Rep. Steve Cohen: 'I Meant What I Said' About GOPers And Nazis Lying

[Turborama]

Source: TPM

Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) isn't backing down from comments he made on the floor of the House last night comparing Republican's lies about health care to the lies of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels.

"I meant what I said, that lies are wrong," Cohen told TPM in a phone interview Wednesday.

Cohen said he wasn't comparing Republicans to members of the Third Reich. He did, however, see a parallel between the rhetorical strategies of GOPers in their march to repeal health care reform and those used on the people of Germany under the leadership of Adolf Hitler.

"It was a lie, and that if you repeat a lie over and over again it doesn't make it the truth and that's what Goebbels did," Cohen said. "Goebbels is known for political propaganda, probably one of the most successful political propagandist whose philosophy was to lie, and if you repeat it over and over again than people will believe it. Last night I did mention Goebbels because I thought about it and I've had people tell me 'it's just like Goebbels, it's the big lie' you repeat it over and over and over again," Cohen said.

Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/steve-cohen-i-meant-what-i-said-about-gopers-and-nazis-lying.php

---

TPM isn't a source I would use here normally, but this is an interview he made with them directly.

He was also interviewed by Greg Sargant for the Washington Post: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dem_rep_no_apology_for_saying.html">Dem Rep: No apology for saying GOP mendacity is worthy of Goebbels

And John King on CNN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x545673">Despite John King's Nagging, Rep.Cohen Not Backing Down On Comparing GOP Lies To Goebbels' Propaganda

(All 3 links contain commentary, transcripts and video)

[cosmicone]

1. K& R ... we need more like him .. many many more... n/t

[RandomThoughts]

2. Cattapiller with many feet.

How some try to create monarchs.

[No Elephants]

3. OMFG! He violated Godwin's law!!111!! Oh, wait. Godwin's law is an internet joke; and (my guess)

probably one formulated by a RWer.


Yes, Republicons make a big lie and repeat it ad infinitum, hoping it will be believed--and often many do believe it. And yes, Goebbels had something to say on the subject of big lies.

Don't engage in behavior if you don't want people to describe it ACCURATELY.

[Occulus]

62. EVERYONE uses Godwin's Law wrong. It doesn't mean what nearly everyone thinks it does.

All Godwin's Law says is that, as an internet (originally, Usenet) discussion continues and develops, the probability that someone will make a Nazi reference approaches ever closer to 1.

That's it. It definitely does not and never did mean that the person who draws that comparison automatically loses the argument. In fact, that part of it very well may have been made up by rightwingers- probably because their positions are so often comparable to those of Nazis.

:D

[sabrina 1]

4. No more caving in to their bullying. Good for him!

[molly77]

27. He did his part to bring truth to the national dialog.

The lies and violent rhetoric have become worse since 2000 when bush stole the election. All the Supremes who voted to go against our constitution and select a president should be replaced.Why is it we can see a coup in far off places but not at home? Maybe the same as a family counselor sees problems families live with but do not see. Have read recently in the Guardian comments that the whole country is disassociated. Think about the bombardment of lies and terror we are constantly exposed to..There are always exceptions BUT...

[AlbertCat]

114. The lies and violent rhetoric have become worse since 2000

The lies and violent rhetoric have become worse since Newt Gingrich, during the Clinton Administration, sent out a manual on how to demonize Liberals, with a list of negative terms to associate with Dems and how to use them.

It has been a deliberate and thought out plan by the GOP since the 90's. They are wholly responsible for the tone and have been for decades.

[Nossida]

5. ridiculous

What exactly is it Dr Goebbels lied about?

Analogies to the Nazi's are becoming so common, it is losing its punch.
Both sides have fallen into this childishness. Nazi this, and Nazi that.
Frankly, if you study History, Dr Goebbels wasn't a liar. He hated the
Jews and said so, he hated the Communist an said so. he may have misled
the German people on the situation at the Front, or the status of the
Wonder Weapons, but that is common with any Superpower.

All Democrats should eradicate using the Nazi's as a benchmark.
It wouldn't make republicans any less the pure manipulative liars they are.
But invoking the Nazi's degrades us. We are better than them, and need not
step down to their gutter.

Call the republicans the Corporate Sellout Whores they are. And single out
exactly were they are telling lies. If anyone invokes the Nazi's, let it be
the republicans. they are after all Corporate Fascist, and very similar to
the NSDAP glockenspiel.
Anti Gay
Anti Union
Reactionary
Ultra Fanatics
Pro War
The list goes on and on.

[Turborama]

6. Read this

And educate yourself about "The Big Lie": http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x233136

"Dr Goebbels wasn't a liar" - Wow! :crazy:

[bowens43]

14. Nonsense.

He compared methods of spreading propaganda not what they lied about and he was 100% right on the money.

[Enthusiast]

16. For millions of us the Third Reich

represents the greatest evil ever perpetrated on mankind. There are many parallels to the modern day fascist Republican Party.

Remember back to the way the right wing demonized and marginalized Bill Clinton -a duly elected president. They attacked him unmercifully 24/7 from the very moment he took office. While he was not a model citizen he fell far short of the terrible traitorous criminal they made him out to be. These insane allegations served to undermine the president's power and damage the Democratic Party brand.

In 2000 the Republican Party falsified the results of an election to put 'their man' in power. Is there a greater act of treason? Maybe there is a greater act of treason -ignoring clear warnings of a terrorist attack that resulted in 9/11. As if that were not bad enough this confederate regime then falsified intelligence to justify the invasion of a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with 9/11. Then, as if all this were not bad enough, this far right regime actually engaged in torture just as our WWII enemies had many years before.

In 2008 these right wing malcontents launched an even greater attack on newly elected President Obama. And the right wing disinformation campaign extends to anyone or anything that could possibly be considered a product of "liberal" influence.

These actions and the massive disinformation campaign looks very much like that of the historical Nazis of 1930s Germany. The only thing missing is the violence component. And that could change at any moment. So the contemporary American right wing is not only very much like the Nazis of old, they might actually have been inspired by the Nazis to recreate their own little fascist nation right here in the good old U.S.A.

These people are Nazis, no question about it.

[molly77]

30. I agree

Nazis are racists. Obama was not invited to Chelsea Clinton's wedding. He won't be invited to prince william's either. He stands in front of the crowds and sells what they tell him too.Bill Clinton said in the primaries in SC there was a time Obama would have been fetching his coffee.

[The Wizard]

37. You are correct

Confederate and Nazi fit, as they exhibit character traits of both. Never apologize to a criminal.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

68. what you said!

That cretin from Florida now is stomping around with four personal security guards. That is a sign of things to come, unfortunately. Watch Blackwater seek a federal contract to provide similar coverage for all GOP congressmen.

