Family shot dead by panicking US troops

[DoYouEverWonder]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=432202

9 August 2003 19:57

Firing blindly during a power cut, soldiers kill a father and three children in their car
By Justin Huggler in Baghdad

10 August 2003

The abd al-Kerim family didn't have a chance. American soldiers opened fire on their car with no warning and at close quarters. They killed the father and three of the children, one of them only eight years old. Now only the mother, Anwar, and a 13-year-old daughter are alive to tell how the bullets tore through the windscreen and how they screamed for the Americans to stop.

"We never did anything to the Americans and they just killed us," the heavily pregnant Ms abd al-Kerim said. "We were calling out to them 'Stop, stop, we are a family', but they kept on shooting."

The story of how Adel abd al-Kerim and three of his children were killed emerged yesterday, exactly 100 days after President George Bush declared the war in Iraq was over. In Washington yesterday, Mr Bush declared in a radio address: "Life is returning to normal for the Iraqi people ... All Americans can be proud of what our military and provisional authorities have achieved in Iraq."

more...

[sujan]

1. 3 cheers for liberation

:eyes:

Bush is indeed making progress. Progress in killing more muslims.

[jamesinca]

2. I thought we went over there to free them from this

Mr Bush declared in a radio address: "Life is returning to normal for the Iraqi people ... All Americans can be proud of what our military and provisional authorities have achieved in Iraq."


Should we really be proud of this?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Even Saddam wasn't this bad.

How many more war crimes does W have to commit, before America wakes up and kicks his butt out of the WH?

[sattahipdeep]

57. Anyone else see anything wrong with this picture?

A British soldier (C) and an Iraqi civilian intervene after a
soldier (R) violently apprehended a youth (on ground) during
clashes in the southern city of Basra over fuel shortages and
lack of electricity.(AFP/Ahmad Al-Rubaye)

Ironic isn't it?

[LiberalFighter]

65. I am disappointed with our troops!!

I know that not all of them are guilty of these actions.

How are these soldiers acting? Does it resemble the Nazis when they were searching out their own people, the Jews and others?

A parade for these troops should be out of the question when they return.

The killing of Saddam sons was inexcusable. But apparently it was not important to find out what information they might have. It couldn't have been too difficult to surround the house and use law enforcement tactics to bring them out without killing them. Hmmm... tear gas, loud music, bright lights 24/7, eliminate all exits from the upstairs hideout, cut off water supply or drug it. I am sure that there might be other more effective ways.

On another note.. watching the History Channel. They covered the POW's kept in the US during WWII. How they were treated and the reunion between POW's and guards about 40 years later. The POW's were treated much better than *bush is doing. This was the time of rations for the American people but POW's were fed the same as American soldiers. I don't know how that can be since I would think our soldiers wouldn't have access to what the German POW's ate and enjoyed.

[LiberalFighter]

64. He wants to do better than when he was Governor

As Governor he gloated with glee with the executions of death row inmates.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

74. That Is an Ignorant Statement

"Even Saddam wasn't this bad."

Dude, this incident was totally, completely, un-fucking-acceptable, and our unjust occupation is growing increasingly reprehensible.

But please do not wax nostalgic for the days of Saddam. That asshole gassed his own citizens and murdered truckloads.

DTH

[Twenty3]

20. 'returning to normal'

This is what normal IS now for the Iraqi people.

[Sheet22]

53. I'm getting just plain scared.

How much longer can this horror go on?

[Palacsinta]

3. I think we ought to go on our knees......

to the UN and BEG for help. Those poor people. What have we done?.............I am so afraid that we will pay with our children's blood.

[ex_jew]

6. Why shouldn't we pay with our childrens' blood ?

(if not our own). Justice requires that many, MANY stupid Americans die for the crimes their country has committed against humanity. We deserve it. I say bring it on.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

39. Because it would never end there.

Someone would retaliate, and someone else would retaliate for that. The only way we can have peace is for people to evolve beyond war and these acts of atrocity.

The world must stop viewing the current violence as "us vs. them" or "them vs. them".

It's people vs people. We're all perpetrators, and we're all victims.

