Sources: Raiders Knew Osama Mission a One-Shot Deal (Most Complete Account So Far? "Went Awry")

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Sources: Raiders knew mission a one-shot deal

BY KIMBERLY DOZIER - AP INTELLIGENCE WRITER | POSTED : TUESDAY MAY 17, 2011 5:40:30 EDT
WASHINGTON — Those who planned the secret mission to get Osama bin Laden in Pakistan knew it was a one-shot deal, and it nearly went terribly wrong.

The U.S. deliberately hid the operation from Pakistan, and predicted that national outrage over the breach of Pakistani sovereignty would make it impossible to try again if the raid on bin Laden’s suspected redoubt came up dry.

Once the raiders reached their target, things started to go awry almost immediately, officials briefed on the operation said.

Adding exclusive new details to the account of the assault on bin Laden’s hideout, officials described just how the SEAL raiders loudly ditched a foundering helicopter right outside bin Laden’s door, ruining the plan for a surprise assault. That forced them to abandon plans to run a squeeze play on bin Laden — simultaneously entering the house stealthily from the roof and the ground floor.

Read more: http://www.navytimes.com/mobile/index.php?storyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navytimes.com%2Fnews%2F2011%2F05%2Fap-raiders-knew-mission-a-one-shot-deal-051711%2F%3Futm_source%3Dtwitterfeed%26utm_medium%3Dtwitter

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. It goes to show that bin Laden felt he was safe in the hold out.

Which is why they didn't have a Hollywood style confrontation with other gunmen. Though, all that is hindsight. Our Navy Seals couldn't have known that going in.

This was the most successful surprise attack since Pearl Harbor and WTC. Some people might cringe to hear those comparisons, but that's how the oldtime military men would have looked at it. Analyzed it coldly to learn from out mistakes.

You know, if bin Ladnen didn't expect the U.S. to cross borders, it makes me wonder why he was so certain?

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Not that successful - they overloaded the helicopters

Calculating the load 'to the ounce', and then finding the night is hotter than expected, thus causing a helicopter to crash, doesn't sound like good planning to me. They left no margin for an obvious variable which was outside their control.

[KathyVet]

5. Yes, that successful

Target killed; no US lives lost in the mission. 100% successful.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. Yet as the previous poster pointed out, damn fortunate.

From a perspective of achieving the goal, yes it was successful.
From the perspective of good planning however it wasn't because the copter faltered and that could have cost them the mission and their lives.

[KathyVet]

16. That's the reason for contingency planning

Which worked like a charm in this case.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. But the initial plan failed

and it was only through a combination of skill and luck that no U.S. personnel died, if the report about the load calculation is accurate.
Of course, all of the SEALs in that first group could have died and the mission still had a chance of succeeding. It's sorta like the old joke about the operation being successful but the patient died.

[KathyVet]

23. Really? The plan failed?

That's why all those SEALs died and Osama is still alive, right? Oh. Wait...

[Gormy Cuss]

24. So the initial plan was to crash a copter in bin Laden's courtyard?

Don't be silly. You already suggested that it was a contigent plan that succeeded, not the initial plan.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. They had a back up plan.

Another copter. And, I don't think the Japanese came and went without casualties, did they?

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. The helicopter crash put their lives at risk

and made it far harder to complete the mission - the other helicopter had to land, not let down the troops.

[KathyVet]

15. So it wasn't a success?

Osama wasn't killed and no US forces injured or killed? Do you know something I don't about this?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. I said 'not that successful'

Considering they lost an expensive helicopter through bad planning, which put the lives of the troops at greater risk, made the chance of any success less, and they didn't achieve the best possible outcome - capturing him alive, which was the preferred outcome - I don't think it can be called 'the most successful surprise attack since Pearl Harbor'. The alternative given - 'since the WTC' - might be true, but then, there haven't been that many since then.

And if I know anything about this that you don't, it seems to be the comment in the quoted piece - "things started to go awry almost immediately". This is not just my opinion.

[KathyVet]

21. The loss of the helo, is to be honest,

not that big a deal.

And things ALWAYS go "awry" in military operations.

The fact is the mission was to get Osama without loss of US life. They did both. 100% successful.