[JudyM]

149. "The only thing missing is the violence component. "

I agree with much of what you wrote, but there is a vast difference between ugly lying propaganda and the kind of actual, depraved violence that killed millions of people. I think the Jews et al would have been delighted to be living in the conditions we're suffering under here in the US today under Boehner and Limbaugh. It is not a continuum, as ugly and infuriating as the rethugs are, they are most decidedly not Nazis. It is not imo a valid comparison unless you are specifically limiting it to lies and propaganda. But please don't minimize the reality of those deaths. The violence, the deaths, of Nazi Germany put it in an entirely different category. "The only thing missing" is in fact an enormous distinction.

[RZM]

155. Thank you

I appreciate your measured comments. The Nazis aren't history's greatest villains because they lied about people. Politicians and pundits lie everyday all over the world. That doesn't make them Nazis, it just makes them liars. Big difference.

[on point]

181. Don't compare the start of the timeline with the end of it

It is important to compare the behavior of the two groups, Nazi's and American rethug right at comparable periods in their respective timeline. The rethugs are behaving like, and using the tactics of the Nazi's early in their history, before they had fully seized power and their complete evil became all too clear to see as it was later in their regime.

That is the lesson and warning. See the same behavior, tactics and even similar hatreds. Know that if it is not stopped or curtailed it could turn into the complete evil later in their reign. Do not excuse them because they have not YET had a chance to resemble the Nazi's completely. For then it will be too late and the US may have to pay the same terrible price Germany paid for their failure to stop the Nazi's in time.

[Enthusiast]

188. Thank you. This is a point lost

on many Americans. Up until the moment the German people realized they were under the control of a rabid dictator many were completely unaware and unsuspecting. It is not in the best interest of these fascists to expose themselves and their goals.

[JudyM]

192. The point is not lost at all, we get it. But what do you think their goals are? Genocide? n/t

[JudyM]

191. Ok. So you are suggesting there is an actual *genocide* brewing?

That is a bit extreme. What the rethugs are doing is clearly of great significance, and they are working toward installing a complete extreme fundie corporatocracy, but that is still a far cry from genocide. Plus, genocide would defeat their purposes; the more consumers, the more workers, the cheaper the labor and the greater the profits. Maddow's take: http://www.nationalreview.com/media-blog/257652/rachel-maddows-new-tone-no-nazi-references-greg-pollowitz

[Enthusiast]

193. I would think an extreme fundie corporatocracy

would be bad enough to satisfy anyone. Besides, this nation was founded on genocide so it isn't much of a stretch.

[JudyM]

199. So your answer seems to be little realistic danger of genocide.

Which, I hope, brings the key distinction into clearer focus.

[RZM]

153. Your post illustrates a central problem of Nazi references in comtemporary US politics

Demonizing opponents, starting wars, election shenanigans . . . all of these are common throughout history and and continue to be widespread today. Sure the Nazis did them, but so have a myriad of other governments. Some of these things, particularly the demonizing of opponents, goes on in functioning democracies as we speak and even *GULP* right here on DU.

When the Republicans create a single-party dictatorship and commit wanton genocide, you'll have something. Until then, you're just misusing history. You're right about one thing though -- the Nazis were absolute evil. But they didn't earn that title from making their opponents out to be bad people. They earned it through some of the worst crimes against humanity perpetrated in modern times. I fear that the real reason that people make Nazi references nowadays is not because the comparisons are apt, but because they want to use the Nazi legacy to portray their opponents in the worse possible light. That's abusing history, plain in simple.

[JudyM]

159. As Rachel Maddow just emphatically pointed out, "Nothing is like Nazi Germany. Nothing." n/t

[Enthusiast]

187. Yeah, on this she is correct.

But anything remotely resembling Nazi Germany must be guarded against.

[Enthusiast]

186. Sorry, I simply do not agree.

You say, "Demonizing opponents, starting wars, election shenanigans . . . all of these are common throughout history and and continue to be widespread today."

But, you see, not engaging in these things is what has made the experiment in American democracy so unique. We know all about the exceptions.

Demonizing at the hands of the right wing has gone far beyond the usual political rhetoric. They have resorted to pure fabrications that are little less damaging than those the Nazis used to dehumanize the jews. And they have advocated violence against their political opponents. Nearly the entire media is in the hands of these thugs. They use this media to whip up anti-liberal/progressive diatribe 24/7.

In 2003 we invaded a sovereign nation based entirely on fabricated evidence. We all know the evidence was fabricated. WE KNOW IT. The war resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents. Yes, this act was not identical to the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis in WWII but it is certainly close enough to draw comparisons.

The 2000 election went far beyond simple election shenanigans. The SCOTUS was systematically stacked with judges favorable to a specific election outcome. Any time there is a five to four decision it should raise an alarm, especially when it concerns the outcome of a presidential election. The election of our president is symbolic, fundamental and is at the very foundation of our democracy. Yet five justices chose to order a state election board to stop counting votes in a close election. You call this "election shenanigans"? All five of the justices were political allies of the president elect's father and the president elects brother was governor of the state in question. This is not a coincidence. A presidential election is not stolen with good intentions in mind. This goes way beyond simple election shenanigans.

When the Republicans create a single-party dictatorship and commit wanton genocide it will be far too late to do anything about it. This is a lesson of history that must be recognized now, before it's too late. The media is in the hands of too few. And although there is no obvious 'single-party dictatorship', many of us are alarmed that the Democratic Party is no longer responsive to the wishes of the citizenry. The Democratic Party is acting more Republican/corporatist all the time.

The real reason that I make Nazi references nowadays is because the comparisons are real and tangible and we ignore these at our peril.

[socialist_n_TN]

194. "When the Republicans create a single-party dictatorship...........

and commit wanton genocide, you'll have something." Might be a little too late then. don'tcha think?

I see nothing wrong in pointing out, TRUTHFULLY, the similarities between an evil regime well known in humanity's past and people who are walking in the SAME damn shoes along the same time line. I'd rather they be recognized BEFORE they have the power to "....commit wanton genocide". How about you?

[Capn Sunshine]

170. Theres a reason for that "reminder of the modern day Republican Party"

Post WW2, immediately after,Poppy Bush together with his partners at his bank that was seized during the war for assisting the Nazis, Brown Brothers Harriman, and Union Bank, and Bush Lawyer Alan Dulles hatched a plan to bring key Nazi propagandists to the US. They mixed them in with the Nazis from the rocket program, and immediately these guys went to work in various DC operations connected to the Republican Party. The well-known Bush family connections to the Nazi War Machine, including financing the construction of several death camps, is http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=bush+harriman+bank&aq=1v&aqi=g-v2g-o1&aql=&oq=Bush+Harriman%2C+&pbx=1&fp=f71c9d2b3ccf4dd5"> well known. Several ex Nazis were discovered working for George Sr.s presidential campaign and resigned. But chances are they work for Murdoch or the Party machinery still. The eerie similarity of the Bush regimes constructs to Nazi germany was not lost on many of us.

[ingac70]

17. GOPers think like he did...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

[molly77]

31. And then came WikiLeaks

[LiberalLovinLug]

146. Hope

That's what Wikileaks gives us. But do you notice that the MSM news is ignoring Wikileaks now. Unless Assange is brought into court somewhere (ie as long as he is put in a bad light) this story and all the stories Wikileaks breaks, will be ignored.

