Parents of dead Mexican teenager sue U.S. government

[cory777]

Source: Reuters

SAN ANTONIO, Tex. (Reuters) – The parents of a Mexican teenager allegedly killed last year by a bullet fired by a U.S. Border Patrol agent across the Rio Grande river, on Monday sued the U.S. government for $25 million.

The U.S. Border Patrol says Sergio Hernandez Guereca, 15, was pelting U.S. agents with rocks from the Mexican side of the Rio Grande river last June when Border Patrol agents on the U.S. side shot him to death.

But Bob Hilliard, attorney for the Mexican family, said today that the boy was the victim of "brutality" on the part of the federal agents, and was "shot in cold blood."

"We have seen brutality captured on video tape that stuns us as a country, when we think that law enforcement are trained and should not do that," Hilliard said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_mexico_lawsuit

---

Activist News http://activistnews.blogspot.com

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. He was throwing rocks so they shot him?

Good grief. Why didn't they just throw rocks back at him?

[shraby]

2. Why didn't they move out of "rock range"? The kid couldn't

have thrown them so far over the river that by moving back a few steps the patrol could have easily avoided the rocks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Good point.

Kid must have had some arm on him if he was throwing rocks across a river.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Rocks are considered deadly weapon in this context and lethal force is allowed

cops or civilians.

BTW, the same goes in the Middle East

[msongs]

5. that's really progressive of you to agree a bullet = a rock across a river nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. I stated facts, not opinion or agreement

[Kelvin Mace]

18. Seems to me the fellow was commenting on reality

not agreeing with it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Well that's fucked up.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Its one of those judgement things

If caught in the open with no place to run and a bunch of miscreants are trying to stone you to death, deadly force would be seen as reasonable. A 9 year old throwing little more than gravel and you can go inside your residence and not get hurt would not be reasonable. Somewhere in between would get murkier...

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Do you really think a kid throwing rocks across a river can stone you to death?

I don't.

[Confusious]

27. David and goliath

It only took one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Prove that isn't a bullshit story and you have a point

[Confusious]

30. That you don't think a single rock could kill a person is telling

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. David was not throwing rocks. He was using a sling, which propels

its missile at 3-10 times the velocity of a thrown stone, having greater velocity and causing greater damage at impact.

That's like saying throwing a 4oz pointed stick is equivalent to shooting an arrow.

[Confusious]

33. The point is, it was still a rock

BTW, have you ever felt how hard a little league pitcher can throw a ball, even with a glove on?

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. No, the point is, he used a lethal weapon, a sling. He was not just throwing rocks.

And there is a huge difference between 200' and 46'.

[Xipe Totec]

22. Or lack thereof nt

[valerief]

11. I don't think we'll be much different from the Middle East in a few years.

Except for the stripper poles.

[Iggo]

13. Close. He was throwing rocks...so they KILLED him. (n/t)

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Thanks for the correction

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. The lawyer would have us believe there is video of this incident

but I have only seen stills taken afterward. Am I wrong.

[Iggo]

14. Fucking lawyers!

[davidthegnome]

8. Hmm

Let's see... I'm 15 and bored so I think I'll go throw rocks at those armed Border Patrol agents (great idea!).

It's unfortunate that they felt it necessary to use lethal force, but I believe they were within their rights. What in the hell gave the kid the bright idea to throw rocks at them? Christ that's stupid. It's kinda like throwing pebbles at a bear. Not something any sensible person would do.

[virgogal]

15. + 1

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. It was a fifteen year old kid - by definition not a 'sensible person'.

And, as post #2 pointed out, he was in Mexico, throwing stone clean across the ficking Rio Grande. What was it, 200, 250, 300 feet? It's a broad, shallow river, mostly, and unless both the kid and the agents were wading there's no way it was less than 200 feet. Where's the lethal danger? At that distance there's so much hang time that the agents could easily step out of the way - picture it like being out in center field and a baseball coming at you. Do you have time to react? Can you track the trajectory and know where it's going to come down?

The agent shot across the border in response to a non-lethal threat simply because the kid pissed him off. He should pay the whole 25 million himself.

[davidthegnome]

23. I wasn't aware of the distance

If it was indeed that great he'd need a hell of a throw to even hit them with a fair sized rock. Still, a well thrown rock even from that distance can kill you, just like a baseball can. Yes, you probably have time to react, to move out of the way, but it is still potentially deadly.

The article doesn't say whether the boy was warned, or told to stop. Do we know if the agent gave any sort of warning?

[TheMadMonk]

29. Indeed. We progressives have done a damned good job knocking...

...the sensibility out of children and the adults they eventually become.

