Greek crisis: Papandreou 'to offer to resign'

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulios immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm.

Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

[Katashi_itto]

1. This could be it... A very Black Monday could be on it's way to Wall Street :)

[Poll_Blind]

4. Why? The markets will rejoice if the Greek people never get a say in their future.

That's the goal.

PB

[truebrit71]

9. Yup...Markets UP on the prospect of him leaving and no referendum..

...

[randome]

16. That's not the point.

Leaders are elected to make the decisions, not to abdicate their responsibilities and turn everything over the populace.

Greece is a democracy. That's why they have elections.

[fasttense]

19. Elections alone do not make a democracy. Saddam had elections.

Being able to vote does not make a democracy.

It's not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes.

[Poll_Blind]

20. That argument is specious at best. Papandreou called for a referendum on an important matter.

One which the Greeks will have to live with for generations. You sound a bit panicked- first reminding us all that "Leaders are elected to make the decisions" then criticizing Papandreou for making the decision he did.

Which is it going to be? Either you support the notion that an elected representative is vested with certain powers by the citizenry or not. In this case he was exercising the powers he has as PM.

Where is this "abdication" and "turning everything" over to the populace?

I'd take a few and retool your argument. It is not persuasive.

PB

[randome]

25. Turning a decision over to someone else is not making a decision.

Rising to the occasion and making the call -that's what a leader is supposed to do.

The Greeks will also have to live with a sizeable economic depression if they turn away from the debt deal.

That's just the way it is.

[KeepItReal]

2. One day he offers up the Euro bailout plan to a vote by the Greek people...now he's done?

Really?

[NoodleyAppendage]

24. I suspect it had a lot to do with the health and welfare of his family.

The banking overlords will have their way one way or the other. Leaving the decision up to the "people" is not part of their master plan.

J

[DCBob]

3. funny.. Euro markets are all up significantly at the moment as are US futures.

Maybe investors see this a good thing since Papandreou created this referendum crisis to begin with.

[dipsydoodle]

5. Vested interests

The euro rose for a second day against the dollar on speculation Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou will withdraw his proposal for a referendum on the nation’s bailout, easing concern voters will reject the plan.

The 17-nation currency advanced versus the yen before Group of 20 leaders discuss the region’s debt crisis at a summit today and Mario Draghi addresses his first policy meeting as European Central Bank President. The dollar and yen weakened as European stocks gained, damping demand for the relative safety of the U.S. and Japanese currencies. The ECB will keep its benchmark interest rate at 1.5 percent today, according to economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.

“The bounce in the euro today may possibly be related to signs of disagreement amongst Greek politicians over whether they will vote in favor of the government,” said Lee Hardman, a foreign-exchange strategist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in London. “If the government were to fall, that could be perceived at least temporarily as euro-positive as it could reduce the risk of the referendum taking place.”

The euro appreciated 0.5 percent to $1.3817 at 12:12 p.m. London time after falling as much as 0.7 percent. It dropped to $1.3609 on Nov. 1, the weakest level since Oct. 12. The currency strengthened 0.5 percent to 107.83 yen. The dollar was little changed at 78.02 yen.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/euro-strengthens-against-dollar-yen-ahead-of-g-20-ecb-meetings-today.html

[DCBob]

6. yes.. speculation that the referendum wont happen now..

however, I suspect if it doesnt happen the people are going to freak out which will create another crisis.

[dipsydoodle]

34. More vested interest

Obama calls for urgent debt deal. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15567822

[pampango]

7. He may not have a choice: "Greek government on verge of collapse"

If enough members of his Socialist party withdraw their support, he won't have a parliamentary majority. He'll have to resign or lose a vote of confidence.

The government in Greece is on the verge of collapse as opposition to the Greek prime minister's proposed referendum on more eurozone bailout funds grows.

Several members of George Papandreou's ruling socialist party have distanced themselves from his proposal, with Evangelos Venizelos, the finance minister, saying Greece's position in the eurozone "cannot depend on a referendum".

A series of defections cast doubts on whether he will keep his job.

Nikos Salayannis, a legislator from the ruling Socialist party, said on state radio: "The referendum is dead."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/11/201111310743878884.html

[yellowcanine]

8. Looks as if Berlosconi in Italy may be on his way out also.

We better hope this works out for Europe. It the Euro goes down it will drag down the U.S. economy also.

[T_i_B]

10. Greek crisis: Papandreou 'to offer to resign'

Source: BBC

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulios immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm. Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.



Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

[dipsydoodle]

11. Duplicate LBN

I can only assume I can cut and paste faster. :) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5047042

:hi:

[T_i_B]

13. Yes....

and I recommended your thread as your prize for that! :P

[Poll_Blind]

12. "...with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm."

Hrm...

PB

[tcaudilllg]

14. At this rate, the whole Greek parliament will be hanging from the tresses.

[bhikkhu]

15. I imagine he's taken a huge amount of flak...

I think he did the right thing in principle, and that the EU bailout provisions should in principle be approved by the people, but its also easy to argue that the risk outweighs the benefit. It might come down to pragmatism vs. principle, where one leads to a difficult local recovery, and the other might lead to more widespread collapse and impoverishment - not an easy decision!