And any good their revelations do will also be ignored or denied

"US denies WikiLeaks spurred revolt in Tunisia"

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/129883/us-denies-wikileaks-spurred-revolt.html

[geckosfeet]

21. Sorry. You have been lied to and you are being decieved. Try to get a grip. eom

[Thor_MN]

22. Hypocrisy or Irony?

"All Democrats should eradicate using the Nazi's as a benchmark."

"If anyone invokes the Nazi's, let it be
the republicans. they are after all Corporate Fascist, and very similar to
the NSDAP glockenspiel."

So no Democrat should use the term Nazi, they should use the German acronym for the Nazi party instead?

I fully agree with your last paragraph, the one where you called the Republicans Nazis...

[Celebration]

26. totally agree

I think what Cohen said was stupid, among other things.

[Turborama]

29. You totally agree with someone who wrote that "Dr Goebbels wasn't a liar"?

Right, your concern is noted.

[Celebration]

40. Goebbels was evil, okay?

But comparing Republicans to Nazis is just not smart, and inappropriate. Cohen is an idiot, but mainly for using the loaded "blood libel". That phrase should not be used in ANY context other than the historical context. That is what the right wing has tried to do, bring it out into a thing where they are the persecuted ones, like the Jews. That phrase should be a no-no with progressives. It plays into the hands of the right wing if we use it in a way that is other than historical.

[Turborama]

41. You've fallen into the same trap the MSM has

Got caught up in the: "oh noez, he's comparing Republicans to Nazis!!!" thing rather than the actual message he is sending, which, in a nutshell, is about them both using the exact same "Big Lie" strategy to fool the masses (if you don't know what the "Big Lie" strategy is, see the link below).

He did use the blood libel phrase "in a way that is historical". Here's the transcript: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x233136

[Celebration]

44. exactly why Cohen should not give them ammunition

What would you expect?

And blood libel is blood libel, and SHOULD NOT BE USED in any sort of comparison to now. I read the transcript. Using those loaded words now, when complaining about Republicans and their lying,
is just S T U P I D. To most people, it would give Palin retroactive permission for her comments. There were other ways to complain about Republican lying that would not have caused an uproar. An
example is the guy who said people should make a drinking game out of it.

[Turborama]

60. I've never had time for anyone who's worried about how the Republicons might react...

...when they are called out in public.

If you actually read the transcript and still think he shouldn't have called them out for constantly using the "Big Lie" strategy, then maybe you have a difficulty in comprehension.

And, yeah, a drinking game is really going to wake people up to the GOP's decades long disinformation campaign!

[Celebration]

128. would Obama have said something like that?

Who is classier in their speeches--Cohen or Obama? Which can claim the moral high ground?

Why in the heck would you want someone to stoop to the lowest common denominator?

There are tons of references that can be made to Republicans lying without going *there*--and it is not just about what Republicans think. Yes it gives them ammunition, but why? Because it was a totally classless thing to say, and has the potential to put into an independent voters' mind that "both sides do it."

[Turborama]

147. What sort of stupid question is that?

Just because it's not something President Obama would say, doesn't make it untrue and unnecessary.

I thought we'd concluded all of this down thread?

BTW Thanks for constantly kicking this thread and helping Cohen's message reach a wider audience. :thumbsup: ;-)

[Harry Monroe]

50. And the Republicans aren't?

“The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus become vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State”
Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister to Adolph Hitler

Our problem is that we back down whenever something this incendiary is said. Even if it is the truth. And the Republicans are successful because they won't back down. Even if it is a lie. If what we say is a lie, then we should back down from it, lest we lose our integrity. If it is the truth, we should NEVER back down. We should keep hammering home the truth.

[Celebration]

51. so far the Republicans

Don't send people in mass to the gas chamber. Let's try to keep things in perspective, okay, and be a bit smarter than Cohen? Is that too much to ask? He shouldn't have gone there.

[Turborama]

58. Cohen didn't say that the Republicans are about to send people en mass to gas chambers

You need to get the perspective on what he actually said, maybe try reading the transcript again. :shrug:

[Celebration]

61. exactly why he should not have used that reference

Comparisons to Nazis are too loaded. Nobody looks at what was actually said. He should not have used the reference to Nazis, in *any* context. There is virtually noone that will look at the meaning behind it. The reference itself was inappropriate, at best, and STUPID, no matter how he meant it.

[Turborama]

63. He's comparing Goebbels use of the "Big Lie" to the GOP's use of the "Big Lie"

His comparison was 100% appropriate and correct. You're worried about how telling that truth will make the Republicans upset. I'm not. I've been comparing their tactics to what Goebbels did for years.

People will absolutely understand the meaning behind it if they actually listen to what he said in that speech and afterwards in defense of it.

Again, his reference to Goebbels' "Big Lie" strategy was 100% appropriate and correct.

[Celebration]

64. why go there?

Not necessary, and stupid. Much better to make a reference to a drinking game. That was actually funny. Making a reference to Nazis makes the normal person think he is a nutcase--which, by the way, he is.

[Turborama]

67. Because it's a valid comparison that has needed to be said for a long time

It was necessary and LONG needed. Fuck that timidity bullshit.

The GOP's use of Goebbels' "Big Lie" strategy is anything but funny. It's a very dangerous game they are playing and should be treated as seriously as Rep. Cohen has.

You say you voted for him and later state that he's a "nutcase". Why on earth did you vote for a "nutcase", if that was a true story?

[Celebration]

73. well, he is less of a nutcase than his primary competition

In the primary, he ran against our former mayor. Cohen is only a nutcase in the sense that he is inflammatory for no good reason, and doesn't think before he shoots off his mouth, gives the Republicans plenty of ammunition to criticize, etc. That's bad, but honestly in comparison to our former mayor Herenton, who is probably certifiably paranoid, he seems almost normal. Don't get me started on Herenton, who used to be a normal and decent politician decades ago. I have a theory that mental illness set in after he started to do cocaine, although I have no proof of that. I am wondering what an MRI would show. Herenton, although he is black and has had plenty of support among black Democratic politicians here, is also far from being progressive. He wanted to sell off our utility company to private industry, and I assume that was because of graft and fraud involving the private placement. He seems to me to be a sad case of mental illness/power complex/graft, etc. That is the state of politics here in Memphis. Obviously I wasn't going to vote for the female, black Republican who parroted every right wing talking point.

[Harry Monroe]

100. Gas chamber?

I never said anything about gas chambers!! I merely point out that the Republicans are employing the same "Big Lie" tactic used by Goebbels. That is a fact. I'm not painting them with guilt by association here. But this is truth we should not back off of.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Did not the Republicans do exactly this in the run up to the Iraqi war? Despite it's being associated with the Nazi's, it is the exact same tactic employed by the Bush Administration.

