A $16 muffin? Justice Dept. audit finds ‘wasteful’ and extravagant spending

[alp227]

Source: The Washington Post

Where does a muffin cost more than $16?

At a government conference, it turns out.

They may run just over $2 at your average coffee shop, but the Justice Department paid seven to eight times as much at a gathering it held at the Capital Hilton in Washington. And on Tuesday, the muffins seemed well on their way to joining the Pentagon’s $600 toilet seat as symbols of wasteful spending.

Justice Department auditors also criticized a $76-per-person lunch at a conference at a Hilton in San Francisco, featuring slow-cooked Berkshire pork carnitas, hearts-of-romaine salad — and coffee at $8.24 a cup.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-16-muffin-justice-dept-audit-finds-wasteful-and-extravagant-spending/2011/09/20/gIQAXKyhiK_singlePage.html

[tomhayes]

1. They used PRIVATE companies for events

This is COMPLETELY NORMAL industry pricing from event planners.

Just a way to get people mad about "who my tax money is spent" - then they can cut social programs.

Or I guess they want conference held at Dennys?

Heart-of-romaine salad is to damned of a liberal food. Why couldn't they eat a bad of iceberg lettuce with ketchup on it???

[No Elephants]

26. So, nothing between the Hilton and Denny's?

Besides, what is wrong with holding a government conference in an inexpensive place?

I don't spend $16 of my money on a single muffin. Why should they be able to spend my money that way?

[notadmblnd]

2. 8.24 for a coffee? My large at Tim Hortons is 1.79. My lunch at McD's

3.18 (mc chicken, coke and small fry) and the 8 muffins I picked up at the local Kroger for 5.00, (which makes them 1.06 each). Grand total for food =6.03. That's 2.21 less for the entire day than just one of their coffees.

[Thor_MN]

19. I agree with your sentiment, but 8 muffins for $5 = $1.06 each??

Better retry that math....

[notadmblnd]

20. What can I say,

I struggle with math.:shrug:

[Thor_MN]

24. Only problem is that they are 62 and a half cents each, otherwise you are exactly correct

B-)

[Downwinder]

3. I'm beginning to understand how it takes $200,000 for a Congressman

to feed his family.

[frazzled]

4. Looks bad, but it includes room rental

It's still bad, but the article in the New York Times explained it better:

Moreover, the department told auditors that some food costs were exaggerated because of the way deals with the hotels were often structured: the hotels provided “free” meeting space in exchange for an agreement to use their pricey food and beverage services.

Planners often did no cost-benefit analysis to determine whether it would have been thriftier to pay for the meeting space directly and obtain cheaper catering, the report said. But it noted that the conferences often ended up spending tens of thousands more on food and beverage than the minimum necessary to secure the “free” meeting rooms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/us/justice-dept-draws-criticism-for-pricey-food.html?_r=1&ref=us

Anyone ever throw a wedding? You can get the ballroom space for free, but there's usually an exhorbitant food and beverage minimum: hardly the cost of the rubber chicken or dry fish (sometimes, you can't tell the difference between the two, so you can refer to it as "fishkin.") It's probably more cost effective to rent a space and then pay a reasonable caterer in the end. Still, I can see why conferences need to take place in hotel spaces. It just needs to be better managed and better deals cut.

[No Elephants]

27. When people are spending my money with no realistic choice on my part as to how they spend it,

they should spend as little of it as they can. Obviously, that was not the mindset of these people.

I approved every penny spent at my wedding--and enjoyed it, too. At other folks' weddings, at least no one expects me to pay the bill. So, what is spent on a wedding has no bearing on this situation.

And, whether the reception is held at the Ritz or the VFW Hall, the couple is no less married. Similarly, a conference held the most expensive way possible is not guaranteed to be more productive than one held "bare bones." In fact, if I were to speculate, I might suspect the opposite.

[Ian David]

5. I'm glad that The Obama Administration uncovered this waste that goes all the way back...

... to the Bush Administration.

[Auggie]

6. And no one is accountable, is that it?

No one gets yelled at. No one gets fired. No one is forced to make restitution. No laws are passed, no guidelines are written. It'll just go on and on and on.

Just a couple of those muffins -- and I refer to the mark-up on them -- would feed a hungry family. Buy some new schoolbooks. Whatever.