[ex_jew]

47. So you expect the Muslims to just take our abuse and do

nothing ? We seem to expect them to solve our nationality problem (referring to the Jews) our energy problem and now our terrorism problem. Why should they ? We're the ones who have been riding high for hundreds of years. We in the West should get a good shellacking and then WE can magnanimously agree not to retaliate.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

50. Certainly not...The abuse must stop. Period.

The game you describe is the same one that's been played out for centuries by Moslems, Jews, Protestants, Catholics, etc ad nauseum.

It's time to evolve...stop separating ourselves from our perceived enemies and change regardless of the violence which is going to continue to occur until humane intelligence wins out over ignorance.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

51. let the evolution begin! -it is long overdue

We all need to wake up !
This violence and murder is wrong.
We are supposed to be civilized?
Get our troops out NOW.
!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

77. What a GREAT battle cry!

I love it!

Evolution NOW! :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

76. Huh? Jews Are "Our Nationality Problem"?

WTF does that mean?

DTH

[DoveTurnedHawk]

75. Sounds Like You're Calling for the Death of Americans

And that's pretty fucked up, "ex_jew."

Lay responsibility for this where it belongs, at the feet of George W. Bush.

DTH

[DagmarK]

9. the UN is our only salvation at this point.........

and we do need to go there, on our knees.....begging, pleading for some serious oversight......

One other big difference between Saddam and the bush occupation is..... AT LEAST saddam's goons spoke the language. You think those american soldiers had even a CLUE what that family was saying?????

It's a blood-bath over there........a total nightmare...

[LiberalFighter]

66. After...

Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, and others are executed. That would be the only way to prove our sincerity.

[RapidCreek]

70. Our only salvation

Is to try the war criminals in this country and Britain....and hand those found guilty over to the Iraqi's to do with as they see fit.

RC

[lazarus]

5. Let's support the troops

After all...

"Doctors said the father and his two daughters would have survived if they had received treatment quicker. Instead, they were left to bleed to death because the Americans refused to allow anyone to take them to hospital."

[FubarFly]

23. Let's support the troops who manage to retain their humanity

in this godawful nightmare. I mourn the rest. They may someday physically come home, but they'll never truly leave Iraq. These men and women will soon become our homeless, our criminals, our drug addicts, our spousal abusers, and our institutionalized. The scars that result from this war will plague our country for generations. And the galling truth is, none of this had to happen. The "majority" who supported this war deserve exactly what they get. The remainder of us I feel genuinely sorry for; we're the ones who will ultimately have to deal with this tragedy.

:grr:

[bpilgrim]

27. who gave orders to let them bleed to death

:wow:

not sure how many hearts and minds we won today :'(

peace

[acmavm]

7. I support our troops and I understand that they want to get out of Iraq

alive, but this situation is, for lack of a better term, ridiculous. So they are so afraid that they will be killed that they shoot blindly at cars with families in them?

Oh yeah George, sounds real stable to me. And getting better every day.

But why is it we keep hearing reports of the troops not letting these people obtain medical treatment for their injuries? There have been many articles that said that if they would have gotten medical help immediately, a lot of the victims of these kinds of shootings would have lived. What the hell is the deal? How much of a threat can someone be if they are bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound? Especially if that person is a child? This is the part that no matter how anyone tries to rationalize or justify, I will NEVER understand.

[DagmarK]

12. The US troops have to SECURE the gun battle site......

(translation: REMOVE evidence of what happened and how it happened.....move bodies around.. basically try to make it NOT look like what it is: US troops going ape-shit with guns and slaughtering people).

To get these people medical help......you have to let other people in to get the wounded out. Pictures get taken. People observe the scene.

It's all C.Y.A. all the way in the U.S. of A.

[Zero Gravitas]

15. ICC

THis is why Bush* doesn't want us in the International Criminal Court, it is tragic when civilians get caught up like this, I doubt they were deliberately trageted, but refusing them medical care afterwards is a war crime, plain and simple.

[Wonder]

8. I wonder if this will be another way to classify collatoral damage

"murder by panicking" It seems just the word alone pulls with it justification in and of itself. We certainly can understand panic. Within this liberation, panic could even become endemic or intrinsic to the liberation itself... right up there with "friendly fire" and "collatoral damage": "massacre by panicking"

[Wonder]

10. BRING OUR BOYS HOME!!

AN AFTERTHOUGHT.

