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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-10 10:26 PM
Original message
Bolivian president cancels gasoline price increase
Source: AP

Bolivian President Evo Morales on Friday abruptly canceled a decree that sharply raised fuel prices, reacting to widespread protests.

Sunday's price hikes had caused a burst of street protests, many of them from groups that are core supporters of the leftist leader who took office five years ago as Bolivia's first indigenous president.

Morales said that he had listened to unions and social groups and decided "it is not the time" for the price rise.

The government announced Sunday that it was raising gasoline prices by 73 percent, to 92 cents a liter ($3.48 a gallon) for regular gasoline, up from 50 cents ($1.89).

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110101/ap_on_bi_ge/lt_bolivia_gasoline
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, I love the scent of populism in the morning.
$380 million in annual tax costs to bring in gas at below market prices, some of which is apparently then being smuggled out.

I wonder how that will turn out.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. He nationalized natural resources - oil $ went from 300M to 2B - US could learn from Evo
The natural resources of our nation are being given away (for pennies on the dollar) to greedy Corporate thieves, oil co's are the most profitable companies in the history of the world -- but they pay zero US taxes.

We need to nationalize all of our natural resources and use the money to fund rebuilding our infrastructure, schools, social programs, etc.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why nationalize at all? That would be inefficient
Private enterprise is a lot more efficient than state enterprises. This has been shown over and over, so why insist on something we know doesn't make any sense?

You could argue for a change in US law, providing for state ownership of all mineral resources - so they can be offered by bids by private enterprises. But US law gives the land owner ownership of resources below the ground, and therefore if you want to take it now, you would be taking property conferred under laws which date back to the country's creation.

Furtthermore, mineral rights owned by the government are not usually given away for pennies on the dollar. Oil is always offered in bid rounds, and companies and individuals are free to bid the price they think is fair. Therefore, since they offer what the market will bear, I doubt the government could do a better job producing those energy and mineral resources.

What I continue to see in DU is a fairly naive belief that communism and state ownership of the means of production, as advocated by Marx, works. But it doesn't. Remember, nations which practice communism always end up abandoning it. Consider what Cuba is doing right now, abandoning its old style communist system. And consider that today, in Russia, the communist party gets almost no suppport from the people. And the same happens in Eastern Europe and other ex Communist nations, where the people, having seen what it did, don't want to have anything to do with it.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Ah-ha, really got your Capitalista mind all riled up, eh? You know I'm right
That's why the idea is so frightening to you. The truth is that the oil companies are the most profitable companies in the history of the world.

You say that Capitalistas are the most "efficient" and I disagree. They are only efficient at taking something from someone else and making it belong to them, then making an outrageous profit off of something they never owned to begin with.

PS, I said nothing about minerals that exist under land owned by citizens of this country. That is your red herring, trying to scare the stupid into siding with you and not to vote in their own best interests. Red herring not accepted here, your imminence.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Capitalism is more efficient than communism
Of course you can disagree. But statistics show capitalism works better than communism as economic systems go. You mentioned "resources being given away" by the government - but in the USA a significant portion of the mineral rights are owned by the land owner - or were owned by the landowner until he/she decided to sell them.

Oil companies don't make "outrageous profits". They compete with each other, entry costs are fairly low, and oil company return on capital employed isn't that high. Because oil prices are volatile, sometimes return on capital can be high, but when they are low oil companies aren't that profitable. I'll take Google, Microsoft and Apple ahead of ExxonMobil, Repsol and BP ANY time.

People's best interests are those which keep the economy strong and working efficiently. DU has its fair share of communists, but I doubt in the end they would agree to nationalize industry the way you propose. To be honest, I find the idea of the US attacking Iran or failing to regulate the banking and insurance industry properly a lot more frightening than US citizens having a cow and voting to turn the country communist. Au contraire, my friend, the way the vote went last time, I'm more worried about Republican shenanigans than I am about a bunch of communists taking over Congress.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well, the corporate financed elections would not give a communist to win an election
Fascist on the other hand have all their chances on the table with corporate money
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Communists don't win elections, period
Communism was discredited during and after the Soviet Union's fall. Too many of us had first hand looks at that mess, and realized it was a losing proposition. The Chinese move away from communism, as well as the recent move by Cuba to start doing the same, should be a clear indication that communists are peddling a very stale, outdated, and discredited idea.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Failed, Brazil Inaugurated First Marxist Female President n/t
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Oil companies don't make "outrageous profits".
You said: "Oil companies don't make 'outrageous profits'."

I don't think any intelligent person reading that will agree with you. Whose best interests are you arguing for?

You said: "People's best interests are those which keep the economy strong and working efficiently."

