Pentagon: No Separate Facilities For Gay Servicemembers

[Tx4obama]

Source: TPM

One of the more contentious points of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell debate was whether the Pentagon was considering building separate barracks and showers for gay servicemembers, with some fearing a "separate but equal" mandate.

But the Pentagon report on how best to repeal the policy, released today, recommends no separate facilities, saying such a move would "wrongly isolate and stigmatize" gay troops.

"A large number of Service members expressed their discomfort in sharing bathroom facilities or living quarters with those they know to be gay or lesbian," the report reads. "The Working Group recommends that the Department of Defense prohibit the creation of separate bathroom and shower facilities based on sexual orientation. Besides being logistically impractical, 'separate but equal' facilities would wrongly isolate and stigmatize some Service members."

SNIP .... and Gates told reporters, "The bottom line of the report is, No separate facilities."

Read more: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/pentagon_no_separate_facilities_for_gay_servicemembers.php?ref=fpb

[Drale]

1. Why does it seem like we are slowly slipping back into ways

that where deemed wrong in the past?

[awoke_in_2003]

8. I would dispute...

your use of the word "slowly". But then again, time moves quicker when you are older.

[howaboutme]

2. Why do our politicians think and analyze everything to death?

Does it serve as the inevitable diversion and method to avoid making a decision? No one needs separate facilities. DADT is a typical issue the media thrives on and it brings up because the greedy bastard scoundrels know it will add a billion to their bottom line. The MSM decides, pulls the strings and the public and politicians dance and divide.

I no longer listen to Wolf Blitzer or his numerous pundit peers that have a singular agenda of bringing in more money for their network and agenda, but like most not reporting ethically with all facts.

Thanks for taking the time to read comment.

[AlbertCat]

3. Hmmmmmm....

Perhaps separate facilities for the homophobes are in order. They're the only ones worried about who they're showering with.

[timtom]

4. Au contraire!

Let's have totally integrated living quarters: Men and Women regardless of any orientation or proclivity.

Seriously.

[NorthCarolina]

5. Maybe they could force them to wear pink triangles...

oh wait, I think that's been done before.

[humbled_opinion]

6. I can see this leading to self segregation

What I mean is if I am on a navy ship and serving with some openly gay men and they sleep in the same berthing compartment I do, when they go to shower, I can forsee the straight men steering clear of the facilities until they are finished. I can foresee any number of scenarios where straight men will claim sexual harassment by openly gay members i.e., getting dressed/undressed around an openly gay man could lead to the accusation of "Don't look at my junk man" followed by I am reporting you for looking at me.

No matter how this is sliced its not going to end well.

[causamortis]

7. Ex-Army Paratrooper here

During my time in the service there were quite a few people everyone suspected of being gay. Two were in my platoon during basic, another was an infantry staff sergeant.. Frankly we really didn't care much what they did in their personal time, and most often we were being rushed through the shower so fast that we didn't have time to ponder "what if private Jackson is checking out my junk in the shower.." Get in, get out, shit, shower, and shave was pretty much the limit of my thinking..

[humbled_opinion]

10. Yeah but....

Shore based soldiers have a little bit more privacy due to the open quarters then ships do, I don't suspect the other services would have much of a problem with openly gay soldiers or even coed sleeping arrangements because their is some version of privacy available when using the facilities however, the Navy is quite different. The close living quarters basically require three tier bunking, racks positioned within and arms length across from each other. In other words you practically sleep together, this may not be a problem when everyone believes each other is straight, however knowing not suspecting, the suspecting leaves you a little wiggle room to apply a doubt standard, but knowing for a fact that this sailor above you or under you or directly across from you is openly gay may give you pause as you brush past each other dressed only in your skivies or when you practically have to share the same shower due to water hours.

My point is that if you have openly gay men living together and gay men are attracted to other men sexually, I don't mean to sound homophobic, but if gay people experience sexual arousal the same as straight people do then it is logical to assume that gay men living in close quarters with other men will potentially be sexually aroused from the visual stimulation received in such close living conditions. Since I have nothing else to gauge this on, I have to assume that if a really hot looking female sailor came into my berthing compartment on the ship and stripped down I would become aroused as a natural human instinct. Therefore, logically, allowing people to serve openly gay in the military in close quarters living conditions would be a psychological form of harrasment to the straight people on the ship.

[auntsue]

11. Just because a person is aroused does not mean

action is inevitable. You cannot choose what gets you aroused, you can choose to behave appropriatly. Perhaps, the problem is there are a lot of straight men who really do feel the need to act on every sexual impulse and are afraid that gay men are like that too. Everyone is going to have to learn what most women already have - how to politly say "No Thanks!" My brothers tells of being hit on by a guy and replying "Oh I don't swing that way - but I'm flattered." No animosity or ugly feelings. I think if we just grow up we can work it out.

[humbled_opinion]

12. Fair enough

So answer this if there is going to be openly gay members serving in the Military then we should have fully coed living conditions, why are men and women segregated?

[No Elephants]

15. Good thing you told us you don't mean to sound homophobic. But, if you keep pressing the issue, we

may get the wrong impression anyway.

Fewer than 2500 posts in almost 5 years and you wasted 3 posts over preferring to make gays who are risking their lives in the military lie? Seriously? Hey, if you're going to do that, why not go the whole nine and post what you'd really prefer?

[Politicub]

20. Your post deserves an eyeroll and not a response

Go and peddle your garbage somewhere else.

[No Elephants]

14. Please, spare us. Gays ARE in the military. A honest gay is no more or less of a threat to your

delicate sensibilities than is a gay forced to be dishonest if s/he wants to serve his or her nation. And whether or not you mean to sound homophobic, you're groping for reasons to make gay people who are already in the military keep lying, which makes no sense whatever.


