Rebecca Zahau suicide likely tied to boy's injuries, officials say

[ejbr]

Source: L.A. Times

Rebecca Zahau, the girlfriend of pharmaceutical executive Jonah Shacknai who committed suicide at his Coronado mansion, was distraught over injuries his son suffered in her care and that is apparently why she decided to hang herself, authorities said Friday.

Zahau's nude body was found in the courtyard of the historic Spreckels mansion on Ocean Boulevard on the morning of July 13. Her hands and feet had been loosely tied, and a noose was around her neck and tied to a second-story balcony, officials said.

Although how she killed herself may seem unusual, it is not unprecedented and there is no evidence that there was foul play, San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore said at a Friday morning news conference.

Read more: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/rebecca-zahaus-suicide-likely-triggered-by-boys-injuries-authorities-say.html

---

Sad...

[hlthe2b]

1. Sad, indeed...

Assuming it was suicide, how tragic that no one could have anticipated that she might have felt responsible for the child's death and intervened to try to get her some help.

Tragedy compounded....sigh

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Why would someone bind their own hands and feet prior to committing suicide? n/t

[RC]

4. And hands behind their back, yet?

Neat trick.

[madokie]

7. Why do people commit suicide

[Kali]

8. To make sure they cant change their mind?

I know of a guy that tied his own hands and hung himself.

The reverse argumnt that people are using here would be "why would a murderer not untie the hands, as EVERYBODY would KNOW that was proof of foul play"

[msanthrope]

56. It stops you from struggling too much. In fact, if you look it up on the Internets,

as a means of suicide, it is recommended that you use a binding--makes it go quicker if you don't have enough of a drop.

It's not unusual. Prisoners do it all the time.

[LisaL]

59. Well she had plenty of a drop.

She was also gagged with a t-shirt. What is that recommended for?

[msanthrope]

61. She may not have known she had enough of a drop, the t-shirt prevents biting oneself or crying out.

I agree. It is a suspicious thing. But every move she supposedly made is something that someone who really wants to die by hanging would do...tough to determine how much hang you need, and gagging does prevent crying out--someone finding and stopping you.

The self-binding, gagging, is not uncommon. If there is no other forensic or circumstantial evidence, there's no reason to think it is not a suicide.

[NashVegas]

62. She Must Have Been a VERY Mentally Unstable Person To Do All This

Within one week of the accident that killed her boyfriend's kid, she studied up on suicide enough to take care of all this contingencies?

Impulsive AND obsessive/compulsive!

[LisaL]

63. The boyfreind's kid was not yet dead when she supposedly

killed herself. Her family says there was nothing on the computer indicating she studied up on suicide.

[Angry Dragon]

3. Why nude

[Auntie Bush]

9. That's what I was wondering. Why would anyone strip themselves naked

before committing suicide? Doesn't make sense unless she was a nudist.

[grantcart]

18. I am guessing there was some self administered drugs that altered

her normal rational thought process.

[LisaL]

19. You guessing couldn't be more wrong.

The tox screen on her showed there was no drugs or alcohol in her system.

[grantcart]

31. Really?

Googled a dozen different variations of Autopsy Drug Result, Alcohol Screening, etc and nothing came up.

The latest and most complete report on the autopsy doesn't include any results although it describes in detail both Max's tragic accident and minute details about her death.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

Where did you source your results on the tox screen?

[PassingFair]

33. Well, there's this:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/02/coronado-mansion-death-ruled-suicide/

snip>
Evidence leading detectives to this conclusion included black paint on her torso and hand, her DNA on the rope and bed leg, and toe impressions on the balcony tile consistent with her feet being bound. There were no alcohol or drugs present in her system, toxicology results showed. <unsnip

[grantcart]

35. tks

that article had more facts than anything else I read, including the fact that she was Burmese.

You don't have a source for what was written on the wall do you?

[PassingFair]

36. From the same article:

A message written in black paint on the door to the guest room with the balcony was also discovered. Officials would not disclose the contents of the message, but Zahau's ex-husband, Neil Nalepa, told The San Diego Union-Tribune it read: "She saved him, can he save her."

