Chavez says gold being flown back to Venezuela

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Chavez says gold being flown back to Venezuela
updated 2 hours 1 minute ago 2011-11-25T18:23:59

CARACAS, Venezuela — Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says a shipment of gold is being flown to Caracas as the government withdraws its gold reserves from U.S. and European banks.

Chavez said in a televised speech that the first shipment of gold is arriving on a flight Friday. He says the gold was previously held in Britain.

Chavez announced in August that his government would repatriate all of the gold reserves held in the U.S. and Europe, about 211 tons.

The leftist president has said his decision is aimed at helping to protect the oil-producing country from economic troubles in those countries.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45437800/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/

[slackmaster]

1. It's really just tungsten bars from China

With a little gold leaf on them.

[harun]

2. Prudent. Although I wonder why it was ever in Europe or the U.S.

[former9thward]

14. Virtually all countries store their gold in the U.S. and Europe.

Usually much safer than their own countries.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. If you thought you were actually going to buy or sell some

then you'd do it at an international market for it; and maybe keep it around there for convenience (if it's in a bank you already trust, then they might not even have to move it - just change their records to show the new ownership).

[Ohio Joe]

3. I guess I don't see how this protects Venezuela...

I'm not an international finance guy at all so I don't see how this hurts anything either. How does where they store their gold effect anything?

[Dutchmaster]

4. Because gold has real value.

as opposed to the worthless paper and numbers in computers that the international financiers have convinced us are worth something. They aren't. Why do you think Fort Knox is so heavily guarded? Because it's filled with our real wealth.

[jwirr]

5. It is also why people buy gold. He is smart to bring the gold home

because they have it if the economies of other countries crash.

[joshcryer]

32. It was a defensive measure due to the Iran sanction threats.

He doesn't want that money in the US so he can become more friendly with Iran, Syria, China, etc.

[Ohio Joe]

6. So they don't have that wealth if it is stored somewhere outside their country?

What difference does it make where it is stored?

[Charronxyz]

8. Because gold has real value...

and a piece of paper that represent gold has little value in a world of corrupt international bankers.

[provis99]

18. gold has no real value. It is as imaginary as paper.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

47. Great point. nm

[Tempest]

9. It makes a big difference on where it is stored

Chavez isn't the most popular leader with the U.S. government and the U.S. would love a reason for freezing Venezuela's foreign held assets, which includes gold reserves.

[Ohio Joe]

10. ahhh, That makes sense

Keeping it from getting frozen is a good reason to move it back, I had not thought of that. Thanks!

[Arctic Dave]

11. Hit the nail on the head. Nt

[joshcryer]

33. Yep, happened around the same time as the Iran sanctions threats.

But there's also the potential for looting the reserves since we know that they already looted Fonden.

[christx30]

61. And if the US

ever decides to freeze Chavez's assets, all they will prevent him from getting his hands on is the 2 for 1 coupon at Arby's. The stuff of real value is in at home, about 12 feet from where he is.

[Charronxyz]

7. The gold at Fort Knox is gone...

There has not been an annual audit of the gold at Fort Knox as required by law since 1952.

[Brother Buzz]

12. THIS IS SERIES!!!111!!! CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!@2!111!!!

Ron Paul is waiting

[rhett o rick]

15. But cant our government make owning gold illegal? I think FDR might have done that.

Some one help me out here.

[Ter]

43. He did but FDR broke the law

He forced people to give up their gold.

[rhett o rick]

46. That's my point exactly. A president can and has forced people

to give up their gold. Easier today than in FDR age.

[TheWraith]

16. No, actually gold has NO real value. It's just as arbitrary as a paper dollar.

Having gold doesn't make you live longer, or make you healthier. You can't eat it, you can't wear it, and you can't sleep in it. It's simply a form of valued property, putting it in the same class with, say, a stack of 20 dollar bills. The only thing different about gold is that you can't manufacture it--which doesn't make it automatically valuable in and of itself, it simply makes it uncommon.

The belief that gold has inherent value is strictly a result of thousands of years of obsession with something scarce and pretty.

[Dutchmaster]

20. "value is strictly a result of thousands of years of obsession with something scarce and pretty. "

. . .. annnnd you just succeeded in making the case that gold idoes indeed have real value.

[SnakeEyes]

22. This is exactly what i was going to post.

I wonder if some of the reactions in this thread arent the result of knee-jerk responses to the fact that Glenn Beck promotes gold and so people assume buying gold is a scam

[TheWraith]

26. No, you just imagine that what I said somehow validates your point.

It's as absurd as the people who imagine that somehow gold would be super valuable if civilization collapsed. No, the things that had value would be practical items: tools, food, weapons, etcetera. Gold would have exactly zilch value. For most of human history, economics have been barter based: coinage, and gold as coinage, is a relatively new thing and one inherently dependent on civilization and fiat value.

[MADem]

51. If you're starving on a desert island, and you have a bar of gold and

your buddy has a bar of candy, who has the thing of value?

Gold is only handy because of what it can--in some cases--buy. That's the value of it, that people will exchange it for other things.

[Tunkamerica]

54. but you contradict yourself. we value numbers in a computer just as much.

the value of gold is exactly equal to the value you give it.

[Thor_MN]

41. You can't wear it? Odd, I see people wearing gold all the time...

True that it isn't going to keep you warm, unless it gets you someone to keep you warm. But your whole premise that gold has no inheirent value is hinged on reducing civilization to caveman standards. Which hasn't happened.

[TheWraith]

44. No, my point is that it's value is entirely mental, NOT objective.

People value it because it looks pretty, not because it's inherently useful. It's "value" is just as imaginary as that of paper money.