Good idea! Our economy was strongest and growing the fastest when the rich paid at least 80% taxes on their income. Thanks for the great idea and I agree: we should immediately raise taxes on the rich until they're paying 80% on all their income sources of any kind.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Tell that Postal Service, SSA, and TVA
All are efficient (When Germany in the 1990s sold off is Post Office to Private Company, prices went up, service went down). SSA has overhead of about 2%, Private investment Companies have an overhead of 10-15% (part of this is a Government Entity does not have to make sure non "customers" uses the services, in private Companies most of the cost of overhead is making sure the claim is from someone covered by that private company, not one of its competitors, with Government run SSA and Medicare that is not a concern, the few people not eligible are so few it is more cost effective to treat them then it is to find out they are not covered, this is the chief reason Single Payer was pushed, it is cheaper then having several companies making sure their coverage goes only to their customers).

One of the Classic Situations are highways, while most roads are built by private companies, the roads are owned, maintained and kept clean by the State. Why? Private Enterprise did it for centuries but could NOT figure out how to make a Profit over roads anyone could use (railroads were restricted to trains owned by the Railroad, so were profitable, but by being a monopoly NOT do to being efficiently run). Everyone uses highways, attempts to charge fees for use almost always failed prior to 1900 for people on foot and uses horses would bypass tollbooths, harder for people in motor vehicles, but still possible.

The Post Office is always given as an example of Government inefficient, but US First Class Mail is still the most efficient in the World. Parcel Post suffered, not from any inherent Government inefficiency, but by US Congress requiring it to have a office in almost any town. UPS does NOT have that requirement and does not have costs tied in with such offices. Even today the USPS does almost all Individual to individual parcels while UPS does most large Shippers to individual shippers (Both UPS and USPS do both, but it is easier for a private individual, who ships once or twice a year, to use USPS then UPS). I will NOT go into the fact the Post Office for Decades not only had to pay for its utility service, but the utility service used by the Federal Courts almost always tied in with the Post Office till the 1970s (and still are unless the Postal Service has abandoned the combined Post Office and Court house built prior to 1970.

Just some points, Government can be, and often are, more efficient then Private Companies (the Postal Service has used private truckers for decades to ship the mail, and one of the many subsidies for the airlines is space available transportation of mail provided by the Postal Service, another restriction imposed on the USPS by Congress.

The biggest restrictions on any Government owned or Controlled business is rarely the business being run less efficiently. As shown above it is the RESTRICTIONS imposed on that Government business by the Government that Controls it (and similar situations over with private business operates in an area of Special Concern for the Government). The problem is rarely Government owned vs Privately owned, but hoe much freedom of action the provider of the Service has. In the US the Restrictions to government owned businesses generally goes with concern on how the service is being provided. Thus it is rare for such businesses, once sold off by the Government, to do any better as a private Company as a Government owned Business (most do worse, except when assets are sold, then the business makes money selling the assets till the assets are gone, then goes bankrupt (Forests are an example of this sold by the State Cheap, the trees are cut down making huge profit for the buyer, which then abandons the land. The State has to use Tax Dollars to fix up the area at a huge loss to the state, but the buyer shows a record profit.

Fannie Mae is the Classic Situation. Fannie Mae was founded in 1938 to buy 20 year mortgages and bundle them to sell at a profit. Before Fannie Mae 20 year Mortgages were rare, almost all mortgages were one year in duration,it had to be renewed or paid off every year (Some of the Westerns of the 1930s uses this as a plot device, for it was that common even then). Fannie Mae made 20 year mortgages to become the most common type of Mortgages. Private Bankers said it would notwork, but worked like a dream in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. In 1968, as the cost of Vietnam became excessive, Fannie Mae was sold off to private Hands. The Federal Government had a huge say in Fannie Mae till Reagan, who cut the last ties. Thus as a Government owned business Fannie Mae did well for 40 years, then 40 years of existing as private company came into play. What had been a very profitable Government owned and later Government Controlled Business became a bankrupt Private Company. Why? As a Government owned business long term profits were more important then profits this year, as a private Company, that reversed and doomed it.

Some things are better run by the Government for the Government is concerned not only today, but 50 years from today. Private companies work best when it comes to max profits today. The right wing likes to emphasis max profits today, thus Government is less efficient. As seen above that is NOT true, more a product of right wing dogma then reality, but is repeated over and over again, hoping people will accept it as true despite the evidence against it.

