Third of detainees who died were assaulted

[struggle4progress]

More than a third of the prisoners who died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan were shot, strangled or beaten by U.S. personnel before they died, according to death certificates and a high-ranking U.S. military official.

The military official, who has direct knowledge of ongoing Pentagon investigations of the deaths, said that 15 of 37 prisoners who have died since December 2002 appear to have been killed or put in grave danger by U.S. troops or interrogators. In some cases, the immediate cause of death was listed as a heart attack, but that was in turn caused by a beating.
<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-31-prison-abuse_x.htm

[lapfog_1]

1. We have met the enemy

and he is us.

Walt Kelly

[JSJ]

6. speak...

...for yourself.

[Zhade]

7. Don't you see what has happened?

This torture and abuse is due to the mindset that was cultivated by the White House and the media in the run-up to war - the false idea, the reprehensible lie, that Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

That's why these soldiers are going insane with anger over in Iraq. So many of them believed the lies they were told - that Hussein had something to do with 9/11 (a claim b*sh himself stated he could not make), that he had WMD ready to attack us - that they see the Iraqi people both as enemies and at the same time people the military is supposedly "liberating" (another lie).

Because they were shipped away and their environment is very controlled, it took longer for them to start waking up to the fact that the traitors in the b*sh administration lied them into a war.

From what I've read in reputable sources - the Independent, the Guardian, Der Spiegel, and other non-American media - it seems the soldiers mostly know they were lied to. Some people snap when they reach a painful cognitive dissonance.

These deaths are a direct result of the lies from a gang of unelected crooks and thieves in the White House.

[JSJ]

9. okay...

...but, if they didn't see the lies and crimes surrounding Iraq/Afhanistan, then what kept them from seeing- from the crystal clear vantagepoint of hindsight- the lies and crimes surrounding Vietnam, El Salvador, Guatamala, Chile, Bosnia, Nicaragua, Gulf 1, and Grenada- dishonorable killing actions, one and all... and potential history lessons for those who are most in need of them? Deciding when and where to kill or die seems like a decision requiring a lot more than a recruiter saying how wonderful devoting oneself to the US military is- or whatever it is vets and their supporters tell young people when asked about the realities of killing and dying for the US government.

And besides, where are all the troops who are going insane because they're following orders eminating from unelected crooks and thieves? The only pics I've seen of the troops have them posing, smiles wide, while they're torturing or tormenting Iraqis held without charge. Tell me where the 'insane' troops are hanging, please. Unless you mean they come already mentally unhinged. I'd buy that one.

[Flubadubya]

11. I have a young relative over there....

He says that eight out of ten enlistees over there do not plan to re-enlist. Crazy? No, actually I think they are quite smart!

[keithyboy]

18. Just like the death of Nick Berg

I am sorry, I can't let this die. I believe Nick died in US custody and that video was staged. Just think, why would Al-qaeda make such a video? Who really benefits from it? Certainly no Al-qaeda.

[Just Me]

25. Nick's death,...

,...was a tragedy. I have no doubts about who used his life. I have no doubts about that.

[lapfog_1]

23. I was just pointing out

that the longer we are involved in the war on terror and the war
for oil (Iraq), the more this administration is behaving in the
manner they attribute to the "evildoers". The prisoner torture
scandal (approved all the way to the top, I'm sure), is just the
latest image. We have become just like Saddam (we aren't too far
away now) in our effort to topple him and institute our own
"democratic" government in its place (it can be as democratic
as it wants to be, so long as it never disagrees with policy set
forth from Washington).

We need to remove the root cause of evil, namely GWB and the repugs
that surround him and apologize for him and his mis-administration.
And we should fight the war on terror. Terrorists do exist, and
for whatever reasons they wish to do us harm... we should work to
find them and stop them... while at the same time, remove the reasons
that motivate them and their hatred of us... and, most importantly,
remove the need for us to be Dependant on the land where they
originate and the resources contained therein.

But, so long as * in the pResident, "we have met the enemy, and he is
us".

The point is, if any of us were foolish enough to take a job in Saudi
Arabia right now, for say, Aramco or Halliburton, if we get captured
by radical Islamic terrorists, I don't think telling them that "I
didn't VOTE for Bush, I'm not for his policies, and I'm an agnostic
or atheist... so please let me go" is going to work very well.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Yeah, Walt!