[lark]

104. Repblicans aren't using the gas chamber - it'd be too obvious

They are, however, bound and determined to end free health care so the poor will die, just as those that need transplants and don't have insurance are now dying in AZ. How is that not murder of the lower class and very Nazi like? They don't need gas chambers, just deny healthcare and you get the same result without being so visible. Ending free education is another one of their long term goals to move us towards a Dictatorship. Ignorant folks are not likely to fight back as hard when their rights are taken away and more likely to be compliant sheep doing the masters bidding. They can also control the educational system better and spread their lies more easily with non-standardized education.

[glinda]

183. You have that right along with starving and homelessness.

[Amonester]

184. cheney/bush/rumsfeld/ sent thousands upon thousands to the long night

(some say around a million) BASED ON LIES

plus thousands of us troopers

but, hey, all these human beings were not sent to GAS CHAMBERS...

so that proves the repukkklicans cheney/bush/rumsfeld/rove & co R not like the nasty NAZIS

oh, and they tortured too, just like the nasty NAZIS did

and, and, ans, they BRAG about it now, everywhere they go

but hey, they didn't send them to chambers (prescott bush sold them the gas cans BTW)

[socialist_n_TN]

55. You do realize that Cohen is jewish, right?...........

Kind of like the "n" word, he can use blood libel because HIS ethnic group was the one smeared by "blood libel". The lily white Alaska cracker hasn't earned the right to use the phrase.

Disagree with you about Steve Cohen. I wish he were my rep or I wish my rep were MORE like him. If he could keep his seat in Memphis, I wish he'd run statewide for Senate.

[Celebration]

57. yeah, he is Jewish

LOL, Steve Cohen would go down in flames if he ran for Senate, trust me.

Unlike you, I don't feel that blacks should denigrate themselves by using the "N" word. We don't need to segregate our "acceptable words" by ethnic group. We are all Americans. If people don't want other people using certain terms, then they need to set the example.

[socialist_n_TN]

72. ANY Dem is PROBABLY going to go down in..............

flames in the state of Tennessee in the next senatorial election cycle. So Tennessee might as well get the MOST left leaning and MOST outspoken candidate we can find to run against the Republican. IF a Dem would FULLY deliniate the class divide in this relatively poor state, they might shock the world and win. Or at least run a strong campaign.

But I don't want him to resign the House to do it. We need his voice there and yes, he probably WOULD lose.

[indepat]

101. For someone of Cohen's ethnicity to call out pubs who perpetually use the Nazi

playbook when referring to anything liberal, is both refreshing and long overdue. If only more dems had my Congressman's chuputz(?) (balls) to call out pubs, who have long denigrated the term liberal to the point it is thought by too many as a vile unpatriotic word/person, for what and who pubs really represent, and also went to great lengths to use denigrating/derogatory terms in referring anyone/anything not liberal/centrist, the political landscape could be leveled a bit. ;)

[Raksha]

179. This old Jewish hippie agrees with you 100%

Re "For someone of Cohen's ethnicity to call out pubs who perpetually use the Nazi playbook when referring to anything liberal, is both refreshing and long overdue."

Refreshing??? Hell YES, like a cold drink of water in the desert! Steve Cohen has the right to use the Nazi analogy any way he wants, and in this case it's perfectly applicable and appropriate. And likewise the term "blood libel." Considering how many of our people were murdered because of the blood libel, I'd even say it's his birthright. But what made me happiest of all is the fact that he DIDN'T back down and he didn't apologize. Where has apologizing to Republicans ever gotten us?

Re "If only more dems had my Congressman's chuputz(?)"

The word you're looking for is chutzpah. A whole lot more of Steve Cohen's brand of chutzpah is needed on the left side aisle, by Jewish and gentile Congress critters alike.

[liberation]

123. So by you not answering the previous post directly, you are indeed admiting Goebbels did not lie?

You are actually making a case about Goebbels being a truth teller. Wow, just wow.

It is always the same ain't it? As soon as an "uppity" liberal gets traction exposing the hubris from the GOP for what it is, some of you get your panties all tied up in a wad complaining how that is not very nice.

[Celebration]

129. It doesn't even matter

Any reference to Nazis puts us on their level. Why do that? It is counterproductive and wrong.

[liberation]

139. Who is this "us" and why do you keep ignoring the previous point?

The only way you can justify that such references put us "on their level" is if you're prioritizing the creation of a false analogy over intellectual honesty.

Those who want to impose arbitrary absolutes over other people's discourse, tend to have agendas, at least in my experience.

[Celebration]

141. It has to do with bringing up the historical reference

It is simply a bad idea. Whether "fair" or not, it gives the other side the ammunition to declare an equivalency. Nobody is going to stop to think about whether Goebbels was a liar or not. That isn't the first adjective I think of to describe the dude anyway--he is evil, pure and simple. The equivalency may be false, but it doesn't matter. The words are out there. Have you heard Obama making Nazi references? If he had talked about the right wing being liars like Goebbels, do you think his popularity would have soared, as it did, or would it have gone down like Palin? Do you even care about actually winning elections? I can tell you for sure that Cohen has hurt his stock here, because a lot of moderates voted for him, and it is all anyone can talk about.

[liberation]

166. Once again, it is an arbitrary absolute standard

if anything you seem to be panicking over the prospect of this comparison being apt.

[Enthusiast]

189. Nice nt

[molly77]

28. Fascism should be called corporatism because it is the combination of govt and corporations

Benito Mussolini

[Harry Monroe]

48. Deluded much?

“The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus become vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State”
Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister to Adolph Hitler

[FourScore]

53. O ye of 15 posts...BULLSHIT!!! n/t

[harun]

69. Krugman has implemented policy on his blog/articles that anything about

Nazi's, not completely relevant, will be deleted.

This Nazi talk is using anti-Nazi propaganda for ones own propaganda purposes. It is much easier to use the years of propaganda against Nazi's then to create a well reasoned argument. Not that the Nazi's didn't deserve the years of bad press ;-).

Reason and thoughtful discussion just aren't part of the public discourse. The discussions and arguments are for tripping peoples emotions, not mind. The Corporate Media wants arguments, drama and entertainment, not facts or truth.

While the GOP has to be called out for lies, harshly. I have to agree with you about the Nazi talk.

[Turborama]

74. The GOP's blatant use of Goebbels' "Big Lie" tactic won't stop if you bury your head in the sand

In fact, they have got away with it for so long because their critics have been far too timid about calling them out in public like this.

Nothing in Cohen's well reasoned argument is invalid.

[harun]

76. I agree, they need to call them out on it and not stop calling them out on it.

I see Franken in the Senate do it, but not many others. He tells them "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts". Not many others have the guts to say it.

[bhikkhu]

85. Unfortunately, the Nazi's are the best benchmark for certain kinds of behavior

One needs to take care to say what one means and to not abuse assumptions and so forth, but I think in this case the parallel was well stated and apt.

A knee-jerk rejection to any mention of WWII characters is a poor use of our recent history.

