ATF: Illegal to Sell Guns to Med Marijuana Users

[Ptah]

Source: ABCNews.com

By MATT VOLZ Associated Press
HELENA, Mont. September 28, 2011 (AP)


Firearms dealers in states that allow medical marijuana can't sell guns or
ammunition to registered users of the drug, a policy that marijuana and
gun-rights groups say denies Second Amendment rights to individuals who
are following state law.

Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or
she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled
substances. A Sept. 21 letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms
and Explosives, issued in response to numerous inquiries from gun dealers,
clarifies that medical marijuana patients are included in that definition.

"There are no exceptions in federal law for marijuana purportedly used for
medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by state law," said the
letter by Arthur Herbert, the ATF's assistant director for enforcement
programs and services.

Federal firearm licensees, or FFLs, can't sell a gun to someone who answers
"yes" when a required form asks whether the buyer is a controlled substance user.
Last week's letter also says that licensed dealers can't sell a gun or ammunition
if they have "reasonable cause to believe" the buyer is using a controlled substance.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/atf-illegal-sell-guns-med-marijuana-users-14626488

[cleanhippie]

1. No, its not illegal.

Until due process is completed and a person convicted of a felony, all Constitutional Rights remain in full effect.

Someone is gonna get paid handsomely via a lawsuit on this...

[TheWraith]

16. Not quite. The issue at hand is the background check on firearm sales.

Every transaction which goes through a dealer, there's a background check, which includes a list of questions. One of those is "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

According to federal law, medical marijuana use is illegal. So any MM patients would be considered "illegal users" of marijuana, and therefore fail the background check, at least according to the ATF.

[WingDinger]

2. So they intend grower patients to face home invasions without a gun?

And every bad guy will know that it is unlikely to face resistance.

[boppers]

36. Yeah, because growers are known for their adherence to laws.

:eyes:

[Prospero1]

3. Let me get this straight....

in order to exercise one's 2nd amendment rights one must give up one's 5th amendment rights?

[burf]

4. This is the same ATF

that is running guns to the drug cartels in Mexico?

Just another of the things that make a person go Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Uncle Joe]

43. Yes because if med cannabis users have guns, the ATF won't have enough guns to sell to the cartels.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x464334

[Blacksheep214]

5. How about this?

Get a DUI and lose your rights to own a firearm.

Quick death!

[Blacksheep214]

6. Why is the government in my medical records?

How is that legal?

[Psephos]

10. Wait 'til you see what's coming.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/09/27/obama-wants-your-healthcare-records

[boppers]

33. I'd be fine with that.

If someone can't use a 1-ton weapon responsibly, I'm not going to trust them with a different weapon. Give 'em a year to get therapy, and try to clean up their lives, and see if they can avoid breaking laws.

[blackspade]

7. So using controlled substances...

invalidates the 2nd amendment?

So, anyone who is taking perscription medication is included?
They are, after all, taking a controlled substance.

[TheWraith]

17. The ATF specifically singles out "unlawful users."

In other words, you can buy a gun while on hydrocodone, or anti-depressants that have suicide as a side effect, or mind-altering pharmaceuticals, as long as they're not considered "bad" drugs by the ATF. Meanwhile, light marijuana use for relief of pain or nausea is a no-no. :eyes:

[boppers]

34. No, you can buy a gun if you aren't *addicted, or using illegal drugs*.

"an unlawful user of, or addicted to".

[Occulus]

20. Deoxyn is the trade name for meth.

Yes, that's right. Meth is sold as a legitimate, prescribed pharmaceutical for ADHD in both children and adults, for exogenous obesity, for narcolepsy, and one or two other conditions.

So, is the ATF restricting the right to bear arms for those who are prescribed Deoxyn?

Here's a better question. Why does meth have a legitimate pharmaceutical use, but cannabis does not?

Another great example of how utterly screwed up our drug policy is lies in the history of MDMA. That was used in a whole host of psychological therapies, from talk therapy during divorces to the treatment of PTSD in soldiers. Nonetheless, once people who dance to house music got hold of it, it was yanked, for the sin of making people who take it feel good. Of course, that all by itself made the drug more dangerous, to the point that you don't know, today, what's in that little pill.

[GReedDiamond]

29. That's not quite right...

...it's Desoxyn®.

Whatever you do, do NOT forget to include the Registered Trademark symbol (or the "s")!

[boppers]

35. "Why does meth have a legitimate pharmaceutical use, but cannabis does not?"

Dosages, purity, and control.

Same thing with MDMA, and marijuana derived drugs.

Pure versions of specific chemical compounds are legal, street drugs are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol is legal, for example.

[frylock]

8. r2z

[surrealAmerican]

9. Does this apply to other prescription medications as well?

Just what definition of "controlled substance" are they going by here?

[Psephos]

12. Here's the ATF's own definition.

http://www.atf.gov/careers/drug-policy.html

Looks to me like this rules out gun ownership for ten million people being treated for ADD, just for starters.

We live in a country well on its way to becoming a police state.

[ArcticFox]

15. On its way? Do you do standup?

Having just returned from Europe, I can assure you that, as demonstrated by U.S. air travel procedures, we are already there.

[Psephos]

32. Have anything useful to add to my comment, or were you just using it as a fire hydrant? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

25. The federal government does not recognize any medical purpose for marijuana.

Therefore any state prescription is automatically null/nonexistent to the fed.

[DreamSmoker]

11. Land of Laws is righteous and wrong(((AGAIN)))

When Cannabis is concerned... What the Hell is the difference from the ATF and the DEA??????????...
Not Much...
America is a Land of Laws... Does not make anything right though..
American History proves that over and over again..
Cannabis is now at the top of this issues...
Science has proved this Government has lied to the hilt to back its stand that Cannabis has no Medical Value..
The DEA has recently Stated this again.. Even when the Horse has left the Barn and Science has showed this Governments true Colors...
Lying Bastards who will arrest confiscate or even Kill you for possessing Cannabis...

