Play it straight, says Clinton as he joins battle for California

[T_i_B]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/10/wcalif10.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/08/10/ixportal.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=51132

Faced with Arnold Schwarzenegger's relentless drive towards political office, California's beleaguered governor Gray Davis has turned to perhaps the only man in America who can save his skin.

His old friend, Bill Clinton, has taken a hands-on role in the Democratic governor's campaign to avoid the electoral recall that could see his job handed to Schwarzenegger in October. According to close aides of Mr Davis, the two men met privately for over an hour in Chicago last week and are in daily telephone contact.

The former president apparently advised Mr Davis to play the sober politician to Schwarzenegger's brash "Governator" showbusiness star. "Davis and Clinton are friends and Bill is giving him all the help that he can," one prominent California Democrat told The Telegraph.

A second senior Democrat confirmed: "Clinton has been out there a couple of times and is managing the whole deal by phone. If Davis survives, he'll owe it to the Clintons. Then, if Hillary jumps into the presidential race, she'll have the California delegates locked up as well as the ones in New York."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Brains vs. Brawn

couldn't be simpler than that.

[Ferretherder]

2. Who is this 'second' senior Democrat who is saying...

...stupid shit like - "Then, if Hillary jumps into the presidential race, she'll have the California delegates locked up as well as the ones in New York."

Hey, don't get me wrong here, I would vote for the woman in a heartbeat - that's not the point. Why is this 'senior Democrat' feeling compeled to ADD some absurd BS about Hillary 'jumping in' to the presidential race to muddy the waters and add fuel for the fires on Monday's right-wing radio hate fests, nationwide.

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Seems an inappropriate tag onto the info, IMO.

[AP]

5. Felt the same way when I read that. Bill isn't doing this for Hillary

He's doing it for democracy, the Democratic Party, and the working and middle class people of California and America. Hillary, I guarantee you, won't be running for President in 2004 or 2008. It's so bitchy to make it sound like Bill is doing this for selfish reasons.

[leesa]

18. This is Repub propaganda...bring up the Clintons no matter how absurd

Bring up the 'Clinton conspiracies' to fuel that irrational hatred they have crafted in the American mind towards the Clintons...I would guess the 'senior Democrat', if this person exists, is one of the DINO herd.

[aquart]

33. I don't think ANY Democrat would suggest Hillary enter the race.

Unless it's someone completely out of touch like the DLC.

[blm]

34. That's Karl Rove type spin.

I highly doubt it was a senior Dem.

[arcos]

3. Why is a Hillary candidacy still a question???

She said NO once. She said NO twice. She has said NO over and over and over again. She is NOT running in 2004. Why is the media so insistant?

:puke:

[Ouabache]

6. The supposed Hillary candidacy is red meat for the wingers

I know a guy who is a winger who absolutely refuses to believe that Hillary won't run...they keep this supposed candidacy going on the right wing in order to keep their fires stoked for all the rightwing bullshit.... that some supposed senior Dem is saying this makes me suspect that this comes from region far from a senior dem ??

Sounds like a NewsMAx headline actually

[Snellius]

4. Bill Clinton is stupid

Bill Clinton is enormously overrated as a political strategist. He was the brains behind the 2002 debacle and the DLC timidity in confronting Bush. Even Dick Morris gave him good advice to come clean and what did he do? He didn't take it. Davis should do precisely what Clinton was too vain to do: Make a full-out mea culpa, openly admit his mistakes and shortcomings, then emphasize what he is doing to solve the current fiscal crisis and vow to be a new man. There is no way he can win if he can't understand and appreciate why everyone hates him so much. Corny but it will work.

[AP]

7. In All Too Human, Stephanopolous says Dick Morris told him to lie

about Lewinsky.

Clinton won two elections which should have been impossible for a Demoocrat to win. He helped Hillary get elected too. He was the longest serving governor in America in 1992. He's a seriously good politician. Probably the second best alive today.

Davis is no more to blame than any governor, and to give mea culpa would make it seem like he was worse. Enron and the Republicans who pushed through energy deregulation are the ones who should be making the mea culpas, yet they're the ones acting like they deserve to run the show after screwing it up.

[Snellius]

9. You obviously haven't been to California lately

Everybody there detests Gray Davis. He is not liked and if you're there for a while you know why. I mean really detests him. I don't think it's fair but it's a fact. California's problems may not be his fault but Gray Davis just can't play this Clinton act that "I'm governor, doing gubernatorial things, and they're not, and expect Californians to suddenly support him. People want to send a strong message. Their anger can be turned against Bush as much as Davis. Public perception has to be taken seriously. Davis should be fighting back without going negative. Which Clinton didn't do. That shows strength. Clinton during his impeachment showed timidity.