[liberation]

122. Wow, you concern is so dense that you ended up making a case for Goebbels being truthful

Funny ain't it, as soon as the hubris from the right gets exposed. Some of you start sounding the "alarm bells" of "concern"...

[ProfessorGAC]

138. You're Kidding, Right?

While your list of Republican maladies may be factual, the very presense of your first line negates the validity of any opinion you may have.

[TxVietVet]

165. I like to call them what they are: CONSERVANAZIS

they continue with nthe lies, the demonization of personalities and political beliefs. The conservanazis cannot give a true definition of "liberal" without implying that it's the dirtiest thing in the world.
I say, give 'em a taste of what they put out. I'm glad Rep. Cohen told the truth in his description. We need more like him.

[OrwellwasRight]

176. He lied that the "Socialists and the Jews stabbed the real Germans

in the back by surrendering at the end of WWI," that the cause of the Great Depression was "the Jews," and that you could not be a "real German" and a "Jew." WTF more do you need??? The Holocaust was based on Goebbels' lies.

Ignorance of history is what degrades us, not being ever vigilant against fascism, scapegoating, and hate.

[SpiralHawk]

7. "Smirk. Whine. Sneer." - Republicon Liars (R)

[molly77]

32. Funny

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AC_Mem]

I'm proud to say he is my congressman

I wrote to him to tell him that I was proud of him and that I would be volunteering for 2012 just as soon as the democratic plan is rolled out.

He is the only political good thing we have in Tennessee..

Annette

[AC_Mem]

9. I'm proud to say he is my congressman

I wrote to him to tell him that I was proud of him and that I would be volunteering for 2012 just as soon as the democratic plan is rolled out.

He is the only political good thing we have in Tennessee..

Annette

[AC_Mem]

I'm proud to say he is my congressman

I wrote to him to tell him that I was proud of him and that I would be volunteering for 2012 just as soon as the democratic plan is rolled out.

He is the only political good thing we have in Tennessee..

Annette

[AC_Mem]

10. I'm proud to say he is my congressman

I wrote to him to tell him that I was proud of him and that I would be volunteering for 2012 just as soon as the democratic plan is rolled out.

He is the only political good thing we have in Tennessee..

Annette

[AC_Mem]

I blame my cat Joe

He thinks he can type for some reason and caused this to quadtriple post!

Please excuse the duplicate posts,
Annette & Joe

What is it about cats and computers??? :)

[molly77]

33. I know I know

Mine used to come flying through the air and land on the keyboard late at night.

[AC_Mem]

11. I blame my cat Joe

He thinks he can type for some reason and caused this to quadtriple post!

Please excuse the duplicate posts,
Annette & Joe

What is it about cats and computers??? :)

[Enthusiast]

19. LOL!

[lark]

106. Don't know, but I can't sit down at mine without cat company

They both come running, rub up against the screen, want me to play so attack my fingers, walk across the keyboard, etc. I always have to plan some time for cat play before I can settle down to chat on DU, check out Youtube, etc.

[KansDem]

115. "What is it about cats and computers??? "

Well, they have something in common: my Mac can often be found in "sleep" mode. My cat is the same.

Some days I try to figure out which one sleeps more...

[Enthusiast]

18. Good for you, Annette.

We wish you well.

[mikeysnot]

71. You don't say?

...

[Posteritatis]

201. Yes, but are you proud to say he is your congressman?

:)

[Axrendale]

12. Good for him!

Comparing Republican propaganda tactics to the methods of Goebbels is a fine old Democratic tradition that has worked wonders for us in the past, and will continue to do so for as long as it continues to be true.

FDR used this line (along with many other gems) to batter the GOP into a state of humiliating defeat in 1944, as he and the Democrats of his day rolled over them to their fourth consecturive victorious Presidential Election.

All ahead to 2012!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gztvtSyTdY

[Turborama]

86. Excellent find! ^^^Everyone should watch this^^^

Proof that fearlessly calling the Republicons out on their propaganda techniques can work.

Compare and contrast the reception to what he said way back then to the reception some are giving Cohen now for saying exactly the same thing.

Thanks for the share.

[Axrendale]

158. You are most welcome.

:)

[tpsbmam]

182. The Fala Speech....Roosevelt comparing Republican tactics to "the dictators abroad"

(for the benefit of hearing impaired DUers, those w/ dial-up, etc)

Pertinent excerpt:

The opposition in this year has already imported into this campaign a very interesting thing, because it is foreign. They have imported the propaganda technique invented by the dictators abroad. Remember, a number of years ago, there was a book, Mein Kampf, written by Hitler himself. The technique was all set out in Hitler's book - and it was copied by the aggressors of Italy and Japan. According to that technique, you should never use a small falsehood; always a big one, for its very fantastic nature would make it more credible - if only you keep repeating it over and over and over again.

[davidpdx]

13. Last year I compared one of my bosses to Gobbels

Needless to say, the person whom I said it in front of didn't think it was that funny.

[Joanne98]

15. YAY! Double down dude!

[LawnKorn]

20. K&R

[6000eliot]

23. You know this whole thing is going to end only in Repubs finger pointing at every Dem who

says anything remotely incendiary.

[molly77]

35. Truth wins out. They tell lies and we are afraid? That didn't work.

[grahamhgreen]

79. They point, even when the president institutes their neocon policy objectives.

They point, Dems cower.

Enough.

[Celebration]

24. Not good!

Sorry, he is my congressman and I voted for him and I am disappointed on him.

Now the guy that said a drinking game needs to be made out of Republican lies?? Now that was great, because it was true AND funny.

Blood libel should not be used in this context, nor should Nazis.

[Darth_Kitten]

25. Finally, somebody is starting to get it right.

:D

[cali]

36. I think the comparison was apt, BUT

anytime someone makes a remark like this, it becomes all about the comment and not about that which is being commented on.

[Turborama]

34. I Have No Problem Whatsoever With Rep. Cohen Linking The GOP To "The Big Lie" Strategy Of Goebbels

And posted a full explanation why as an OP here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x233136

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. Please dont back down

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. DO. NOT. BACK. DOWN!!!!!! K&R!!

[robcon]

42. Cohen is an ass.

Should be censored. The Repugs are repugnant, but what he said dishonors himself.

[Celebration]

45. he is an ass

and he fires off without thinking. Maybe he should be censured. Just let it die down, I think.

[robcon]

46. Probably right, Celebration, but the guy won't apologize.

I think that's awful.

[osteenq]

43. Some people like to act...

...like comparing the GOP to the Nazis is out of line because they haven't erected concentration camps (yet), but I disagree.

The Nazis were into a bunch of other evil crap apart from genocide.

[socialist_n_TN]

56. Yeah. The Nazis didn't have concentration camps...............

in 1933 either. I'd like to stop it before it gets to that point myself. I'll admit to some self interest in this personal position. The first people the Nazis went after were the Communists, Marxists, and socialists.

[Historic NY]

47. There was nothing there they must be afraid of their own propaganda

agenda.

[woo me with science]

49. I am weary of all the arguments about people's metaphors and how they said things,

rather than WHAT they said.