[randome]

17. It WAS an easy decision to make.

You don't turn over do-or-die decisions to a majority vote.

That's not what democracies are for.

[Poll_Blind]

21. "You don't turn over do-or-die decisions to a majority vote."

:wtf:

PB

[randome]

22. Democracies elect leaders.

Leaders are supposed to make those decisions. Otherwise, we would only need computers to spit out surveys.

[bhikkhu]

28. Interesting idea, but referendums are a valuable part of democracy

...where, for instance, a leader is faced with an unexpected crisis which will affect the lives of most of his people, democracy is better if he calls a referendum and allows the people to decide. Leaders serve and represent people, and it is best to allow the people to take responsibility for their fates, rather than have it dictated to them.

Otherwise one would have an elected dictatorship.

[randome]

29. To a point, I agree.

But not on this point. This was too important a decision to take a chance on it failing. Austerity versus depression? I think the math is pretty clear on what would be best from an objective point of view.

[bhikkhu]

32. Yes, local austerity vs. general depression

It is pretty clear. I sympathize with the Greek president, but if you look at the history of the Greek entry into the EU and the general mess all along, its also easy to see the other side. Most of the problems were entirely within Greece, and there is some fairness if the effects remain their.

I know there is a strong "rich vs. poor" narrative going on in the coverage here, but it doesn't really fit the events so well.

[randome]

33. The effects would not remain in Greece.

The ripple effects are now and will continue to be world-wide. Look at how the international stock markets are reacting each day to the news that comes out of Greece.

The Greek people should not have the option of deciding whether or not to cripple an already fragile economy for the rest of the world.

[bread_and_roses]

18. How interesting that some here think the Greek people should just bow to the will of Global Bankster

how democratic!

[NoodleyAppendage]

23. MSNBC online: Breaking News that the referendum is SCRAPPED.

I guess leaving the decision up to the Greek people was too much democracy for the banking overlords to handle.

Now is the time for pitchforks and torches, me thinks...

J

[randome]

26. Pitchforks and torches.

Because the government of Greece has decided not to plunge the country into an economic depression?

The Greek PM (I'm never sure how to spell his name) made a dumb decision to not make a decision. Now he's had to reverse himself.

[NoodleyAppendage]

27. Are you kidding? The Euro deal would require Depression-like measures anyway.

Shouldn't the decision of whether the Depression-like conditions are on their own terms or to the benefit of the banking system be up to those most adversely affected?

The reason it was scrapped was exactly because they knew that the referendum would likely not pass. The citizens of Greece (and this country) are not stupid. The see what these "bailouts" are really meant to support, which is the current system of out-of-control capitalism and power grabs.

Keep on living in that bubble...one day soon it will burst.

J

[bhikkhu]

30. I tend to agree, but...

I'm pretty sure there's nothing good on the other side of the burst bubble either. I don't blame the European nations for wishing to hang on to their high standards of living and general prosperity. In retrospect, the decision to let Greece into the EU is one they'd probably all like to reverse, though it can't really be reversed at this point.

[randome]

31. Austerity versus Depression.

And you think the Greek people should have been given the chance to vote for a Depression that would affect millions of people's lives, perhaps the entire world?

The math is simple: the 'stupid' decision would have been to opt for a depression.

[NoodleyAppendage]

36. Or, perhaps more importantly a NO vote would actually bring down the problematic system

So, you are advocating for maintenance of the system that produced the problem in the first place?

If the Greek people do not want the austerity measures, then it should be left to their democratic vote. But, again, I guess democracy is only "allowed" when it suits the needs of the current oligarchy...

J

[randome]

37. Bringing down the System for Europe and, by extension, the world...

...is not something that should be done without some other kind of system to take its place.

If Greece was only playing with its own future, I would say more power to them. But this is a decision that will affect the world and would put a lot more Americans out of work, as well as many millions more throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

[NoodleyAppendage]

38. I would argue that's EXACTLY what is needed. A self-correction to establish a new "baseline"

We have the system in place, it's just a matter of those in power remembering that the power to govern is derived from the people...not multi-national corporations. Citizen unrest is the only motivating factor to make the drastic changes necessary at this point.

I welcome change because the current system sucks for 99%.

[randome]

39. I don't think all 99% agree that the system 'sucks' for them personally.

I think most of the 99% would agree the system in general sucks and is in bad need of reform.

But wiping out an economic system without a replacement in line would be MUCH more disasterous to the vast majority of people. Then you would see the 99% completely united -fighting for food.

[dipsydoodle]

35. Headline changed to : Greek PM Papandreou 'ready to drop' bailout referendums

and page updated using same link :

Greek PM George Papandreou has said he is ready to drop a proposed referendum on the country's eurozone bailout deal.

Mr Papandreou offered to hold talks with the opposition to seek consensus on the deal, adding that the referendum was never an end in itself.

>

Officials quoted Mr Papandreou as saying Greece had been faced with a choice between "true assent" - apparently meaning agreement between the major parties - and a referendum on the package.

"The referendum was never an end in itself," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

"True assent meaning" all parties agreeing to the austerity measures