(Canadian) Harper government falls in historic Commons showdown

[Electric Monk]

Source: Globe And Mail

The second minority government of Stephen Harper has fallen.

Early Friday afternoon, 156 opposition MPs – all of the Liberals, New Democrats and Bloquistes in the House of Commons – rose to support a motion of no-confidence.

It was also a motion that declared the government to be in contempt of Parliament for its refusal to share information that opposition members said they needed to properly assess legislation put before them.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-government-falls-in-historic-commons-showdown/article1956416/

---

much more at link

[arikara]

1. That means that the Harper government (tm) fell

and we will be having an election in May. I think Harper expected it to fall on the budget, not on a contempt charge. It is the first time in Canadian history this happened and will leave a stain on Harper no matter which way it goes. I hope we can finally get rid of the bastard once and for all.

[Dawson Leery]

3. That is great to hear.

Most were expecting the budget to fail, in turn causing the government to fall.

[glinda]

14. He will be hired here in the US by Faux.

[amb123]

2. Motion of No Confidence passes

156 Yea - 145 No

[SpiralHawk]

4. Hooray for the human beings in the Great White North

as they triumph over the billionaire corporate know-nothing fail-freak so-called 'conservative' entities who seek to rule with greed and control for their eeeleete cronies.

[glinda]

15. Canadians need to watch where the American tendrils go to next and make sure they do not elect them.

[mckara]

5. Excuse My French, But Harper is a Douche Bag, Anyway!

[wryter2000]

6. Oh, Canada

I so wish some of your good sense would drift south of the border. :applause:

[glinda]

16. I so wish that the upper tier States would offer themselves to Canada.

[greiner3]

19. If the US forces become any more tenuous;

The premise of the movie 'The Mouse That Roared' might come true: Canada could invade and take over some of its former territory.

[greiner3]

20. If US forces become any more tenuous;

The premise of the movies 'The Mouse That Roared' and 'Canadian Bacon' might come true: Canada could invade and take over some of its former territory.

[glinda]

23. What part was Canadian Territory? I do not know...

[CHIMO]

24. Have

A read of "The Fight for Canada".

[glinda]

32. Just looked it up. Is it good? May buy it. So what part of the US are you talking about though.

I have a couple very close Canadian friends. Maybe I should read this book.

[CHIMO]

33. Most

Of the northern part of the US.

If you want history then read it. If you are depressed with power politics don't read it.

[glinda]

40. Love history. Am depressed often so it doesn't matter at this point. Knowledge is power. Or not.

[Capt. America]

7. How, if any, will this affect the Canadian general placed in charge of NATO forces in Libya?

[Chevy]

9. No effect

All parties supported the action in Libya. However the Liberals and NDP may have over played their hands the Canadian public really had no issue with the budget according to polls and really haven't taken a liking to the Liberal leader either, as far as the accusations against the Conservatives it seems to be playing as inside Ottawa case and not grabbing the public attention the Conservatives were polling at 43% favorability when election was called which is in a majority government territory . Another problem for Liberal and NDP is they have said they would work with the BQ(separatist party of Quebec)to form a coalition Canadians don't like that idea to much. They may have just handed Harper his majority that he has been itching for.

[glinda]

17. Yes. I have heard that concern.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arikara]

27. I don't believe he'll ever get a majority

at worst (for us) he'll wind up with another minority. Everyone has the strategic voting down pat after a few of these elections and maybe just maybe Iggy will do something on the campaign trail to make us love him.

[CHIMO]

34. Hope Not

But for the record Quebers are also Canadians.

But just the facts, mam.

Liberals, NDP, Bloc sign deal on proposed coalition
The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html

[Boojatta]

45. Quebeckers are Canadians, but not all Quebeckers support the Bloc.

For example, I suspect that some Quebeckers ...

• want to remain Canadians
  
• prefer that under no circumstances will they have to move out of Quebec in order to remain Canadians
  
• and don't support the Bloc
  

[iverglas]

35. gee, I'll just have to ask again

Why are you spouting Conservative Party talking points?

Maybe whoever objects to the question would like to educate themselves about Canadian politics, and the very recent Canadian history I cited.