:grr:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dennis Donovan]

8. ...and these "accounts" are linked in your post?

Not that I don't believe you, but I don't believe you. The burden of proof is on you...

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dennis Donovan]

11. RW site (non-partisan, my ass)

...busted! And alerted...

[pdefalla]

12. CAGW not "non-partisan"

Jack Anderson good friend of Joseph McCarthy. J Peter Grace good friends with Rupert Murdoch. Both good buddies of Reagan. Very much right wing org. funded by same folks who fund FreedomWatch, etc. The Grace commission is often regarded as a tool to justify privatizaion by demonizing government efficiency.

[arcane1]

9. Not to mention the case of our two wars

where pretty much 100% of the money was wasted.

[harmonicon]

13. The anger in this thread is completely silly.

Some people have been reasonable, but been ignored. Conferences are expensive. A conference isn't held at a coffee shop with foot traffic and turnover. I don't know what the silly finger-food lunch and endless coffee (all of which was really quite good) cost the conference organizers, but I imagine it wasn't take-out prices. What were the caterers paid? What about the people at the bakery who make the muffins? What about the other middle-men? Fuck... shit costs money, and convenience especially costs money. This is almost NOTHING compared to actual government waste, but if it serves to get enough supposedly liberal Democrats hot under the collar about "wasteful government spending", the right still wins, because - as Uncle Ronnie told us all in my childhood - the government is evil and wasteful and all government spending is bad, mmkay?

[No Elephants]

28. This is small potatoes, or crumbs, if you will, but it is symptomatic.

And, shoot me, but I do find it both annoying and entirely avoidable. Why is it a lot for me to expect that people spending my money spend it at least as carefully as I would, if I were spending it on myself?

The only choices in the world are not holding a conference in a coffee shop or a Hilton.

As for the wars, yes, I hate them. If I had to choose between the two, I'd okay the muffins and stop the wars.

However, that doesn't seem to be how it works. Spending $16 on a muffin doesn't seem to guarantee no wars. So, what's wrong with opposing both?

Just my two cents.

[harmonicon]

36. This hasn't been framed well though...

A fair comparison would be to put this against what private entities pay for such conference services. I go to conferences related to my field - they do serve a purpose. If it's proven that the government is overspending on this in comparison to private entities, maybe there's something to get upset about, but if not, I really do think it's just more anti-government propaganda.

[No Elephants]

40. Private entities are spending their own money, not mine. Also, they are

(or should be) spending from profits they earned, not deficits they created. So, in all, I disagree that an appropriate comparison is what private entities pay.


That said, you may be correct about anti-government propaganda. But, that doesn't mean there is not also a valid point in there somewhere. It isn't always "either 100% this or 100% that."

If government gets more careful with spending my money on contractors of all kinds, be they Halliburtio or Hilton, I'm all in favor of that.

An article advocating reducing pensions of government employees, however, would be very different--though both may stem from the same evil mentality.

Even when grown in the same farm, I can tell a juicy tomato from a bad apple (whatever that means).

[harmonicon]

41. I agree that there are grey areas.

Sure, there is probably something worth criticizing here. I'm just trying to be a voice to counter the knee-jerk reactions that others have about this, generated by giving false equivalencies. For god sakes, I drink instant coffee at home, and £1.80's worth lasts me a few weeks. Should I compare that to whatever they were charged for coffee by a catering service? Of course not. I pay almost that much for a single cup when I go to a coffee shop, but that's the sort of reasoning that people are using to get bothered about this.

[SoCalDem]

14. Catering services offer a variety of things at a package price

usually based on number of people and time of day. It's unlikely that all people would want the same thing, so multiple things are offered....some pricey , like muffins..and other not so much. The overall price has to be enough to cover wages for people putting the stuff together, delivering it, setting it up and removal of leftovers/trash afterward..

What needs to be happening in these meetings is this:

an intern or lower level employee needs to be put in charge of this stuff and sent out to a donut shop..and they may need to be having the meeting attendees pony up into a "coffee fund". .

By outsourcing their "refreshments" they are paying more than necessary, and are having to make this all public.

It's like the $10 box of tissues on your hospital bill..they don't really cost $10, but the cost of getting it to your bedside table has been judged to be $10

[No Elephants]

29. No law says that they have to use a catering service to begin with.

Or a Hilton.

