Social networking under fresh attack as tide of cyber-scepticism sweeps US

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Twitter and Facebook don't connect people – they isolate them from reality, say a rising number of academics

Paul Harris in New York | Saturday January 22 2011 21.00 GMT

The way in which people frantically communicate online via Twitter, Facebook and instant messaging can be seen as a form of modern madness, according to a leading American sociologist.

"A behaviour that has become typical may still express the problems that once caused us to see it as pathological," MIT professor Sherry Turkle writes in her new book, Alone Together, which is leading an attack on the information age.

Turkle's book, published in the UK next month, has caused a sensation in America, which is usually more obsessed with the merits of social networking. She appeared last week on Stephen Colbert's late-night comedy show, The Colbert Report. When Turkle said she had been at funerals where people checked their iPhones, Colbert quipped: "We all say goodbye in our own way."

Turkle's thesis is simple: technology is threatening to dominate our lives and make us less human. Under the illusion of allowing us to communicate better, it is actually isolating us from real human interactions in a cyber-reality that is a poor imitation of the real world.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jan/22/social-networking-cyber-scepticism-twitter

---

FWIW I agree mostly with the thesis about Facebook, Twitter and cell phones, but I reckon DU gets a pass.

[bbinacan]

1. "say a rising number of academics.."

LMAO. They're more isolated than anyone.

[Safetykitten]

15. Academics agree, but still want to know how to re-tweet.

[molly77]

47. I find this interesting since Goldman Sachs is selling FB

stocks on the open market ..BUT NOT IN THE US. Recently my FB homepage has been changed. Now it says that I went to National Chengchi University nursing school. With 942 likes.I figured it was marketing since I did not go to school in Taiwan.Taiwan was at one time ranked #1 worldwide in health care. So I suppose they are very invested.

I am seeing more and more Wall Street, Academia and the govt. seem to be on the same page.

[Ruperto32]

69. Why the slur on academics?

Almost all of them teach, and interact with young people on many different levels on a daily basis. Very few other professions involve as much personal and intellectual interaction with people.

[WhiteTara]

102. Hey Ruperto32

welcome to DU :hi:

[Hissyspit]

89. Yes, I'm so totally isolated.

:eyes:

[bbinacan]

111. An academic in

Raeford? I was born in Sanford.

:evilgrin:

[egressingsparrowdrop]

98. Ah yes, those pesky, pointless elitist "academics." So nerdy and useless.

Like all those "scientists" trying to fool us about global warming, right?

They're so..."isolated" and pathetic and deserving of our scorn.

[justiceischeap]

106. I think it's because students want to know if there's a 140 character limit for their essays n/t

[msongs]

2. texting is the worst IMO...

I like to hear voices and converse on the phone. The hit value of texting was explained to me thusly by the neighboring teen: when you talk, you only talk to one at a time. when you text you can text to many people at the same time. It is the variation of the hold button - another MORE important call or person may be trying to get me so you are in the way.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. I prefer email.

I've never gotten into the whole "texting" thing, as I hate the tiny keyboards on phones, but I do prefer email over voice communications.

With email, I can dispense with all the pleasantries, like "Hi, how are you?" and then having to wait for the other person to give the obligatory "Fine, thanks!" when we both know that I neither care how he is doing nor would he tell me differently if he wasn't fine. I can get right to the meat and potatoes of the issue, and it doesn't matter if the person is available right then and there - they will get it as soon as they check their email. And, of course, it leaves an audit trail.

[Confusious]

38. It's like a little email

I find it useful to text to a friend I see almost everyday. Any joke I think of I can text to him, or if we're going to get together, it's

what time?
7:15
Ok
running late +15
OK

Back and forth calling would be a waste I think.

[treestar]

56. It also focuses people when they have to write it up

On the phone they are more likely to go off on a tangent and never get to the point. Or take so long to get there. Emails take so much less time.

[Codeine]

64. This.

I like text and email because I hate the way most people approach conversation on the phone. I hate tangents and small talk on a phone.

Get. To. The. Fucking. Point.

[Edweird]

13. I find texting to be immensely useful and convenient.

I don't have to deal with the usual voice mail nonsense or faked pleasantries. I can communicate with someone when I need to. They can respond at their leisure, as I can respond at mine. I've had relationships that, outside of an initial call, communicated solely by text - including hookups for sex and the eventual break up. In fact, texting is PERFECT for emotional exchanges. It gives you as mcuh time as you need to state your case and there isn't any shouting. No one can scream at you through text message, all they can do is text in all caps. I think it's awesome.

