Britain bakes, Europe burns. Is this proof of global warming?

[inthecorneroverhere]

If it isn't proof of global warming at last, it certainly looks like it. As much of Europe burns like a furnace and rivers run dry across the continent, Britain is bracing itself for its own record temperature.

Sometime tomorrow, in southern England or the Midlands, the mercury in the thermometer may pass 37.1C, which became the national record when registered in Cheltenham on 3 August 1990. That centigrade peak translates as 98.8 Fahrenheit, so the remarkable figure for Britain of 99 or even 100F- is on the cards.

A record would be hugely significant - a three-figure Fahrenheit temperature for the UK would be breaking psychological as well as new meteorological ground as it would give many people for the first time the perception that global warning is a real, not a theoretical phenomenon - and that it is happening to them.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=430750



A quick note of commentary - El Nino has something to do with this weather also. The Eastern U.S. has been having a very mild, rainy summer, while the western U.S. and Europe are having terrible heat and drought. If I recall, this is typical of El Nino weather patterns. But, I definitely think it's a GW-enhanced El Nino. Interpret GW as either 'global warming' or as, well, you know....*

edit: added comment about El Nino

[PartyPooper]

1. But, George Bush simply would say it was "God's will"!

He will never accept the concept of 'global warming'.

[northernsoul]

11. GW - wierd correspondences

GW Bush
GW = global warming
GW = God's Will


alright you Illuminatus readers - what do you make of that?

:tinfoilhat:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. good work

:)

[KittyWampus]

2. Global Volatility Is A Better Term

IMO, than global warming.

Some Republican was spouting off in the Senate last week about how the climate is NOT whacked out by fossil fuel burning/emission... That there was a mini Ice Age in the Middle Ages and that any changes are strictly Natural Cycles.

What we can counter the Pugs with is the question-

Who is better able to recuperate from the flu, a healthy 20 year old who eats well and excercises or a 50 year old who smokes a pack a day?

There have been climactic changes and there are definately warming and cooling cycles but it is only within the last 100 years that we've added so much pollution to the atmosphere, laid down so much asphalt and chopped down so much rain forest.

The Earth, with the current crop of humankind on it, is being forced into the positon of a 50 year smoker trying to battle influenza.

[pfitz59]

3. Save your breath.....

The sheeple will never get it! Where's my Hummer?

[BayCityProgressive]

4. Silly Liberals...

it's a natural cycle :silly:

[hatrack]

12. "Climate Destabilization" perhaps a better term yet, IMHO

But it doesn't exactly fly off one's tongue, or fit neatly into the headline box.

[inthecorneroverhere]

5. hit that link!

Although the London Independent is generally conservative, this article is really detailed. It's a good read.

[T_i_B]

9. London Independent is generally conservative?

Actually the editorial position of the Independent is even more liberal than that of the Guardian! It's probbably the most liberal paper in the UK at present.

They have been doing front page splashes about Blair's WMD lies for months now. Plus they have Robert Fisk as their star journalist. All in all it's actually quite liberal. You have to go to the Times & the Telegraph for the right wing stuff.

[inthecorneroverhere]

27. mea culpa

My mistake - got it mixed up with the Telegraph.

[T_i_B]

6. Winter can't come soon enough

I'm no fan of hot weather.

[Oggy]

7. Me neither

I'm thinking in a year or so moving back up north to get perminantly cold.

[JCMach1]

8. No El Nino this year-- that makes this even worse

This is a NORMAL weather pattern...

:(


http://topex-www.jpl.nasa.gov/elnino/index.html

[samsingh]

10. Alaska is melting as well.

that should get some attention

[whatelseisnew]

76. In the last 25 years tremendous changes haved continued...

not what I would call a "spike". Declines in fish populations, increases in wolf packs, less cold, less snow, strange changes in the season cycles. It has been a continous trend for the last 25 years (from my personal experience - no science to back me up). This is not something to brush aside with "natural occurance" arguments, it should be an impetus to examine how we are impacting our land.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

13. El Nino is Global Warming

I am sick and tied of hearing that Record Breaking temperatures around
the world are the result of "El Nino". Isn't it funny that when GW
started to enter the lexicon of weather and politics so did El Nino.
This isn't a coincidence. It's an attempt to divert the public from
the real issue which is Global Warming. Next time someone tells you
this is an El Nino effect, tell them yes they are right, but El
Nino is a symptom of Global Warming, and without treating the
underlying cause of this disease, the problem will continue to get
worse.