The Bloc Québécois was not a member of the coalition. NOT. No matter now many commercials the Conservatives run on teevee telling us it was.

It committed to supporting the agenda of the proposed Liberal Party / New Democratic Party coalition in the House, on terms.

Framing this as "work with the BQ(separatist party of Quebec)to form a coalition" and claiming "Canadians don't like that idea to much" -- very odd, very odd.

That IS a Conservative Party talking point, framed as the Conservative Party frames it.

[iverglas]

10. a column that might be of interest

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/as-politicians-hit-hustings-canadas-libya-mission-flies-under-the-radar/article1955970/

[iverglas]

8. it's a first in the history of the Commonwealth

Now we have to hope (and work) very hard to make sure we don't get a Harper MAJORITY, which is an entirely possible outcome.

And hope the opposition has the guts to go to the GG and seek to form a government if Harper gets another plurality in the House (as I said on these very pages they should have done the last time!!). Liberals with ad hoc NDP/Bloc support, Liberal/NDP coalition, I don't care.

I have to say I did like one Conservative comment quoted in the Globe article:

Government Whip Gordon O’Connor was even more blunt in his assessment of the opposition. “When, during the election, a matter of ethics comes up, I would expect Liberal candidates to put bags on their heads.”

:evilgrin:

[LeftishBrit]

11. Let's hope it sets a trend, which will soon be followed by the UK!

[socialshockwave]

12. Harper's support surged after the budget fiasco.

So he may end up getting a majority government. Which would be a VERY bad thing.

[CHIMO]

22. ???

What have you been smoking?

Ekos just had the Cons out of favour. 65% aren't with them.

Increase in those who think the Cons are going in the wrong direction.

[iverglas]

25. time to talk up coalition ;)

html fixed


Allo allo!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/03/25/pol-poll.html

Tory lead suggests another minority: EKOS
CBC News
Posted: Mar 25, 2011 5:21 PM ET
Last Updated: Mar 25, 2011 6:14 PM ET

The Liberal Party that pushed the government to defeat Friday trails the Conservatives by seven points as it heads into an election, according to a new EKOS poll.

... The final survey by the polling company before the election call suggests the Conservatives have the support of 35.3 per cent of voters and the Liberals 28.1 per cent. The poll suggests the NDP have 14.2 per cent support, the Green Party 10.6 per cent and the Bloc Quebecois 9.7 per cent.

Voters were asked to indicate what party they would vote for if an election were held the day after they were surveyed.

The party standings in the survey are similar to what they were the last time Canadians went to the ballot box in 2008, according to a report accompanying the poll results.

Not that I'm not going to be nervous up until the votes are counted. (You know, an hour after the polls close. ;) )


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/poll-shows-increasing-voter-skepticism-about-harper-government/article1955978/

Poll shows increasing voter skepticism about Harper government
JOHN IBBITSON
OTTAWA— From Friday's Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Mar. 24, 2011 10:00PM EDT
Last updated Friday, Mar. 25, 2011 3:06PM EDT

With the start of an election campaign only a day or two away, a new poll reveals that many people trust Stephen Harper less than they did a year ago.

Whether that concern trumps voter confidence in how the Conservatives are handling economic challenges could determine the outcome of the election.

A poll conducted for The Globe and Mail and CTV by Nanos Research shows that 41 per cent of Canadians trust the Conservative government less than they did a year ago. Only 6 per cent trust it more. Forty-eight per cent feel about the same, and 5 per cent just don’t know.

“This speaks to the potential vulnerability of the Harper government,” said pollster Nik Nanos. “It speaks to why the opposition parties are so hot to attack the government on trust and ethics.”

Then there's the fact that they're really just a pack of junkyard dogs, and hopefully they'll keep behaving like that. Let's just hope Canadians haven't become innured to such crap from watching too much US teevee ...

[CHIMO]

26. That's The Right's

Canard. I prefer strategic voting. Then let Harper be consumed by his friends.

[iverglas]

36. you misunderstand me?

There has to be a plan for a minority situation.

I don't think it's really a credible plan just to ignore that elephant.

But hey, maybe I just expect too much, of both the parties and the public.

