Army Faces Questions Over 'Spiritual Fitness' Test

[DeSwiss]

Source: Huffington Post

Army Faces Questions Over 'Spiritual Fitness' Test

By Adelle M. Banks | Religion News Service (via) Huffington Post | Updated: 01- 6-11 08:58 PM

WASHINGTON (RNS) The Army is facing questions over a "spiritual fitness" portion of a mandatory questionnaire, with some atheists calling it "invidious and not inclusive" of soldiers who are nonbelievers.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation learned in December that soldiers were being asked to respond to statements such as "I am a spiritual person" and "I believe there is a purpose for my life."

If soldiers received a low score on their spiritual fitness questions, they received an assessment that said "Spiritual fitness is an area of possible difficulty for you. ... Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal."

In a Dec. 29 letter to Secretary of the Army John McHugh, the atheist foundation asked for an immediate end to the spiritual evaluation components of the Global Assessment Tool and related programs. "It is ironic that while nonbelievers are fighting to protect the freedoms for all Americans, their freedoms are being trampled upon by this Army practice," wrote Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/06/army-faces-questions-over_n_805524.html

---

- What are they trying to create, a bunch of fucking crusaders?!?!?

Oh. Right. Of course they are.......


DeSwiss




"The first reaction to Truth is Hatred" ~Tertullian

[Catherina]

1. WTF! n/t

[givemebackmycountry]

4. WTF Indeed...

Fuck God.
He's done a wonderful job preventing the death of innocent women and children as far as I know.

:sarcasm:

God can kiss my ass.

[lib_wit_it]

36. !!!!!!!!!!!

[Richard Steele]

2. Gott Mit Uns. K&R

[dflprincess]

3. Olbermann did a segment on this tonight as well

and it's worth watching.

I can't figure out how all these "good Christians" can think Jesus approves of their participating in wars of agression.

[DeSwiss]

7. What does Jesus.....

...have to do with Christianity???

- He wouldn't touch that "religion" with a ten foot pole.....

[dflprincess]

8. Good point n/t

[heidler1]

25. The whole dam'n religion would be better if it was Jesusmas.

THe one thing that they have to offer is the Beatitudes and they give it second billing. IMO this is so the tent will be large enough to include the rich. Too, fucking Republican to suit me.
Hi DeWiss

[Art_from_Ark]

39. Well, He might touch some of the denominations

but I have my doubts about one church I attended, where the minister was thanking God for enabling him to buy an expensive luxury car.

I really had to make a tremendous effort to keep from singing out: "O, Lord, won't you buy me, a Mercedes Benz..."

[RKP5637]

5. Yet another giant WTF. God's a pretty busy entity satisfying all of the

conflicting interests where one prays to kill the other and conversely ... talk about conflict management.

[boppers]

6. As an Omnitheist, *I'm* offended.

Who could be so spiritually shallow as to equate the spirituality of others as a form of "fitness"?

Is this some sad form of self-validation, or what?

[dflprincess]

10. What's interesting, per the report on Countdown, most those filing complaints

are practicing Catholics and members of main stream Protestant denominations. Apparently the pressure is not just to be "Christian", but to be the right kind.

[boppers]

12. Well, it would be offensive to a great many kinds of belief, and non-belief.

One does not need a religion to believe in having a purpose (or not having a purpose), indeed, some religions shy away from being so prideful as to thinking that there is a special purpose, just for you, because you're so wonderful and magnificent and unique that god(s) made something up just for you.

[dflprincess]

15. I agree, it would (or should) be offensive to both believers and non

but it is interesting that it is people who hold some of the same beliefs as the jerks trying to foist religion on others are the ones filing complaints. It may be that they're the ones who feel they can get by with it just because they are also members of other Christian denominations. Given how the military works, atheists, agnostics or people of other faiths might be taking more of a risk if they complain.

And, just how obnoxious these actions are may be made clearer by having members of main stream Christian denominations speak up about it.

[boppers]

16. I haven't seem the Olbermann yet, but I'd guess the common thread is humble faith.

Some Christian folks take Matthew 6:5 more seriously than others.

[RandomThoughts]

9. There is a better paradox then that.

If there is no eternal life, there is no reason to live.

Why would you build something just so it would disapear. From there was built the concepts of multigenerational existence since if a person does not carry on, they can have the concept of their existence being carried on in their children, and the paradox of possible lack of existence is removed. Many ways to see that, but part could be passing on ideals, part passing on values, and many other thoughts and ideas, and even ideas of spirit.

If at some point you wont exist, then all you do is building something for nothing, if you think at all about the individual. So there are thousands of thoughts that it is about the entirety over many generations.