POST TRAUMA HAS PROBABLY SET IN FOR SOME ALREADY AS WELL. BRING OUR BOYS HOME!!!

[DagmarK]

13. I am done with the mantra Bring our Troops Home!

At this point.....I don't give a rat's arse what happens to them.

My new mantra is: Get our troops away from the Iraqis by bringing them home.

The iraqis didn't sign up for this. And our troops...I don't blame them individually; they are battle fatigued and just can't keep their heads, obviously.

[bluestateguy]

11. Well...

Even if this was an accident, I doubt that explanation will satisfy the locals who will be looking for revenge.

It's not fun to say "I told you so", but I will.

[Guaranteed]

58. "I told you so!" is great fun, actually...

When the Niners beat the Packers.
But hearing these stories all the time just makes me sick.

[fishnfla]

14. What a clusterfuck

Life is returning to normal, my ass. These people never had a decent chance. Being blowed up by US forces is probably normal them.

[PartyPooper]

16. More war crimes!

<"Doctors said the father and his two daughters would have survived if they had received treatment quicker. Instead, they were left to bleed to death because the Americans refused to allow anyone to take them to hospital.">

And, according to the article, "the son, 18, was already dead, shot between the eyes."

This is sickening! And, I am so appalled and angry that these atrocities are not being reported in the U.S. "mainstream" press!

I wonder if these soldiers will be court martialed? Will Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, et. al. ever be tried for these war crimes?

[LiberalFighter]

67. What are the odds?

Of someone being shot between the eyes when the shots are random?

[PartyPooper]

78. Yours is one of the best posts on this thread!

IMO, it should have it's own thread discussion. You raised a big question that deserves answers!

Thank you, for your astuteness!

[fizzana]

17. Why do we have to read the international press to find out

about stories like this?

For the sarcastically challenged, this is a rhetorical question.

[Robin Hood]

18. Ohhh, I'm so proud that we killed another Iraqi family

I feel good about my self. George Bush gets my tiny American pecker rock hard. Thank you George.

[liberalmuse]

19. I Blame Bush for every atrocity that occurs in Iraq.

Stories like these are why us commie liberals who 'hate' America took to the streets in protest of this godforsaken slaughter. The Iraqi people are still being raped/pillaged/murdered by Bush, and our soldiers, whom he is using as pawns to try and save his miserable joke of a 'presidency', are going to have some major problems when (IF) they return. This is Viet Nam all over again. The military does not train our soldiers how to be good occupation troops. It trains them to shoot targets. They don't have any manuals on 'Keeping a Cool Head During War: How to Avoid Slaughtering Innocent Civilians and Your Fellow Soldiers'. Bush deserves 100% of the blame because he created this situation.

IMHO, ANYONE who supports this war has is guilty of 1st degree murder. We didn't buy it when Germans claimed they were ignorant of Hitler's crimes because all the evidence says that they should've known. The unspeakable atrocities being committed in our name against the Iraqi people must be stopped. It's time to take to the streets again.

Bush should be tried for the crimes against humanity and given the opportunity to experience his own death machine in Texas first hand.

[qanda]

21. I hope you will take time to read this entire story...

It is probably one of the saddest things I've heard in a long time. Those people deserve to live and die better than that-- shame on America!

[Robin Hood]

22. You should have heard NPR the other day.

When American soldiers killed two young boys, they were shot in the head. In the background you could hear the mother wailing. The interpreter said that she was yelling " The Americans killed my children, The Americans killed my children". I cried and was a wreck for hours afterwards. Her wails of grief are still haunting me.

The TV media did not even report it. They just reported our casualties, but not theirs. We need to let America know what we are doing to these people. But What's a few dead iraqi's to Americans? They didn't seem to mind killing 3 million Vietnamese.

I feel sick, again..

[Dem2dend]

24. A simple Google search on the author

turns up tons of stories that I've never read from the main stream press.
His stories are very anti-American and Israel.
I have the feeling that if this story was true we certainly would have heard of it from CNN, this is front page news.
Check some of his stories for yourself and see what I mean.