[kath]

28. Are you being sarcastic?

I hope...

[Edweird]

37. Wat?

[forty6]

40. I was wondering...how old are you? Or are you serious?

My cell phone service provides texting for 20 cents a text. Why would I not call someone on the phone and actually TALK to them for free instead of texting them?

I cannot understand the need to send a text to anyone. Either I will talk to them on the phone or in person. But maybe I'm just too old to understand the need to type something to someone I could just as easily talk to.

[Edweird]

41. 40 going on 26. My cell plan has unlimited everything.

You can have a slow motion conversation with anyone anywhere. Or several at once. You can be 'in touch' constantly, if that's something you like. We use more than just text - it's MMS. That enables you to send pictures, audio and animation in addition to or without plain text. Obviously it's not for everyone, but I like it. Hell, I LOVE IT.

[Codeine]

61. You don't have to be young to be a texting person.

I'm forty, forty-one next month. I send and receive thousands of texts a month.

By the way, any phone company charging 20 cents for a text ought to be taken out back and shot. Unlimited texting is the norm now, and has been for several years. You're being ripped off.

[christx30]

77. I text my wife

when I am at work sometimes. I get a minute, I shoot her a quick text about stuff that is going on. or she sends me a quick message about stuff she needs for the kids or the house. She sends me shopping lists or sandwich orders and I can pick them up on the way home. And since my plan gives me unlimited everything, it's perfect.

[Codeine]

60. +1 Exactly!

I've actually seduced people via text, as silly as that sounds. I've fought, made up, broken up, argued, ranted, and cajoled all with the aid of my little Blackberry keyboard over many years.

My current girlfriend texted me and made her feelings clear and established a now-two-year relationship without single phone call. We've probably spoken via phone a dozen times since we got together, but we've exchanged many thousands of texts. It just plain works for us.

[Edweird]

71. I won't consider a phone that doesn't have full QWERTY

The best phone for texting I've ever owned is this little guy:




(Kyocera strobe)
http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/strobe-phone/index.htm

Old, low res camera, girlie styling, no memory, screen is so small it makes any attempt at web browsing a sadistic joke, BUT for texting it was the BEST. I currently have a Samsung hunk of crap that I'm ready to dispose of. My next phone will be the HTC Touch Pro 2. I've been lusting after that one for a while and it's no longer 'bleeding edge' so the price is somewhat reasonable now.

[krabigirl]

76. I also love texting. Simple, gets the point across easily.

And i am 40. This has nothing to do with age.

[Edweird]

81. True, but there's a definite 'stay off my lawn' vibe going on here.

[Skittles]

99. LOLOL

OMG :rofl:

you demonstrate the gist of the article to PERFECTION

[Edweird]

109. Care to elaborate?

[Lorien]

23. I agree. I don't text and I won't read incoming text messages

I use the phone for talking to people. I can hear their tone and other nuances of a conversation that texting doesn't provide. Plus ones eyes can be focused on the road or sidewalk or anywhere else while speaking on the phone. I can pick out the heavy texters among my students by their poor sentence structure and their overly casual manner in class. The professional world will be tough on them.

[kath]

30. "ones eyes can be focused on the road"

If you're talking about talking on the phone while driving, studies show that while your *eyes* may seem focused, your attention is not.

[Lorien]

83. My attention is always on the road, period. I'm 45 and I've never been in an accident

where I was the driver at fault. A hands free integrated cell phone in the car that keeps your hands at the 5 and 7 positions is safer than having passengers in your vehicle. If you really can't carry on a conversation while driving, then I hope that you NEVER have kids or pets in your vehicle.

[Confusious]

39. I find it useful to text to a friend I see almost everyday.

Any joke I think of I can text to him, or if we're going to get together, it's

what time?
7:15
Ok
running late +15
OK

Back and forth calling would be a waste I think. Sometimes it can be inconvenient for me to call him, like if he's in a meeting.

Of course, I never read messages while driving, nor do I talk on the phone either.

[Codeine]

63. The people with whom I exchange texts

all use full sentences, correct spelling, proper grammar, and appropriate punctuation. It's written communication, and we approach it as such.