Hence why I had to find that the supernatural exists. Once you know the supernatural exist, the possibility of what you have done in life may not be lost, and might carry on. Including concepts of resurrection.

However would the need to know you wont die someday be overcoming death, or would not dying.



There are so many doctrines out there. And so many label traps.


What is it to stand? To have under standing. See how many label traps there are.


So I am due beer and travel money, and many experiences. Although I am not asking for it, it is just due.

[DeSwiss]

13. Here ya go.

[RandomThoughts]

17. I understand that comment.

What is the temporal context.

If that statement were true, then you would be saying people at the bar are in heaven, and if that were true, why are they there. Your statement would have to follow with a divine decision, since you postulate it is a heaven issue. And from that you would have to postulate that those that have beer and travel money, all of them, are doing correctly by what God wants.

You are making the argument that what you have defines that you should have it. That argument is to create the do anything approach to things. Do you know how easy it is to just take something and then say it is yours because you could take it.


Basically you are making the claim that I don't have those things because not in heaven, most use that as some divine reason.

I make the claim that it is mine and will be paid. And it is not the acts of heaven that keep that away, but wrongful actions of people that must be corrected. Although it would not be my boot on those that do not correct things.


All depends on temporal context.

[nebenaube]

32. Sorry dude...

I really have to say that this is one of your 'more ridiculous' thought tangents... Here have a beer, I think you might want to try examining that concept again; say perhaps without ignoring that the individual is part of a larger group. True death or non-existence doesn't occur until you have been forgotten.

[NYC Liberal]

40. But you have to deal with reality, not what would be nice

"If there is no eternal life, there is no reason to live."

Totally wrong - our reason for living is what we make it, there is no universal 'reason'.

And saying that is like me saying that I must be able to fly because if I couldn't I would just be so miserable and depressed.

[ldf]

43. "If there is no eternal life, there is no reason to live."

edit to add i am replying to #9...

and we would then have no way to manipulate and control you, (without actually stating "to our ends".... says the "pushers" (in the context of drug pushers) of said belief) if people believed there was no reason to all this, there would be no control, and SURELY no way to profit from it.

i, personally, try to improve from day to day because it allows me to put food on the table, and i don't like being hungry. it brings on migraines. (cluster headaches, actually, said the neurologist. but the symptoms are the same, so what's the difference. you know what i mean when i say migraine, you probably don't when i say cluster.)

i don't like being mistreated, nor being treated condescendingly. therefore i don't treat others that way. simple concept.

last weekend i finally got around to watching "seven years in tibet".

the chinese communists were marching into tibet and taking control, killing anyone in the way, but had agreed to an audience with the boy dalai lama.

the boy dalai lama had said that (in essence) if it was obvious you couldn't beat your enemy, you must greet him with friendship. so he/they did.

the communist leaders marched into the meeting where the followers of the dalai lama were still creating elaborate and beautiful sand pictures on the floor, in the honor of the visitors.

the communist general marched through the sand pictures, kicking them aside with his feet, in contempt. they were there, obviously, to show who was superior and in control.

at the end of the meeting, as they were leaving, the general stated "religion is poison".

uncontrollably i responded "YES!!!" the one, truest comment that went right to the core of the concept was made by the ultimate protagonist of the story.

yes, the Tibetans were practicing the most basic and purest concept of religion. they were not trying to control anyone else, and it allowed them to get through their hard existence.

but the whole concept has been so perverted that it has become what we see today.

believe whatever you want if it helps you deal with the complexities and contradictions of the time between when you are born, and when you die. but that floats YOUR boat, not mine.

i refuse to live my life by anyone else's standards. i have come to my own conclusions. and i happen to believe they are based on reason, logic and science. not fairytales.

as usual, your mileage may vary...

[sofa king]

11. Faith may be closely related to following orders well.

Armed forces actually have a habit of unconsciously understanding human behavior almost as well as those who study humans professionally. Driven by ruthless competition and the need to improve the ability of soldiers to perform their duty in spite of reason, morality and instinct, it was the armed forces that first perfected the basic principles of classical and operant conditioning.

I would not be surprised at all to learn that the most "spiritually fit" in those tests are also those who strongly support their chosen causes, exhibit powerful loyalty to the command structure, and most importantly, who follow orders well. For the lower ranks, "well" can be construed to mean, "without question."

[DeSwiss]

14. It is directly correlated.....

...in my view. Anyone who is prepared to set aside their own logic and intelligence on demand, is obviously much more malleable and will do as they're told. Besides, they sure as hell don't want thinkers second-guessing their stupid-ass orders.


- Especially seeing how many war crimes they're committing nowadays. Why they could end up on a Wikileaks video......