[robcon]

16. El Nino has been known since the 70's

It has nothing to do with Global Warming. It starts with localized warming in the eastern South Pacific (the Humboldt Current usually keeps those waters extraordinarily cold.). The first sign is usually the poor harvest of anchovies off Peru.

The results of El Nino range from severe Pacific storms/flooding/landslides in California to drought in Australia.

[treepig]

14. a recent global warming trend is basically undisputable

what is less clear is if it's caused by human activity, or not. the recent correlation with increased carbon dioxide levels is quite strong in any case, as you can see by comparison with this graph:



on edit, the y-axis is carbon dioxide levels in ppm, the actual (complete) graph can be found here http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Lights3/lights_carbon2.html

[jpak]

30. Human activities are responsible! Check these papers out...

Richard A. Kerr (2001) It's Official: Humans Are Behind Most of Global Warming. Science 2001. 26; 291: 566

J. E. Harries, H. E. Brindley, P. J. Sagoo, R. J. Bantges (2001) Increases in greenhouse forcing inferred from the outgoing longwave radiation spectra of the Earth in 1970 and 1997. Nature. Vol. 410 pp 355 - 357

T. P. Barnett, D. W. Pierce, R. Schnur (2001). Detection of Anthropogenic Climate Change in the World's Oceans. Science. Vol. 292: pp 270-274.

S. Levitus, J. I. Antonov, J. Wang, T. L. Delworth, K. W. Dixon, and A. J. Broccoli (2001) Anthropogenic Warming of Earth's Climate System. Science. Vol 292: pp 267-270.

[treepig]

37. in no way am i questioning whether the current effects

are indeed man-made.

the point i failed to make was that a convincing case for man's involvement cannot be made based on the carbon dioxide - temperature correlations alone.

(unfortunately I didn't have time to fully develop my hypothesis, bringing in herds of cow's belching methane, etc etc - but instead posted snippets of information here and there which could tend to be misleading, sorry)

[Voice_of_Europe]

15. Oh common..!

Last summer in Europe was pretty bad and rainy....
This one is one of the best summer in my lifetime BUT I remember "good" summers like this from my childhood...

generally I say:
I'm sure the climate is CHANGEING... (as it ever did since ages)
But I don't believe the WARMING thing...

Pollution is an entire different thing and must be stopped or at least limited... but I don't believe in the global warming as an effect of it.

Take VOLCANOS for instance... in one big erruption they blast thousands and thousands and thousands of tons CO2 into the atmosphere.. more than the industry of whole continents can produce... or wildfires...
So I don't really see a reasonable link to global warming

[maxsolomon]

17. hey 4 posts!

welcome & wake up & smell the maple nut crunch!

[treepig]

18. the effects of volcano's are exactly the opposite

they cause global cooling, check out:


http://www.weathernotebook.org/transcripts/1999/06/08.html



April and May of 1816 were full of classic New England inclemency. Many fruit trees didn't bloom till the end of May. June started with a few nice days, but then came the shocker. In Williamstown, at the northwest corner of Massachusetts, the temperature dropped from 83 degrees at noon on June 5 to only 45 degrees the next morning-and that was the high for the day! Ice formed as far south as Philadelphia, and it snowed across northern New England. The weather finally warmed up, but just after the Fourth of July, another sharp cold front hit the Northeast. What was left of the summer's crops was finally destroyed by killer frosts in late August and September.

This brutal cool down was caused by something halfway around the world. The volcano Tambora, in Indonesia, had blown its top a year earlier in the largest eruption of modern times. Millions of tons of ash were sent into the stratosphere, filtering out sunlight over much of the globe for the next several years.

[ze_dscherman]

20. Subjective beliefs, facts and theories

Your subjective perception is right in one point - there have been other hot summers as well.

But science, and climatology, is not about beliefs or memories or just a single hot summer. This hot summer is not a proof for global warming. But the fact that average temperatures have been rising in the last decades is undeniable, just like the earth is a sphere and not flat. Also, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen significantly with the beginning of industrialization and the consumption of fossil fuels. This has been proven as well.

What is debatable is the impact of this human produced CO2 on climate. However, the vast majority of scientist accepts a high correlation between human CO2 production (and the production of other relevant gases and aerosols) and global warming.

[FlaGranny]

21. Ah, but volcanoes

actually send tons of debris into the atmosphere, which blocks the sunlight, and causes cooling of the atmosphere.

[pbeal]

22. did you mean come on...!

