Bachmann: Fallon song choice shows sexism, bias

[alp227]

Source: AP

GOP presidential candidate Michele Bachmann lashed out Wednesday at NBC for not apologizing or taking immediate disciplinary action for an off-color song played during her appearance on Jimmy Fallon's "Late Night."

In her first comments on the flap, Bachmann said on the Fox News Channel that the Fallon show band displayed sexism and bias by playing a snippet of a 1985 Fishbone song as she walked onstage for Tuesday's show. The title of the song is "Lyin' Ass B----."

"This is clearly a form of bias on the part of the Hollywood entertainment elite," Bachmann said. She added, "This wouldn't be tolerated if this was Michelle Obama. It shouldn't be tolerated if it's a conservative woman either."

(...)

One of Bachmann's congressional colleagues, New York Democrat Nita Lowey, had called on NBC to apologize for its "insulting and inappropriate" treatment of its guest.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/11/22/national/a075625S51.DTL

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. I think it shows that some people read the news.

[No Elephants]

37. And are sexist.

[Lucky Luciano]

3. If the shoe fits? nt

[wizstars]

18. ...don't let the dog drag it off......

[No Elephants]

38. Doesn't the shoe always fit when you deal in stereotypes and slur words?

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Not necessarily sexist. I could see the same song brought out if Donald Trump

were a guest.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Remember Me]

29. Of course it was sexist.

[Psephos]

36. Please tell me the irony of posting that under the name "no_hypocrisy" was intentional. n/t

[No Elephants]

41. +1

[no_hypocrisy]

67. It was.

[No Elephants]

39. Oh, please, Louise.

[Gormy Cuss]

70. Bitch.

That's how it's sexist. The title includes a derogatory term for a woman.
It wouldn't have quite the same punch if it were used for Trump.

As much as I can't stand Bachmann she's right on this one, except for the fact that if a FOX show did the same to Michelle Obama Bachmann would not have voiced a protest.

[nolabels]

83. In wild dog packs the bitch is the one who is the leader

It's actually some type of an acknowledgment that Ms. Bachmann is looked at as the lead dog in some form. One of the biggest problems in our society today is we have too many nonthinking followers that tag along just because everyone else is.

[Snotcicles]

5. They were just joking, (a standard republican shield). And while we are at it

lets roll some of that tape on what they have said about Michelle Obama.

[Remember Me]

23. What anyone said about Michelle Obama or Hillary Clinton or

anyone else isn't permission to return the favor. And you know it.

[Snotcicles]

27. That wasn't an approval. I was using sarcasm to point out their hypocrisy. nt

[No Elephants]

42. Seemed a lot more like you were saying turnabout is fair play.

[No Elephants]

40. It's just as sexist when applied to Bachman as it is when applied to the First Lady.

[Tom Ripley]

6. Ohhh, they will be playing "She's Gone" for you very soon

[bluedigger]

7. Doesn't mean it wasn't funny.

Fallon's desperate for publicity anyways.

[Remember Me]

24. I didn't find it funny at all. I found it humiliating -- and I wasn't even the

target.

IS someone else's humiliation funny to you in some way? Why, exactly? That's something I can't see at all. I'd like to understand it better. Please explain.

[Paka]

28. If she were "comfortable enough in her own skin" she could have

accepted it as the humor that it was intended to be. Had she found the depth of character required to laugh along with it, it would not have been humiliating.

:hi:

[Remember Me]

30. That shouldn't be required. No one should be placed in a position to

have to rise above such a situation in order to save themselves from humiliation that was intended.

Not only that, but she didn't recognize the song -- as you well know -- so what does that do for your pretty argument?

But when something aims at a person's basic make-up like that -- their gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity -- there's no way to keep it from being humiliating, and again: no one should be placed in the position to have to try.

[No Elephants]

44. Bullshit.

[saras]

69. Personally I found it funny because I think she deserves every bit of the humiliation and shame...

I'm about as sorry about the sexism involved in removing Bachmann from the field of public opinion as I would be sorry about the harm to the sport of baseball if I had to use a Louisville Slugger to beat off a child rapist after my grandkids.

I simply don't think the cause of fighting real oppression, including sexism, is going to be held back one tiny bit by this.

Would Dylan's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2wuPssClKs">Positively 4th Street have been acceptable? How about Shriekback's Hammerheads? Both fit, but not as well as the song they chose.

[Remember Me]

76. The sexism isn't so much about Bachman, actually

it's about ALL women, including rightwing women. But including your sister, your mother, your daughter.