[sofa king]

20. It's true, thinkers can screw things up in the army.

One of my favorite examples of an exception which proves the rule is the story Stephen Ambrose tells in his book Citizen Soldiers. A freshly minted lieutenant newly arrived in Normandy is told by his commanding officer that there are Germans in that impregnable stone house over there, and to go get them out of it.

So to everyone's astonishment, the lieutenant walked up to the front door and knocked on it. When a groggy German answered the door, the lieutenant told them all to get their asses out of the house. And so they did, surrendering the building without a shot.

Of course for every time one of those tricks worked, there are a thousand stories of some smarter-than-everyone-else schmuck getting himself and others killed by coloring outside the lines. Armies hate that.

[somone]

18. Are you now, or have you ever been, a nonbeliever

Who approved this bullshit?

[Lord Magus]

27. I'm guessing it was this guy:

After all, he's known to have http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Pentagon_generals_in_trouble_for_promoting_0807.html">recorded a video promoting a conservative evangelical Christian group from inside the Pentagon.

[niyad]

19. you know, I don't think that an organization whose primary functions are to kill people in large

numbers, and spend HUGE amounts of money, is qualified to decide MY spiritual fitness.

[LibDemAlways]

24. Yep, the mission of the army is so far from

"spiritual" it's laughable.

[Nihil]

28. That is just so true:

> you know, I don't think that an organization whose primary functions
> are to kill people in large numbers, and spend HUGE amounts of money,
> is qualified to decide MY spiritual fitness.

Well said!
:toast:

[Hissyspit]

21. "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal."

What spirits?! There are no damn spirits.

[Scottybeamer70]

22. What bothers me most.........

is the fact that this is even being discussed.........shouldn't be
a requirement for anything! I guess ya gotta be in some good kind
of "spiritual shape" to be able to kill others ya don't like. What
a messed up planet we live on.

[RKP5637]

38. It is truly messed up! The logic in measuring ones spirituality as a prerequisite to

kill absolutely amazes me. It's really F'ed up IMO. This sounds more like looking for armed and RW Christian.

[Plucketeer]

23. WTFWJD?

He'd renounce ALL this bullshit that's done in his name. OF COURSE..... What CAN we expect? There's SO MUCH ado made as to our "representatives" faiths and doing this, that, and the other only after having called for spritual guidance before going to work for us. Honestly, I want another chunk of space rock to move to. I won't even care if I DO have to share it with dinosaurs. At least with those beasts, there'd be no underhandedness about their intentions towards you!



BOEHNER - McDUNCELL JOBS PLAN

[heidler1]

26. I'm 85 now and I let some BS slide by me.

I used to trade e-mails with neice and she thought eventually she'd convince me and that I'd agree with her. She believed that she was a shoe in to heaven and I decided to attack from that angle. I lambasted her for claiming she knew who would go and repeatedly nailed her with "judge not" this spoiled the fun for her and we seldom wright each other now.

[RKP5637]

37. +1, n/t

[Odin2005]

29. The military has been infaltrated by the Christo-Fascist Domuinionists.

[xchrom]

30. recommend

[Javaman]

31. Full Metal Jacket...

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, do you believe in the Virgin Mary?

Private Joker: Sir, no, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Well, well, Private Joker, I don't believe I heard you correctly!

Private Joker: Sir, the private said "no, sir," sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Why you little maggot, you make me want to vomit!


Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: You Goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary, or I'm gonna stomp your guts out! Now you DO love the Virgin Mary, don't ya?

Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, are you trying to offend me?

Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir! Sir, the private belives any answer he gives will be wrong and the Senior Drill Instructor will only beat him harder if he reverses himself, SIR!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Who's your squad leader, scumbag?

Private Joker: Sir, the squad leader is Private Snowball, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball!

Private Snowball: Sir, Private Snowball reporting as ordered, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball, you're fired. Private Joker's promoted to squad leader.
Private Snowball: Sir, aye-aye, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Disappear, scumbag!

Private Snowball: Sir, aye-aye, sir!

[felix_numinous]

33. Wrong on so many levels

these kids are being mind controlled, and this is why religion has to be isolated from every other seat of power--it is a powerful influence.

[foxfeet]

34. K&R nt

[malmapus]

35. No no, you've got it all wrong....

It's part of finding the Jedi Super Soldier. Sparkly eyes technique!

[panzerfaust]

41. It just gets worse from here on out.

[Posteritatis]

42. I can sorta see what they were trying for there, but did they ever botch the implementation. (nt)

[sarcasmo]

44. Any idea when this question started being asked? I went in the Army in 1986 and don't

recall this question. Since I am an Atheist and put none on my dog tags under religion I would have noticed this insanity. I guess they are taking the onward christian soldier a little to literally.