As to the Former Soviet Union, the US realized it would collapse in the 1940s, you can NOT spend 40% of your GNP on Defense and NOT go broke (The cut off for severe harm to an economy is 10%, all military spending is harmful, but gets worse as the percentage goes up, 10% is the point where severe harm starts).
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. If it's nationalized, who is getting the 380 million dollars a year?
Do they not have enough internal supply to meet demand?
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Bolivia lacks the internal resources to provide its own fuel
The Bolivian government, following the advice of the Venezuelans, atempted to nationalize the oil and gas industry a few years ago. Bolivia doesn't have the same resources Venezuela has, which means the nationalization of the gas industry wasn't taken as far as it was in Venezuela's oil industry. However, they did take over some of the oil facilities, and they have been unable to organize a proper government owned oil corporation.

The end result has been a lot less investment by private oil companies, and the inability for Bolivia to sustain its internal liquids production (some of the liquids are produced with the gas, and this liquid production has fallen in part due to the price hikes imposed by the Bolivians on exported gas, which has gradually closed external markets in Brazil). Because Bolivia lacks the ability to produce the liquid fuels it consumes - and because consumption is higher due to the subsidized price, it has been importing fuels.

However, the imported fuel has to be purchased at international prices. And to make matters even worse, the Bolivians are importing gasoline which is then sold at a subsidized prize - and smuggled back to Brazil where it is re-packaged and sold back to Bolivia. This smuggling business is VERY profitable for the smugglers.

The Bolivians government canceled the price hikes - but they will have to do something soon to offset the way they're bleeding money. I suppose Morales is slowly learning that advice given by Venezuelans isn't worth following. The Venezuelans are suffering from a lousy economy, high inflation, and have slowly destroyed their oil industry.
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You're right on point. If Morales is smart (and I think he is) he'll
tiptoe away from Chavez and Chavez' economic model. His cancelling the price hike on gas is a signal that he's prepared to do that (rather than risk a popular uprising, an event which in the past has cost lots of Bolivian Presidents their job).
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Chavez' economic model calls for high subsidies
I don't think Chavez really has an economic model. The guy has gone as far as touting barter, this tells me he's somewhat uneducated when it comes to the subject. High subsidies seem to be more of his strength, which of course is causing Venezuela endless problems.

Morales seems to be a bit more pragmatic, and the move to raise prices was very neo-liberal of him - it makes sense to avoid subsidizing gasoline prices because the poor don't drive SUVs. But the way he did it was pretty crazy. Such an increase has to be carried out gradually, people have to be educated with a propaganda campaign, and the government has to make sure the fuel price increase isn't going to impact inflation unduly - which again tells me it needs to be a gradual increase and not a mega hit like this.

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. You're on point--a failed and incorrect point, but you're on point alright
You say Bolivia is bleeding money -- yeah, so is every other industrialized country just about -- are they $13 Trillion in debt like the USA is? (hint: the answer is NO) Thus, your point is moot.

Bolivia nationalized its oil resources in 2006:
Mr Morales swept to victory as Bolivia's first indigenous president in January elections after vowing to "recover" the country's natural resources by renationalising them.

...

Foreign companies would receive 18% of oil and gas revenues during the transition period, reports said.

Vice President Alvaro Garcia said the military and officials from the state energy firm YPFB moved to take control of 53 energy installations - including gas fields, pipelines and refineries - immediately after the decree was signed.

...

On a visit to Brazil in January he said renationalising the industry would not mean expelling foreign companies or expropriating foreign property.

"Foreign companies have every right to recover investments and make profits, but profits should be balanced," he told a press conference at the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4963348.stm


And he's suffered politically from nationalizing resources (NOT), overwhelming majority agree with his policies:
Bolivian President Evo Morales has claimed victory in the 25 January 2009 national referendum on a new constitution for the Andean nation. The constitution passed just days after the Bolivian leader announced his government was finally taking control of the Chaco Petroleum Company, as part of the ongoing nationalization of the country’s natural resources.

The new constitution aims to further solidify government control over the country’s vast natural resources and denies the jurisdiction of international tribunals to hear disputes over investments in the hydrocarbons sector.

In particular, Article 351 declares that the State will “assume the control and direction over the exploration, exploitation, industrialization, transport and commercialization of natural resources.”

...

Over 60% of voters approved the new constitution, according to figures released by the National Electoral Court, in a vote that was generally regarded as free and fair by international observers.

In a separate ballot item, voters also overwhelmingly agreed to limit future landholdings to 5,000 hectares, according to the Electoral Court. Bolivia has the highest measured level of income inequality outside sub-Saharan Africa according to the United Nations Development Programme.

http://www.iisd.org/itn/2009/02/04/bolivian-voters-approve-new-constitution-as-government-continues-to-nationalize-oil-assets/
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. 300 million dollars a year is what they got from the foreign companies, they now get $2 Billion
Off of the same resource, mind you.