This story makes our troops seem like bumbling morons shooting haphazardly at anything and everything. Until I hear this from a few more sources I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Did you see the incident described in post 22 above

reported on CNN?

Why do you expect the Corporate Propaganda Machine to tell you anything resembling uncomfortable truths?

[Judi Lynn]

43. You're right about that.

It looks as if some of the "Democrats" posting here haven't paid any attention to the content of CNN for the last couple of years.

Tons of other people have been painfully aware of CNN's slavish groveling to the White House and horrendously slanted news, to the point of hidous absurdity.

They threw away their prime time, one hour slot of Crossfire, which moderates and liberal folks loved, because the Conservatives recognize they don't do well in formats like that one, and started pitching fits.

In case they don't believe what most of us knew a long time ago, here's a news article coverning the appalling pilgrimage CNN's Walter Isaacson undertook to throw himself at the feet of Washington conservatives, and get in their good graces:

(snip) August 15, 2001

Early this month, new CNN chairman Walter Isaacson met with top Republican lawmakers in Washington, D.C. to discuss how to improve relations between the cable news network and conservative Republicans.

According to a report in Roll Call magazine (8/6/01), Isaacson met with Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.), House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), Rep. J.C. Watts (R- Okla.), Rep. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.). Isaacson also intends to meet with House Whip Tom DeLay (R.-Texas), who has ridiculed CNN as the "Clinton News Network" and the "Communist News Network," and has suggested a conservative boycott of the channel. Isaacson also sought meetings with White House officials.

While Isaacson claims he "definitely did not say, 'How do we attract the conservative viewer?,'" his account suggests that concerns about CNN's alleged bias against conservatives were preeminent: "I was trying to reach out to a lot of Republicans who feel that CNN has not been as open to covering Republicans, and I wanted to hear their concerns" (Roll Call, 8/6/01). One GOP aide told Roll Call that Isaacson "said, 'Give us some guidance on how to attract conservatives.' He said he 'wanted to change the culture' at CNN" (Roll Call, 8/6/01). (snip/...)

http://www.fair.org/activism/cnn-gop.html

Another article:

(snip).....Hoping to garner right-leaning viewers, CNN has turned to the right. Their new strategy includes:

a. Routinely host far-right conservatives such as Reverend Jerry Falwell, infamous for calling Islam's Prophet a terrorist and blaming the 9-11 tragedies on 'the gays of America';

b. Routinely host anti-Arab and anti-Muslim pundits such as Frank Gaffney, Richard Perle, Jonah Goldberg, and Thomas Friedman;

c. Have Christiane Amanpour belligerently question Hans Blix (amidst calling him incompetent and clumsy); Blix has come under attack in U.S. media and by U.S. Congressional leaders;

d. Have Connie Chung make malicious accusations while interrogating former Saudi Intelligence head Prince Turki; Saudi Arabia has become the new punching bag;

e. Ridicule Iraqi leaders, giving prominence to such stories as "Saddam likes to be kissed on his armpits";

f. Savagely criticize the FBI's report on a 2000 percent jump in racially-motivated attacks against Muslims and Arabs in 2001. On Sunday, December 1, Kate O'Beirne effectively told American Muslims to quit whining about hate crimes committed against them in the wake of 9-11. She claimed that the rise was from a "measly 28 to 486" attacks. O'Beirne's outburst is deplorable: she needs to be reminded that thousands of American Muslims feared coming to the FBI or contacting local authorities. Instead, she asked, "What about the thousands of attacks against Jews?" Jews? Where? Where were thousands of Jews attacked? In the U.S.? Or is she misinforming her viewing audience by referring to attacks on Israelis in Israel and Palestine? Incidentally, O'Beirne is editor of National Review and previously a vice president of the Heritage Foundation, both of whom call for an attack on Iraq without U.N. approval, and the expulsion (alias for killing) of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat;

g. Confuse the issues on CNN.com by creating headlines such as "Ramadan Threat" (December 5, 2002) so that the uninformed viewers make the connection between the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and terrorism. Subtle, yet effective, hate mongering. The issue at hand involves al Qaeda issuing a threat to inflict some terrorist attack during the Eid-ul-Fitr Ramadan Feast. Calling it a "Ramadan Threat" infers that all of Islam and all Muslims are making the terrorist threat. (snip/...)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0212/S00124.htm

Tons of information on CNN's hard plunge to the right on the internet, for those who can't recognize it.