Clinton has been playing the self-serving role of a political victim too long. I wouldn't consider his success in Arkansas as completely exemplary and, while he temporarily saved the party in 1992, he also played a big part in its current and utter collapse. What, for example, did he do about the Florida voting fraud when he had a chance? Nothing.

As to the role of Hillary. She's more than responsible for her own success and more than a little responsible for his. Interesting how we always give credit for her success to him and ignore the role she played helping him.

[Cha]

13. Interesting!

[shanti]

21. good grief, everybody in cali does NOT "detest" gray

please. i live here too and although i don't really care for him, detest is a rather strong word.

wait a minute....i looked at your profile and you don't even live here! *shaking my head*

[Snellius]

22. I'm still a Californian. A lot more than Arnold or most others there.

Grew up in Sacramento. Graduate Berkeley and Davis. Lived in SF, LA, even Walnut Grove. Family pre-Gold Rush. Lived there 50 years. All my relatives still live in California and I go back about a month each year. Whatever that gotcha has got to do with it. Sometimes, as with the energy crisis, even Californians seem to be the last to know what's going on in their own state. I don't know many Californians from California for that matter.

Yes, not everyone "detests" Davis. Let's say he has no friends. And it seems ludicrous to me, as with Clinton, that he fails to confront why there is so much animosity toward him other than blaming everything on persecution by a rightwing conspiracy. Not to say it doesn't exist. But that's also not to say he should be blind to his own fault of vanity that his enemies obviously see they can easily exploit.

California was once, and still is, one of the most wonderful places on the face of the earth. I hate to see paradise so ruthlessly ruined.

[SoCalDem]

24. Lots of people here don't even know who Davis IS..

:eyes:

They will be hearing stuff on the radio and tv and then will decide what road we travel..:(



Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and people will see that Conan the Californian is NOT the best choice for governor..:)

Of course the wink-wink-nudge-nudge campaign will bubble just under the surface..

IF Ahhnold gets in, the taps will flow honey and gold from DC, and he will be made out to be the Salvationator.. No doubt , he would be a front man for Brulte or even more nefarious types, but he will be the oone to take the credit for "Saving Pvt. Sacramento".. If THAT happens, we are stuck with him for a LONG time :(

[okieinpain]

32. oh so true, if he or any repugs get's in the money flood gates

will be turned wide open. gas prices, will drop only in cali, brown outs you say, what's a brown out. ohhhh no, it will be dollars from heaven if a repug is elected in cali.

[neuvocat]

26. You obviously don't know any better since you don't live here.

Were you taking some sort of a scientiffic survey? Did you only ask people if they detest Davis? Sounds like that's all you've done. People are frustrated with the overall situation and want things to improve quickly, not necessarily throw Davis out. 1.6 million signatures vs. the entire state of California.

Next time keep up on current events. If you can't do that, then at least read your history.

[Snellius]

27. Who likes Gray Davis?

I heard Jerry Brown today on the talk shows. He actually said he would consider voting for Schwarzenegger. I heard Diane Feinstein. She said the recall was wrong but, after being compared by Davis to Leona Helmsly, she sure didn't have much good to say about him. Even Torres hasn't said anything that was very reassuring and he's the main spokesman for the Democratic Party.

Yes, it's not really Davis's fault. But even during the "Gray-outs", during the great energy ripoff, Californians still seemed more bent on blaming Davis, who to his credit put up a ferocious attack on FERC, Enron, and Bush/Cheney, Californians still seemed to blame everything on him.

Maybe someone like him. I guess you do. I don't dislike him. He's better than Pataki out here. But I haven't met anyone.

(Since only resident Californians seem to be able to contribute here. I lived in California over fifty years and still feel I am more a native (or is it "naive") Californian than most of those not born and raised there.)

[PROGRESSIVE1]

36. Jerry Brown...

is a JACKASS!!! I don't know how the hell he got elected in the first place!

[Cronus Protagonist]

31. Puhlease!

Everybody herer does not detest Gray Davis. California has voted him in twice as governor. Not only that, if you really go for a walk on the street and ask people who the governor is, most people won't even be able to tell you. And if you ask them who Gray Davis is, they'll most likely say, "who?".

The only people here that I've ever found to dislike or hate Gray Davis are the capitol press - particularly the Sacramento Bee. Sorry, but the idea that most people detest him is a meme. Most people are completely ambivalent about him and everyone, everyone, I know knows that it was ENRON that bankrupted us and PETE WILSON that set us up.