[Kingofalldems]

52. K and R for the unreccers

[Zambero]

54. He's 100% correct

Republicans have been using this repeat the lie tactic since the Gingrich days. The only difference is that is was used selectively in the past, and now it's universal and unrelenting. To the far right, the end justifies the means -- deliberately present misinformation to the extent that it tilts public opinion and ultimately affects election results (= political power and enabling conservative policy goals).

[The Stranger]

59. Interesting that instead of focusing on exposing the GOP's lies, they attack Cohen.

This is their modus operandi.

[StarsInHerHair]

143. I think they call that a tell

nt

[FourScore]

65. I think Cohen hurts the (very excellent) point that he is making by drawing the Goebbels analogy.

Cohen is spot-on with the content of his message. I just do not think anyone needs to succumb to Nazi analogies. I don't like it when the Republicans do it and I certainly don't like it when the Democrats do it. It's playing political games on the same level as Glenn Beck and other extreme idiots. Rep. Cohen is much better than that. It is also predictable that everyone will now talk about the Nazi comparison rather than the content of his speech -- which is really what needs to be discussed.

Sorry, I think it's wrong.

[Turborama]

70. This is nothing like uneducated Tebaggers using the Nazi insult because Glenn Beck told them so

That kind of far too common false equivalence is what is wrong with today's political discourse, online and on TV.

BTW Cohen's comparison with Goebbels use of the "Big Lie" is the very excellent point he was making.

Hopefully, now he has brought Goebbels' use of the "Big Lie" to the public's attention more people will be educated about what it is and how the GOP are using the EXACT SAME strategy.

[Celebration]

75. I so TOTALLY agree with you

And can't believe the support for this here.

[Mz Pip]

80. Me either

This sounds like some of the comparisons we hear from the teabaggers about Obama and the Democrats. But now it's okay? :crazy:

[Turborama]

82. False equivalence. The Tebaggers call Obama a Nazi because Beck said so. Cohen calls out the Big Lie

Just as FDR did back in his day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gztvtSyTdY

You really need to find out what Cohen actually said before comparing him to Teabaggers.

[Mz Pip]

83. Sorry, but I

don't care for the comparisons wherever they come from. And I don't see where you get the idea that Teabaggers or Republican congresscritters compare Obama to Hitler just because Beck says so. Those idiots are more than capable of being crass all by themselves.

[Turborama]

87. Which "Republican congresscritters compare Obama to Hitler"?

And You haven't been paying attention if you don't think Beck has influenced Teabaggers (his viewers) that Obama is like Hitler.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=beck+obama+hitler&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=">Here You Go

[Mz Pip]

109. Okay, you win

I'm not paying attention. Have it your way. :eyes:

[Celebration]

84. I saw what he said

I am not saying he is equivalent to teabaggers, but he is totally out of bounds making that reference, whether it makes sense to him or us or not.

[Turborama]

88. Why is it out of bounds to tell the truth about the GOP's propaganda tactics being like Goebbels'?

It is true and needs to be said.

We're going around in circles about this. You think that Nazi comparisons should not be used when they are valid. I do.

How about that for a conclusion?

[Celebration]

89. LOL

sounds like we wholeheartedly disagree with each other. I don't like politicians who go over top with their language when not necessary. This was over the top. This was not necessary.

[Turborama]

92. Yeah we do, wholeheartedly

Calling the GOP out for their BIG LIE strategy has been lacking for a VERY long time.

They have been allowed to get away with it by their MSM cronies and timid critics for way too long and it's beyond time they were called out on it in their face. just. like. this.

[robcon]

90. Because it is untrue, and trivializes Hitler.

n/t

[Turborama]

93. It is true, they are using the same tactics. And BTW, he didn't mention Hitler.

Maybe you don't know what you're talking about and are just reacting to the title of this thread?

You should look into what the Republicans have been doing, what he said about it and look at what Goebbels said before you start jumping to the GOP's defense: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x233136

[Celebration]

94. the reason why Obama's speech was so WONDERFUL

is because it didn't answer the Republicans tit for tat. It basically ignored them. His speech stood on its own without lowering himself to their level. It is the high road, it is the right way to act, it appeals to everyone's best instincts, AND it is a winning strategy.

[Turborama]

97. Yeah, but what Cohen said has nothing to do with Obama's speech. n/t

[Celebration]

110. would Obama have said anything close to what Cohen said

Ever? No. Way too smart! He doesn't give a flying f...... what they do. He will NOT lower himself to their level, under any circumstances. Unfortunately, Cohen likes to wallow in the mud. So counterproductive!

[Turborama]

150. So what if he wouldn't?

Just because Obama wouldn't say something doesn't mean no-one else can say it. He's not Hitler, you know. ;-)

[robcon]

96. Gee: Goebbels. That's not mentioning Hitler??????

You seem somewhat desperate to defend a guy who calls his political enemies Nazis.

He should be derided, censored and voted out of office.

What Cohen did/said was horrible.

[Turborama]

98. No, Goebbels and Hitler were two different people.

Goebbels was the Nazi's propaganda minister. Cohen was discussing the how the GOP's propaganda tactics are similar to Goebbels'.

[robcon]

99. Gee, thanks. did you think I thought they were the same people?

You seem ever more desperate to defend Cohen's speech, and his lack of apology.

Calling your political enemies Nazis is reprehensible.

[Turborama]

102. You said it trivializes Hitler. Hitler wasn't mentioned by Cohen. Yes, I am defending what he said

Because he was absolutely correct.

And you are correct, tangentially. The use of comparisons between the Nazis and anyone else has to be reserved only for when it is appropriate, otherwise it will trivialize what they did.

If you want to talk about Hitler, here's a comparison I am going to make for you right here right now between the Modus Operandi of Faux news, the GOP's 24 hour propaganda channel, and what Hitler said ...

Hitler on Propaganda

In chapter six of Mein Kampf,Hitler reviewed the use of propaganda during World War I. In the course of his criticism of the German effort, he included comments on the function of propaganda in general. His statements offer insight into the methods used by the Nazi Party.

Source: Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf,translated by Ralph Manheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1943.

The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be extended in this direction.

The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes.

The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.

Once understood how necessary it is for propaganda in be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results:

It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance.

The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan. As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out.

Thus we see that propaganda must follow a simple line and correspondingly the basic tactics must be psychologically sound.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

What, for example, would we say about a poster that was supposed to advertise a new soap and that described other soaps as 'good'?
We would only shake our heads.

Exactly the same applies to political advertising.

The function of propaganda is, for example, not to weigh and ponder the rights of different people, but exclusively to emphasize the one right which it has set out to argue for. Its task is not to make an objective study of the truth, in so far as it favors the enemy, and then set it before the masses with academic fairness; its task is to serve our own right, always and unflinchingly.

[AlbertCat]

116. False equivalence.

It appears here that those (like me) who think Cohen is perfectly justified in his accusation actually listened to what he said and know something about the entire Nazi machine.