[Codeine]

59. I love texting.

It allows me to communicate with people at my convenience, and they can answer at theirs. Multiple conversations can occur simultaneously, and it doesn't interrupt or intrude on people around me. It allows personal or sensitive conversations to be private as well. It allows me to shop or cook while exchanging information with people.

And I quite frankly cannot stand phone conversations. People simply don't think or speak fast enough to suit me, and they tend to ramble and fail to get to the point with sufficient alacrity. Texting discourages their drawn-out explanations, unnecessary clauses, tangents, irritating verbal tics, and small talk. Save that for face-to-face interaction.

[Alexander]

62. When your job consists of talking on the phone 8 hours a day,

often to irate, stupid, and/or rude people, talking on the phone in your free time is not something you look forward to.

[tabbycat31]

84. I text all the time

In fact more than I talk. I usually will send a text instead of make a call because I hate bad timing and interrupting people.

I'm to the point in a relationship (we both are clearly into each other but are too shy to ask the other out). I'm to the point where I have to call him and I'd rather just text him (he usually calls me back after I send him a text) because I just want to take him out to dinner.

[Hydra]

3. I don't agree with the idea that these people are "isolated"

It's actually worse- everyone is on the phone, everywhere. They're connecting, doing things...but they aren't actually paying attention to what they are doing when they are shopping, driving, etc.

The world is becoming wired to each other.

[MikeW]

52. I do

Go to a local coffee shop or out to eat and really spend some time watching people sometimes even parents.

Ive noticed esp. with groups of young people. There's no talking going on just dam texting.

If thats not isolating I dont know what is.

[Hydra]

53. Funny you say that

I was eating at a pizza parlor the other day and 4 girls were hanging out with mom at another table keeping watch. They had phones, but the were taking pictures of each other and playing truth or dare tame version. Mom was reading a book.

They had a definite "keep out" bubble, but no more than usual for a group at a restaurant.

The problem I have with it is what I said above- in becoming wired to our social groups, we seem to have lost our limits about where it's appropriate to talk to them.

[dickthegrouch]

74. They are isolated in their own little ghettos

They never read anything with a contrary opinion, or attack viciously when they are exposed to a different point of view.

I agree that text is useful as a stop gap measure. I'd rather use face-face, Phone, IM (Chat) or e-mail in that order for most things.

My work requires me to have three different chat options open and phone and e-mail - it can be incredibly intrusive and very counter-productive watching other people's inanities flowing by. I hate it, but it's part of the job :(

But most of it is not communication.

[Melissa G]

4. FWIW I agree mostly with the thesis about Facebook, Twitter and cell phones, but I reckon DU gets a

Pass"...:rofl:Yeah, I think that too, But my family would probably not agree. :rofl:

[DragonSlave]

85. The real cause is overworking - we don't have time for friends

Too many people - especially academics on a 80-hour work week under "publish or perish" - work too many long hours, not just at their jobs but doing things for their kids, commuting, cleaning, making food, etc. It gives very little free time so the time we do have we want instant gratification. That's a recipe for anomie.

[Odin2005]

5. *YAWN* Old Farts complaining about "Kids These Days". So predictable.

I bet they said the same thing about phones 100 years ago.

[Plucketeer]

7. Not so quick

It's not just a fad of kids. And the distraction factor is REAL and consequential. There's a difference between a bobby-sockser on a party line, and a mom killing someone with her SUV.



GOP JOBS PLAN

[yodermon]

10. "bobby-sockser on a party line"

wonder how many have no idea what that means :)

[boppers]

17. I caught it, and I'm 38.

Of course, party lines went the vinyl, and, well, bobby socks.

However, I like to study recent history.

[kentauros]

45. I was shocked to see a cyclist using a hand signal

for a right turn the other day. Shocked that he used a signal at all, but still wondering how many drivers have ever seen a hand signal, much less knowing what it means, other than the middle-finger kind ;)

[BuelahWitch]

72. It's something like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKhR8QtQ4do

[boppers]

21. Odin: Something you may not get....

You know how NT's are freaked out when they talk to somebody who isn't constantly reading their face (or whatever) for signals?

They also get freaked out by communication systems which eliminate those signals.

If they cannot communicate with those signals, they seem to think parts of the message are lost, because they put *so* much emphasis on that kind of communication.

[Odin2005]

31. then why do so many neurotypicals talk on the phone so much?

