G.O.P. Seeking Congregations for Bush Effort

[kskiska]

The Bush campaign is seeking to enlist thousands of religious congregations around the country in distributing campaign information and registering voters, according to an e-mail message sent to many members of the clergy and others in Pennsylvania.

Liberal groups charged that the effort invited violations of the separation of church and state and jeopardized the tax-exempt status of churches that cooperated. Some socially conservative church leaders also said they would advise pastors against participating in such a partisan effort. But Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for the Bush administration, said "people of faith have as much right to participate in the political process as any other community" and that the e-mail message was about "building the most sophisticated grass-roots presidential campaign in the country's history."

In the message, dated early Tuesday afternoon, Luke Bernstein, coalitions coordinator for the Bush campaign in Pennsylvania, wrote: "The Bush-Cheney '04 national headquarters in Virginia has asked us to identify 1,600 `Friendly Congregations' in Pennsylvania where voters friendly to President Bush might gather on a regular basis."

In each targeted "place of worship," Mr. Bernstein continued, without mentioning a specific religion or denomination, "we'd like to identify a volunteer who can help distribute general information to other supporters." He explained: "We plan to undertake activities such as distributing general information/updates or voter registration materials in a place accessible to the congregation."

more…
http://nytimes.com/2004/06/03/politics/campaign/03CHUR.html?hp

[Delarage]

1. If my church ever tried to get me to vote for Bush

I would create such a stink that it would go down in the annals of church history. Furthermore, if anyone at my church tried to get people to register Repuke to help Bush, I would immediately begin an independent effort to register Democrats.

This makes me :puke:


What makes these people think that religious people all support someone as blatantly immoral and perhaps evil as Bush? :puke:

[Eye and Monkey]

6. I see this as splitting more congregations, dividing more neighbors.

Blowback can be a bitch. As if Junior cares.

[Momof1]

2. Could you post this in Pennsylvania state forum

This is something that won't be lost over there. That way we might be able to do something about it.

Or would you like me to do it?

Thanks for posting this.

[leesa]

3. Exactly how wicked is the Fundie "Christian" movement??

It is quite painfully obvious that Bush and his henchmen are pure evil and they will still support them?

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. I don't know if I'd call them wicked, per se...

though, I have to admit, I constantly call them evil...

The leadership is wicked and doing the devil's work, as far as I am concerned; the rank and file, while I can criticize them for leaving their brains at the narthex when they enter houses of worship, are simply being duped and misled and taken down a very, very wrong path.

I think it is important to remember the difference, and the level of culpability, between the leadership and the members.

[Khephra]

19. True, but the "membership" is also able to commit horrible crimes

on its own, under the guise of "just following orders", as we've seen with the Iraqi torture situation...and Nazi crimes before that.

The membership may be dupes, but they're capable of being as evil, if not more evil, than the leadership--simply because they can remove choice/freewill from being a motivator on their actions. If one is following orders, then one can step outside of their 'self' and do the most inhumane things.

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. I would disagree slightly on that

You are right - and I said it in my post as well - that the membership is also to be blamed, at elast somewhat.

However, I don't see them in the same situation as our Abu Ghraib or Nazi "Just following orders", because I don't see them as believing they are following orders. They see themselves as truly doing what is right and just - as doing God's will. So that, if we were to nail them in their "crime", as we nailed the nazis and abu ghraib, etc., I don't think they'd offer the defense of "following orders" because I don't think they'd ever realize they've done anything that needs defending - they would likely not even realize or know why they are under scrutiny - because they're doing what God wants.

So, I don't know - maybe that's more evil than just being a military person "following orders". It's certainly far more psychotic, since there is no self-reflection. Pure moral certainty is perhaps as much of a psychotic behavior as the guy who's brain can't tell right from wrong and tortures dogs or children. And, mayhaps, it's more evil to claim that God is on your side than to be a mere Nazi soldier following orders.

:shrug:

Now you've made me think, Khephra.

[Judi Lynn]

28. You've expressed something I've been groping for terms to explain

If one is following orders, then one can step outside of their 'self' and do the most inhumane things.

It couldn't seem clearer, but being able to articulate it is another matter.

Each level of engagement is allowed complete escape from the ultimate responsibility. The ones giving the orders are completely distanced from the ones carry them out. Hell, NO ONE's responsible. It's just the tough luck of people they capture to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If they were good enough, they'd have been like us, apparently.

[FlemingsGhost]

4. Why vote at all? The rapture is coming, right?

They're going to build "the most sophisticated grass-roots presidential campaign in the country's history," in five months?

They better start praying...

[rustydog]

5. If you thought the Viacom merger was something...

Wait until you see Church & State hook up with Bush!

[Piperay]

8. I don't understand WHY the

Democrats have not called for a massive voter registration drive, not in churches but in Democratic areas with large numbers of unregistered voters. If the Democrats get beaten because the repukes are registering people out of churches it will be their own damned fault for not fighting fire with fire. :argh:

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. I told you, I told you, I told you!

It was just a matter of time before congregations hammered up signs at the entrance of their churches, "Democrats need not apply."

That's why I homeschool church to my children. Too many bad influences out there.