Those all upset with their panties in a wad seem to be afraid of the GOP and what it will think, didn't listen to what Cohen actually said and have reduced the Nazis to a stereotype, one note boogie man.... like an unthinking teabagger would. They want it dumbed down, just as the GOP does. Another symptom of the GOP triumph of anti-intellectualism.


Frankly I'm tired of worrying about what ignorant, knee-jerk people who "reason" with their gut instead of their brain think about anything.

You go Cohen!... Testify!

[StarsInHerHair]

142. obviously some here are just like those college students, they simply can't

understand what is being said, they don't get the message.

[Mz Pip]

77. I do too.

We should act better than the other side. The analogy may be accurate in a very narrow sense but it it does little to contribute to the real issues.

[Love Bug]

78. I agree with you

Of course Cohen is right about the Rs but the focus will be all about the comparison and the point he was trying to make will get lost.

Perhaps he should have held up a copy of the Ten Commandments and pointed to the one about not bearing false witness and watch the Rs try to squirm out of that one. Hoist them with their own petard, so to speak.

[FourScore]

81. That's a GREAT idea!!! Why hasn't anyone done that yet? n/t

[Love Bug]

108. I don't know.

The Rs are so willing to use their alleged religious beliefs to inform their politics but I'll bet most of them know very little about their 'faith.' They use fundamentalist code words when campaigning to appeal to their base but I'll bet they've never read the bible they claim to revere. I say call them out on their hypocrisy and inconsistency.

[StarsInHerHair]

144. doubtless you hated the Nazi reference where Bosnia & Serbia were at in the

90s...........what with starving people, how vulgar........right?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

66. WHERE WAS THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY LAST YEAR?

Good going, Rep. Cohen, but what took so long?

Did the Ds aim for being in the minority?

[grahamhgreen]

91. "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,

people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." -- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945


"“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over” - Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945



Steve Cohen is 100% correct. This is exactly what the republicans do.

NOTE: the term "Propaganda" and "Public Relations" are one and the same (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OrT-8gXMs)

[highplainsdem]

95. K&R. Good for him!

[marketbreakaway]

103. Rep Cohen makes me ashamed to be a Democrat

I believe that Obamacare is all wrong and that we should have had instead Medicare for all. However, the Republicans did not tell me this, I thought it up all on my own.

What I do hear the Republicans saying is that Obamacare does not do the promised thing of lowering health care costs. The Republicans are correct. What Obamacare does do is cover an additional 30 million people. Guess what folks, you cannot increase demand by 30 million without increasing supply and expect costs to fall. It is truly voodoo economics to believe Obama on that one.

How would Medicare for all decrease prices? It would not. However, Medicare for all combined with Tort reform and a relaxation of our medical provider laws just might do so. It would also eliminate the substantial overhead burden of multiple providers. It would also (hopefully) increase the economy by taking the burden off of business to supply health. It would also pay for itself by no longer allowing health insurance to be tax free income.

Sorry, did not mean to rant on about my beliefs but I wanted you to understand I am not republican but I despise Cohen for his accusations that anyone who thinks Obamacare should be repealed is a Nazi. I am NOT a Nazi.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marketbreakaway]

112. In my day...

Okay, I am giving myself away as an old timer... having become a democrat in NYC during the 1950's as part of my membership in the elevator union...

In my (admittedly old fashioned) book, real democrats do NOT:

* Use politically correct words ... FU if you don't like the way I speak would be something we would have said.
* Tote the party line ... We think for ourselves and NO ONE tells us what is right or wrong.
* We NEVER supported "the man", the 'boss' was a person for derision, not adulation. ESPECIALLY the PRESIDENT!
* We did not bow to forigners, nor did we support allowing immigrants special rights or easy access to cross borders.

Well, on and on and on. I know that the attitudes are different today but I wonder how much of that difference is simply 'rooting' for our team regardless of what we actually believe.

Here is another one for you to doubt me on...

I don't believe in global warming and instead believe that it is all a hoax to empower government to further limit our freedom...

OMG!!!! This poster must be a REPUBLICAN!!! Quick, delete this post!!!

[Turborama]

196. Hmmm

Well it seems you're describing modern day republicans.

* They call the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act "Obamacare". (http://www.google.com/search?q=Obamacare&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8">Top 100 Google results are right wing sites)

* They do say "fuck you if you don't like the way I speak".

* They think President Obama is a person who especially deserves derision.

* They believe in American-exceptionalism and do not "bow to forigners".

* They don't believe in anthropogenic global warming and instead "believe that it is all a hoax to empower government to further limit our freedom" and increase taxes.

Wow, it seems you have a lot more in common with contemporary republicans than you thought. Doesn't it?

[emilyg]

118. I join you.

[liberation]

124. Derp? It seems tha as a "Democrat" you make a great "Republican."

Hell, you even used the term Republicans use to refer to HRC: "Obamacare."

No offense... but you are, with a straight face, trying to make a case that the GOP did not lie in regards to this item of legislation. That is a mind blowing claim to make, honestly.

[EFerrari]

125. I am ashamed at what passes for thought around here sometimes.

Cohen said NOTHING like what you represent. Maybe you should go read what he said before you malign him or Democrats.

[JBoy]

132. LOL. You managed to get the term "Obamacare" in there 4 times.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

134. I see. You're a lifelong Democrat but...

[liberal N proud]

105. The GOPers and the media can never stand the truth

[Imagevision]

111. it's just like Goebbels schpiel...

[crazyjoe]

113. oxyboy just claimed Rep Cohen is a billionare wall st banker!!!

How do we get this guy off the air and into a prison where he belongs?

[AlbertCat]

120. oxyboy just claimed Rep Cohen is a billionare wall st banker!!!

Well, of course he is... he's a JEW!

But, don't forget! the GOP is nothing like the Nazis! :eyes:

[jwirr]

117. Being civil should not require us to repeat or condone the lies that

the other side is telling. If those lies mirror history they need to be called on it. Denali is as dangerous as inciting violence. If President Obama is asking me to ignore my education and the truth then I for one will refuse.

[Harry Monroe]

136. I think you meant "Denial". "Denali" is the Native American name for Mt. McKinley in Alaska.

Otherwise I agree that we should not condone Republican lies. I don't wish to compare Republicans to Nazi's but their manipulation of truth and fact is right out of Gobbels playbook. And that is a fact!! :hi:

[jwirr]

137. Oops! Spell check did not get that one. Thanks.

[1776Forever]

119. I have posted this before about the way the GOP handles their PR - it is a fact! Who among them can

deny it? The Machine does this every single day! They all get their marching orders and it is carried by all of them including their paid PR people, Rush, Hannity, Beck, et. al.

[on point]

121. Right wing acts of Intimidation also a Fascist tactic

He is right.

The right wing use of the big lie is a classic propaganda technique, as was used by the Nazi regime.

So too is using acts of intimidation via demonizing people, creating hostile environments, victim hood, creating false realities etc.

The move are all classic Fascist techniques.