[Bozita]

13. Get thee to thy local gun show

MedMar shouldn't be much of a problem there.

[TheWraith]

18. Only if you're going to wander around asking other attendees if they'll sell you a gun.

Despite "conventional wisdom," dealers are still required to do background checks on sales at gun shows.

And I doubt it would be lost on the other attendees that someone is wandering around asking to buy a private gun because they can't go to a dealer.

[Mr Deltoid]

24. They do not do background checks at gun shows

They have you fill out a little slip of paper promising you have no felonies on your record. That is all they do, at least at the shows I've bought guns at.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Only from private sellers.

Any FFL holder MUST do a background check even if he or she is off-duty from the gun store they work at.

Just like people selling in the newspaper, or at a garage sale. If you aren't a gun store or a FFL holder at the gun show, you don't have to perform a background check. That's all.
No person that sells firearms for a living can do that.

[Mr Deltoid]

30. True

Both times I bought guns at shows it was from private sellers.

[TheWraith]

28. Federal law requires gun dealers to perform background checks on every sale.

Whether they're at a gun show or not, whether they know the customer or not, whether they're even just selling one of their own weapons not through their business. There is no discretion or loopholes for FFL holders.

Now if that "little slip of paper" you're referring to is the Form 4473, well... that IS part of the background check.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. How dare the ATF enforce the law as it is written!

[Ter]

21. The ATF should be a convenience store

They should be enforcing the 2nd Amendment.

[Ignis]

38. A doctor's prescription =|= "an unlawful user of, or addicted to"

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. Federal law prohibits doctors from prescribing Schedule I Controlled Substances

Doctors are only 'recommending' that patients use medical marijuana. If they were to prescribe it, they would be violating federal law.

[Bragi]

19. If only a democrat were in the White House /nt

[gtar100]

22. Good, there's been far too much gun violence from medical marijuana users.

Far too much. It's all over the news, everywhere.

It's not like there are any other problems to be concerned about, right?

:sarcasm:

[Mr Deltoid]

23. Open season on medical MJ patients

[BiggJawn]

27. Yet it's A-OK to sell firearms to alcoholics...

Never met a "mean" pothead, I've met PLENTY of "mean drunks".

[Doctor_J]

41. That's why it's called the War On SOME Drugs

[krabigirl]

31. Wow. But Oxy users, people who drink, etc., no problem. But heaven forbid you use a natural medicine

horrible.

[Blacksheep214]

37. How hard can it be to get a gun

when we buy illegal weed all the time.

We are obviously criminals so we do what we must.

This veteran is pissed!

[Doctor_J]

40. While I do think the country would be better off if all guns were replaced with pot,

this seems like a mostly-for-show law.

[AngryAmish]

42. Shut them down

Why is the ATF attacking the American people?

[retired af major]

44. Just freakin wow ...

My government is really really out of touch. Its rules aren't serving the people of this country very well.

A listing on a government website-
Pharmacological and therapeutic secrets of plant and brain (endo)cannabinoids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18777572

Here is, I shit you not, a Texas based NYSE listed corporation (CBIS) being reported in a phama trade journal as doing medical business with its cannabis based products-
Guidance For Cannabis Science Brand Products To Be Released October 2011 In Colorado Based On Accumulating Anecdotal Reports Of Successful Cancer Treatments With Cannabis Extracts
http://pharmalive.com/News/Index.cfm?articleid=804875

This is a link to a business trade journal reporting on the same company-
Cannabis Science: How it talks to shareholders
http://www.businessinsider.com/cannabis-science-how-it-talks-to-shareholders-2011-9

There are marketed and prescribed medications that contain the active ingredients in cannabis-
Sativex® is a cannabinoid medicine for the treatment of spasticity due to multiple sclerosis which is also in development in cancer pain and neuropathic pain of various origins...
http://www.gwpharm.com/Sativex.aspx

Same company, different treatable ailment-
GW signs Sativex cannabis-based drug deal with Novartis - GW Pharmaceuticals has signed up Swiss drug group Novartis to sell its cannabis-based multiple sclerosis drug, in a significant breakthrough for the British company that sent its shares up more than 12pc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/pharmaceuticalsandchemicals/8443914/GW-signs-Sativex-cannabis-based-drug-deal-with-Novartis.html

The website of the American Cancer Society
The most reliable cancer treatment information - Marajuana
http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/marijuana

Government website, "We the People" We Petition the Obama Administration to:
Legalize and Regulate Marijuana in a Manner Similar to Alcohol.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/legalize-and-regulate-marijuana-manner-similar-alcohol/y8l45gb1

Wondering outloud if the NRA would support destruction of this barrier to exercise of 2nd Amendment rights? Cancer patients can't practice their hobbies or defend themselves with tools other citizens are afforded?

One-quarter of the states have medical marajuana programs.
The prohibition of cannabis in the US created a monstorous criminal underworld in Mexico.
Government, this is the People, time to reconsider dumb policy.


Disclaimer: I own CBIS stock.

[Socal31]

45. Hmmm....

What about the 4 people that the US government still mails 300 joints a month to because of a lawsuit?

[Ride4Life627]

46. I'm hoping,

Reeeeally hoping that this is all a large showing as these Drug War agencies gasp for their last breaths of air. It was last week I heard about the DOJ potentially eliminating the ATF. A wounded lion is much more dangerous than a healthy lion...

Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf/page/full/preview

[fascisthunter]

47. lol... ridiculous