:-):rofl: :P

[boppers]

46. Listen to their phones.

They repeat.

A LOT.

[Initech]

24. I cant wait until these people go full-on Gran Torino mode.

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

:popcorn:

[StarsInHerHair]

42. I have a book "Sumerian Firsts" or some such & guess what they said back

then? yup, kids, these days.......they're losing the 'old ways'.:7 but the daughter-in-law was viewed like the mother-in-law, way back 3000 + years ago.

[Codeine]

65. I amuse myself by reading those sorts of posts

in Grandpa Simpson's voice.

"The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones..."

http://www.thatjobguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/grandpa+simpson1.jpg

[Edweird]

70. ROFL

:rofl:

[sofa king]

87. Heh. I love the kids today.

I come from an entire generation of children who spent hours and hours every day reading nothing more than, "Call Now!" on the TV screen during commercial breaks. Most of what they thought they knew came one-way through that fuzzy screen, and it was all bullshit. I have a relative who has never read a book. Not one. She doesn't even text. She's part of this anonymous thundering herd that is so easily led about by television news.

You kids today barely know those people because the effort of reading and writing pretty much keeps them out of the (by comparison) literate circles in which you travel.

Sure, sometimes your grammar sucks and you waste time typing out conversations that could be completed in seconds by a voice call, and more than one of you will be lost to us by texting and driving.

But you can read! And you do it all the time! Reading is the first step to thinking, and most of you have already done more of that than my functionally illiterate relative ever will. You kids are going to be so great.

I'll be happy to hand the keys off to you folks. There are probably a dozen future Senators and Presidents reading Democratic Underground right now, before they step out to melt their brains with Gibsonesque amphetamines, caffeinated malt liquor, and indiscriminate sex on a Sunday night.

[Odin2005]

90. If the cycles of history are anything to go by us Millennials will be very ambitious leaders.

Mich like the generation born between 1901 and 1924 that was in charge from the late 50s until the 80s that got us to the moon and started the war on poverty.

[sofa king]

93. Also a very well-read generation.

One of the things that amazes me about the 20th Century is that sometime in the 1930s there were at least a dozen world-changing geniuses all wandering around at the same time, writing letters to one another.

Statistically, in 2030 there should be six times that many geniuses of the same caliber, changing the world, every one of them with the ability to access information hundreds of times faster and in volumes that would drop the jaw of an Einstein. There will be 150 million people who test in the 98th percentile. That's going to be one heck of an exciting time to live in.

[Odin2005]

94. And they didn't have the Internet in 1930.

Today you can text message someone on the other side of the world on Facebook. Think about that.

[MessiahRp]

6. I'm less a believer in the idea that social media disconnects people though online video gaming may.

I think social networking connects more people that wouldn't necessarily talk otherwise.

However you can make a very strong, valid argument against online video gaming and that's the industry's goal.

Whereas kids used to hang out with each other at their houses and game together (forcing some sort of social interaction and personal connection with friends) now game makers make the games multiplayer where only online play is available for more than one player. Meaning two people can't sit together anymore to play most games and thus people play online against people they don't know (which can be dangerous of course, stranger factor) and it takes the personal connections out of it. Everyone can sit at home, isolated in their room and many, many times they play these games without conversing with their online opponents.

It takes the human factor out of the loop a bit. It's all a gambit for one thing. To sell more consoles and games.

In order to play with anyone else, someone else must own the game, console and the subscription to PSN or XBL. The two player experience now costs double what it used it. Games with a lot of multiplayer slots, triple, quadruple and beyond.

It's financially profitable to isolate kids and that's what's happening now.

Rp

[DragonSlave]

86. I agree - kids are the victim of a lot of negative consumerism

I also think the calvinist swing in sex mores, including abstinence only education, comes from the fact that sex isn't consumerist enough.

[elias49]

8. I'm in complete agreement. Worse yet, the dog has slipped its collar.

[bhikkhu]

9. There are pros and cons, and certainly room for abuse

I don't disagree that electronic media are leading to much more general isolation these days than was normal before - the iconic image of a room full of people oblivious to each other, diddling with their ipods, cell phone, gameboys, etc. But on the other hand isolation is very real for many who work long hours or are buried in study and obligations, whose family lives out of easy travel distance, who for whatever reason don't have a ready circle of friends, or people who are bound to their house by disability or giving care to others. In a very real way electronic social networking allows many people to stay connected and to feel connected to society, which is vastly important.

