Pentagon Can't Seem to Kill Idea of Draft

[maddezmom]

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - No matter what the Pentagon (news - web sites) says, the idea of restarting the military draft never seems to go away.


Defense officials say they don't want it. And polls show the American public doesn't either. So why do lawmakers keep suggesting that conscription be reconsidered?


~snip~

Analysts say there are two main reasons the idea keeps coming back. One is that even with its 1.4 million active-duty volunteers and thousands more reservists, the United States seems to have too few troops for the wars it is fighting.


The other is a kind of guilt that the cost of the wars is being paid by very few Americans, analysts said.


The war in Iraq, coming on top of the global war on terrorism, has caused unprecedented strain on U.S. armed forces. The Defense Department has stopped thousands of soldiers from leaving when their enlistment times were up, made some stay longer in Iraq than the promised year, made unprecedented use of the National Guard and Reserve forces and is bringing troops from Korea for the first time in decades as it struggles to maintain more than 138,000 in Iraq.

~snip~

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&ncid=693&e=7&u=/ap/20040601/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_draft

[saigon68]

1. A very Bad idea for the children of Amerika

No matter what Rangel says--- only the Poor and slow witted will be drafted.

The rich----- like in the Civil War--------- will purchase substitutes

http://www.civilwarhome.com/conscription.htm


But compulsory service embittered the public, who considered it an infringement on individual free will and personal liberty and feared it would concentrate arbitrary power in the military. Believing with some justification that unwilling soldiers made poor fighting men, volunteer soldiers despised conscripts. Conscription also undercut morale, as soldiers complained that it compromised voluntary enlistments and appeared as an act of desperation in the face of repeated military defeats.
Conscription nurtured substitutes, bounty-jumping, and desertion. Charges of class discrimination were leveled against both Confederate and Union draft laws since exemption and commutation clauses allowed propertied men to avoid service, thus laying the burden on immigrants and men with few resources. Occupational, only-son, and medical exemptions created many loopholes in the laws. Doctors certified healthy men unfit for duty, while some physically or mentally deficient conscripts went to the front after sham examinations. Enforcement presented obstacles of its own; many conscripts simply failed to report for duty. Several states challenged the draft's legality, trying to block it and arguing over the quota system. Unpopular, unwieldy, and unfair, conscription raised more discontent than soldiers.
Under the Union draft act men faced the possibility of conscription in July 1863 and in Mar., July, and Dec. 1864. Draft riots ensued, notably in New York in 1863. Of the 249,259 18-to-35-year-old men whose names were drawn, only about 6% served, the rest paying commutation or hiring a substitute.

[PaDUer]

24. Santorum's response to the draft..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1699526

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. Who got us into the current set of wars, and what is it that they....

...didn't understand about:

*fabricating the reasons for going to war?

*getting into more than one war at a time?

*building consensus with a coalition consisting of a large number of willing participants?

*using an all-volunteer force of limited size in combat and/or hostile occupations lasting more than a few months?

*using very large numbers of National Guard troops in combat and/or hostile occupations for which they are ill-prepared?

*creating such an hostile international environment that another act of terrorism is all but guaranteed?

I could go on, but I have to go to work so that I, too, can thrive on the booming economy brought to us by the same set of idiots that got us into those wars in the Middle East.

[ugarte]

3. Agree, a very bad idea

and there is no such thing as an equitable draft. No matter what, rich people will never be cannon fodder.

[union_maid]

4. The draft is a bad idea

I understand the thinking of people like Rangel. It makes sense in a way and of course, this whole war probably never would have gotten off the ground if there had been a draft. That doesn't make it right. Conscription sucks. And I know people who signed up because they had few other options, I guess. I know more who did have options but didn't care to exercise them. Most of my kids' friends who joined the service came from families that weren't affluent but were much more financially solid than we were and my kids didn't join. Those kids could easily have afforded to attend commuter colleges that are right here. Most could have managed a state school out of town as well. They didn't want to and they preferred the service. That's their right and I'm just as distraught to think that they could be killed in this mess as if they were draftees, but at least they were excercising free will in signing up.

Also, just because you're in the service doesn't make you cannon fodder. The rich and influential will always be as safe as they want to be, in or out of the service.

[AndyTiedye]

21. What if they held a war and nobody came?

> this whole war probably never would have gotten off the ground if there had been a draft.

If there had been a draft, we'd be in Iran and Syria already, at least.
The only thing holding back the Crusade is a lack of troops.

It seems as if the ones there now are there "for the duration",
though they haven't uttered those words yet.
There aren't many more left where they came from.

What was supposed to be a troop rotation turned into a long-term increase,
just as we knew it would, and they are scrambling for more cannon fodder.

[BiggJawn]

5. Uh, maybe because we're spread kinda THIN?

Heard on the radio last night that the weekend's storm caused West Virginia to call out their National Guard, and my girlfriend said "What, the three of them that aren't in Iraq?"