[mhr]

26. Dem2dend

I think we need to check your credibility.

If you had followed the war closely you would know that the most credible reporting about *'s invasion came from The Guardian and Independent.

Your comment is disruptive and misplaced.

Might it be that US troops are poorly trained for urban warfare and in fact are poorly disciplined?

[Dem2dend]

30. Okay

our troops are poorly trained, disciplined and they are wiping out entire families. There are but two newspapers, both overseas which are savy enough to report it.

AND I'm disruptive for even questioning that logic.
I think it's time we started war crime trials.

[sujan]

33. ok

all those 7700 or so killed in iraq were all terrorists. Bush told me so.

happy?


:eyes:

[FubarFly]

34. There are plenty of overseas newspapers that are reporting the truth

The American mainstream media however, has been decidedly pro-American.
Me, I'll always be pro-America. However one of the American values which I hold dearly, is our ability to put our self-interests aside and objectively seek the truth. Our Founding Fathers accomplished this marvelously- the result of their work was the US Constitution. I miss the Fourth Estate. I think it is a shame that Rupert Murdoch has more influence on America than most actual Americans do.

[scarletwoman]

28. The Independent is a venerable and respected mainstream British newspaper

THAT confers considerable credibility to this writer in and of itself.

Don't hold your breath waiting for CNN to report the truth -- I would hope that you aren't THAT naive.

sw

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. A simple google search

Indicates that Mr. Huggler is a well respected journalist, who has investigated civilian casualties in Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq, just to mention a few of the places, that he has put himself at great personal risk, in order to get and to tell these stories, that the CIA controlled media would prefer to ignore.

[Robin Hood]

31. NPR must have paid that woman to wail.

Since no other news media reported the deaths of those two boys yesterday. She sounded so real when she wailed her emotions about losing "her two young boys". I'm so relieved to know that it was all an act... Phewww.


get real man!!!

[Cheswick2.0]

32. are you out of your mind?

I have the feeling that if this story was true we certainly would have heard of it from CNN, <-------- ROFL

This is only the 2nd post I have read of yours and I don't think you will be around long. All troops are bumbling idiots when they are sitting ducks in an unjust war.

Blood for oil, that's all this is and we are just fine whether it is iraqi or american blood, as long as our gas is cheaper.

[Zero Gravitas]

35. Credibility

Just because you find his stories to be "anti-American" does not mean that either he or his stories are not legitimate. This is not propaganda, just a point of view that is not often represented in the main stream US media. The clearest reporting of any given country often comes from outside that country. THe USA under the Bush* Regime is certainly no different.

There are many things that are not reported on CNN, it doesn't mean that they didn't happen, it just means that they are not the sort of thing theat Corporate America wants to emphasize.

[fizzana]

36. Please

The media here walk on eggshells. If they go too far they'll immediately be branded as traitors and worse.

A couple of weeks ago anywhere from 5-11 people were killed by American troops in an upscale suburb of Baghdad when troops throught they knew where Saddam or some of his bodyguards were. The troops set up roadblocks at both ends of the street but neglected to set up roadblocks on a couple of alleys leading into the street.

As a result they shot up about 3 cars that drove into the street. This was reported in detail by the international press. In the U.S. the incident was mentioned but it was never more than a single paragraph buried deep in a story. (The NY Times, LA Times & the wash. Post all covered the story in this manner.)

Part of the difference, I believe is that foreign reporters are prepared to actually get off their butts and go out and do some reporting. I see very little evidence of that in the U.S. media.

[Robin Hood]

37. Also, foreign reporters don't have to answer to the BFEE

and the corporate controled American media.

[NNN0LHI]

38. US reporters consider waking up, reading the latest CENTCOM report...

...and reporting on what they just read as reporting the news. Thats a fact.

Don

[Cha]

41. You have got to be kidding! cnn hides the truth from Americans.

Rah Rah and all that. Corporatist cable news in America does not want the truth to be known and just how long they think they can keep up this charade is anyone's guess.