He doesn't have much support, that much is true, but not because people hate him, more like because most people here don't follow politics.


FUck Bush Buttons — The Cronus Connection

[aquart]

35. I have never once seen Bill Clinton play "victim."

The message the Californians I know want to send is that they don't like hijackers or people with money stealing elections or trying to set aside the will of the people.

The message is Don't Tread on Me. And they know who's wearing the hobnailed boots.

[Snellius]

38. That subject would make an interesting discussion

I actually think that Clinton plays the victim a lot. And let's others, especially his wife, play it for him. This notion of a "vast rightwing conspiracy", for example, that he seems to share with Hillary, is rooted in victim thinking. Of course, there's a vast rightwing conspiracy. There's always been a vast rightwing conspiracy. There's a vast leftwing conspiracy. It's Chinatown, Jake. It's politics. What did he expect? A man with his reputation going into it should have particularly known he was open season.

What lost a lot of people with Clinton was not anything he did but the cowardly way he faced up to it. You tell people it's none of their business.

Admiring the greatness of Bill Clinton and what he did to get where he is should not blind us to his serious faults and the problems he has created for many people who put so much faith in him.

[oustemnow]

40. I'll thank you not to speak for me

Sincerely,

A California DUer who doesn't "really detest" Gray Davis.

Yegads, you really have a way with understatement with your "Clinton is stupid" and "everybody detests Gray Davis" proclamations.

[aquart]

10. Bill Clinton survived 8 years of crucifixion and an impeachment.

A deliberate attempt to subvert Democratic government.

I'm not really allowed to say what kind of person would believe that admitting to anything would have made that all go away.

Because THEY said it would? Oh, honey, THEY lied. It's a pattern of theirs. You might want to pay attention to it.

[Snellius]

11. This victim defense only shows another sign of weakness

I'm personally sick of hearing about those mean, nasty Republicans who crucified our lord. Feeling sorry for oneself is not the way to fight back. It's part of the reason they got as far as they did and why Democrats didn't see the lessons that the impeachment and Florida shoved in their face. The recall of Davis should be turned into a attack on Bush.

[Blue_Roses]

28. Stupid? I think youput the label

of stupid on the wrong person. Dick back-stabbing--hate-Clinton-Morris--now there's a guy who rightly deserves the label stupid.

[rocktivity]

8. The voters will save the Dem's skin

If they learn within the next sixty days that this recall is nothing short of another right wing coup. I mean, how serious can they be about saving California if their front runner is musclebrained movie star? Do they want to elect a leader or a figurehead?


rocknation

[MrsMatt]

15. Yes, those of us in Minnesota

have been there. Remember Jesse Ventura? He was partly responsible for helping take Minnesota's economy from black to red.

[DemonFighterLives]

12. Advice was good

Best to stay out of the fracas. It did not go far enough. Most people do not know that it was Kenny and Cheney and Bush who were complicit in destroying CA's economy. Davis needs to blast the news out there. The rest of the 150 candidates will fall to the wayside, I hope. Such a shame that Issa bowed out after spending all his dough< sarcasm.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. All good points

and that's KENNY BOY (not to be confused with Kerry)

[Unknown Known]

16. I agree with Snellius

I'm sick and tired of Dems acting like victims. They remind me of the battered wife. Get the hell up and fight even if it means you might die doing it. It's better than living like a scared rabbit!

This is one reason I'm pissed at Davis - he should have been all over the place screaming about what the Texas oil/energy companies were doing in California to create the energy crisis. You barely heard a wimper out of him - even in CA (I was there at the time).

Now the average ignoramus Californian knows nothing about what the bushistas did to their state.

But Davis is typical of this Dem attitude of having to play by the rules crap - screw the rules. There are no more rules!!!:nuke:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. Did you pick up a newspaper 'round that time?

Davis and his administration WERE out there saying that there was manipulation of the market going on. There was a lawsuit started that opened the floodgates on Enron's role in the energy "crisis" and led to a look at their bookkeeping practices.

[Snellius]

23. That's true. Davis was onto Enron when no one would listen.

To his credit, I remember his comment about "I would love to personally escort Lay to an 8 by 10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey.'"

What was a shame was that it seemed even then that most Californians were still blaming him for the power crisis and not the real crooks in the White House. Davis problem is still one of character. Not bad character but no character.

[nbsmom]

29. Wrong guy, but good memory

Davis didn't say that, although it was an elected California official, our CA attorney Bill Lockyer.

Davis however has been behind the suits brought against FERC and the energy cos. involved in the manufactured 'crisis.'

