Declaration. The founding fathers would always qualify by the latter, regardless of what constitutes a natural born citizen. They were smart that way. :)

[onenote]

55. +1

[onenote]

53. not really. see post number 52.

[LaurenG]

78. according to the information in post 2 not to the op, yes.

" Kerchner, a retired military officer who describes himself on his website as a "genetic genealogy pioneer," argues the framers of the 1789 document intended a "natural-born" citizen to mean someone born in the U.S. to parents who were both American citizens."

[onenote]

52. Article II, Sec 2 of the Constitution

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citzen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."

So, while the doofus who brought this suit is off his meds in thinking that there is anything in the Constitution to suggest that the framers intended to limit "natural born" citizens to individuals who parents were both citizens themselves, the argument that the doofus' claims would mean the founding fathers couldn't be president isn't a particularly good argument since the founding fathers actually thought about that question and dealt with it on the face of the Constitution.

Before making an argument based on the Constitution, it always pays to take a look at the Constitution.

[LaurenG]

80. again I was replying to the thoughts in post 2

I'm not arguing about what the constitution is saying, I am making fun of Kerchner. I'm not arguing that he's right. :shrug:

[pdefalla]

16. Just how far back would this go?

What if my great-grandfather were illegal? Then that would make my grandfather illegal which would make my dad illegal which would make ME illegal even though I am a fourth-generation American??????
So if you could go back and find a single ancestor for whom you could not prove citizenship, then that would invalidate all their progeny. Boy this could be quite a witch hunt!

[laconicsax]

23. The term "grandfather clause" comes to mind. n/t

[mainer]

41. He doesn't even have to be illegal. Just not a citizen.

So if your great-grandfather was a legal immigrant (but not yet a citizen), then your grandfather wouldn't be a citizen, or your father, or you.

[HillbillyBob]

46. Nope , if his grandfather was an immigrant legal or no

his grandfather would be because he was born here Re 14th amendment.

I guess my citizenship is above question my 7g grandfather arrived at Jamestown in 1698 and promptly went to the hills of WV(no am not inbred either, maybe related to myself) we have our records or rather gramma does. On one side my moms folks go pretty far back too as they are part Powhatan I can trace about 4 lines back to the Powhatan tribe. I was born on Chanute AFB and have my berf cert to prove it. They show up in all the census(s?) since they were started in 1790.

I find this stuff about Barrack Obamas birth cert to be utter nonsense.

I am being snarky, but the info is true.

[Travelman]

79. Right, but pdefalla was talking about this dolt's argument

about the parents have to be citizens. What pdefalla said is precisely the first thing that came to my mind. One could carry that one more step backwards right back to 1492 under this "logic" about the parents. It would have invalidated JFK's Presidency, since those folks came over from Ireland at some point several generations back. Nixon was, I believe, a second-generation immigrant, so his Presidency would have been on the short list to be ... un-done, I guess?

Which brings me to the second question: what in the hell is the end game, the remedy (under the law) if this guy had actually somehow won? The Supreme Court cannot force Congress to impeach someone, nor do they have the power to remove the President from office once the Chief Justice has sworn the President in with the Oath.



It appears that this litigant is not much of a chess player.

[Bette Noir]

70. 14th Amendment, anybody? That defines citizenship.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Thank goodness!

[blackspade]

6. Good.

This whole citizenship business is bullshit.
Obama was born in Hawaii, which the last time I checked, was US territory.
That this crap continues is bat shit crazy.

[Historic NY]

10. well Hawaii wasn't a state in 1789 everybody knows that......

:sarcasm:

[cliffordu]

12. Well....

:rofl:

[rasputin1952]

27. McCain was born in Panama...

by extension, one might question his citizenship as well. Yeah, his father was an admiral, don't know much about his mother though...

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rasputin1952]

60. He was born in Hawaii, a state at the time of his birth...

of an American born mother. Pretty well fits in the framework of the Constitution.