[countmyvote4real]

2. The phrase "serious as a heart attack" comes to mind. eom

[orthogonal]

3. Proud to be an Amerikan

Well, great, the shades of the Einsatzgruppe and the Waffen-SS are having a party in Hell tonight.

[shanti]

4. sanctioned murder

that's what it is....i'm sick of the sugarcoating.

[truthisfreedom]

5. third? how do they get one third from that ratio? 15/37 is over 40%.

why are they pretending with these fake numbers?

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. *ahem* - *cough* - read - it says "more" than a third -

.
.
.

dincha get the memo on the new amerikkanese language?

it's sorta like is the cup half full or half empty -

and it DOES sound better to say more than a 1/3, than under 2/3

right? :shrug:

and they are right -

even 50% is "more" than a third - - :evilgrin:

[Art_from_Ark]

10. So how did the others die?

Were they all old men who were already teetering on the brink of death?

Enquiring minds want to know!

[Judi Lynn]

13. It sounds as if they are having to get creative in writing up

the causes of death. How do you really explain beating a man so wildly that he developes blood clots in his legs which finally cause a heart attack?

Are we to imagine the remaining dead prisoners/detainees/bystanders were unbelievably old, or suffering from terminal illness when they were grabbed? What ARE the chances they just faded away in our care?

On edit: Sorry, Art_fromArk, just read your post, didn't mean to mimic you. I posted before I got to the end of the thread, and saw yours.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. Ah, but you added the "meat" to my "bones",

so to speak.

Besides, you know what they say about great minds :D

[markses]

16. Grizzled NCOs develop more subtlety than medieval Aristotelians

What with the efficient cause, and the formal cause, and the final cause and the material cause, how can one ever really know whop di what to whom? Oh, so complicated! :eyes:

[yardwork]

27. As a reference point....

there was a murder in my city in which a man beat his girlfriend over the course of twelve hours. Her body became so bruised that her tissues broke down and eventually suffocated her by clogging her bloodstream.

He was convicted of first degree murder by torture, and sentenced to death.

Did I mention that my city is in the south, a red state? Yes, the same state in which a majority of people voted for the Chimp and will probably do so again, recognizes murder and torture when it shows up in their own backyard.

[markses]

15. In other words, US personnel MURDERED them

What is this "person who died was assaulted" nonsense?

[saigon68]

21. MURDERED JUMPS TO MIND

So does Torture, War Crimes and Mayhem.

There are a lot of Bums and Bullies posing as soldiers.

OK Troop apologists " BRING IT ON" !!!!

[enough]

17. Satan's frat house. (nt)

[Neecy]

19. good god

In some cases, the immediate cause of death was listed as a heart attack, but that was in turn caused by a beating.

Just like the Nazis listed thousands of 'heart attack' victims daily in Auschwitz. Of course, they didn't mention the poison gas that caused the hearts to stop.

This is what we've come to.

[Just Me]

20. Trickle-down cold-blooded heartlessness seems to flow,...

,...more quickly than trickle down economics.

I still find it incredibly difficult to even figure how any human being can engage in such evil acts. There are clearly different, oh, I don't know what to call it,...perhaps, realms of reality and/or perception and/or persuasion which exist simultaneously within the USA. I feel like a total alien to those realms which maintain such cruel undertones.

Obviously, we still have a long ways to go in terms of evolving as a civilized species.

[saigon68]

22. THE CHIMPANZEE NEEDS VIOLENCE

To obtain arousal---Read a DSM it characterizes this type of sick individual.

[Just Me]

24. I have studied DSM-IV,...

,...and I find it repulsive that so many narcissitic socio-paths are loose (in addition to a JD, I have earned masters credits in psychology). Being well-educated and knowledgeable brings no comfort to me,...in these times.

[progressivebydesign]

26. 1/3???

I am to believe that the other 2/3 happen to die of natural causes during their incarceration? Bullshit. If that were the case, we wouldn't have so many people in prison right now.. the majority would die within a few months of arriving. To the media and the investigators I say this (and I quote George W. Bush speaking to Richard Clarke), "Nice try, wrong answer!".

[struggle4progress]

28. Nah. They probably committed suicide like that legendary Texan ...

who escaped from jail in the middle of the night, shot himself 27 times, tied himself up, hanged himself from the railroad trestle, and then leapt into the river below and drowned.