In my case I use facebook to keep up with my extended family. all of whom live elsewhere. It gives a very real feeling of keeping loved ones close in mind, and is very much nicer than a weekly or monthly phone call, or a yearly visit.

[slay]

11. I kinda agree

and think both are a bit creepy. i don't do twitter but i do have a facebook page - not in my real name - rarely use it unless to favorite the Bring Back Keith Page or to sign up for local rallies. i guess to each his/her own but it does seem to show a certain level of social disconnect with real live face to face people.

[Lorien]

26. I don't do Twitter either, but I've gotten more good than bad from Facebook.

I've reconnected with many old friends, classmates and former colleagues, plus made quite a few new friendships with people that I now get together with fairly regularly. I've worked from home for 16 years and was far more isolated before I really decided to put some effort into Facebook. The only really negative experience came when an ex-boyfriend-a guy who was once "the love of my life" but ended up screwing me over in far too many ways- found my on FB and "apologized" for all of his past behavior. Turned out that he wasn't really apologizing, he was having a bit of fun and playing head games with me just as he had done 23 years ago. That kind of blew away my fantasy of him becoming a mature adult over the past two decades, but other than that it's been great!

[LeighAnn]

44. Way more good than bad

I've found family I didn't know about, some of them in other countries, and I've made "friends" with people from all over the world that I never would have known of otherwise. When people post status updates in different languages, I run them through Google Translate and it gives me a fascinating view of the global mindset. It lets older relatives be a part of the lives of the younger generations in their families, and vice-versa. I think it's a great boon for people who might otherwise be lonely, contrary to the hypothesis.

[Lorien]

51. Their view of us can be pretty eye opening, can't it?

I've made quite a few international friends through Facebook (all "friends of friends" initially). Two in particular; a guy in his 30's from Australia and a woman in her 20's from Sweden, often send me messages asking me to explain confounding things about America. Why are Americans so hellbent on keeping a terrible healthcare system? Why aren't Americans marching in the streets over our drone attacks on innocent civilians in Pakistan? Why do Americans think that owning guns makes them safe? Why do Americans take so little vacation time? Why do Americans choose to spend so much of their free time watching TV? It all seems absurd enough to many of us here, but when one is answering their questions it seems even more outrageous.

[StarsInHerHair]

43. you know, I think they're trying to blunt the Tunisian cyber-roots.....

they don't like how pro-working class people are using Twitter and other "social networking" tools to unite, like UKUncut, False Economy, etc are now doing. They're publicly targeting 'tax cheats' in the U.K. and organizing thru Twitter etc. Don't fall for their bs

[slay]

73. Oh I was just talking about Americans using it to talk about crap like "Don't U luv my new haircut?"

i am 100% for using Facebook and Twitter to organize - as i stated in my original post one of the two reason I rarely use Facebook is to organize and go to local rallies for causes I support like Legalizing Gay Marriage - which is why i joined facebook to begin with.

But anywho - you make a good point that in places like Tunisia right now they can be valuable organizing tools - and not just for talking about Justin Beber's hair. Sigh..

[Dover]

14. It's like fast food. It's convenient, fast, has little substance and is not filling as regards

real, substantive connection. Many can chat online for hours and yet will feel more isolated at the end of the day. It's dehumanizing and not even connected to a real name/identity which may make
it easy to lose an empathetic connection to other's humanity. There's a lot of verbal abuse that
has become acceptable in all forms of the media.
There is no substitute for real connection, touch and doing real activities together.
It's a qualitative issue and probably a physiological and emotional necessity. And I've wondered if it contributes to problems such as attention deficit disorder. Even for those who are, for whatever reason, isolated, it might also be such an easy quick fix that it actually discourages efforts to get out and connect in the flesh.

This genie is already out of the bottle so wishing it would go away seems senseless. However
it is imperative to honestly examine how it is affecting our life so we can then make adjustments to keep a healthy balance.

[SoapBox]

16. Facebook and Twitter...Never done it...Never will...

...what a HUGE waste of time.

Get a job...get a life...turn OFF and put away
that stupid phone (really...turn that damned thing OFF).

Try talking to someone face to face.

[boppers]

19. Why talk to someone face to face?

What's the point?

It's not like the words are going to be different.