[Harry Monroe]

49. Um..Hawaii is a state

And it was also a state when Obama was born in a Honolulu hospital in 1961. Hawaii was granted statehood in 1959.

[blackspade]

50. Thanks, I'm aware of that.

Hawaii like Alabama or Kentucky is US territory.

:hi:

[Harry Monroe]

66. Um..I guess. Every state is US territory

But US territories (Guam, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Island etc.) are not states. Actually every state was once a territory before they were granted statehood.

[Bette Noir]

71. And people born in the Territories are US citizens, too.

[Harry Monroe]

77. And the point being...? Panama Canal Zone was US Territory

John McCain was entitled to run as well. Obama was born in the State of Hawaii. A US Citizen has the right to run for the Presidency as long as he is a natural born citizen. Doesn't matter if it is a territory or state.

[Scurrilous]

9. K & R

:thumbsup:

[RufusTFirefly]

11. Those darn activist judges!! n/t

[Lasher]

13. Why would the SCOTUS even hear such a case?

[jberryhill]

19. This was a decision not to hear it

...along with thousands of others.

You can file anything with the Supreme Court, and it will usually get the same treatment.

These birthers trump up ordinary perfunctory procedures, as if they had some kind of significance.

[Lasher]

26. OK thanks.

I got all excited, hoping Orly was involved in this somehow but a Google News search proved futile. She has been a great source of amusement to me.

[intheflow]

14. Ha! Take that, you racist SOB Kerchner! n/t

[texshelters]

15. I can't wait to see Beck's reaction:

"The communist Nazi Supreme Court promotes a Muslim terrorist president!"

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[laughingliberal]

18. Interestingly, Free Republic's website is down. Too many exploding heads? nt

[Ian David]

17. K&R

[Roy Rolling]

20. yes but...

The majority of morons believe otherwise. Don't tread on their rights to be idiots! The majority has spoken, and if they say he is a foreigner Muslim it is true. :sarcasm:

[Turbineguy]

21. It's those liberal activist judges again!

They're all lefty pinko commies!

[rasputin1952]

22. I had to Rec this because of the insanity of the RW and I'm

hoping one of them peruses this as they scan DU for "Talking Points"...:eyes:

I'm surprised Alito, Thomas and Scalia didn't jump on the bait, maybe the laughter from the other judges intimidated them...:D

[mahatmakanejeeves]

25. Don't miss the website.

Kerchner.com

[rasputin1952]

29. WOW...they are begging for cash...

can anyone imagine what kind of lunatic would send them $1, much less $1000...:rofl:

[bongbong]

33. One of his links

"A Sampling of Some Quotes about the U.S. Constitution from Histsory"

What a moran!

[Guilded Lilly]

30. the hatred and inner racist problems continue don't they?

[onehandle]

31. I have a 'funny name' and a parent not born in this country. But I get a pass because I am white. nt

[Heidi]

32. But many DUers would insist that white privilege does not exist in these "modern" times.

:eyes:

[AllyCat]

34. You know it's a pile of crap when our neo-con SCOTUS won't hear it.

[budkin]

35. Wow I was certain this would be a 5-4 decision in favor of the challenge

[blondeatlast]

36. Good news. Thye crazies always aim for the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS generally smacks

'em down quietly.

[ooglymoogly]

37. Gee did they also refuse to hear the case against cows

jumping over the moon. I am in shock.

[ooglymoogly]

64. Even a lunatic asylum rejects some loonies. nt

[Plucketeer]

38. AMAZING - what some dolts do with their time....

or in the interest of trying to make a name for themselves. :crazy:





GOP JOBS PLAN

[AngryAmish]

39. Can I ask a stupid question?

I understand that the courts refuse to hear these suits because the question of qualifications is a political question - and I could be wrong, I kinda tned this out.

Is there any recourse if a non-citizen is elected to high office?

[kiranon]

40. Yes. n/t

[james0tucson]

73. Is there any recourse if a non-citizen is elected to high office?

>Is there any recourse if a non-citizen is elected to high office?