[study_war_no_more]

44. or perhaps scared kids

0r maybe so propagandised they can't imagine foriegn dark skinned human beings as deserving of the same human dignity they always took for granted.

[NNN0LHI]

45. You know over 200 soldiers have died in Iraq

How many flag draped coffins have you seen being off loaded at Dover Air Force Base on CNN? I have not seen one. Not one single report on CNN. But does that mean it is not happening?

Don

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04157983.htm

Dead U.S. soldiers come home to Delaware air base

DOVER AIR FORCE BASE, Del., Aug 7 (Reuters) - When the cargo planes land at this air base on the coast of Delaware, people nearby stand at attention to honor the dead.

Fifty-three soldiers have been killed in guerilla-style attacks in Iraq since President George W. Bush declared an end to major combat there on May 1. Since March 20, when the U.S.-led war on Iraq began, an additional 114 U.S. soldiers have been killed in hostile action.

This quiet base about a mile (1.6 km) inland from Delaware Bay is where all the American soldiers who die in Iraq come home.

Dover Air Force Base has the largest Department of Defense port mortuary and the only one in the United States. Since the Vietnam War, wartime casualties have come through here.

more

[Voltaire99]

48. A simple search, indeed

His stories are very anti-American and Israel.

Good grief. The Independent is one of the better newspapers in English, home to reporters as sharp and knowledgeable as Huggler and Robert Fisk.

You won't find them on CNN, no. If you haven't learned the difference between Pentagon-friendly propaganda and the writing of reporters who think for themselves, then you might try broadening your horizons, my friend. Start here:

www.independent.co.uk
www.guardian.co.uk

[DrBB]

61. Well, Dem2dend certainly had a long run

129 messages--pretty good. I mean there are the disrupters who are simply blatant and never get past 10 or so. Then there are the Sincere Inquirers who are So Concerned that "we"--and god do they love to overuse that disingenuous "we"--might be making a Big Mistake in criticizing Shrump for {fill in the blank}. They often get up into the 20s or 30s--everyone knows exactly what they are, but they can usually hold out that long before saying something completely idiotic. But 129--I was starting to think we might have to put up with having Dem2dend around for the long term. Actually had a few moments when I was sincerely considering the possibility that maybe he wasn't a disruptor, just a dingbat. His posts on the gay bishop issue certainly were suspicious--not that he was agin' it, a number of genuine DUers were on that side, but that he employed the usual evasive tactics of a winger. Straw man arguments, ignoring posts that took apart the factual basis of his assertions, etc. Still, nothing you could quite call him on.

But anyone who can deliver himself of an opinion like "I have the feeling that if this story was true we certainly would have heard of it from CNN"--well, he might not have been a freeper, but that degree of fatuousness is certainly something I can happily do without.

[MisterP]

68. they shield themselves by trumpeting their Democrat-ness,

screaming at dissenters, etc., etc.

[ParanoidPat]

63. Very funny post on a most sickening subject.

I'm sure if the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard then ordered troops into a sovereign nation under false pretenses it would be on the front pages of every paper and even be covered by CNN!

I'm absolutely sure that all of the stories I've seen covered (or covered up as the case may be) at the CENTCOM briefings must have been front page news or at least covered by CNN! I just missed them that's all. :(

I just know that the soldiers that are committing suicide must be getting front page coverage, I just keep missing it! Yeah! That's it!

This story makes our troops seem like bumbling morons shooting haphazardly at anything and everything. Until I hear this from a few more sources I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

Good American! :evilfrown:

[Cha]

40. Bullshit Liar! All bush does is get up and Lie and our feeble

press is to lame to do anything about it. Like a correction or two would be nice.

[osaMABUSh]

42. The US Press Corpse - when will they do their jobs?

If this stuff ever gets reported in the mainstream press Shrub's approval would be in the 30's. And how many people would still say they support the War? Even now I really don't believe the majority of Americans support the War on Iraq.

[Guaranteed]

46. God DAMMIT.

Bush, you're going to hell for this. We WARNED you, you wouldn't listen. You can't plead ignorance....Vietnam was our big wake up call, our Mulligan. But you just didn't learn, did you? WOULDN'T learn. You're more than just a spoiled brat...
What was it in the Bible about camels and needles....?