Hint: Think aspies, and a huge surge in different communication styles.

[Odin2005]

32. I bet you want us youngins to get off your lawn, too?

:rofl:

[Codeine]

67. Says the man posting to an internet message board.

:rofl:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. Funny...When I see colleagues that I connect with on Facebook

on gigs, I feel like I know them better as a result.

[mikeburetta]

20. academics complaining about technology

is kina like tomothy o leary sayin nope i dont have a drug problem

[Safetykitten]

22. They don't have the best record on seeing technology trends.

[boppers]

25. Some do, some don't.

All of the internet is the result of academic work. It wasn't built by some guy in his garage, there's literally millions of years of human research condensed into one product.

[boppers]

27. More "Bowling Alone". Again.

Every few years, there's some new research about how some academic or social critic (yes, I separate them) think that society is failing, or losing out, because prior methods and systems of social structure are being replaced.

Remember when "we stopped talking at the town square" because newspapers replaced the town bulletin? I'm guessing you don't, because it happened a good 300 years ago.

Those who were personally invested in older systems feel a loss when systems change. They write books about the change, get a flash in the pan, and a few decades (once upon a time, now years) later, there's a new complaint.

[Trajan]

29. I think some of this is pure poppycock ...

I have re-connected to people I have not seen in decades .... People whom I love, and whom, because I DID find them on FB, I was able to visit FACE TO FACE and enjoy their company once more - Something that would have never happened if not for FB ...

Also: I get to communicate with my children every day .... even though they are 2000 miles away .... (I love telling them to SLOW DOWN when you drive, and be careful for idiots, and watch out for icy roads - Even if they arent there to answer the phone, they get the messages anyways .... )

While it seems to reduce face to face time, I think it actually expanded it in my case ... and I am sure I am not alone ...

[Prometheus Bound]

34. I'm not sure that's the kind of social media interaction Turkle is referring to.

What you describe is hardly pathological.

[Historic NY]

33. I don't do facebook its just way too much info to put out there to be used...

its just easier not to have to. Without all those semi-connected sites people still manage to find me & sometimes I'm amazed. I do use Twitter with a different name and its only from the coumputer mostly news stories. I guess people identify with some of my comments connected to a story because I've been developing a following of people I don't know.

I alway get whats your facebook page I tell them on on a government computer & we don't do that...usually works.

[Smashcut]

35. Facebook is overall a social evil.

I have been saying this to friends (real friends, in real life) for some time. It replaces actual human contact with the illusion of contact, and stunts new relationships before they have a chance to form. It replaces real information and the incentive to become familiar on a one-to-one level with tidbits of disjointed information that say little about the person who offered them. On top of that, the whole concept of eliminating privacy on an interpersonal level (which Zuckerberg has unabashedly stated as his goal) is repugnant, and it is only encouraging people to exploit themselves in order to gain online "popularity."

Not to mention that the little shit is making billions selling people's personal info to the highest corporate bidder.

It is a social harm, pure and simple. I hope the fad wears off and people move past the voyeuristic/exhibitionistic addiction and reclaim their privacy and their real social lives.

[Prometheus Bound]

36. +1

[Evasporque]

48. All internet social networks eventually fall prey to porn and marketeers

And dissolve into a realm of undesirable trolls, griefers, lurkers and stalkers.

[Joanne98]

49. The tee vee does the same thing.

[rug]

50. It doesn't simply isolate people from reality, it distorts reality.

[jkappy]

78. It's post-reality!

[bemildred]

54. "We're an empire now, and we make our own reality" ... nt

[treestar]

55. It keeps me in touch with people I would not otherwise have

kept in touch with, so I disagree.

Relatives and friends who live far away - I'm much more aware of them than before. I might not have called them regularly. The put what they are doing on FB and now I know.

[Peace Patriot]

57. Look, language is a form of insanity. Mathematics is certainly a form of insanity.

Sending men to the moon is a form of insanity. Getting in a boat and sailing off to where there are known to be dragons is a form of insanity. Reading a novel is a form of insanity. Spending your entire day in a library looking for one fact, one clue, some article, photograph or footnote somewhere that will unlock a mystery that you are interested in, for no good reason, just curiosity, is a form of insanity. Reciting "Beowulf" is a form of insanity. Driving a car, whereby, in an instant, with the slightest mistake by you or someone else, you could be dead, is a form of insanity. Talking, when 99% of what you say has nothing to do with your survival, is a form of insanity. Rock 'n' Roll is one of the best and most inexplicable forms of insanity, live or by spinning a plastic disc under a needle on a machine powered by a distant dam.