Yes. In the case of the President, it is grounds for impeachment. If you can prove it to the satisfaction of a majority in Congress, you can remove a sitting President. This would presumably require a valid argument and acceptable, relevant evidence to support that argument. So far no birther has produced a valid argument -- so the fact that they haven't produced a shred of evidence doesn't enter into it.

[AngryAmish]

74. ah-ha

I knew it. Thanks.

[HughBeaumont]

42. Wow, another person pissed off because our president isn't a white guy.

Fucking bullshit. It's the 21st century and some of us are still acting like it's the 19th.

[Swampguana]

43. This effort is a waste of time and money

[Zen Democrat]

44. Obama is the 7th President with a foreign born parent:

Jefferson's mother was born in England
Jackson's mother was born in Ireland
Buchanan's father was born in Ireland
Arthur's father was born in Ireland
Wilson's mother was born in England
Hoover's mother was born in Canada

[LaurenG]

45. What about George Washington's parents?

Were they born in the US?

[onenote]

54. Nope. But under the express terms of the Constitution, they didn't have to be.

In fact, they didn't even have to be citizens. The founding fathers recognized that the natural citizen requirement wouldn't work for those who were born before the US came into being, so they wrote into the Constitution a provision that, in the case of those who were around at the time the Constitution was adopted, it was only necessary that they be a citizen, not a natural born citizen.

[LaurenG]

59. I was just curious since I know there were people here in the 1600's

and I didn't google where his parents were born. My question was just out of curiosity and the post by pinto upthread made me wonder about who is acceptable to the crazy people on the right...

[activa8tr]

48. Obama is half black so he COULDN'T BE a "real American"!

:sarcasm:

Please: just repeating what I have been hearing for 3 years on Fox News.

[klook]

51. In other court news, "Earth Is Flat" claim brutally rejected (n/t)

[ooglymoogly]

65. On grounds the evidence does not cover enough ground. nt

[struggle4progress]

56. US v. Wong Kim Ark (169 US 649 | 1898)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=169&invol=649

This decision lays out the history of the common law on the subject in some detail

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

61. Do feel free to provide a link to such decisions as you consider appropriate.

[boppers]

62. ...and the wikipedia version...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

[Ford_Prefect]

63. But suppose "Ahnold" was about to run for POTUS

But suppose "Ahnold" was about to run for POTUS. Can you imagine the fantastic arguments made about a "true patriot" deserving to be a citizen in full so we could receive the benefit of his ability and his vision? The same clowns who trot out the flag to defend their racism would flock to this noble calling...the divine Right selling us the "Divine Right" of the rich to rule.

[onenote]

75. apparently you haven't been paying attention

You think the repubs like Arnold these days? Where have you been?

[Capitalocracy]

68. What a Nazi

Genetic geneaology indeed. How much do you want to bet that asshole wouldn't fit his own definition of natural-born citizen?

[Mhak]

69. I get deeply disheartened when I see vets doing these things...

As a vet myself, it's genuinely painful. I served under Bush, I didn't like him too much but I didn't call him Hitler; he was my commander in chief and still afforded that basic respect from me. Why some people can be such sore losers that they create insipid lawsuits built off fairytales like this is immature enough, but for a retired vet to do it...I'm disgusted.

This man clearly was used to getting respect and not giving it. A classic call-sign of the kind of officer nobody wants to serve under. Very few people make it to retirement with that attitude. It's a shame that one of the few who did pulls something like this. Deep down I want very hard to think he truly believes he;s doing the right thing, that he truly believes our President is foreign born and not a citizen....but I don't think I've ever met an officer capable of being that stupid. They do want a college degree from you to earn your butter bar, after all.

[Confusious]

72. Too stupid for words

If the parents had to be citizens before they became president, then George Washington, Madison, Jefferson, etc. could not have been president since their parents weren't citizens.

[anachro1]

76. "genetic genealogy pioneer"

Anotheer word for Nazi.