Please see also Reply 13.

[humbled_opinion]

17. Yep you completely missed my point

and as far as the number of posts dedicated to certain issues it is because this issue is very important to me because I spent 22 years on active duty in the Navy and I understand exactly how the majority of straight navy men feel regarding this issue. Don't think this conversation hasn't taken place hundreds of times in my career with many different people. If you have never walked in my shoes then don't judge me. If I tell you that straight men would feel psychologically harrased by having openly gay men berth with them then you should accept that just as you would be forced to accept the psychological difficulty that men and women berthing together would pose. Now answer my question, what is the difference between gays and straights berthing together as oppposed to the segregation of men and women? You either support full coed living or you don't there is no other logical conclusion.

[No Elephants]

25. Um, no. I didn't miss your point and the recent poll of the military belies your

projecting homophobia on to our troops.


"If you have never walked in my shoes then don't judge me. "

It doesn't take walking in the shoes of a member of the KKK to make an assessment.

And please see Reply ##'s 20 and 19.

[humbled_opinion]

31. Nice...

now I am like the KKK because I call for equal treatment of all sexes and you seem content to allow the gay people to have their desires fulfilled but leave out the straights. Maybe you should reflect on your comment.

[No Elephants]

"No matter how this is sliced its [sic] not going to end well." Psychic hotline?

[No Elephants]

16. "No matter how this is sliced its [sic] not going to end well." Psychic hotline?

Cheer up. Maybe members of our armed forces are rational.

[Politicub]

22. People with such a low constitution probably shouldn't be in the military anyway

You'll be able to quickly identify the homophobes as they'll be sitting in the corner biting their nails in fear.

Heaven forbid they find out their doctor is gay one day. Or even worse, their son or daughter.

[humbled_opinion]

27. Obviously you haven't paid attention

I don't have any desire to know if my doctor is gay or not but if he told me he was gay then I might take my prostate exams to someone else and I didn't say people would be living in fear, I simply asserted that if gays and straights can live in close quarters then men and women can too, if this is not about sex or the feeling of being harrassed I would like a women to say she would be fine showering with men. Some other poster used the starship troopers scene now that would be fair gay, straight, men, women all together no more segregation, what a perfect world.

[Politicub]

33. You're right - Men and women together face an unheard of amount of institutionalized bias

Thank you for bringing this societal scourge to my attention. The scales have been lifted from mine eyes.

Maybe this idea could spark a social movement! That would be super cool.

:eyes:

[Ginto]

9. Truthfully, it needs to be like Starship Troopers. Men AND women in the same barracks and showers.

We need to grow up.

[No Elephants]

13. So, they're okay showering with gays as long as they don't know they're gay? What bs.

It must be really tough coming up with reasons to end a policy that allows gays in the military, as long as they lie.

[humbled_opinion]

18. What you wrote is true

Because the rational assumption is that people are like you until proven otherwise. I am sure there are many child molesters in the military too should we call for open disclosure? Should those that prefer to fuck animals be allowed to come out of their closets too maybe those people shouldn't be allowed around military working dogs? hmmmmm?

[No Elephants]

21. Ah, yes, the old RW homophobic trick of lumping together gays, child molesters and animal fuckers.

Good thing I never assumed you were like Duers , hmmmmm?

[humbled_opinion]

24. Thats rich...

I am not Like you... LOL....so because you have no answer, you have no solution but to force straight people to undergo undue psychological harrasement by forcing them to berth in close quarters with openly gay people then that makes me a rightwinger.... I can't be someone that just disagrees with your opinion and asks for people to look at both sides of the issue and be tolerant of both sides by just leaving the issue alone. Don't ask Don't Tell is good law, it works it allows gay people to serve their country and it allows straight people the ability to cope with the close living conditions and psychological aspects and again you never answer the question.... Why can't men and women live in the same conditions that you would force gays and straights to live in?

[No Elephants]

28. Don't confuse my refusal to stoop with my not having an answer.

Besides, I've responded. And again, see Reply 20.

[mac56]

23. You're now equating gay men and lesbians with pedophilia and bestiality?!

Wow. I sure am glad you're "not homophobic." Can't imagine what you'd be writing if you were.

[humbled_opinion]

26. Well why don't you read the entire thread

I was defending my position that if gays and straights can berth in close quarters then both men and women should be allowed to berth the same because there is in fact no difference. Do you agree or disagree?

[mac56]

29. That was really your goal with this last post?!

Really?!

EPIC FAIL

[No Elephants]

30. We have. You're more transparent than you seem to realize.

[humbled_opinion]

32. Transparant

No maybe ignorant, I really don't have gay friends, I really have never even discussed this issue with gay people, and I would be presumptive to think that those posting here were speaking on this issue from experience...

So again what is your solution to the close quarters living conditions? You don't have one because there isn't one...

Your position is just accept it and live with it and deal with it and no matter how you feel about it just shut.... Now that sounds more rightwing then anything that I have stated...

[No Elephants]

34. No, transparent. My last reply to you. I answered you. You just don't get it.

[humbled_opinion]

35. You never answered me >>>>>>

Even if I am wrong on this issue, all you did was to lecture me, you accused me, you ignored me, you belittled me, but you never answered me, you never once tried to help me to understand where I was wrong, you never explained your side, or for that matter how all sides could/should be treated fairly, you told me that my feelings don't matter, that I just have to learn to accept it and when I defended myself by asking what I thought was a logical conclusion you told me to sit down and shut up, case closed.

How absolutely intolerant of you...

[Politicub]

19. The fact that people were even discussing something so insane is sickening

Good for Gates for speaking out.

And a hearty fuck you to the bigots calling for separate but equal facilities.