While Volcanoes and Wildfires do put billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere they tend to be fairly short events that the planet can shrug off , whats new is mankind pumping a steady and increasing stream of CO2 into the atmosphere over a long period of time.

Think of it as a bucket with a hole in it,
The bucket can hold 10 liters and the hole can empty the bucket at a rate of 1 deciliter per minute.
a Volcano will pump a 10 liters into the bucket once every 100 minutes,
for the last 5 minutes man has been pumping water into the bucket at a rate of 11 deciliter per minute.

at the moment because of man the bucket is half full with 5 liters((11xTime)-Time) , if there is a Volcano, the bucket will overflow, if man continues without a Volcano the bucket will overflow in 6 more minutes

[jpak]

25. More Republikan Horseshit

Here's a quick review of the global carbon cycle.

Biological processes:

Each year 120 billion tonnes of CO2-carbon are released to the atmosphere by respiration.

Each year 120 billion tonnes of CO2-carbon are removed from the atmosphere by photosynthesis.

The net flux of CO2 to the atmosphere from biological sources is very very close to zero.

Geological processes:

Each year ~0.1 billion tonnes of CO2-carbon are released to the atmosphere from volcanoes.

Each year ~0.1 billion tonnes of CO2-carbon are removed from the atmosphere by weathering and buried in deep ocean sediments.

The net flux of CO2 to the atmosphere from geological sources is very very close to zero.

Anthopogenic sources:

Each year human activities release ~7 billion tonnes of CO2-carbon to the atmosphere.

Approximately half of this (~3 billion tonnes of C) remains in the atmosphere.

Human activities are the only processes responsible for the measured rise in CO2 concentrations over the last 150 years.

Volcanoes are not a significant source of atmospheric CO2.

Period.

Anything else is Republikan Bullshit.

[treepig]

31. your analysis may be a bit over-simplified

from what we see from ice core data (from http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/temp_vs_CO2.html):



closely correlated changes in carbon dioxide and temperature occurred long before humankind could conceivable be responsible. in fact, it is quite possible that global warming drives carbon dioxide increases (and not vice versa as generally assumed) by warming the oceans thereby releasing carbon dioxide (gases are less soluble in warmer water) or melting ice caps where it is sequestered.

an added wrinkle is that humankind is now introducing many non-natural greenhouse gases into the atmosphere which, on a molecule by molecule basis, are much more potent 'green house gases' compared to carbon dioxide:

Types of Greenhouse Gases

Methane and carbon dioxide are only two of the six species of gases that need to be stabilized in order to mitigate the economic and environmental damages associated with global warming. Nitrous oxide along with several classes of halocarbons that contain fluorine are also greenhouse gases. See the following link for more information:

http://www.epa.gov/ghginfo/topics/topic8.htm#types

"Nitrous oxide (N2O) is a greenhouse gas that is produced both naturally and anthropogenically. Fluorine-containing halocarbons include hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs), perfluorocarbons (PFCs), and sulfur hexafluoride (SF6). Unlike methane and nitrous oxide, these greenhouse gases are generated exclusively by anthropogenic (human-related) activities. Currently, atmospheric concentrations of these halocarbon gases are small relative to other greenhouse gases. These compounds, however, have the potential to greatly impact global warming due to their potency and extremely long atmospheric lifetimes. Because they remain in the atmosphere almost indefinitely, concentrations of these gases will increase as long as emissions continue. Their potential to be significant and important contributors to global climate change make them an essential element of any greenhouse gas mitigation strategy."

[jpak]

36. Had to be simplified

to be appreciated by the morans.

I recently attended a conference at the National Academy of Sciences. Most of the International Big-Wigs in ocean/climate science were there.

One presenter made this point...

Over the last several hundred thousand years, atmospheric CO2 concentrations had two glacial/interglacial "setpoints": a low of ~200 ppm during glacial periods and a high of ~290 ppm during interglacials. These periods were characterized by changes in global mean temperatures of ~5 degrees C.

He showed the CO2 ice core data over this interval. He then presented a new figure showing the pre-industrial CO2 trends with current (~370 ppm) and projected (up to 1100 ppm) CO2 concentrations over the next 100 years.

Everyone there was well acquainted with ice core CO2 data and the IPCC predictions.

But to see all this data presented in that manner was quite shocking (audible gasps from audience).

The presenter went on to point out that past discussions of "human adaptation to climate change" were out-dated.

He suggested that future discussion should focus on "human survival".

No one challenged him on that...