[Igel]

26. That just shows a lack of foresight.

Yes, the chopper was a big deal. It was new, innovative, top-secret technology. It was the first time the choppers had been used. It was the first time they'd actually been seen in public.

It's rather like producing a brand new fighter and then the first time out getting lost and landing it in Beijing. "Ah, the test flight was a great success!" may be true in some ways, but certainly it's not a good thing. How much of the technology has been pirated? How much of an advantage did the billions spent on design, development, and production actually gain us? One mission against an individual?

The mission had a number of different goals. Some were important and foregrounded. Some were backgrounded. Seeing only the foregrounded ones is to be blind to the fact that there were backgrounded, assumed goals; it's to think only tactically, not strategically. The loss of the chopper constitutes a very big lost opportunity. Was it worth it? Politically, for the next election, for one person, quite possibly.

Come to think of it, that pretty much sums up a lot of American thought: Short-sighted, short-term, "what does it get me now, screw next month and let's not even think about next year" thinking.

[sofa king]

28. I agree.

The fact that the mission went down at all means it jumped the 50% hump. About half of all planned special operations missions are canceled due to changing circumstances or are scrubbed en route before an engagement occurs.

Then, within that half that actually happen, a good percentage of them fail, sometimes disastrously. Still more are only partially successful, as in none of our guys die but the people we're looking for aren't there.

No plan goes exactly as planned. Few succeed entirely, because the plan always goes awry somewhere. Reacting to the unforeseen and still succeeding is the province of only the very best and most highly trained operators in the world. This mission was more successful than one could reasonably hope.

[WingDinger]

20. THEY DIDN'T, Obama did. He insisted on multiple redundancy.

[vanamonde]

13. Many here may not remember the attempt to rescue Iranian hostages

in 1980. There too, weather played an unpredicatable role, with much worse results. I imagine that planning an operation like this is an exercise in compromise, and if a preponderance of elements are 'go' then you go. They knew he was there, the night was moonless, the equipment was ready, and as the article stated, there was fear that the plan would be leaked. Although I am personally ambivalent about the extra-legal killing, looking at it from a purely military, tactical perspective, I think what they did was awe inspiring. I'm glad I'm not on Seal Team 6's shit list.

[formercia]

3. I think there's a lot more to this story than what we've been told.

So far, all I feel is someone trying to blow smoke up my ass.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. I value your haunches, er, hunches.

I have a weakness for bad puns. People should respect the fact that I've managed to resist for nine years.

[formercia]

17. My weakness too on both counts....lol

:hi:

[KoKo]

4. Odd that this report doesn't mention killing of bin Laden's son

says only bin Laden was transported to the navy ship to be buried at sea. Also, first I've seen that there were 18 children and 9 women there. Also, photo's of the compound don't show blown out walls and windows. Yet the article states that.

Anyone else find this report strange? More anonymous officials, of course...but different from other reports.


---------

"It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.

One of the waiting Chinooks flew in to pick up bin Laden’s body, the raiders from the broken aircraft and the weapons, documents and other materials seized at the site.

The helicopters flew back to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, and the body was flown to a waiting Navy ship for bin Laden’s burial at sea, ensuring no shrine would spring up around "

[Hissyspit]

25. Yes, first mention of 18 children and nine women.

[EFerrari]

27. Nic Robertson filmed at the house and showed that there was no sign

of a fire fight.

The report also doesn't mention the woman that was killed or her husband and his brother who were also killed, plus the one other guy in the guest house who did fire on the SEAL team.

[Blue_Tires]

6. Most military actions are historically one-shot deals sidestepping total disaster...

D-Day, anyone?

[razorman]

14. "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy" - Carl Von Clausewitz

[2banon]

7. interesting read..

Leak plausable story in attempt in laying unanswered questions to rest, which will never be confirmed nor denied..

[gratuitous]

11. "Predicted national outrage over the breach of Pakistani sovreignty"

Which, I guess, doesn't count anymore because of the "success" of the mission. Sort of the military equivalent of "Scoreboard, baby." Cheaters and rule-breakers everywhere should be proud. Those who believe in the Constitution and the American system? Not so much.

[Kolesar]

18. They brought back Osama's pistol--who gets to keep it?

Think of what that trophy would bring at an auction.