If Harper got another plurality of seats, what would happen?

Won't somebody have to answer that question at some point during the campaign?

I think the onus will fall on us. The question will be put to Jack: will we support Ignatieff if he seeks to form a government, even if Harper has the most seats?

I don't know how much dancing around that we'd be able to do.


edit -- I get it, I think.

No, I don't mean an electoral coalition, I'll stick with strategic voting too. I meant for post-election.

Another reason to not ignore the elephant is that otherwise, I fear a 1988 situation, when the Liberals scared our voters into voting for them. At least in my local 100% safe Liberal seat, they managed to. ;) We will support a Liberal bid to govern after the election even against a Conservative plurality -- but you still want to elect us (if only to keep 'em honest).

[CHIMO]

37. So If

Harper is asked the question he will say he will never join a coalition. Of course it means nothing. Just look at fixed elections.

If Iggy says he will work with all elected reps to run government then Harper will use the Bloc as the next government.

The best way to confront this is to state that we will work within the rules and there does not have to be any coalition, if other parties wish to support our proposals so be it. Our proposals will reflect the realities of who the people elect. If parliament does not support that then parliament can choose what to do.

That is how I would handle it.

Jack has alredy answered that question on Power & Politics today.

[iverglas]

44. I was going overboard ;)

Yes, I prefer minority government to coalition. I got a bit hyperbolic. ;)

Your answer still doesn't address the real issue, though ... if Harper gets a plurality, will Ignatieff seek to form a government and will we support that bid? Without an actual coalition, I can't see the GG going for it, so we'd be back to having a Harper Government, bringing it down, going to the GG ... and that's really just not something people want to contemplate.

Power and Politics. I can't stomach Evan Solomon. Oh well, the election will be a diversion from earthquakes and tsunamis and nuclear catastrophes.

[CHIMO]

64. Well

The way I see it Harper can block everything in the senate. So I would expect that the best way to get around this would be to push Harper to the Bloc

If the Libs and the NDP outnumber the Cons they will be able to have their way in parliament and the committees.

What Iggy would do is another thing, since he tried to scuttle the last Lib/NDP coalition. For the time being Iggy has said no.

I would support it. But another thing on the near horizon is Fox North, which comes on stream next month.

For the time being I see frustration as the best method against the cons.

Jack pretty much said he has supported parties in the past when they agreed with his objectives and he would do so in the future.

[DeSwiss]

13. K&R

[totodeinhere]

18. Another minority government will probably come out of the upcoming election.

The only question is who will lead it.

[vaberella]

28. Canadian Government Falls, Election Set for May

Source: Reuters

The opposition toppled Canada's Conservative government on Friday, accusing it of sleaze and mismanagement, and set the scene for a May election that polls indicate the Conservatives will win.

Opposition legislators threw papers in the air in glee after voting 156-145 in the House of Commons to defeat the minority government, which they also say has mismanaged the economy and is overly secretive.

-snip
This week, a parliamentary committee slapped the government with the first contempt ruling in Canada's history, saying the Conservatives had hidden the full costs of a spending program.

"There are only two alternatives here -- more of this disrespect for democracy, more of this contempt for the Canadian people, or a compassionate, responsible Liberal government," said Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff, an academic and broadcaster who has headed the party since 2008.

Read more: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20110325/tpl-uk-canada-politics-20b2d2f.html

---

Hopefully we can do that with Congress in 2012.

[Cleita]

29. Yay for the Canadians. I hope they can make it stick. n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

30. So the Conservative Government will be replaced by a Conservative Government?

If so, a shallow victory.

[vaberella]

31. Canadian Government Falls, Election Set for May

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[Imajika]

38. Why is everyone cheering this?

From everything I have seen this may well result in a Harper majority government.

What is the upside here?

[CHIMO]

39. If

Harper is weakened his, dictatorially style will cause his supporters to revert into at least two separate groups. He already has many senior reform people not running in this election.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

42. People are fed up with Harper

[totodeinhere]

43. This poll shows the Conservative Party with a 35-28 lead over the Liberals

as of yesterday. People may be fed up with Harper but they are not in love with any of the other parties either. I think that the most likely scenario is another Harper led minority government. The second most likely scenario is a Harper majority government.