The findings were announced during a packed media briefing at the sheriff’s headquarters in Kearny Mesa, where a panel of law enforcement and forensic experts provided details into the mystery that has riveted the public and sparked widespread speculation.

[slackmaster]

20. Maybe she didn't want to soil her clothing

People who are hanged usually do a complete bowel dump.

[LisaL]

24. What would she need her clothes for after she was dead?

By the way she was also gagged with a t-shirt.

[slackmaster]

25. Who knows? Obviously she wasn't in a completely rational state of mind.

Maybe she was being considerate of a possible future owner of her clothes.

By the way she was also gagged with a t-shirt.

Yes, a t-shirt and not an expensive silk scarf.

[LisaL]

29. The woman was dating a millionaire.

Do you seriously think that while preparing to die she would be concerned for ruined clothes because some new owner was going to get said clothes? Or the cost of a t-shirt vs. the cost of a scarf to put a gag in her mouth?

[slackmaster]

30. As I posted up above, she obviously was not in an entirely rational state of mind.

You're trying to apply logic and reason to a non-rational situation.

Let it go, LisaL.

[WhiteTara]

38. Naked, bound hand and foot and gagged.

Wow. That is so hard to imagine that she could then hang herself without help.

[LisaL]

46. And apparently with tape residue on legs.

"CORONADO, Calif. (CBS8) – An autopsy report obtained by News 8 indicates "tape residue" was discovered on both legs of Rebecca Zahau, 32, when she was found hanging at a Coronado mansion on July 13."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

[chatnoir]

47. Whoa...

And neither the tape residue or gag where mentioned in the press conference announcing the suicide ruling.

[LisaL]

60. Not only that, her head had bleeding underneath the scalp.

"She has subgaleal hemorrhages; those are hemorrhages on the undersurface of the scalp. I see no reason why she should have those." Dr. Wecht said. "You get those when your head strikes something or is struck by something."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

[ixion]

5. yeah, 'suicide' with bound hands and feet.

riiiight. Can you say "massive coverup?" I knew you could.

[Dokkie]

6. Makes sense

If your hands were free, you wouldn't let your self hand and you have to undress yourself so you dont heat up from all the high summer temperature. Makes perfect sense if you are not thinking

[ChandlerJr]

10. So what you would do to disguise a murder scene to look like a suicide

is to strip the body, bind the feet and loosely tie the hands to throw off suspicion. Massive thinking.

[ixion]

11. No, I'd do what Mr. Shacknai has obviously done

call in political favors and pay off the cops.

[slackmaster]

27. It's one thing to propose a paranoid-fringe theory based on scant evidence

It's quite another to come right out and say that someone who you don't know "obviously" did something for which you have no evidence whatsoever.

[ixion]

40. I propose nothing, merely offer my opinion.

I'm sorry that it's not a wild fringe theory. It is, however, the way things get done in this world, unfortunately, especially where Big Pharma is concerned.

[slackmaster]

49. What bothers you the most about Mr. Shacknai?

His race, his gender, his sexual orientation, or his socioeconomic status?

If this case involved a poor minority same-sex couple with all the other facts the same, would you have the same suspicions?

[ixion]

51. a) none of the above; b) yes.

[slackmaster]

52. Thanks, but I suspect that if the case involved a poor minority same-sex couple...

...it wouldn't be so prominent in the news.

[ixion]

54. it may not be so prominent

but I would still say it's fishy. You were asking about what I believed, not what the MSM would make hay out of. ;)

[JI7]

14. i guess you can also say if it was murder coverup why tie hands and feet

[ixion]

17. I don't think they cared at the time...

but yeah.

[slackmaster]

21. You should call the Coronado police and explain your theory to them

[msanthrope]

57. Suicides by hanging do bind themselves--it makes it go quicker, with less panic.

Any self-help site will tell you how.