[Snellius]

37. Another telling quote:

"For three months Gray Davis did a very good job of blaming us," Enron spokesman Mark Palmer told the Texas Monthly after California prices dropped. "We were a Texas company. There was a Texan in the White House. California was a state that didn't put him in office, and his biggest contributor was a Texas energy company … the truth will take care of Gray Davis."

But with Enron memos coming to light this month that, critics charge, clearly document price-fixing schemes in California, the truth may well favor Enron's critics. Looking ahead to November, says Jillson, "I think Davis is in good shape on the energy issue. There is a smoking gun."

On the other hand, Republicans seem to have been untouched by Enron fallout. An ABCNEWS.com poll in February showed that 70 percent of Americans are no less likely to support a candidate who received a campaign contribution from Enron in the mid-term election.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/californiatexas020520.html

I knew that someone else first used the "Spike" line but I vaguely remember Davis using it too but can't find a reference.

[Sideways]

20. Battered Wives Are VICTIMS

Your analogy is off the mark. If you think the Dems are unfairly portraying themselves as victims fine but don't throw legitimate victims into the discussion to bolster your argument.

It is disingenuous and cruel. Obviously you have not been battered and leaving is much easier said than done. BTW people who are battered don't live their lives like scared rabbits; they live their lives like frightened and abused human beings, and the threat of death is always there whether they fight back or not, often the threat of death is greater IF they fight back.

Just a thought. Maybe in the future you will be just a tad more sensitive.

[Wonder]

17. avoid the electoral recall

as much as I believe davis is a crook who fucked with the states utilities and made some of his own money on that Enron scam... if they split the democratic ticket... Arnold is libel to take the state... and in the grand scheme that would be worse... especially if this admin is planning on stealing the next presidential election again...

more proof that they are all in the pigsty together... davis is not a cut above. How convenient this turn of events would make davis redeemable... sickening really.

[w4rma]

25. I think voters need to know about Arnold's sexual harrassment and lechary

Arnold the Barbarian
By John Connolly in Premier Magazine
March 2001

Once, he was a box office terminator. But now that Arnold Schwarzenegger has lost some of his muscle in Hollywood, stories of his boorish behavior can no longer be routinely erased. Then again, he'd make a helluva politician. The tabloid press got a nice Christmas present late last year when Arnold Schwarzenegger tore through a day of publicity work in London, promoting his latest film, The 6th Day, which had just opened there. In less than 24 hours, the star was said to have attempted to, as high school boys used to say, cop a little feel from three different female talk-show hosts. The level of consternation expressed by those who received this hands-on treatment from the hulking, Austrian-born international superstar ranged from none whatsoever (Denise Van Outen of The Big Breakfast invites her guests to lie on a bed with her and, hence, probably has a rather elastic definition of what constitutes inappropriate behavior) to irked (on tape, Celebrity interviewer Melanie Sykes looks a little thrown off after Arnold gives her a very definite squeeze on the rib cage, directly under her right breast) to, finally, righteously indignant. Anna Richardson of Big Screen claims that after the cameras stopped rolling for her interview segment, Schwarzenegger, apparently attempting to ascertain whether Richardson’s breasts were real, tweaked her nipple and then laughed at her objections. “I left the room quite shaken,” she says. “What was more upsetting was that his people rushed to protect him and scapegoated me, and not one person came to apologize afterward.”
...
http://www.health-and-medical.com/health/man_health_magazine/man_health_magazine_msg42682/man_health_magazine_msg42682.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=15052&mesg_id=15052

[LynneSin]

30. That would be great except: HILLARY ISN"T RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT

Geez, why do people assume that she is. She says she's not running and she knows better because she would alienate the voters of New York who she promised to serve as a senator and not use them as a stepping stone to the white house.


Hillary could easily run for president, but she'd turn over New York's Votes to the republican party, ESPECIALLY if she does it in 2004.

[JackSwift]

39. I can tell you as a delegate in the

2000 convention, I was pledged to vote for Gore on the first ballot. I would have been breaking the law to have switched to someone else. I don't remember if we were free on the second ballot or when, but I sure as hell would never look to Gray Davis for who to support on a later ballot. And most party activists feel the same way. When Davis actually showed up at DNC 2000, as governor he was entitled to sit at the head of our delegation and "lead" it. But it was the closest he had had ever been to the party activists who had elected him, and the resentment buzzed through the delegation. This is a guy who refused to meet with county party chairs (or at least me and a neighboring county chair in two of the top 5 dem registered counties) early in his first term. The concept that this guy could lead delegates to vote a certain way is truly low comedy. I'll vote against the recall because it is a vote against more Republican treachery and treasury robbing. But Davis? Yuck.