[Arrowhead2k1]

46. Wait, 35% is still not enough for a majority I think. What did the NDP get?

If the Liberals and NDP get a majority of the seats, they might just form a coalition government. Which means, bye bye Harpy.

[totodeinhere]

47. The Liberals' Party's leader, Mr. Ignatieff, just this morning ruled out the

possibility of a coalition government.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-rules-out-coalition/article1958015/

As I said, the most likely outcome is another Conservative led minority government.

[Arrowhead2k1]

65. I don't understand why Canadians are so against coalition governments that the idea

has become such a wedge issue. Do they prefer to be ruled by a minority that holds the rest of the elected parliament in contempt?

[CHIMO]

66. My

Take on it is that Harper has a solid backing of the religious right, and other extremists. The Liberals are afraid that if they indicated they would be favourable to a merger the few lost votes would go to the Cons giving them a majority.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

41. Perfect!

[Purveyor]

48. Canada Goes To Polls May 2, House Dissolved

Source: IANS

2011-03-26 21:30:00

Ottawa, March 26 (IANS) Canadians will go to the polls May 2 to elect a new government, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced Saturday, a day after his minority government was toppled by the combined opposition in a no-trust motion over contempt of parliament.

The prime minister made the announcement after he met Governor General David Johnston and sought dissolution of parliament.

After the mandatory six-week campaign period, Canadians will elect a new parliament May 2.

'Given the disappointing events of yesterday I have met his excellency the Governor General who has agreed that parliament should be dissolved,' the prime minister said.

Read more: http://www.sify.com/news/canada-goes-to-polls-may-2-house-dissolved-news-international-ld0v4fhjada.html

[NightWatcher]

49. "elect a new government" I like the sound of that

[RKP5637]

50. Music to the ears. n/t

[Drale]

51. Wait so does that mean

Canada doesn't have a government right now? Or does the current elected people stay in power until the election?

[JBoy]

55. There's still a "caretaker" government run by Harper with limited powers

With parliament dissolved, he has no way of introducing any legislation. The extent of his caretaker powers is apparently "secret", and is the subject of some controversy.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/960291--harper-s-power-to-shrink

Stephen Harper will become the “caretaker” prime minister of Canada as soon as Parliament is dissolved by an election call, but the precise, new limits on his powers are top secret.

There are some obvious signs of Harper’s cut-down authority already: the government cancelled the public-service ads that normally roll out after the budget and PMO spokespersons have been saying it’s “unlikely” the Prime Minister will attend the royal wedding at the end of April.

Somewhere within Langevin Block in Ottawa, where Harper has been going to work each day, there is an actual handbook setting out the terms of a caretaker government, which some constitutional and public-policy experts are urging to be made public.

[DavidDvorkin]

52. The article mentions that the Conservatives are currently ahead in the polls

So this might not be a good thing.

[cstanleytech]

57. But whos doing the polling I would question before

trusting that kind of statement, after all would you take at face value an article that said "A recent poll has found that George Bush was far more popular than President Obama" at face value without questioning the source of the poll?

[iverglas]

60. then google it!

There are lots of polls. The fact is that the Conservative Party has a plurality of voting intentions in all polls at present. No one seriously questions these findings.

What matters is the breakdown of the seats in the House. And a slight shift in vote splits in a very few ridings could give the Conservatives a majority of seats (without achieving a majority of the popular vote, or even a majority of the vote in the seats it takes).

It's a very real possibility, it's a terrifying one, but it's there, and uninformed paranoia about the source of polling results won't change it.

[jwirr]

53. In some ways I envy their electoral system but if we had that we would

be voting for a new leader every 3 months. I am glad to see another peaceful change in leadership!

[riverbendviewgal]

54. Harper is a follower of Leo Strauss

That is why he is the first Prime Minister to be toppled for contempt of parliament. He has contempt for those who are not of the elite.

[brooklynite]

56. I wouldn't get my hopes up about the result...

Polling for Canadian parties has been relatively constant for past two years

[leahcim]

58. If the Libs and NDP would coordinate...

...they might pick up a few more seats. In the 90s it was the rightist vote that was split between the traditional Tories and the Reform Party. Now the right is united and the leftist vote is split.