[valerief]

12. There's suicide and there's suicided. nt

[MilesColtrane]

13. Somethin' ain't right there.

[Liberty Belle]

15. Much more on this story in the hometown paper; family isn't buying this:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/02/coronado-mansion-death-ruled-suicide/


There was a note scrawled on a door in black paint that read "She saved him, now can he save her?"

I wonder who that refers to. Doesn't sound like something she would write. There was matching black paint on her palms.

The family definitely doesn't believe this is suicide.

The man was rich enough to have hired a professional killer. Or maybe she was involved with the brother who found her body; could be a kinky sex thing gone wrong.

[slackmaster]

23. Do you seriously think that a parent whose child is on his death bed would bother thinking about...

...hiring a professional killer?

[yardwork]

26. Yes, if said parent was involved in the death of the child.

[slackmaster]

28. There's no evidence that the man had anything to do with the child's death

You should read up on the story.

[yardwork]

32. I have read up on the story and I think that the "official" version is very fishy.

[slackmaster]

34. Nice dodge

:rofl:

[yardwork]

37. It's not a dodge at all. I responded directly to your comment.

[AsahinaKimi]

16. Why would anyone hang themselves while nude?

I mean, its not like you're saying: "You could have had this, but you blew it.." That's just some kinda freaky! Doesn't sound like it would be a dignified kinda death one would want ever..

[slackmaster]

22. Hanging is never a dignified death. I know people who have cleaned up the mess.

There's nothing dignified about it.

[joshcryer]

48. If that's the case, why not buy a pair of adult diapers?

I dunno, I think the lack of clothes thing may have been more ritualistic than a concerted effort to make sure there was less mess.

edit: ahh, I hadn't seen post #39, I figured it was something like that.

[Mortos]

39. A lot of people disrobe before committing suicide

Here is the website of the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry which explores the phenomenon:

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

And some of the psychological explanations for it:

Approximately 95 percent of completed suicides are associated with mental illness.10 Naked suicide, by itself, does not suggest a specific mental disorder. As noted above, individuals who jump to their deaths naked may be psychotic. The psychodynamics of a naked suicide often remain opaque.
Naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. The shedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirth and cleansing, or a sloughing off of the world. In the biblical description of Christ's resurrection, his clothes, a symbol of an unregenerate world, were left behind as he ascended into heaven.11

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.

In severely depressed individuals, a naked suicide may be an expression of vulnerability, utter despair, desolation, and worthlessness. Psychotic patients may be responding to delusions or auditory hallucinations commanding them to commit suicide while naked as a self-abasement.

In an illustrative case example, a suicidal psychiatric inpatient with a psychotic depression (case disguised) believed that he was the cause of the world's calamities. During suicide risk assessment, it was discovered that the patient planned a naked suicide to atone for his "sins" by becoming a "sacrificial lamb, shorn of my clothes

[LisaL]

41. While outside, hands and feet bound and gagged?

I dare you to find even one example of a female other than Zahau committing suicide in that matter.

[slackmaster]

50. Most people don't have homes that would accommodate that kind of suicide

HTH

[treestar]

42. Doesn't sound right. I think the cops should continue the

investigation. At least look into the possibility someone might have killed her.

[slackmaster]

53. They already did that. They found no evidence that anyone but the victim was involved.

No fingerprints, no DNA evidence, presumably no fibers or anything else.

Of course maybe a one-armed man did it, and tried to make it look like Mr. Shacknai did it.

[treestar]

55. the new forensic evidence is very helpful but should not now

be considered required. Someone could be smart enough to remove their DNA from the scene.

I just think it sounds very strange. She could have killed herself this way, but maybe not. Maybe someone else did it. At least, they should look into it.

[chrisa]

43. I knew someone who did this.

They tied their hands and feet because they were afraid they would chicken out while hanging and get off the rope.

[LisaL]

44. While in the nude and with a gag in the mouth?

Hanging outside?

[chrisa]

45. Nope

[Tom Ripley]

58. I guess it was a toss-up between this and shooting herself in the back of the head numerous times