Human beings are insane. That is our evolutionary advantage.

Everything we do, besides searching for food, eating, copulating and sleeping is insane.

Why did we ever weave baskets? What waste of time! Why did we ever spend the entire night telling each other spooky tales of monsters, gods and fate? Why did we ever put a seed into the dirt? Why did we have any expectation that that was a useful act? Why do we say, "Hello! How are you?" Why do we teach nonsense songs to children? What utter insanity was it that prompted human beings to paint the walls of caves with elegant figures of animals and hunts?

Tweeting is just another form of painting the cave walls. It's fun to be connected, and who knows what successful hunts it might result in, where it will lead us, what we might learn, who we might meet, what comfort we might receive, what comfort we might distribute, what we might recover from the past or project into the future, how it will solve the next problem, or what we're going to do about landfills to toss all our outmoded cell phones into.

It's more personal than video games or TV as to connectedness. It's less personal than a hug, but so is talking on the telephone, and if your buddy is in China or Africa, or all the way across town, it's the only way to be personal. What is the use of being personal with distant parties? Does it get you food, sex or sleep? Almost all human communication is insane. We don't know why we do it but somehow we are driven to, as we are driven to do lots of thing that are not apparently useful, that even seem quite insane, but that please us because of their unknowns. What is so-and-so doing? What is so-and-so going to Tweet us about? What's new with you? Hey, there's a hunt on tomorrow, let's get together tonight and paint the animals on the walls!

The only thing I worry about is speed. Things going too fast and our brains and our wisdom not being able to catch up. I worry about those landfills--and now some other people know it.

[bemildred]

66. Yep, we are way too successful for our own good. nt

[plumbob]

58. kick nt

[Odin2005]

68. I am loving all the geezers in this thread pouring scorn on FB!

:rofl:

[Carni]

79. The old fuddy-duddyism is a bit much!

I am 46 and don't text (not because I object to it, because my phone sucks and I am a clod)

I use facebook, twitter- Email (constantly)

Sorry folks I HATE talking on the phone, hate hate hate it! (always have)

If I had a nickle for every time I have probably offended someone because they called at a bad time and I cut them off I would be very wealthy. People with busy schedules (or kids or BOTH) can probably relate. Just because someone has their talkers on and is ready to yak at me over the phone doesn't mean they picked a good time and I am waiting with baited breath to hear them ramble on.

Electronic communication of all kinds is perfect--I open and enjoy my messages at my leisure and I put thought and time into my responses.

And Kids of DU...you are WELCOME to cut across my lawn! lol

[Edweird]

92. You may want to upgrade your phone to be able to text.

It allows immediate and efficient communication. If it is a 'bad time' the message is right there for you to respond to at your convenience. I use it much more than email.

[Carni]

110. Yeah, I plan on it

Just haven't felt like spending the extra $$

[Smashcut]

96. I'm 29.

Does that make me a geezer?

Perhaps if you're in your teens, but then I take your perspective with a grain of salt (as I'm sure people twice my age do mine).

[Odin2005]

97. No, I'm 25 and I rarely use a cell phone. It's just the bashing that annoys me.

Some of the posts here are basically insinuating that texting is destroying minds and society. It's bullshit.

[Skittles]

100. I don't care about people texting any more than I care about what religious drivel they believe

but F*** I am sick of seeing twitter shit when trying to watch a news segment

[LanternWaste]

103. Almost as good as the...

Almost as good as the righteous rage getting poured out by the bucketload by the younguns...

[MellowDem]

75. Yeah, DU gets a pass, heh...

I think all these academics complaining about technology don't have much logic behind their complaints. How many times has it happened before that the older generation bemoans what technology or new ideas are doing. They complain it is changing things. Well, it is, but change isn't necessarily bad, though that is how it is usually looked at.

I'm able to talk to my family a lot more than I would have been able to before things like skype and facebook, not to mention keep up with old friends.

Complaints about twittering or whatever at a funeral is ridiculous. Yeah it's rude, but it's not the technology's fault, and there have always been rude people at funerals, whether it's gossiping or dozing off or whatever. The technology isn't changing that.