[Boreas]

77. Global Warming as a Weapon of Mass Destruction

I kid you not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1007042,00.html

From this page you can get to their special report on climate change which is chock full of information and articles from an English point of view.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/0,12374,782494,00.html

"Focus on human survival!?"

I can well believe that he was not challenged on this. Looks as if it could come to pass, for where are the mechanisms and where is the will to stop it?

[chomskyite2]

79. global warming exists

but this is not ALL global warming, most of this heat wave is chance. that does not mean there is a dangerous trend that we must reverse.

[Kellanved]

19. It is certainly extreme this year

This story as an example:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/sfl-85drought,0,1247769.story?coll=sfla-news-fringe

[TSElliott]

23. Don't Forget that Pluto

is experiencing Global Warming too.

[Chico Man]

26. Is the sun experiencing solar warming?

Is that what it would be called? Would solar warming cause global warming? Or solar system warming?

Can people control the weather?

[TSElliott]

29. Who knows?

I don't know about all planets but the planets that are currently affected by Global Warming are the Earth, Pluto and Mars. There were some scientific tests done in 1997 that indicates the Sun is burning .036% hotter than it was in 1986. I would not really worry about this though.

*on Edit added a 0 before the 36 in the percent.

[treepig]

33. sun related effects apparently do occur

from http://www.sepp.org/weekwas/2003/Jul26.htm

3. The Earth's position in the galaxy, not CO2 build-up, is at the root of global warming
By Prof. Tim Patterson, in the National Post (Toronto), July 14, 2003

On July 1, the prestigious Geological Society of America (GSA) released a blockbuster scientific paper that fundamentally challenges the view that carbon dioxide is the principal driver of climate change. Apart from its scientific importance, it has political implications as well, since it pulls the rug out from under the Kyoto accord. Co-authored by University of Ottawa geology professor Dr. Jan Veizer and University of Toronto-trained astrophysicist Dr. Nir J. Shaviv, this study shows that changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), the gas most targeted by Kyoto, has had little effect on Earth's long-term temperature variations compared to natural causes.

my comments - be aware that this study comes from a right-wing type website, and while technically accurate, it is misleading. for example, focus on the 'long-term' trends they mention - upon closer examination they're talking about oscillations on a time scale of 135 million years!


By analyzing the fossilized remains of seashells, Veizer has been able to reconstruct the Earth's temperature record for the past half-billion years, the period during which there have been hard-shelled sea creatures. Surprisingly, this record displays a repeating cycle of temperature increases and decreases every 135 million years, a period that corresponds with no known terrestrial phenomena. Independently, Shaviv had determined galactic cosmic rays striking the Earth have been varying with about the same periodicity over an even longer time frame. Once Veizer and Shaviv made the connection, they wondered whether they were looking at a reflection of some sort of regular celestial phenomenon in the climate history of the Earth.

the bottom line is that these effects probably have nothing to do with the current situation that is measured on tens, hundreds, or at the most, thousands of years.

[Chico Man]

39. Your subject line made me laugh :)

You mean the sun can change the weather? No way!! :D

[treepig]

40. umm, i should probably give up posting for a while

until i can string together a few words in a coherent fashion, ugh.

anyhow, i've historically had a difficult time fathoming the role of the sun and its effects on the earth - i still remember back to grade one or two when i got the true or false question "the sun is always shining" incorrect. isn't it just common sense that the sun isn't shining at night or when it's raining? ok, feel free to disregard anything i've posted pending your own investigation of its veracity!

[Chico Man]

42. Nah, don't do that

I liked your post. Thanks for the link. I'm almost in the 700 club as well..

[Chico Man]

24. blaming a heat spell on global warming is "conjecture"

Just as stating that global warming does not exist because no local temperature increase has been experienced is "conjecture".

[enki23]

28. no

global warming evidence is provided by widespread measurements of *climate* over time.

[T_i_B]

45. Anecdotal evidence is a wonderful thing

and when people see the weather being even odder then is usual for Britain then questions are usually asked. Most people over here are more convinced of global warming by what they see the weather doing on a daily basis than anything else.

[Karenina]

48. This is the hottest, SUNNIEST summer

I've seen in a decade. It is SO UNBEARABLY HOT, I get flashbacks of Texas! This in and of itself would not normally cause alarm, however flying over the Alps in early June and seeing only tiny patches of snow remaining set off sirens and klaxons... :-(

[T_i_B]

50. Europe does have it worse than Britain

Hard to belive at the moment but we are not having droughts, forest fires and all that yet.