I used to work for a pretty posh firm. However, when that firm was spending its own money on meetings, we had them in the firm's own conference room (no charge beyond our fixed expenses) and sent someone out for food or had a local shop deliver off their regular menu, at menu prices, plus a tip and applicable delivery charge, if any.

At one point, when were feeling flush, we even had a full time coordinator whose job it was to arrange for some things. Otherwise, a clerk or secretary did it.

When we spent a client's money, it kind of depended on the client, how rich they were, how much they yelped about their bills, etc. BUT--our clients were free to go elsewhere and take their money with them. Taxpayers don't have that choice.

With as many govenment meetings as have gone on since 1789, I'm certain there are some conference rooms available in D.C. that already belong to the government (at our expense, too) where people could hold meetings relatively inexpensively if they wanted to.

[LonePirate]

15. These costs are ridiculous only because we can relate to them. Ultimately, it's still chump change.

With an annual budget in the trillions, these everyday items priced under $20 pales compared to the wasteful spending in the 10-12 figure range which we cannot comprehend as easily.

[Psephos]

25. The problem is that the same mentality applies no matter how few or how many zeros on the number. nt

[No Elephants]

30. Yes, we know it's only symptomatic of government spending of our money in general.

And that's the reason it's annoying.

[PavePusher]

37. Gotta start somewhere... why not with the easy, publically visible stuff? n/t

[Plucketeer]

16. Just one more indicator of

ripping the government when at all possible. Ya hafta wonder what the prices are for private industry or an individual guest. Sure, I understand the various folks behind that cup of coffee, but I'm paying just about that amount for a 3lb can of name brand coffee. $16 dollar muffins??? That's what - about 4 bucks per bite?
People going hungry in "this great nation". Absolutely crazy.

[zonkers]

17. Maybe it was a Kobe beef truffle muffin.

[NICO9000]

21. Love it!

:headbang:

[Overseas]

18. Look at the muffin ! Look at the catering ! Outrageous! so say the professional PR consultants

of the war profiteers.

http://www.contractormisconduct.org/

[No Elephants]

31. If you're implying that the muffins made us forget about war spending, you're mistaken.

[quakerboy]

22. That seems like a darn good reason

to deprivatize.


A handful of bakers, caterers, etc, on the government payroll. A decently equipped government facility specifically for the purpose of government agency conferences. I bet over the course of 5 years it would cost far less than $16 muffins and $8 coffee.

This is the sort of thing that happens when we force government agency's to deal with private contractors.

[No Elephants]

32. True,

but we never forced them to deal with private contractor

Please see Reply 29

[quakerboy]

35. Ok.

Semantics of it aside. Perhaps we should find ways to discourage them from dealing with private contractors.

Beyond which how do we know that they were not forced to deal with private contractors. It is my impression that over time congresspersons have managed to slip a great many porky little "Sure we'll give your organization funding for this, but you have to use it with this supplier who ever so coincidentally happens to be based in my district" kinda deals into legislation. And if nothing else, we can be sure that R's will do whatever they can to prevent any funds for government run endeavors if they are not personally profiting from it somehow.

[sam11111]

23. "Go-TO-Meeting" software for cpr based teleconferencing

End all meeting in person.
Save $

Stop giving RW evidence against us.

Quakerboy also had good ideas. Probably already exists...or just confer at some gov meeting room near an existing staff cafeteria
with gov cafeteria crew cooking the muffins and coffee et. Hilton is outrageous. Outrageous.

They live in a $150,000/yr GS12 (??) bubble. Why didn't the Inspector General prevent this?

[boppers]

33. That's yet another waste of money.

Go-To-Meeting is yet another way of soaking the IT ignorant. Which, unfortunately, is pervasive in government. Hell, we probably waste billions a year on "Office" software and operating systems, both of which are free for downloading... but I digress.

[No Elephants]

34. People still have to eat during long meetings.

I don't think the salary per se is the issue.

Even if you have millionos, spending your own money is always different, for better or worse, than spending other folks' money, especially when the other folks seldom find out what you are spending.

IMO, no consequences, even on the rare occasions something like this comes to light, is the issue.

[ileus]

38. Hey....We don't know what was in those muffins. n/t

[Kennah]

39. Well, they did hire Cannabis Catering Inc.