There is little to no logic behind these arguments, just a lot of "concern" trolling.

[crim son]

80. A little texting isn't a bad thing.

What I don't get is my son, for example, texting back and forth with the same person for half an hour... then it strikes me as avoidance of an honest interaction with another human being. But I'm oooooold and old fashioned.

[reggie the dog]

82. so academics say i should pay long distance to stay in contact

with my friends in the USA??? why?????? it is cheaper to chat on facebook with instant messages. hell i stay in contact with my friends MORE since facebook has come about.

[saras]

88. ERROR: Posting error * Subject field must not be blank

"With email, I can dispense with all the pleasantries, like "Hi, how are you?" and then having to wait for the other person to give the obligatory "Fine, thanks!" when we both know that I neither care how he is doing nor would he tell me differently if he wasn't fine."

Unless I have to pay a bill, I just don't bother talking to people whom I have no more of a relationship with than this. If I don't care how they are doing, why talk to them?

I just have to profoundly wonder about whether someone who would/can either seduce or be seduced through text, of any sort, is even the same SPECIES that I am...

"But most of it is not communication."
Key point. Tangents, asides, emotional tone - those are communication. The exchange of raw information is only communication is a computer-science context.

"What's the point? It's not like the words are going to be different."
Sure they are - that's the point.

"Hint: Think aspies, and a huge surge in different communication styles."
I'm aspie myself, and it has hugely improved my life to learn how to read others' emotional communication - like when I was younger it made the difference between crappy adolescent sex - or no sex - and deep, rewarding relationships. Reducing the quality of my communication to the level possible through social media is just not useful to me. Now when I used to do computer support, I wished I could text THOSE people and reserve phone conversations, let alone face-to-face, for actual human interaction, but that generally wasn't allowed. "No, I will NOT engage your tantrum re the fact that you're unwilling to learn how to use your software. It wasn't MY choice to make computers complicated, and it doesn't bother me. Just give me the information I asked for and I will fix the damned problem."

I find it interesting how, while a few pro-social-media comments are well thought out and cogent, many more of them are dismissive, irrelevant attacks (i.e. all the critics are old, academics are fuddy-duddies, etc), AND really defensive. But the majority of anti-social-media comments are more personal - it doesn't work for ME. It doesn't do what I want communication to do.

At the risk of starting a real shitstorm, I'll ask - anyone else here write actual letters? You know, hand-written, with little notes in the margin, had-drawn pictures, maybe even stickers, colored felt pens, or collage?

[Edweird]

91. "...the "real world" that many social media critics hark back to never really existed.

Before everyone traveled on the bus or train with their heads buried in an iPad or a smart phone, they usually just traveled in silence. "We did not see people spontaneously talking to strangers. They were just keeping to themselves," Kist said."

Thanks to 'social media' (MySpace) I have met people and formed relationships - in real life - that I likely never would have otherwise. I see no 'backlash'. Basically, I believe Sherry Turkle is full of shit.

[Odin2005]

95. +1,000,000 You got it exactly!

[ipaint]

101. I used to talk to people all the time. On the train, at the grocery store, when I take a walk. etc.

Not so much anymore, most folks have wires hanging out their ears and are furiously typing or talking to who knows who about personal stuff i really don't feel like hearing about. Eye contact and friendly greetings are a dying art.

I carried around a cell phone once (2 years) for personal use and a job use. Never again. It was like an umbilical cord connecting me to a safely vetted and controlled world of my own making. I found it stifling and distracting.

I'm 55 so i guess I am an old fogy but I do miss seeing and talking to people who aren't constantly "on call" with the wires and gadgets permanently attached to their bodies. Whatever.

[bigworld]

104. bigworld LIKES this

[Politicub]

105. I have something like 200 "friends" on FB

In real life, maybe 4-6. :)

And plus my DU fam!

[GodlessBiker]

107. I wonder if Professor Turkle wrote her book in the privacy of her own home or office.

And now seeks to communicate with people through this book which she wrote in her own private space.

Now, what does this sound like?

[yurbud]

108. I disagree. If you dissent, the online community gives you a sense of how broad that dissent is

the trick is translating it into physical world action and connections, which would be hard in any case.

Does the fact that you bitched on a board, signed an online petition, or faxed a letter to your congressman make you less likely to show up at a demonstration, or more likely to know that one is going on so you even have a choice of whether to go?