[alp227]

29. Osama bin Laden's guns found 'only after' US Navy Seals killed him

Source: The Guardian

The American soldiers who killed Osama bin Laden found his two guns only after he was dead, while they photographed his remains, according to a detailed new account of the al-Qaida leader's final moments.

The Associated Press revelation will add further fuel for critics who say US forces acted illegally in killing the unarmed Saudi fugitive. The Obama administration insists the shooting was lawful.

Meanwhile, US relations with Pakistan, already at their lowest point in a decade, have found a fresh point of friction following an exchange of fire between Nato and Pakistani forces along the Afghan border.

Two Pakistani soldiers were injured after opening fire on two Nato helicopters that crossed into Datta Khel, North Waziristan.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/17/osama-bin-laden-guns-found-after-killing

[Poll_Blind]

30. "Two Pakistani soldiers were injured after opening fire on two Nato helicopters..."

Hadn't heard about that before! Hrm...

PB

[dipsydoodle]

31. Is there actually any requirement

for a US administration to operate within the confines of the law ?

Yes or no ?

[boppers]

41. Yes, there is.

There should have been a grand jury to indict him. (There was)
There should have been an arrest warrant. (There was)
There should have been an extradition request. (There was)
There should have been an international warrant. (There was)
There should have been an opportunity for the suspect to turm themselves in (There was)
The suspect should have been provided legal counsel if caught alive (There was)
During a raid, the suspect could have complied and surrendered.

Want me to keep going?

[dipsydoodle]

42. There should have been an extradition request. (There was)

Oh - so they knew he was in Pakistan and in that knowledge they issued an extradition request to Pakistan. Got a link ?

[boppers]

43. The extradition request went to his last known location.

Are you suggesting that the US should have sent out 195 requests?

Oh, yeah, that's what an international arrest warrant was for.

[dipsydoodle]

45. Don't be ridiculous

The US hasn't even got an extradition agreement with France let alone many other countries.

If they'd had one with France then France may well have requested Kissenger's extradition by now.

[boppers]

46. agreement != request eom

[dipsydoodle]

47. Call it a draw.

:hi:

[Stuttgart77]

50. How ridiculous

http://tinyurl.com/64s6ved

[Enrique]

32. here's the AP story about the bin Laden raid

http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/89ae8247abe8493fae24405546e9a1aa/Article_2011-05-17-Bin%20Laden-Raid/id-d53db524b74a429c8488e02ee25198db

A long story, lots of details, but still all based on anonymous government officials, unfortunately.

Regarding the new invasion of Pakistan, when is this going to end? We got bin Laden but we're still invading Pakistan from time to time?

[cally]

33. The report indicates they thought he was reaching for a gun

The seals expected that he ran in to get a gun. I don't think the seals acted inappropriately here.

[cfsteak]

35. Or going for a IED

I imagine he had the knowledge to build one, surprised this possibility hasn't been mentioned in the coverage

[MidwestTransplant]

38. They were worried about a suicide vest.

[RamboLiberal]

40. +1

As three of the SEALs reached the top of the steps on the third floor, they saw bin Laden standing at the end of the hall. The Americans recognized him instantly, the officials said.

Bin Laden also saw them, dimly outlined in the dark house, and ducked into his room.

The three SEALs assumed he was going for a weapon, and one by one they rushed after him through the door, one official described.

Two women were in front of bin Laden — yelling and trying to protect him, two officials said. The first SEAL grabbed the two women and shoved them away, fearing they might be wearing suicide bomb vests, they said.

The SEAL behind him opened fire at bin Laden, putting one bullet in his chest, and one in his head.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/16/501364/main20063476.shtml#ixzz1Me442Utd

[damntexdem]

34. Better that than that OBL had found them before.

There were weapons in the room into which he fled -- then he was dead.

[MidwestTransplant]

36. Notice how Obama didn't asked who shot Bin Laden at their meeting.

That's very classy and respectful. I dare say another president may not have had the same composure.

[monmouth]

37. Justice Stevens said it was legal. What's the prob?....n/t

[montanto]

39. Here, let me see if I can squeeze out a tear for bin Laden.

Nope. Can't do it.

[DCBob]

44. as if..

[Keith Bee]

48. Poor bin Laden!

Eff off!

[buckrogers1965]

49. The rule of law is dead in America.

Hope we have better luck with the next government we get here.