Some bulging shiny forehead in academia declares that the adult male brain does not settle into its final "adult" onfiguration until the mid 20s. So of course the "smart" thing to do is to allow that brain to develop "naturally" without cooercive guidance until that "adult configuration" is locked in, and then and ONLY THEN attempt to beat it into the correct shape if it turns out wrong.

"The Lord of the Flies" might be fictional, but it's still a fairly good cautionary narative of what happens when children are allowed to develop "naturally". You might want to check out the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment">Stanford Prison and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment">Milgram Experiments as well for what happens when people are allowed/encouraged to behave "naturally".

Lindy England and the rest of the Abu Grahib crowd, and even the rapists and "Stryker Squads" can be very easily shown to be the products of naturally emergent behaviours of their environments. These people may well be culpable for their actions. However, the ultimate responsibility properly belongs to the people who DELIBERATELY WITHHELD PROPER OVERSIGHT.

Did this kid deserve to be shot? Almost certainly not. Was this incident or one like it inevitable? Very likely. {cue querelous voice} Back in my day, an adult would have guaged his chances of laying hands on the little bastard, and if he figured they were decent he would have set out to deliver the hiding the kid deserved without fear or favour. If low, he would have done what he could to minimise personal humiliation, by refusing to react at all.

Namby pamby, DIRECTIONLESS, liberalism is as much to blame for what ails us as rampant conservatism/corporatism.

We know the tools that WILL work, (and this includes loudly clouting toddlers on the nappy and stinging little fingers that reach for cigarette lighters) but we abandon those "easy" and proven methods, leaving them to our ideological enemies declaring them too "barbaric" for an enlightened age.

We allow them the use tools that can be made to work with ease by even the clumsiest of practitioners, whilst for ourselves, we permit only those "enlightented" tools, which only work effectively when applied with the skill of an expert practioner.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. And you kids git off my lawn!!!

:eyes:

You do understand that this kid was in MEXICO. He was not raised in "namby pamby directionless liberalism" - so your rant, though full of sound and fury, signifies nothing.

[Kelvin Mace]

21. Sorry, but

bullets in response to rocks doesn't wash.

What next, "I though he was pulling a rock on me, so I shot him!"?

A badge in this country grants a person considerable power, up to and including, the power of summary execution. Either we punish egregious abuses of the badge, or we give up all pretense of justice.

[Lint Head]

12. Goliath wins.

[4saken]

16. Rocks only throw so far...

Why would an agent need lethal force against something they could easily move away from? And if they were forced to shoot for some reason, why would they be using lethal ammunition? When you are dealing with people just trying to cross that border, why would you kill them over it rather than disable them, etc.

By the way Yahoo News sucks. The commenters there are typically disgusting, don't bother reading them if you don't want to become stick to your stomach.

[davidthegnome]

24. That is a good question

I'm not sure if border patrol agents are equipped with tranquilizers.

[rapturedbyrobots]

25. for people not from the border

just to clear up some of the facts around this murder:

the teenager that was shot was crossing the river with another male. border patrol attempted an arrest & got the other guy, but this kid got away...then crossed back into mexico and started throwing rocks from the bank as a taunt. the border patrol agent fired, allegedly protecting himself and the arrested immigrant from the assault.

1) it was assault by the teenager on a federal officer. not saying it justifies deadly force, but if i threw rocks at a cop (tempting) i'd better be ready for a show of force. and if they could manage to catch my ass (doubtful), i expect to be beaten and arrested for assaulting an officer.

2) he was on the mexican side of the border, but had commited 2 offenses (illegal entry & assault) so i'm not sure how cross-border jurisdiction and authorization of force play on this one.

3) the river is not big. at some points it is literally a puddle that you could skip over. but there is a large field of mud, more than 50 feet across that you can get stuck in when the water level is low. wouldn't take much to chuck a rock across. the distance is far enough, however that in order to get a clean shot with the border patrol's sig sauer p226 .40 caliber pistol you would probably need to shoot from a relatively stable position, not moving or shooting from the hip or under stress (as you'd think would be the case if he were dodging potentially lethal stone throws).

4) there is indeed a video. i believe it was taken on a cell phone camera.

[Hulk]

26. I hope the family wins the lawsuit.

What would you do if it was your son? What have we become? Our border patrol need to be held responsible for their actions, the same as our local law enforcement. Maybe it's time to put our National Guard on the border.

I have been hassled by the border patrol, and I am losing respect for their office. I know it is a difficult position to be placed in; but if they can't cut the mustard, then move them out. In this case, the shooter was wrong.

When does this stop? Can we have shooting wars across the border? I hope the family lays punishment where it belongs.