And you're quite wrong about fighting real oppression, because if a Michelle Bachmann can be treated this way -- and it be LAUGHED about -- then ANY woman can be treated that way and far worse.

I simply don't think the cause of fighting real oppression, including sexism, is going to be held back one tiny bit by this.

That makes my blood boil. What sort of privilege is that speaking? How privileged are you that you can't even see the handwriting on the wall for women in this increasingly fascist state --

Or perhaps you didn't hear about the recent initiative where "miscarriage could equal murder charges" in Mississippi, or that the Obama administration is actively thinking about siding with certain bishops and other anti-woman forces to make birth control more difficult to get, especially for poor women? Maybe you don't see a connection there between the Bachmann incident and these; I do, and I know in my heart and soul that if women AS A CLASS were respected, not only would Michelle Bachmann not have been humiliated on national TV, not only would Michelle Obama not be routinely insulted and humiliated, but NO ONE would be talking about taking away more of our rights as women. No one.

Human dignity and respect. NO ONE has the right to take that away, to deny that basic level of humanity to any other living human being. No one.

If you can treat a prominent female politician like this, you can treat any other woman just about any way you want -- including raping, beating and killing her. Deny her access to abortion? Sure, who cares? Deny her access to contraception? Sure, why not? Who of importance would object?

[No Elephants]

43. Funny to whom?

[itsrobert]

8. I wouldn't put Fallon, Entertainment, and Elite in the same sentence

n/t

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[russspeakeasy]

10. STFU...

What a waste of skin...

[No Elephants]

45. As a woman, I'm glad she labeled it as the sexism it was.

It's gets pretty tired.

Ditto all the posts on DU condemning male or female cowards as pussies or as having no balls or stones or cajones.

[FarLeftFist]

11. F R E E D O M

[MaineDem]

12. I detest Bachmann but Fallon was wrong

No woman should be called a bitch.

[Book Lover]

14. +1 (nm)

[emilyg]

16. Agree 100%.

[MissDeeds]

21. I agree n/t

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

47. But, what if a Jew IS cheap or an African American DOES sit on the porch a lot?

Or a first American DOES want Manhattan back?

Or a Sicilian Italian IS a member of the Mafia?

Then, it is okay to use, and therefore help perpetuate an odious stereotype, right?

Think again.

[FreeBillClinton]

35. I concur. You can't have it both ways.

Readers on this forum would be incensed if he had done this to Nancy Pelosi or Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

[No Elephants]

48. Maybe.

Many readers are this forum have been known to praise Pelosi by remarking she has balls and to condemn Reed by saying he is a pussy.


And to tell me I should "lighten up" if and when I complain.

I've basically given up complaining about it since what has been going on in D.C. since 1980 concerns me more, but it does grate.

But I digress. Bottom line: Readers on this forum are not always the bellwether for what should acceptable when it comes to genderism.

[hughee99]

88. How about Hillary?

You can't be the Sec. of State and not be skilled at lying (for those who have tried to make the "shoe fits" argument).

[No Elephants]

46. Thank you.

[Yupster]

71. I don't think Fallon knew anything about it

The bandleader -drummer picked the song and tweeted for everyone to listen closely to it right before she came on.

Backman said if it was Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama, the drummer would have been fired, or at least suspended.

She is right.

[Bigmack]

13. Wow... I can't believe myself on this one..

I'm Mr. Crude & Mr. Rude..and I'll put my hatred of Repubs, and Bachmann especially, up against anybody here...

but...

I think it was a cheap shot, and not very creative, either.

"Isn't she Lovely" ... Stevie Wonder... a little dig, there.

or

"Sister Christian" ... Night Ranger..

or

You name it.

Blatant is not clever, and this gives her ammo.

[Tom Ripley]

15. I think it was subtle; how many viewers were aware of a relatively obscure 25 year old song?

[Bigmack]

17. That's what makes it a cheap shot....

Little boys making faces behind teacher's back.

[Remember Me]

20. Try this --

Little boys pointing at the teacher's breasts and making comments. NOT so innocent as "making faces." There is an ugly, sexual, SEXIST component that you're trying to erase.

[Bigmack]

26. Not trying to erase...just didn't say it. You're right. nt

[No Elephants]

50. Think you posted to the wrong poster or misunderstood Big Mack.

[No Elephants]

49. Is that the standard for odious stereotyping? How obcure the reference is?

[Tom Ripley]

64. Not necessarily; I refer to Justice Thomas as "Good Ol' Clarence" and that's

hardly obscure.
If the shoe or pump fits...