When you give in to the Capitalista mentality you think that only for-profit companies can do things efficiently. Saudi Arabia demanded in the 1950s that the oil thieves please give them 50% of the profits off of their own property. Then later on purchased shares of the oil company they'd given it away to until they owned 100% of the company, then renamed it to Saudi Aramco. That's nationalization by default since all the decisions and all operations are by state-run Saudi Aramco.

Which other countries have nationalized their oil resources?

5 Oil Nationalization in OPEC Countries
5.1 Ecuador
5.2 Iran
5.3 Iraq
5.4 Libya
5.5 Nigeria
5.6 Saudi Arabia
5.7 Venezuela
6 Oil Nationalization in Non-OPEC Countries
6.1 Canada
6.2 Mexico
6.3 Russia
(courtesy of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization_of_oil_supplies)

But make no mistake, it makes no difference to me what the other countries do with their oil. America should have nationalized all of our minerals, oil, natural gas, coal, and all other valuable items on our public lands and within our territorial waters long, long ago.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. I was referencing this line in the OP reference:
Edited on Sat Jan-01-11 10:12 PM by boppers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110101/ap_on_bi_ge/lt_bolivia_gasoline

"The prices had been frozen for six years, and Vice President Alvaro Garcia said the state was paying $380 million a year to subsidize gasoline imports, with much of it smuggled to neighboring countries with higher prices."

It seems that they are paying out 380 million of the Bolivian treasury per year to somebody else, I was asking who was getting that.


edit: typo
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Subsidizing gasoline imports
That probably means that the government is not passing along the higher cost of imported fuel to consumers. The government-run gas companies in Bolivia provide fuel for much less than their foolishly Capitalist neighbors can, which creates a monetary incentive for smugglers.

It is a confusing sentence, though, I'll agree: they're importing gasoline but some of it is being smuggled right back out of the country. So there are still some (smugglers) greedy Capitalists even in Morales' Bolivia (much like a cancer, Capitalist thinking is very difficult to cure).

One thing comes to mind relating to the situation in Bolivia: the government-run petroleum industry in Bolivia can provide for the fuel needs of their country and do it cheaper than for-profit corporations can. Surprise!!! Capitalism is NOT more efficient than government-run programs.

Here in the US of A the "smartest people in the room" continue to spread the lie that Capitalism is the only economic system in the world and government cannot provide a product or service cheaper than private companies. Lies. Lies. Lies. Bolivia proves it.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good for him!
I don't see how the people can afford such high gas prices, even here.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. Horrible decision.
If you want to give people some economic gain, give them money - not gasoline. Those who don't have cars get nothing.

It's the tragedy of subsidizing waste and inefficiency, when the purpose is to help those in need.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Evidently it's a horrible decision
But populist regimes aren't known for making wise decisions. The missing factor was an educational campaign to prepare the public for the change, and explain how it would be implemented. Taking comments from citizens would also have been sensible. But the Bolivians are influenced by Venezuelans and Cubans - and those two like to do things very top down.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I disagree with your solution
"The missing factor was an educational campaign to prepare the public for the change"

Education is all that was missing??? Morales didn't engage the propaganda machine enough?

It's a 'Let them eat gasoline' solution, but Morales knew he could get headlines with lower gas prices. It's the problem with all populist regimes (or all regimes that picture themselves as populist.) They go for the cheap, publicity-driven solution.

Morales is not a populist, but he pictures himself that way, IMO.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Like I wrote before, people ought to be told ahead of time
I think an educational campaign would make the pill go down better. I also proposed it should be done gradually. Morales is a populist, but he is also smart enough to know when he fired a blank. He went for the cheap solution by rolling back the price increase, but eventually he does have to take care of the problem. A guy like Morales doesn't make a move to increase fuel prices like this unless he's seeing the writing on the wall.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. He needs to do it $.10 at a time, blame it on "market forces". nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. A responsive government. Shocking.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You're right. The RW post-athon here on DU is in full swing on this OP
They keep trying to rebrand their failed ideas as "the most efficient" or the only way to do things. Their lack of vision should not limit the people's economic future.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I think the knee-jerk approval of Morales is quaint.
Nothing to do with whether the suppression of gas prices (making all Blivians subsidize those who use gasoline) is smart politics or smart policy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Can you say something about this OP without name calling?
Betcha can. :)
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. This will, of course, ensure a permanent surplus in gasoline in Bolivia.
Now if I could figure out a way to get my hands on some Bolivian gas for export, I see a nice little mark up by selling it here.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. Has centralized price control ever worked for long?
For all the complaints about the free market, it does work better than centralized price controls.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. Wow! A president who "listens to social groups and unions!!!" I guess it would
be futile to hope for such a thing here in the US.

How would we go about getting a leftist President in this GOP hole?


mark
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