There is no equivalence between the delusional false hoods of the right wing thrown against Obama and the protests the true torture and war crimes of the Bush regime.

Stating the truth about what the right wing is doing, is not equivalent to doing the same thing. Also a classic technique. Accuse your opposition of what you your self are doing and so make it impossible to be accused of it too.

[katty]

126. wow - he's got guts!!

[reflection]

127. I was proud to vote for Steve

and so was everyone in my immediate and extended family. Good on you, Steve!

[Celebration]

130. well I voted for him

And given the opportunity and his various opponents, would do it again. But I am certainly not proud of him for this. It was a huge mistake and plays directly into the hands of the right wingers. They were just waiting for an opportunity like this are really licked their chops over this one. HUGE FAIL!

[Dappleganger]

131. We went to the Holocaust museum last spring break...

they have a special exhibit on the propaganda used by the Third Reich. Our 17 yr. old son quickly noted just how eerily similar Fox News' advertisements and opinionists' rantings were to the exhibit. It was quite frightening, actually.

[diane in sf]

133. Don't back down from accurately describing the Repug tactics. They keep hurling the big lies

using the media they bought up (a deliberate strategy). And they should be called on every lie they utter.

[JohnWxy]

135. Let us praise Steve Cohen for speaking the thruth. Here is his contact page:

I contacted him and thanked him for saying what needed to be said. telling a Big-Lie and repeating over and over is the Republicants only act. That's all they can do (well, except for issuing threats on those who disagree with them)

http://cohen.house.gov/index.php?option=com_email_form&Itemid=111




RECOMMENDED!

[GillesDeleuze]

140. why is TPM a source you wouldn't normally use.

I think Josh Marshall runs a tight ship

[Turborama]

148. I would elsewhere, just not in LBN

It's a tightly run ship here, too. ;-)

[StarsInHerHair]

145. kick and recc'd

DONT BACK DOWN!

[Mongooseflies]

151. didnt our former president shrub...

mention something about catapulting the propaganda through repetition?

[jillan]

152. Fail. All the rw are talking about is the term "Nazis" & not the reason why they were called out.

While I am thrilled Cohen called them out, his whole point is lost because he used that term....all the repubs heard is that they were being compared to Nazis by a Dem member of Congress.

Don't you guys see that?

[Turborama]

160. So? Why should we care what the RW are talking about?

The curtain is being pulled on their modus operandi and they're reacting to the sunlight, so what?

[jillan]

161. Because the whole point he was trying to make is lost. Nobody is talking about the point he was

trying to make.

Name calling is not a very effective way to debate, or to make a point.

[Turborama]

168. He wasn't name calling, he was stating facts.

Maybe you've missed what he actually said?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x233136

And your explanation about why we should care what they say doesn't cut it. We shouldn't care what the RW kneejerkers are talking about, they'll never change their political ideology. What's important is that the curtain is being pulled on their propaganda tactics so the wider audience of the American populous can see it.

[jillan]

177. That's the whole point. Nobody knows what he said. You know, I know, DUers know, but it pretty much

stops right there.

"What's important is that the curtain is being pulled on their propaganda tactics so the wider audience of the American populous can see it." But the American people didn't see it, and they didn't hear it. All they heard today was that a Dem congressman called the GOP Nazis. Don't believe me? Google.

[Turborama]

178. Yes, they did see it. He has been all over the media spelling out what he meant for anyone

who didn't get it the 1st time.

Still don't get it? Watch this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x545962

[Rob H.]

198. "...his whole point is lost because he used that term..."

Thing is, Cohen didn't use that term. See for yourself.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Major Hogwash]

156. Good for him. Propaganda is propaganda is propaganda.

No matter if they don't like it that we call it what it is -- propaganda.

Lies, more lies, and bigger lies.
A decade of Fox spreading lies.
This is not going to get any better until Fox is taken off the air!!

[RZM]

157. If that's the case

Then why do you need the Nazi reference? Goebbels wasn't the only person to produce propaganda in the history of the world.

[liberation]

167. So?

He was very good at it, heck he is the bearer of the standard of excellence for propaganda.

[RZM]

180. But why was he so good at it?

Part of the reason is that after 1933, there was no competing narrative. There was no opposition politics, no free society, so Goebbels had distinct advantages. I understand that the Nazis produced propaganda when they weren't in power as well, but that never got them all the way -- it took backroom dealing and strong-arm tactics to put Hitler in power and keep him there.

So the Republicans lie . . . so what? That may not be a good thing, but it's certainly not quintessentially Nazi. Plenty of other political movements/entities have lied over and over to great effect -- both in an out of power.

[RedCloud]

162. Prescott Bush and the Nazis. They have links.

[patrice]

163. Don't back down, Steve! We will support you whenever we see you in the news. nt

[AnnieBW]

164. Look, I agree with the sentiment, but

I don't like comparing people - Dem or Rep - to Nazis. I guess I'm enough of an old-timer on the Internet that I remember Godwin's Law.

[Turborama]

172. He wasn't comparing people, he was comparing tactics and strategies.

You should read/listen to what he actually said.

Also, this has nothing to do with Godwin's Law.

[liberation]

169. These sort of threads are quite enlightening.

Funny to see all the "moderates" getting upset because something said something not nice about the GOP in public. Oh, noes!

More and more, I am starting to get the distinct impression that "concerned independent voter" and "moderate" are euphemisms for "I used to be a Republican."

[Nihil]

190. Having read the thread down this far ...

... I'm not convinced that you needed the "used to be" in your comment.

Sad how many are desperate to miss the forest of lies for the sake of
defending the pro-Republican trees ...

[bertman]

171. I just heard Rachel Maddow say that Rep. Cohen had apologized on the Ed Schultz Show

for what he said about the lies.

:shrug:


I hope he did not apologize, because what he said was right. Somebody needs to say it. Again, and again. Until it starts to sink in with the American people that they are being lied to and manipulated.

[wordpix]

173. at least someone is calling the repukes on their LIES - I'm sick of these lying P'sOS

[Historic NY]

174. Goebbles says..........

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

and his boss Adolf.....

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

“The greater the lie, the greater the chance that it will be believed”

[Beartracks]

175. It's two completely different things...

To say that a group uses propaganda the way the Nazis used propaganda is NOT the same thing as saying that that group is a bunch of Nazis.

(Any other similarities that may exist between said group and Nazis would be purely coincidental.)

-------------------------

[farmboxer]

185. Why doesn't MSM get upset with Republican lies?!

Where is all the concern by the MSM about Republican lies that they repeat over and over again?!

[robcon]

195. I think Jon Stewart has Steve Cohen's hypocrisy perfectly

Steve Cohen compares Republicans to Nazis a week after making an eloquent case for civil and honest discourse....

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-january-20-2011/word-warcraft

[Psephos]

197. Stewart is absolutely lethal there. But no one in this thread is going to watch the clip.

Not hard to figure out why.

[Vidar]

200. I'm glad someone is picking up Grayson's mantle.