[Malva Zebrina]

10. Robertson has been doing this for years

with his voter score cards that are distributed in the church.

..a spokesman for the Bush administration, said "people of faith have as much right to participate in the political process as any other community"

straw man--of course they do, but not under the umbrella, or direction of a church. And if that church wants to turn into a political arm for some candidate, then they do NOT get to get tax exempt states. Let people of faith functioning as a community pay the taxes.

[Norquist Nemesis]

18. Excellent!

Because "people of faith" have the exact same opportunities to participate in the political process as every American citizen. The fact they choose to go to church doesn't preclude them from participating.

[LeftHander]

11. If churches like UU, UCC, Presbyterians, Methodists.....

Actively participate in promoting a particular candidate under the umbrella of a church watch how fast they lose tax exempt status.

GOP jackass hippocrites...

[noonwitch]

15. In Detroit, Dem candidates campaign in churches

Before the election, I'm sure that Kerry will make the rounds with Gov. Granholm and John Conyers. I don't have a problem with it (especially since my church is sometimes one they go to), but it's no different in an ethical sense than the Christian Coalition's tactics.
They usually go to Hartford Memorial Baptist Church and Greater Grace Cathedral, both huge churches in the city (Gore did in 2000). Sometimes they also go to Metropolitan UMC (a liberal methodist church), Plymouth UCC and Renaissance Unity in Warren (my church).

[Khephra]

20. There's a difference in my mind though

Any person, even a politician, is entitled to speak in a House of Worship, be it during campaign season or not. Worshipers can leave or not, depending on the views.

BUT...

A H.o.W. being organized to support one candidate over others is a different thing. It's turning a tax-empt organization into a political organization.

[dusty64]

12. The line in the sand in their

effort toward extreme right theocracy has been drawn. Either these "churches" get exposed as the rightwing political arms of the rnc and start following election rules and paying taxes or we are headed toward American Taliban reign in this Country. Between this and their forcing taxpayers to fund these organizations through their "faith based" bullshit, they are NO longer hiding their intentions. What are we and the opposition going to do about it?

[dawg]

13. This guy that I really admire ...

He was a really peaceful type of guy, but one day he found out these guys were using a church for purposes other than worship (making money off of the churchgoers, I think), and he went all ballistic and turned over their tables and ran them out. I think that applies to this situation as well.

[AZCat]

14. He musta been some sort of long-haired hippy...

I hope somebody called the authorities on him, because we can't have that kind of rabble-rouser running around! Maybe they could make an example of him.

Instead, people should be paying attention to good people like THIS. Now there's a set of principles a Bushie can sink his teeth into!

[pfitz59]

27. Darn those hippies.....

Can't let them get in the way of EMPIRE! Them Middle Eastern TERRAISTs is all alike! Swarthy fish eater!

[Tippy]

16. They started this back in March....

SNIP: With a goal of registering 1 million new voters in all 50 states from March 6 - March 13, National Voter Registration Week is part of the RNC’s unprecedented commitment to registering 3 million voters by Election Day 2004. Thousands of Republican volunteers have been hosting voter registration drives in their local communities at public events, college campuses, ethnic festivals, churches, malls, grocery stores and by go door-to-door and phoning unregistered voters. The events will continue as volunteers work vigorously to register 1 million new voters by March 13. Following is a sample of events happening across the nation:

< http://www.gop.com/news/read.aspx?ID=3989 >

I went in to the Elections office to pick up some registration forms and was told someone had brought in a stak of cards about a foot high this was in early May.....

[derby378]

17. Try watching FRONTLINE's "The Jesus Factor"

Bush 43 doesn't know much, but he knows how to organize evangelicals and fundamentalists.

Wouldn't it be great to see the IRS seize some of these churches if they're caught breaking the law?


Want to buy this sticker? Send me a private message?

[Nashyra]

21. I am a deputized registrar in Douglas county

we are very active in registering voters. I don't attend church but I guarantee I will be hitting the churches to hear what is goin on and I will file complaints if I hear the sermon "going political" It would kill my chances of winning the seat on school board but so be it, this is more important.

[Piperay]

26. "Try" is right

it takes a strong stomach to make it through the whole show. I only made it about half way before I had to change the channel, it was really nausiating to watch chimp and his "pious" supporters. :puke:

[TrogL]

22. Any church that does so should be reported to the IRS

so they can have their tax-free status revoked.

[Solly Mack]

24. If they want to campaign from the pulpit then it's no longer a pulpit

seems the offering plate has become a legislative hopper.

[CBHagman]

25. And now it's time for the nice gentleman or lady from the IRS...

...to pay these congregations a visit. :evilgrin:

Adieu, tax-exempt status!

[drfemoe]

29. They're trying to destroy

religion and faith. It just dawned on me. They *appear* to be building bridges to this section of the 'base'.. but it's an illusion. How could this administration produce anything else? The fundies who think they are calling the shots are in for a rude awakening.

Related >>
Bush Focusing on Faith-Based Initiatives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x594388#594753

Faith-Based Executive Order
Executive Order Responsibilities of the Departments of Commerce and Veterans Affairs and the Small Business Administration with Respect to Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
http://tinyurl.com/36xt5 << link to WH