Last election there was some unofficial attempts to massage things along those lines. People who wanted to vote NDP or Lib in some ridings would "trade" their vote with someone in another riding, to concentrate the vote to avoid a spoiler effect in favour of the Tories.

[iverglas]

59. Please

Please. The "leftist vote" is not split. The anti-Conservative Party vote, yes. But it is utterly ridiculous to refer to the Liberal Party, or the vast majority of Liberal Party voters, as "leftist".

I have no objection to talking support for a minority Liberal government, or even coalition.

But can we not perpetuate this pretense that the Liberal Party is "left"?

It may be slightly less right than the Democratic Party in the US. That does not make it left, at least by the standards of anywhere in the world outside the US. And it doesn't make Liberal Party supporters and activists left, anywhere outside Democratic Underground.

I am left. I am a social democrat, electorally. I campaign and vote (and have been a candidate) for the New Democratic Party. If I lived in a riding where the best hope of defeating a Conservative Party candidate were to vote Liberal, I would do it. Fortunately, I live in an NDP riding. ;) I've voted Liberal provincially because the NDP candidate could not hope to win that time around and the need to ensure a Conservative defeat was urgent, and many years ago I voted Progressive Conservative because the NDP candidate I'd worked for had no hope and I wanted Pierre Trudeau gone with a passion. Pierre Trudeau was not left.

Strategic voting, both by individuals at the polls and by parties in the House, is a fact of life here.

It doesn't mean that we on the left don't hold our noses and suppress our gag reflexes if we vote Liberal. And our votes don't make the Liberal Party "left".



(I have my Word trained to correct me when I type "stragetic". ;) )

[iverglas]

61. politicalcompass - Cdn parties 2008 - for ref

http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2008



"The Conservative Party's move further towards the Bush-Reagan mix of free market economics with social conservatism makes the somewhat mercurial Liberals look more moderate, despite their own rightward drift. An emphasis on environmental issues has helped the Liberals downplay deep differences within the party on other key issues. The Greens, more fiscally conservative than most of their sister parties, also harbour significant left-right differences within their ranks. Similarly Bloc Québécois is united in its core cause, but considerably divided in other policy areas. In provinces where the NDP has governed in recent years, social spending cutbacks and other nods towards neoliberalism place the party today closer to where the Liberals were two decades ago."


http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2005




for comparative purposes:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

[sarcasmo]

62. They told Murdoch and faux news no and are kicking out the Bush clone Harper.

Way to go Canadians.

[totodeinhere]

67. Not so fast. If current polls are any indication Harper may well return as PM. n/t

[iverglas]

68. Harper is not a Bush clone

Canada is not the United States. The world is not the United States.

Bush was congenitally stupid, for starters, and he was not in any sense the head of his government.

Harper is extremely intelligent, and was in every sense the head of his government. In fact, his government was little other than him, by the time it fell. His directing the public service to refer to it as "the Harper Government" (it's the Government of Canada) is just symbolic of the fact that he ran the show, him and nobody else.

Harper's economics are far right, and he tugs his forelock to the "social" right when necessary, but doesn't actually give a crap.

One thing they might have in common is their fake religiosity -- Harper got fundie Christianity when he got political ambition -- but Harper is smart enough to actually walk that walk by going to the Sunday gatherings. I guess our religious right is just a little more demanding of fake sincerity.

Bush, on the other hand, didn't actually give a crap about anything except where the next drink was coming from.

Harper is a genuine power-hungry politician, and is genuinely hungry to exercise that power to remake Canada in his image. What his ultimate goal might be, after emptying the hospitals and filling the prisons, I couldn't actuallly say, since the right-wing mind is a permanent mystery to me. Power for its own sake, to some extent, undoubtedly. And just the pure pleasure of being right by virtue of might, I guess.

It would really be nice, and probably quite beneficial, if people in the US would remove the prism through which they see the world -- all things as they are in the US -- and take a look at things in the rest of the world as they actually are, which often have little to do with how things are in the US.

[BlueIris]

63. Impressive. Bravo, Neighbor to the North. nt