SCORCHIO!

[trogdor]

32. We northeasterners also had a cold and snowy winter.

In central NY, it snowed about five inches an hour on Christmas Day.

Ho ho ho. Hope you got plenty of Christmas goodies, because you're snowed in.

[Chico Man]

35. Watch what you say here..

I stated the same thing in another thread a week or so ago and was asked if "I always revel in my ignorance" and was called "uneducated". I've never experienced such a flame attack before.

Just a fore-warning. There are some very aggressive people out there in the global warming camp!

[morstyranni]

49. Those people are idiots

True global warming refers to the slow inching up of long term temperatures in the coldest parts of teh world, which, would have catostrophic effects over the long term, however, just because it is 90 degrees in London doesn't mean that Global Warming has all of a sudden hit. People who subscribe to this philosophy are falling victim to a simple post hoc fallacy, and are using teh same reasoning they attack when somebody points out that Boston had the third coldest winter in history in 2003 therefore Global Warming is a farce. Don't listen to them. All the education they get on teh subject is propaganda. And I will bet some of those annoying meatheads will respond to this post in the same manner so I ma issuing them a pre-emptive Fuck off.

[Chico Man]

51. Thank you

:bounce:

:D

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. There will be isolated "spikes"

in eiher direction, and global warming IS occurring. :hi:

[Chico Man]

54. Sure it is but this article is BS

just as blaming a heat wave on global warming is BS. Just as using a cold spell to disprove global warming is BS.

And we still cannot prove what causes global warming. I'm sure human activites can contribute to a certain degree.

Wow. What progress humans have achieved. We now know how to control the weather.

[morstyranni]

55. Can you tell me where you got the information on isolated spikes?

I would like to read it. I think the idea of isolated spikes is horseshit, however I am not an expert on geophysics (as I assume nobody here is). To say that global warming would cause isolated spikes downward in temperature seems as though people are pre-emptively discounting any coldspell as proof against global warming (note: I don't think they are this). I just think that the prevailing 'wisdom' on global warming as a geological trend is filled with chicken little ideas. How do you define global warming? When did this trend start? How is it caused? These are the fundemental question that need to be asked, and they can't be answered using redundant hegemonic myths and ideas that have exaggerrated the facts into a political movement.
For example, what's the difference with a heatwave taht hit the American Midwest in 1788 and one that hits there in 1999 (remember that one?). Is the heatwave in the 18th century a spike or a heatwave, how about the one in 1999? Are there any heatwaves that are just heatwaves or does every goddamn meteorological event that is outside the norm a sign of some impending environmental disaster?

[treepig]

57. not really an isolated spike

(it might be, i'm not familiar with the exact definition of 'isolated spike') but one consequence of global warming is projected to be localized cooling in europe due to a (partial?) shut down of the gulf stream (hold on guys - help is on the way!)

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20011116meltwater.html

[Chico Man]

58. If northern glacial melting cools the temperature in the n. hemisphere

Would there not be a cancelling effect? Glaciers would melt to a certain point and then start growing once again? I'm certainly no expert.

[treepig]

61. not the entire northern hemisphere, just europe!!

would be affected by this effect (read the article, it's really quite fascinating).

[Chico Man]

62. I did

"The National Science Foundation (NSF) funded study also finds that if a shutdown persisted for a long enough time, the entire Northern Hemisphere would eventually cool."

[treepig]

68. ok, you got me there,

quite frankly, i didnt' read the article i posted carefully (shame, shame on me) - i was mostly going from memory from a much more detailed description of this issue given in the atlantic monthly a few years ago - unfortunately i could not find the article in their archives (does anybody know what article i'm refering to, and have access to it?). if memory serves correctly (ugh) the atlantic article was considerably less upbeat than the nsf study - i suspect that the political pressure was applied to the nsf to put a good face on this aspect of global warming.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. Just looking at statistics there will be inconsistencies and "spikes"

but overall average global temperatures are going up.
It is not fiction that the polar ice shelfs are melting and sliding into the sea. Glaciers all over the globe are receding. The permafrost in Alaska is thawing. Also, hurricanes are becoming both more powerful and more numerous with each season, as the oceans warm and have more energy to release.

[Robin Hood]

34. They said it was the hottest summer in 168 years.

Something is going on. I do believe it's global warning.