And when is Kim-of-The-HAIR gonna throw a tantrum over losing 12,500 of his boogeymen south of the border in Korea?

THAT is why the "rumours of the Draft" won't go away. Any person who does NOT have their head up their ASS (and this lets out everyone in the Bush mis-administration) can see that we don't have enough people under arms.

[ugarte]

8. If we didn't invade other countries

we wouldn't be having this discussion. Two years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion. Only because of a handful of far-right Republicans who decided to start a war are we having this discussion today.

Undoubtedly, the only thing stopping Bush from invading Syria or Iran is a shortage of troops. So I suppose 'not having enough people under arms' has its good points.

[BiggJawn]

10. Thats a given.

"IF" we didn't invade other countries...

Well, we DID, and we didn't do jack-shit to increase the manpower over levels when we weren't invading other countries.

Big Dumb Mistake.

Yeah, being spread too thin does have it's upside. If things had folowed the PNAC timeline, we could have left 10,000 in Iraq and went chasing "WMD" across the border into Syria...And them into Jordan to capture Saddam's daughters as a special "toy" for Rumsferatu....

[TahitiNut]

6. Let George do it.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. it's either or

Either you want big, massive anti-war protests that stop cities in their tracks and get college campuses activated again.

Or

You continue the status quo in an all volunteer armed forces.

Can't have both. Won't have both.

[TahitiNut]

12. Universal National Service is called for.

DUers seem to agree since more than 90% said that no People could maintain or preserve a democracy without personally serving to protect and achieve it.

[AndyTiedye]

25. "Universal National Service" would be used for union-busting

Nobody seems to think about the workers who would be displaced by any kind of
universal national service program, or how the threat of such displacement could
be used by an administration like this one.

This would be the ultimate cheap labor, and they don't even have to send overseas for it.

Not to mention that if the demands of the military increase, you might not be able to
get a civilian assignment at all unless you have connections, in which case it's
Onward Christian Soldiers! :mad:

[bemildred]

9. "Lawmakers" need to be unelected in large numbers.

Perhaps that will help them adjust to the idea.

[CharlesGroce]

11. analysts huh?

Enacting a draft because of guilt doesn't make any sense. The only thing a draft would ensure is that the poorest Americans pay the ultimate price for the games of corporate profiteers.

[catmandu57]

13. We've been right about everything

so far. We've been saying a draft is coming, it doesn't take an abacus to figure out, it's only a matter of time if we stay on this course.

[luaneryder]

15. Of course there will be a draft

pending bills, Senate 89 and House of Representatives 163, are just waiting to be enacted as law as early as next spring. Someone earlier said that a few years ago this discussion would not even be taking place and they are soooo right. Bu$hco has gotten us in so far over our heads that there aren't enough troops to cover all the bases. I've been writing editorials like crazy about this since it never seems to come out in mainstream media BEFORE the election. People in the backwoods like where I live need to open their damn eyes and see that their God appointed president will be coming after their babies next. As long as it's someone else's child dying they're fine with war. It's gonna come home to them now and the hue and cry will be deafening.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi luaneryder!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sidpleasant]

14. We already have a draft

Calling up tens of thousands of National Guardsmen and Army Reservists - civilians who spend less than 6 weeks a year on their military obligation - and recalling recently discharged soldiers amounts to a draft, as Senator Kerry recently observed.

[w4rma]

16. Yup. That is a military draft, imho. (nt)

[No Passaran]

17. Just wait..

If Bush gets re-elected, there will be one. He won't care, it's his second term.

[yellowcanine]

18. Maybe the fact that the Selective Service System has been advertising for

volunteers to staff local draft boards has something to do with it.

[Just Me]

20. Staffing local draft boards has EVERYTHING to do with it.

And it is freakin' outrageous that the Pentagon and DoD are, once again, totally deceiving the American public about their "contingency" plans.

As much as I truly embrace Rangel,...and, as much as I would encourage a "civil service" mandate upon all but those who are already serving citizens (no exceptions) I totally oppose his suggestion of conscription because it essentially plays into a perpetual war with which I completely disagree and forces me to choose whether to remain in this country or leave for the sake of my only son.

I have never felt so frustrated or conflicted about being an American.

[Emboldened Chimp]

19. Feeling guilty, eh?

Instead of sharing the responsibility, how about not starting any more fucking wars? Ever think of that, lawmakers? No, of course not.

[74dodgedart]

22. BushCo leaving no child behind..

Everyone will get a chance for a field trip to Iraq..

[Junkdrawer]

23. Shhh..don't scare the electorate until AFTER Bush steals another term...

if Bush is 50 points behind in the polls, no one will believe it when he steals it.

[pinniped]

26. People may sign up in droves if * sets up a(nother) or lets an attack...

occur.