[boppers]

57. Some lyrics for context:

Lalalala Lalalalala
Lalalala Lalalalala
Lalalala Lalalalala
Lalalala Lalalalala

I knew her and she knew me
When she asks me to introduce him
When I did we were three
Until she tried to seduce him

I really thought our love was much too strong
But that little slut just proved us wrong
I still care and that's my fatal flaw
Cause sharing you will surely kill us all!

She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala

You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she loves you but you know she don't care
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she needs you but you know she really don't care
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she loves you but you know she don't care
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she needs you but you know she really don't care

She swears that her heart's for you
And she swears that her love never ends
She swears that she's all for you
As she messes around with your friends

I really thought our love was much too strong
But that little slut just proved us wrong
I still care and that's my fatal flaw
Cause sharing you will surely kill us all !!

She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala
She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala

You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she loves you but you know she don't care
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she needs you but you know she really don't care

She's just a...
Lalalala Lalalalala

You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she loves you but you know she doesn't
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she says she loves you but you know she doesn't
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
You know she's got you pussy-whipped but you're not sorry!
You're nothing but a little lyin' ass bitch !
She's just so full of shit...

this is dedicated
to lyin' ass Yvette

The lyin', piece of, sack of shit
Slut trash can scummy
Dirt bag... Biiiitch ! ! ! ! ! ! !

---

Oh, and Real Big Fish covered it quite well on a 2007 album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdE7x0W3j9g

[alp227]

58. I actually listened to the song, and there is a woman or women who sing there

so this isn't a male-written misogynistic tune.

[No Elephants]

60. Ever met a woman who is either sexist, or clueless, or both?

Also, what do female singers have to do with who wrote the song?

Finally, singing back up on something because you oneed a job, while not perfect, is different from chosing to play the song to take a gratuitous shot at a female politician.

Not to mention incredibly bad manners. She was, after all, Fallon's guest. (And I don't believe the disclaimer that he knew nothing about what his band was going to play.)

[boppers]

62. It was male written. By Fishbone.

Reel Big Fish covered it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishbone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Big_Fish

It's also interesting to think about the implications of the lyrics when the "she" and "bitch" refer to a gay man, and whether or not homophobia is intrinsically misogynistic.

[Tom Ripley]

63. And it got massive airplay in 2007 thus insuring that the vast Fallon audience

was familiar with the song and all appreciated the vicious sexist attack. Wait a minute...that didn't happen.
Hate to break it to you, but musicians have been playing "little jokes" for centuries. The Roots were just continuing that tradition.

[boppers]

79. The band was The Roots.

And yes, musicians change the world with smirks and jokes all the time.

http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=Occupy+luau+makana&pbx=1&oq=Occupy+luau+makana&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=7252l8394l2l9092l5l5l0l0l0l1l525l952l1.2.5-1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=70cc5b2a12e4d1dc&ion=1&biw=998&bih=596

[Tom Ripley]

82. I know it was The Roots

You are the one who pointed out that Reel Big Fish also recorded it in 2007.
I assume that was an attempt to counter my statement that it was a 25 year old obscure song.
I did not know that it was a musician's obligation to change the world. Thanks for clearing that up.
And just how much world changing are you accomplishing by sitting on your ass
posting on a message board about a trivial issue? Keep up the good work!

[boppers]

84. "I did not know that it was a musician's obligation to change the world."

Woody Guthrie made it clear. Music is an instrument of war, and of peace.

"And just how much world changing are you accomplishing by sitting on your ass
posting on a message board about a trivial issue?"

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/artist/Ron+Chmara/a/albums.htm

I could belabor you with my printed works, or the irritating information that I'm also part of the PHP project, but since you called me out, how have you changed the world? What have you done?

[Tom Ripley]

86. While I do apologize for my venomous tone, I stand by the substance

of my statement. And I am not going to engage in a pissing match over who is the bigger humanitarian. That is just stupid. And frankly, if I did so, due to the nature of my work, I can safely say that I would "beat" you in public perception. And that is also just stupid.

Seriously, did Woody Guthrie really change the world?

Is Pete Seeger actually a more important figure in 20th century music than Miles Davis?

[boppers]

87. I think Woody, Miles, and Pete all changed the world.

Arguing over which one was most important, is, to use your words, "just stupid".

[wizstars]

19. Nursing female dogs everywhere are offended by the comparison...

[No Elephants]

51. Bullshit. And, not that it matters for this thread, but, fyi, bitch" is female dog, nursing or not.

[DaveJ]

25. "Hollywood entertainment elite"?? It's called Humor! Something Repukes never understood.

I don't think there is even one successful right leaning comedy tv show. They know nothing about humor. Fallon et al. do it because it's funny and it's what the viewers want.

[alp227]

33. but Republicans will respond that liberals complain about political correctness

What would happen if Elton John performed at the white house with Michelle Obama in audience and included "The B- is Back" in his set?

[No Elephants]

56. +1 Caring what Republicans say is silly. Caring about what one IMAGINES Republicans will say is

even sillier.

The day I do anything in my life based upon the opinion I imagine a Republican would have about it is the day I commit myself to a mental institution.

Just my personal plan for my own behavior.

[DaveJ]

66. Okay, I apologized in #65

I just see what Repukes do, ruining lives everyday, and forget that we are above that.

It's a late night show where one expects political incorrectness. But, technically you're right, it's not the type of attack that I would want to see become a normal practice. I was wrong. Lying Ass Bitch is not a way to attack an opponent in a civilized society.

[No Elephants]

52. Bullshit. You need to re-read this thread.

[DaveJ]

65. NE, I didn't read the thread, just replied to the OP.

I take it you are offended by the content of the song The Roots played. What if they played Lying Bastard?

Okay, nevermind that. I respect your assessment of the situation. I was uplifted by the passion of the moment, and the chance to insult a right wing evangelist. True, there is no need to bring gender tension into humor, just as there is no need to insult anyone.

Your are right. But, I stand behind my observation that the Reight has no refined sense of humor. This clip is not the best example. If I were in control and could do it again I'd tell them to select a different song. You are right, if I were JF I would apologize. And I apologize for defending the decision. Again, I more wanted to make the statement that the Repukes have no sense of humor.

[The Straight Story]

31. Is she also calling for rush to apologize to Michelle? (nt)

[No Elephants]

53. And if she isn't, that makes this all right for women everywhere?

This does not insult only Bachman.

Democrats and Republicans alike should be calling for an apology in both instances.

However, this happened to her. She has every right to label it, very correctly, as sexism.

[alp227]

59. read the article, a woman Democrat in the House (Lowey) did

[No Elephants]

61. ? She thought it was insulting, too, as did Fallon and the head of NBC.

Seems to be unanimous, except for some of DU's socially aware liberals.

[wordpix]

34. not condoning poor hosting behavior, but

if Bachmann was so offended, why didn't she call Fallon on it during the show?

[No Elephants]

54. Calling him on it after the fact is better than never calling him on it.

In any case, I can think of a minimum of ten reasons why a politician would not want to do that on the spot on national teleision on his show, especially a woman being called a bitch.

[Yupster]

72. She had no idea what song it was during the show

First, she's entering the stage the last thing she's trying to do is figure out song lyrics.

Second, forgive this social conservative with 23 foster kids for not being up on her hip-hop.

[No Elephants]

55. Sexist, especially because a much funnier, and more pointed, song was readily available.

"Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took

<snip>

Don't know much about geography
Don't know much trigonometry
Don't know much about algebra
Don't know what a slide rule is for

<snp>

Read more: http://artists.letssingit.com/sam-cooke-lyrics-wonderful-world-wzxlmlw#ixzz1eb1c1lHP
LetsSingIt - Your favorite Music Community

Defending and rationalizing the indefensible is itself indefensible.

[Remember Me]

74. Now THAT would've been funny nt

[sarcasmo]

68. The truth often hurts.

[and-justice-for-all]

73. The song is fitting..

Well, is is not Michelle Obama now is she.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MaineDem]

77. You don't get it, do you? n/t

[Devil_Fish]

78. It is only liable if it is not true. NT

[Beaverhausen]

80. Until she speaks out against what Rush said about Michelle Obama

she can go fuck herself.

[killbotfactory]

81. Everything about this story is funny to me. nt

[sofa king]

85. Particularly that had she not drawn attention to it, I would not have known.

Because there's no such thing as bad press for her, she attracts it like metal filings to a magnet.

[BamaFanLee]

89. "This wouldn't be tolerated if this was Michelle Obama."

That is because Michelle Obama has earned respect in this country. Michelle Bachman may not have deserved this treatment, but she sure hasn't done anything to earn respect.