[rhett o rick]

48. I am agreeing with you only to see how strong your heart is.

Something has value only because of its usefulness or popularity. Gold has some usefulness in jewelry and some industrial uses, but most of its value is do to its popularity. At one time, beany babies had value, but I wouldnt hoard them for economic collapse.

[Thor_MN]

50. And my point is that unless society is reduced to hand to mouth, your point is moot.

As long as someone values gold, it has value.

[provis99]

17. gold is a phony as paper dollars. It only has fiat value.

[SnakeEyes]

23. "fiat"... you keep using that word

im not sure it means what you think it means

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

45. Given that the person you're replying to is an ECONOMIST...

I dare say they DO know, much better than you.

[joshcryer]

31. Our reserves aren't stored in Knox, they're stored in the NY Federal Reserve.

The fees that we charge to store states' gold there is likely less than the cost to ship and guard it in their own countries, which is why they do it.

[boppers]

53. They're actually stored in both,.

5,046 tons at Fort Knox, 7,716 tons in Manhattan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. That Manhattan figure includes other countries' reserves too

The US total is 8,965.6 tons - http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=16. So about 4,000 tons in Manhattan is American gold.

[northzax]

59. Real wealth? Please

Fort Knox holds roughly 147 million Troy ounces of gold. (fun fact: that's roughly 2% of all the gold ever extracted in human history) at friday's closing price of $1695.95/oz that means the aggregate value is $248,000,000,000. Yes, that's $248 billion. A lot of money, But half the revenues of Wal Mart last year. The GDP of the us last year was $14.58 trillion. Trillion. Trillion. 52 times larger.

[Fool Count]

13. How? By not letting a band of mercenaries to start a "rebellion",

to declare an alternative government, to get that government "recognized" by US and UK,
and to claim and receive that gold on behalf of "all Venezuelans". That's how.

[joshcryer]

30. The costs to store it on their own will likely be decades of fees that the reserve here charges.

The real reason is that they plan to rob the reserves when Hugo loses next year.

[Demeter]

36. Because fear of fraud and/or theft

The banksters will steal anything that is in their custody...see MFGlobal, mortgage-backed securities, and so on. Our government is playing fast and loose, enforcing laws in a biased, unfair fashion, besides.

Hell, if I could ship my KIDS to a safer, more law-abiding place, I would.

[Broderick]

19. On a different note than all the rest of the posters

WHY in the HECK would you announce something like that before it is secure???????


Seriously. 211 tons? GOLD? HEY look over here; I have 211 tons of gold being shipped in on Friday!


If it disappears, frankly my first thought is family security. His!


Stupid in my opinion.

[Demeter]

37. On the other hand, if it doesn't arrive

Everyone will know who is to blame...

[unkachuck]

27. something....

....is only worth what someone is willing to trade for it....and more people are willing to exchange something of value for gold, than pretty paper....

....gold that belongs to Venezuela should stay in Venezuela....less chance of 'confusion' over ownership rights....see, Hugo's not so dumb....

[Robb]

28. Yes, but you don't break off chunks of a nation's gold reserve to buy stuff.

You use it's existence as collateral to finance national projects -- guns or butter.

What happens to a loan made on collateral that's just become more difficult to seize in a default? The terms become less favorable to the borrower, as compensation for increased risk on the part of the lender. Venezuela is about to find that out, I expect.

And Chavez will blame the west. "For no reason whatsoever, no one will loan us money. It's not my fault you don't have a water plant, it's the imperialists!!" etc etc

[clixtox]

29. Hugo Chavez has explicitly stated...

that Venezuela is not interested in "borrowing" from the usual suspects...

The "World Bank" and the International Monetary Fund(IMF).

That is one major reason he is vilified and demonized constantly by the minions of the 1%, like the Main $tream Media and the CIAs moles on this forum, and elsewhere.

[Robb]

34. DU's CIA moles notwithstanding, who is going to finance anyone with inaccessible collateral?

Wells Fargo?

[clixtox]

35. Who makes huge loans to sovereign nations without collateral?

The "World bank" and the IMF have been making these sorts of loans for decades!

Who else?

Venezuela had about 400 tons of gold last year, supposedly. 14th largest horde of gold in the world. Many of the countries that have large debt loads have relatively small gold bullion reserves...

[Demeter]

38. Chavez doesn't NEED "Financing"

He stopped the foreign corporations from exporting profits, he stopped the flight of capital by the wealthy, he educates, houses, feeds, and maintains the health of his people. And Venezuela has oil, and solid contracts with China. His nation even has gold mines!

Chavez is building a strong, independent NATION--not an oligarchy. We should try that, ourselves.

[Robb]

39. LOL OK. nt

[hack89]

40. Chavez has borrowed $32 billion from China. nt

[dipsydoodle]

55. Yes - that's for social programs

.

[ChangoLoa]

57. No, that's for oil investment projects with CNPC

[dipsydoodle]

58. there were two lots of thirty

$30 billion worth of Venezuelan debt as well as an additional $32 billion oil-for-credit deal with China.

[Harmony Blue]

42. Gold and land ownership indeed have real world value

Yes the banking system and paper money turned out to be revolutionary. But I am shocked that there are people that believe gold doesn't have value.

Anyways, what Chavez is doing is ensuring that his country has more freedom to negotiate as he pleases what is best for Venezuela. The reason Chavez is announcing this is because Democracies require a level of transparency. It is not Chavez' gold, but the people of Venezuela. Public assets, expenditures and goods need to be transparent for a Democracy, but apparently most Americans do not realize this.

[rhett o rick]

49. However, either can be easily taken from you by the government. nm

[Fool Count]

60. And what can't be? Your bank accounts? Maybe your pension?

Even your very life can be "easily taken from you by the government".

[David__77]

52. Surprised this wasn't done in 2002.

This is just a simple matter of national security.