[atreides1]

55. But We Will All Pay A Price

I agree Bush and his cabal are going to hell, the downside is that the
American people will pay the price before that happens.

[Voltaire99]

49. Atrocity is too high a price to charge for "liberation"

There's no justification for it. The "rules of engagement" are merely the aesthetics of occupation--a mechanism for absolving the troops of murder. As in Conrad the brutes are all to be exterminated, and America is spotless as always.

Bush is teaching the world the very meaning of disgust.

[pinniped]

52. I don't understand.

"Life is returning to normal for the Iraqi people ... All Americans can be proud of what our military and provisional authorities have achieved in Iraq."

I don't see how, every second of the day they can still catch a bullet in their head.

[Q]

54. I'm finally stunned into silence...

...by these atrocities that too many Americans refuse to recognize.

- The American media has become TREASONOUS to the point where they're actually hiding evidence that would be grounds for GWB*'s impeachment.

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. Am I Free Yet?

Click Here For Hard Hitting Buttons — Visit The Cronus Connection

[mainer]

59. Same story now reported on MSNBC

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/ap08-10-113454.asp?reg=MIDEAST

[DrBB]

62. Too bad Dem2dend isn't around

...to respond to this neat and utterly conclusive rebuttal of his brilliant "if it was real it would be on CNN" post. Not that he would have.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

60. Tragic

n/t

[RapidCreek]

69. I just have to wonder

When the brother of this man decides he needs to kill a few Soldiers as payback, will he be a Saddam loyalist?

Why is it the media never asks this simple question? Of the 10 thousand or so Iraqis murdered by our troops...how many had family members or friends who might behave as an American would under similar circumstances? I mean if some fucker in a kevelar suit whose armed to the teeth wasted your family, would you say "oh well, at least we are free now!! I guess we all have to make our little sacrifices. You guys are really swell, keep up the great work". I'd hazard to guess most Americans would not....regardless of their loyalty to the Bush crime family. I'd hazard to guess most Americans would look for payback. I know I sure as hell would. It's time for the boys and girls in Iraq to say enough is enough....fuck this shit we're through....bring us home, cause we ain't gonna murder people for Halliburton anymore and we ain't gonna get our asses blown off for them either. That would take some real bravery.

RC
USN Vet

[sattahipdeep]

71. Bring us home

GIs flood US with war-weary emails

Through emails and chatrooms a picture is emerging of
day-to-day gripes, coupled with ferocious criticism of the way
the war has been handled. They paint a vivid picture of US army
life that is a world away from the sanitised official version.

In a message posted on a website last week, one soldier was
brutally frank. 'Somewhere down the line, we became an
occupation force in Iraqi eyes. We don't feel like heroes any
more,' said Private Isaac Kindblade of the 671st Engineer
Company.

Kindblade said morale was poor, and he attacked the leadership
back home. 'The rules of engagement are crippling. We are
outnumbered. We are exhausted. We are in over our heads. The
President says, "Bring 'em on." The generals say we don't need
more troops. Well, they're not over here,' he wrote.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1015711,00.html

[mainer]

72. This is what David Hackworth warned us about

We can't blame the U.S. soldiers. They're scared young men, who panic and shoot at shadows. And we can't blame the Iraqis, who must somehow go on with their daily lives, and sadly, in the process, get misinterpreted and therefore shot at.

Hackworth said this is the sort of thing that happened in Vietnam all the time. Misunderstandings and scared soldiers lead to dead civilians. Dead civilians lead to angry locals who turn into the enemy. Every day that American troops are in Iraq, more enemies are born.

[DoYouEverWonder]

73. Found this pic of the family

in Yahoo's photo gallery. I guess this story is starting to make to the US press. They are usually at least 2-3 days behind the rest of the world on any story that might make US troops look bad.




Anwaar Kawaz, 36, weeps as her daughter Hadeel, 13, showing wounds in her arm, stands next to her at their home in Baghdad, Iraq on Sunday Aug. 10, 2003. On Aug. 8, Anwaar's husband and three of her children were killed by U.S. forces when an electricity generator blew up and fearing an attack, the soldiers opened fire on the family's car as they were trying to get back home before curfew. Hadeel was injured during the incident.(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)