[FlaGranny]

38. There is no doubt global warming is happening

right now. Everyone agrees on that. What everyone is disagreeing about is why. Reputable scientists (those without an agenda) say that there are natural causes for this, but there is also little doubt that the industrial revolution has fueled the flame, so, at the very least, humanity is contributing to global warming and hastening its arrival. I'd rather not do that. I expect we'll soon reach a point, if we haven't already, that it will be too late to stave it off.

[morstyranni]

56. You can't stave it off

If it is naturally occuring.

[maggrwaggr]

41. snows of kilimanjaro are soon gone

something the locals have never seen, ever.

But hell, if that permafrost in alaska melts, it'll be that much easier to drill for black gold!

[JCMach1]

43. Also gets rid of those pesky caribou and othe arctic

animals who rely on Tundra as a primary ecosystem... :(

Yeehawww, think I'll go fill-up my Hummer :evilgrin:

[treepig]

44. strangely enough, the oil industry needs the permafrost to be frozen

http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PRT.jsp?articleid=7768

Melting permafrost also means trouble for the oil industry. Oil companies build pipelines and roads on it to support drilling on the North Shore. To minimize damage to Arctic tundra, oil companies explore for oil on Alaska's North Slope only when roads are frozen with a foot of ice and six inches of snow. The ice-road season has dropped from 200 days a year in 1970 to 103 days in 2002, according to Alaska state documents.

frozen permafrost? is that redundant? (note to self - it's really, really time to stop posting!!)

[geomon]

46. I used to respect the Independent...

Their headline shows a profound misunderstanding of the concept of global warming....

Using scattered statistics such as local temps one gets an extreamly skewed picture of longterm global weather patterns.

"Boy it has not broken 95 where I'm at but last year it was 100+...must be a new ice age."

I won't argue the evidence which shows a long term warming trend but this article makes a mockery of the scienceused in the study of global warming.

[schultzee]

47. Yeah, but our great C brain says its not good science. Its his

brain that has been baked with alcohol and drugs.

[bikebloke]

59. Speculation on warming acceleration

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weather/Story/0,2763,1013123,00.html

One of Europe's leading scientists yesterday raised the possibility that the extreme heatwave now settled over at least
30 countries in the northern hemisphere could signal that man-made climate change is accelerating.

...snip...



I hope I linked this correctly.

[Chico Man]

60. Thats such BS

Propaganda at its finest. This would make the Bush admin proud.

[chomskyite2]

63. this is not global warming

global warming is only causing a slight change measured in single degrees. it is not causing 10-20 degree farenheit raises.

the slight change that it is causing is DEVASTATING, but these hot summers are not because of gw.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

65. Yeah, it's just England's "bad luck"

:eyes:

[Chico Man]

66. No, its just a heat wave

B-)

[chomskyite2]

67. exactly

there has been a rise in temp due to warming but this is a heat wave.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

69. a heat wave that happens to be the hottest on record

get a clue!

[Chico Man]

70. Your subject is based on fact

Making the next connection to global warming may take some heavy doses of Ritalin.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

71. you are in denial

I can do nothing for you.

[Chico Man]

72. I could say the same for you. Now lets end this flame fest

Before we drastically alter the temperature of the earth and give Europe a record breaking heat wave.

When was the record last broken in Europe? 1990? What caused that heat wave?

[chomskyite2]

73. the unusually high temps are just an anomaly

and not a sign of warming. real global warming only occurs degrees at a time, and is still a HUGE problem. but the fact is you cant blame this on it.

If there is one unusually cold summer you will not want big business to say "oh, its 5 degrees colder this year than last year. looks like global warming is a hippie fallacy". You would likely say that it was an anomaly, it was a chance occurence. You would be right.

You really cant play ONE hot summer off as global warming. Global warming happens over long periods of time, not months. I believe global warming exists and is a huge problem but please dont embarass progressives by playing this one summer off as global warming.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

74. It's like you 2 aren't paying attention

all the hottest summers EVER have been occuring in recent years.
Should we talk about the ozone hole? Man IS having an effect on the planet. The evidence is there. The evidence is irrefutable. I'm done here today on this thread. :hi:

[chomskyite2]

75. i know its having an effect

but this is just one summer, and there is no way a 20 degree rise is gw.

no one ever said the global warming was not occuring, im just saying you can't base claims on one summer which can be an anomaly. A rise like this is just chance and not gw anyway.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

78. The Lord has spoken directly to George W. Bush...

and he said that this is his will. So there you have it!


hahahahaha!.


:dem:

[Undemcided]

80. It's a disaster!

Spoke to my Mum on Sunday and she told me the local boozers have been running out of beer! :beer: